1 John Chapter 3 Discussion Page 2

That was very interesting to read Xaviar. From where did you learn about this other race of people? I can't find anything about them in the Bible. And you say, "However, before the disobedience (Sin), both creation experience God: even and Edam saw God face to face while the other creation fell and experience God in strange ways."

If the 'other creation fell' (into sin?) how did they fall? If Satan came to them also, as he did to Adam & Eve, then did God not bother with them - or does that mean that this other creation wasn't important to Him as Adam was? Maybe they were more animal than human, & if this so, then we know that animals don't have the ability to sin.

Or, if Satan didn't approach them, then they must be sinless as sin can only come from Satan or transmitted through the Adamic bloodline - so we must have some sinless descendants from this 'other creation' still walking around in this world. You also wrote that "evil begin to spread to them as well". How then can it spread?

So many questions I have for you, that I can't find answers to in the Bible. I await your reply expectantly.

The flood covered the whole world. Come to my place and I will take you up on a high mountain and we will dug some soil up and we will find seashells. You probably can do it where you live. Go to the highest point that you can find and dig a little and you will also find seashells.

Dear;

The change that took place in Eden affected everyone. Otherwise, both creations lived same but Eve and Edam lived in a world that is protected by God and everything was free and ready for them to eat. Those that lived outside of the garden had to look for food like hunters and gathers just like animals. When Even and Edam forced out to the world, they too now have to look for food like hunter and gathers. After some times, both creations begin to settle.

However, before the disobedience (Sin), both creation experience God: even and Edam saw God face to face while the other creation fell and experience God in strange ways. They could also interact with angles. As soon as the disobedience begin, heaven separated from earth which is where Eve and Edam became part of the second world.

The separation was also experienced by the bigger world as soon as eve and edam sinned. They could feel that heaven separated from them and went away. They could no longer experience God in full presence and hey could not see the angles again.

The bigger world did not know at all what is sin about. However, evil begin to spread to them as well and wars begin over land between the tribes and clans. But Eve and Edam begin to communicated with God through to their generations. They begin to inter-marriage with the first set of creation and teach them about God and God's laws. This is where the first set of creation learn about God.

In place where inter-marriage was not possible between God's people and the other people, may still live the same life. Some people in Amazon and some people in Pacific especially Papua New Guinea (PNG) are classic examples.

Missionaries clearly experience the difference between the first set of creation in those areas (Amazon and PNG). They still lived a primitive life interacting with nature-they are not advanced like the Israelites.

The flood took place only in Israel to punish those that bound to follow the law and word of God, rest was not affected.

Dear;

There are some mistake from the beginning of the message posted where it needs careful look.

This is where the mistake is "though God refers to & expands on only"

This could also be another mistake " His second creation of Adam & Eve & their descendants through Noah, to us."

The term "US" or "through to US" require a lot of explanation. Bringing yourself to them.

You need to find out more about Noah's flood. Is it only in Israel or covers entire world?

Is a divorced woman allowed to remarry or when is she allowed to remarry?

Iam a Baptist's and I believe in the Bible I had a house fire last month and now I don't have one I miss my reading of the night could you send me a King James Version

Thank you Fred. I am indeed the firstborn, but don't know how that might be appropriate here. I do tend to be 'wordy', as through the years of sharing in Bible studies, one of the failures of adequate teaching has been receiving matter with little substance & studies without adequate background & explanation. Even in my 'short' responses here, I sometimes feel that I've not given the enquirer sufficient information on which to consider & form an opinion - but that's just me I guess. Thank you too for your valuable comments - I always look forward to hearing from you.

Simon, please excuse the insertion of " Song of Solomon 3:14": it must have come in as a result of the Site's Checker. I intended the Scripture from 1st John, chapter 3, verse 14.

Chris ,are you the first born, in your family ? You are blessed with the knowledge of Christ! Speak the truth without a lot of words! you are a pillar!

This whole chapter is on God's Love for us & its implication & application for us. As John states in verse 1, that God's incomprehensible Love brought us into the family of God. And because of our special relationship to Him, we look longingly to Him awaiting the day of Jesus' Return. As well, John says, that love we have for God, that which compels us to live for Him & not live in sin, is also the love we need to have for one another.

And this love must be genuine, looking to another's needs, even to the laying down our lives for another. And so 3:14, comes as a challenge to our hearts: we think that the love we have for God because of His Love for us is clear proof for our entrance to Heaven. Whereas we ought to consider that if that love for God is real, then that love has to be shown to one another, for therein is the final proof that this is indeed the love that God looks for: the real love for God that is in us, that is demonstrated to another as well. When this is apparent, then our release from eternal death to eternal life is proven. A lot like Faith & Works: Faith does indeed save us, but if there's no proof of that faith (by works), is that faith genuine?

For if we love not our brother then our love is not genuine towards God & we need to be examining what has taken place in our hearts that has caused this spiritual & mental anomaly. As John said in 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth (despises, disregards or holds in lower esteem) his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" This comes as a great challenge to all of us - particularly that we don't harden our hearts when there are those in the Church & around us in such great need.

What is the meaning of this verse? Why was it written here? What is the application for us?

Doing wrong is going against what man say or constitute is right but sin is going against what God say. That's why the Bible say "For the wages of sin is death" that means all sin, but it does not say for the wages of doing wrong is death because some wrong doing will lead to death

Hi Robert,

All sin is wrong. All wrong, or at least, most 'wrong' I can think of is also sin. So, I think these are practically synonymous in my view.

Some pick their own list of what they consider 'wrong' so this list may not line up exactly with another person's list.

But God's examples of sin should be universal and absolute.

what is the different between doing wrong and sin

Paula Roberts, Acts20:7 is the earliest pattern of meeting to break bread, the first day of the week, long before there was a vatican. An individual can worship God at any time, but the body of believers, gathered together, should follow the pattern established by the apostles and early disciples, seen here in scripture.

If you are influenced by Adventist teaching, it may be justification by works that is causing the pushback. Following the Bible is not the way to heaven, knowing Christ has paid for all your sins is the only way. If you ever think you can be good enough, that's wrong.

The Sabbath/rest for Christians is throughly discussed by Paul in Hebrews 3&4. In particular, Heb.4:11, that is, a rest from our efforts to obtain salvation by our own works. What are you going to offer to God, that would add to the work of his son on the cross??? To offer anything is to diminish his ability to save you by his grace.

Israel/the world, was under the law(a schoolmaster Galatians 3:24 & 25) to bring them to Christ. The Church is by grace. Romans 6 There are many so called churches that confuse the distinctions between Israel and the Church, Adventists being only one.

ALL the work of salvation was done by Christ. You are saved, if you believe/trust him alone. 1Cor.15:3&4, Romans 10:9,10,11

doesnt it say somwhere in the bible that we should gather and praise amd worship God? like church.

Hello again Claire, thank you for your Bible references:

Genesis 4:1 Take note of who is saying "I have gotten a man from the Lord". It is Eve, the one who had already been beguiled by the serpent, so we know she was capable of getting things wrong. In one sense, she was correct; in that all life comes from the Lord as creator of heaven and earth and He created life with a reproductive seed principle. She does not state who is the father, merely that she has gotten a man. Note also that Adam did not "know" Eve a second time before Eve gave birth to Able. Twins in the womb from different fathers is what is being recorded here. A biological event that has since been proven to be possible. Note also why Adam called the woman Eve: it was because she was the mother of all living. Nowhere does the Bible say that Adam was the father of all living. In fact, much scripture indicates that Adam was not.

Sorry, I don't understand the reasons for quoting 1 Corinthians 14:33 and 2 Timothy 3:16 in this particular context.

The reasons for 1John 3:12 are all there in Genesis

Hello Claire

Thank you for your reply and I appreciate your comments. I guess we take a different view over what is biblical and what is not... and that's ok, so long as we earnestly contend for THE FAITH that was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3.

The fact that there are children of God and children of the devil is clear wherever I read in the Bible, so that much is Biblical. It's all about predestination: Cain/Able, Jacob/Esau ( Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated) Jesus Christ/Judas Iscariot.

Jesus chose his words carefully in Mat 23:33. He knew precisely to whom he was speaking. Consider also 2Pet2 and Jude 1:10 and think about those brute beasts made to be taken and destroyed. How were they made and why? There are many other examples in the Bible that should prove to the reader the fact of two predestinated groups, one ordained to life, the other, much larger in number, destined for the lake of fire. We have a just and loving God. He is interested only in His own children, the children of the devil have their purpose in time but not in eternity.

Understanding the "mechanics" of how it all came about as part of God's master plan of being a saviour is wonderful to a true child of God. The two "lines" didn't come about by eating apples or any other botanical fruit. No, please read the early chapters of Genesis again... there's more to learn of the truth there.

Hi Roy,

I have heard that story about Satan being Cain's father but it's not biblical.

Genesis 4:1

And [Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain], and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

1 Corinthians 14:33

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

God bless you and your family.

Kind Regards

Claire

Hello Rachat, your line of thinking was spot on correct about Cain's father.

That's a difficult question to answer when applying it to a specific person's life. But my experience tells me that firstly, the one seeking to 'know' God's Will for him/her, must truly be 'in the Will of God'. That is, he/she must be re-born by God's Spirit having been cleansed from past sins by the offering of Christ's Blood on the Cross for him & being made a new creation, in Christ. To fully realize God's Will & to be joyful & at peace about it, whatever it is, can only come through our relationship to God our Father & fully trusting Him for any outcome in our lives.

Personally, I've never sought God's Will for me. I would have liked to know what it would be, the path I should take in life to reach that end and what I should perform to get there. But it's always been my impression that a believer just needs to be found 'in Christ', & having His Spirit in us, guarantees us His keeping of our souls, our teaching, our guidance & our continual refreshment. As we're 'in the way of life' & doing what God has set for us to do, He will lead us & take us further in that walk with Him.

Sometimes, we can have a burden on our hearts to pursue something, whether in the secular or religious world. It would not be wrong to ask God about it & state your desires. Then see whether that burden still remains upon you & observe over time, how events are panning out for you to reach that goal. However, be flexible & responsive, if the Lord should close the door you seek to enter through - He delights in His children obeying His Word & His leading, & not force one's own desires thereby bringing on painful results. God always does what is best for His children, even though we sometimes think otherwise. We can look at Israel who pressed God for a king, just as the other nations had one. God had warned them not to do so, but they insisted & eventually Saul was crowned. God gave into them bringing unfortunate results. You can pick up this story in 1 Samuel chapter 8 onwards.

My question is how to know God's will for your life ? We, sometimes accomplish our own will instead of accomplishing God's will for our life.

What does Michael David mean?

Disappointment comes to all of us as we remain in hope that something we've planned for or what has been told us, fails to materialize. It is an unnerving experience that can render some people quite helpless, but God is there for times such as these.

Romans 12:2 says it this way: "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Even though we generally understand this verse warning the believer not to behave as the unsaved world does & adopt a new way of thinking, it also has implications to the believer not to conform to the world that sets its hope on the finite & material aspects of it, rather than putting faith in the God Who knows & does all things well.

The believer does at times suffer disappointments, but ought to immediately look heavenward & commit himself & those matters to the Lord Who will bring it to pass in His Time, & generally in a manner above what we could have expected or planned for.

Some other Scriptures to reflect upon: Philippians 4:6,7; Romans 8:28; Jeremiah 29:11; Psalm 73:23-26; Psalm 121:1-8; Psalm 42:11; Matthew 6:33; Proverbs 3:5,6; 1 Peter 5:6,7; John 14:27; Hebrews 13:5. And many more, to show us there is comfort & help as we wait upon the Lord with our concerns & disappointments in this life.

Hi Dorinda, what verse are you referring to?

What are the traditions that Paul is talking about

what does the bible speak about the felling of disappointment

Xaviar, thank you for your input. So I understand, that you believe in two creations by God, though God refers to & expands on only His second creation of Adam & Eve & their descendants through Noah, to us.

You asked, "is it necessary for God to reveal himself to them as he did to the Eve and Edam." This then raises other questions in my mind & which requires more deeper thought & so I bring them to you for consideration:

a. Can this God of Love Who created mankind for Himself, then not demonstrate that Love to all of mankind, even to this 'other' creation? If He did show Love to them, would He not declare it in His Word, or should it be kept hidden from us? The Bible speaks of people of many different lands, but to omit this 'other' creation when they may be living on the same Earth as us seems peculiar & worrying.

b. Can we then assume that either this 'other' creation remained sinless or they too sinned & God didn't bother about them? If they were sinless, the Great Flood would not have affected them as the Flood was God's Judgement against wicked people. So they would have continued had descendants & today we have a set of people who might be walking around us who are sinless.

But, if they too sinned as Adam did (i.e. Satan had gone to them also), then why did not God bother to try & redeem them also to Himself, just as Jesus did for us sinners? And if Jesus' Sacrifice did apply to them also, why was this important fact kept hidden from us? And then who would have gone to them to bring them the Gospel? Or, did Jesus have to die twice, for us & them? My questions would go on & on, but I stop here.

There is no evidence to a specific instruction God placed to the people he created, such as He proposed to Eve an Edam about the tree of live. However, it is only evident that only one instruction that the second creation of people supposed to followed is not to Harm Cane by looking at the sign on the forehead he placed. Because they have not been given special treatment, they lived freely out there. God's relationship with people is obvious in the sense that he created them to look after them. God revealed himself to them in a very special way. God created the people with and amongst the animals-similar to the manner God created the animals he crated the second set of human being and he looked after the animals and human being in the similar manner. The question is that, is it necessary for God to reveal himself to them as he did to the Eve and Edam.

The question about the grate flood has series of question attached to it such questions as: does the flood occur in a specific area or the entire world that could affect everything?

Opinion to justify human understanding would be contrary to what God has already designed and placed.

When there are some deviance such as ( Genesis 1, Genesis 2, Genesis 4: 13-14, Genesis 3: 23-24) to justify the two set creation and existence of people and exit out of Garden of Eden to a different sent of environment are words of the Lord in the Bible.