Discuss Acts 2 Page 27

Marie, Romans 9:10? Or, did you mean Romans 10:9?

Do you also have a supporting Scripture that the Gift of Tongues is a 'Heavenly language known only to God'? The Acts 2:4 account of Pentecost Day seems to indicate that the Tongues spoken was not Heavenly but Earthly & Paul's teaching on this in 1 Cor 14 was specifically to show that Tongues was an unknown (unlearned) language to the speaker but may be known to another present or to be used when one gifted with its Interpretation was present. Without an interpretation, the (unlearned) Tongue was not to be used however it could be used in prayer to God only, where "my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful" (v 14). This seems to me that apart from its use in prayer, the Tongue should only be used when someone who understands/interprets it is present.

I would be interested to learn what Scripture you know that can support what you've said.

Mari B.

I differ from you somewhat on your explanation of Acts 2:38. To my understanding you are receiving the Holy Spirit upon the new birth. The birth by water in John 3, is the fleshly birth.( uh oh my water just broke) and then born of the Spirit is the second birth. I believe verse 6 says that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. That is an explanation by Jesus on the new birth. I do believe that you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But also the water baptism is an outward expression of an inward change. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. No where in the gospels does it speak of any baptism that seals your salvation. The Word does say in Acts 4:12 There is salvation in no other, there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Salvation is the gift of God and the shedding of Jesus blood for the remission of our sins. Christ and Christ alone.

Douglas Russell, Please read my comment in here. We must receive Christ by repenting. That means turning away from a wrong way of living & truly living for our Lord Jesus every day of our life. We can not do this on our own. It's why we need the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual birth from above. We must surrender our life unto him. Let go & A!low him to lead our life thru the Holy Spirit. (Holy Ghost & the Holy Spirit are the same). Holy Spirit will lead you to all truth. If we are not lead by the Spirit, we are none of his. Romans 8. Let no man tell you different. Acts 2:38 is the New Testament salvation thru faith, love & obeying the gospel. This is all in the Bible. I learned this bc I was so hungry for God's truth. I still am. He loves everyone but it doesn't mean everyone will be saved. Stay in prayer each day. Ask him for his help. Thank him. Yes give thanksgiving into Christ. We are in the world but we must not love the world. now w the indwelling of God's Spirit, soon you will have the fruits of the Spirit. Peace, love, joy, faith, longsuffering, meekness, kindness. Praise him daily. He loves to be praised & he deserves to be praised & worshiped. God is a Spirit & we must Worship him in Spirit & in truth. This is also biblical. Amen

Jesus spoke in John 3-8 about the water & Spirit & how it is needed to enter into the kingdom of God. After we read the gospels we then go to the book of Acts. We must obey Acts 2:38. It's for everyone. The Bible from Acts & on is for the people that came from the book of Acts; the baptized, Holy Spirit filled,saved people/churches. First obey Acts 2:38 before you can claim Romans 9:10 or any other verse I was water baptized yet I didn't receive the Holy Ghost until nearly 3 yrs later. You will speak in tongues as the sign of receiving the Holy Ghost. It's a heavenly language known into God. Also in Acts 1:8 says you will receive power once the Holy Ghost has come upon you. Its a wonderful journey. We must know our God & obey the gospel. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 kjv is clear on these words. Amen

Hi Michael - I agree totally that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was not just for Jews back then - I meant that those in line to get water baptized by John were (most likely - I wasn't there lol) mainly, if not all, Jews. Once the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as their Messiah (in general - not counting Jesus' Jewish followers) and delivered Him up for crucifixion, He rises and His disciples get Hot on fire spreading the word here, there and everywhere -

and then PAUL really gets the ball rolling and spreads the gospel to the Gentiles:

( Eph. 3:8 Unto ME, who am less than the least of all saints, IS THIS GRACE GIVEN, THAT *I* SHOULD PREACH AMONG the GENTILES the unsearchable riches of Christ)

I just wanted to share my thoughts on water baptism and go no further, but I am so with you about the Comforter coming! and Jesus' disciples being beyond JOY when He arrived!!!

I guess though, I have to say - I believe, in this dispensation of GRACE - that when we are saved - at that moment -

we become "In Christ" -

( 2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore IF ANY MAN BE IN CHRIST, HE IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new)

At the moment we are saved we are IN CHRIST - in other words, we are IMMERSED in HIM - and, as we all know, baptism is about being immersed (Some immerse in water - Jesus immerses/baptized us IN HIM - meaning we are IMMERSED/BAPTIZED at that moment in HIS HOLY SPIRIT -as opposed to His physical body)

So, in a nutshell, I believe we are 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' the moment we are saved - I know for myself, I never needed to speak in tongues to get set on FIRE

I believe 'Tongues' are actual earthly languages - ( Acts 2:6 -because that every man heard them speak in his own lang)

I Cor 13:8-10

whether there be tongues, they shall cease... but when that which is PERFECT (God's Word =The Bible) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (shortening verses because of space)

The Bible IS COME

Acts 10 kjv. Alex comment about water baptism. 3 Times in the New Testament its recorded Jesus said John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. AND FIRE . Jesus knew that all of his disciples had been water baptised but he warns them if i wash thee NOT you will have NO PART WITH ME which speaks volumes of a greater baptism then water. The foot washing was a heart washing satan had entered Judas heart and not his feet, its not our feet that defile us ,its our hearts,but Jesus said he that eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me,but Judas neva assaulted Jesus with his feet,( his heel ) Judas assaulted Jesus with his heart.the scripture said that satan had entered the heart of judas to betray Jesus, Jesus said its the things that enter the heart of a man that DEFILES HIM. ITS not out personal hygiene that defiles its our Spritual hygiene that defiles us.Several of th disciples continued to water baptise after the Cross ( the blood ) But Peter was commanding water baptism, even saying who can forbid water in essence saying the BLOOD was insufficient. thats y the lord was so upset with Peter rebuking him 3 times with that sheet with all the UNCLEAN animals which was the Church that was made clean by the BLOOD of the lamb not water baptism peter was commanding. Paul was the only 1 who saw the error in water baptism saying it wd make the BLOOD OF NO EFFECT BY BAPTISING WITH WATER. God told Peter what i have made CLEAN (by the blood ) donot call common or unclean, Peter was impling that the baptism of the H.G did not made them Clean they still needed water baptism, a slap in the face of God. But after that Peter understood the vision he says Then remembered i the WORDS of our lord John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G and fire, THE Sheet was knit at the 4 corners the blood is knit in the 4 gospels th CROSS etc. Even in the O.T. without the shedding of blood there was no remission of SINS. GBU

Kathleen, you make some good points & they are almost a reflection of my grandfather's view on water baptism, where his opposition to it was so strong, that he forbad any of his children & wife to go through its waters.

And as much as I would agree with you on the 'greater' importance to be baptized with the Holy Spirit (& after all this is the hallmark of the believer, & that which seals & secures him/her eternally), what then do you make of the NT Scriptures that still demonstrate water baptism? Of course, we have Jesus' Own Command to His disciples in Mt 28:19,20 (& I give a few Scriptures relating only to water baptism); Acts 2:38-41; 8:38; 16:33; 19:1-6; 1 Cor 13:13-16. And these were not just Jews only but Gentiles as well. And in any case, once a Jew turns to Christ, Christian baptism is still necessary to demonstrate the act of conversion.

How do you interpret these portions?

The only occasion that I could anticipate that a Christian would not need to be baptized in water would be where there was no one (e.g. an evangelist or personal witness) to share the Gospel with the unbeliever, & that enquiring soul, from the reading of the Word & moving of the Spirit, receives spiritual re-birth. A good example of this are the Apostles, (except Saul who was led to the Lord by Ananias ( Acts 9:1-18)). We never see any testimony or reference by the apostles to their water baptism. Why not? Because they were baptized with the Spirit at Pentecost & were never led to salvation. So, it seems that the one that leads a soul to salvation should ensure (i.e. obeying the command) that water baptism takes place forthwith as a testimony of the great transaction. Sadly, our Churches pay little regard to this clearly defined order & folk are baptized according to their wishes & even decades down the road. There seems little sense to me in doing it this way & may just be a form of 'works' in case "I don't make it to Heaven".

The proper form of baptism is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as Jesus designated in Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

That being said we split hairs on some scripture and I don't think it was in God's will to build a whole religious system on baptism. It is an external command that we be baptized unto his death and symbolic to the world we are Christians...Christ followers. We are not saved by baptism but by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one place in the bible that specifically gives us the purpose for tongues, and that is 1 Corinthians 14:22. Acts Chapter 2 is a perfect example of the proper use of "tongues." Unfortunately, the church today does not conform to the biblical use of speaking in tongues. Many today are in total violation of 1 Cor. 14:22. The tongues that are being taught today are not the tongues of the bible. The verses you have shared make no mention at all about tongues being the evidence that a believer has received the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit.

When a person receives Christ, they receive His Spirit. If we are trusting God's promise to give us His Spirit when we call out to Him to save us, why would we need evidence? Wouldn't seeking for evidence be the same as not trusting God to fulfill His promise to give us His Spirit? If we require evidence of our salvation, then how can we say we have faith? God's promise in Romans 10:13 is that all who call upon Him shall be saved. That is His promise. He gives us His Spirit. Without His Spirit, there is no salvation, and we are given that in Romans 8:9. You mentioned Acts 2:38 which is a great verse to show that those who repent are promised God's Spirit. That is all we are promised to receive. Many people today are being deceived by the teachings on "tongues" which is causing them to doubt their salvation because they are being told that tongues is the evidence of their salvation. There are three point-blank facts about speaking in tongues that the bible gives us.

Number one: It is a known language. Not necessarily known to the person speaking, but it is a human language.

Number two: It is a sign.

Number three: It is to unbelievers, not believers.

I still all believers to experience the infilling of the HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues Tongues are your evidence that God has put His Spirit within you ( Acts 2:4; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:17; Acts 10:44-46; Acts 19:6) I am referring to the outpouring of the HolyGhost that happened in the book of Acts and was prophesied in Joel 2:28. I am not referring to the gift of tongues, one of the nine gifts that Apostle Paul was teaching the Corinthians. I have experienced the infilling of the HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues. The church at Corinth were out of order and Paul wrote them to establish order in the church because they were misusing this particular gift. He taught in I Corinthians not only about tongues but communion, the order of creation, etc. Paul did not forbid them from speaking in tongues,but rather that ye prophesy. Tongues edifies the believer, unless he can interpret so that the church can be edified. Prophesy edifies the body of Christ. I certainly agree with you as it relates to the edifying of the church. I have experienced both in my lifetime. The gifts of the Spirit are in the church today and they operate through people. Paul taught on the correct use of them in the church. No, all are not apostles, nor prophets, nor teachers or workers of miracles. But all can receive the gift of the HolyGhost. The HolyGhost allows believers to operate in the capacity that you are referencing. I do not know what churches you visited where people are out of order. But when God is in control, people will be in order. The initial infilling of the HolyGhost was what I was talking about, not necessarily the gift of tongues. Without the gift of the HolyGhost, you won't be using the utilizing the gift of tongues.

God bless you, my sister. You are so right. Salvation is in Acts 2:38. But it is sad that so many do not receive it. God is still pouring out the Holy Ghost on believers.

I love reading the comments, and have looked back pretty far to comments regarding the Book of Acts.

Salvation message in a nutshell is Acts 2:38. Someone once told me that the disciples got it wrong when they baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. How sad. Sad to are those who refuse baptism and call it a 'work'. 1 Peter 3:21 tells us that... baptism doth now also save us....

Lots of things to cover but for now my last point is using Websters, Collins etc dictionaries cannot be used for Biblical understanding. You need a Strong's concordance to give you the correct meanings.

I pray that you all blessed in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, as you study His precious Word.

Regarding baptism. Matthews 28:19 & 20, Jesus said: ...teach ALL nations, baptizing them ...Also, Mark 16:15 & 16 say: preach the gospel...he that believe and is baptized shall be saved. Baptism come before you are saved. Baptism is essential to salvation. Acts 2:37 & 38. 1 Peter 3:21 ... Baptism saves us. 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17 tells us that "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ... Be blessed!

does Jesus talk on effects of alcohol?

Thank you all so very much

Willie,

Just stand on the scriptures, God will take care of the rest, He will honour Your stand on His Word.

Acts 2:38 KJV

[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Find someone who will baptise you in the name of the Jesus Christ, if you haven't already.

Then you will not be tossed about by every ones opinions.

John 16:13 KJV

[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He will guide you into all truth.

1 John 2:27 KJV

[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

ye need not that any man teach you

There you go Willie, that's God's Word.

Stand on it, He promised it. Praise the Lord.

Faith leads to obedience.

John 15:7 KJV

[7] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

You want Him to settle this doubt, ask Him and believe Him when He said - it shall be done unto you.

Matthew 24:35 KJV

[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

God bless you

Sometimes you need to read a lot of scripture About the Holy Spirit to be CERTAIN about who He is and what He is all about. He is not a tongue.

If you are nervous about who the Holy Spirit is... He already knows you are. He'll wait till you search the scriptures to be settled in your mind, that He is the 3rd person of the Godhead; He is the Spirit of Christ Jesus. Jesus went to the Cross partly so we all who believe on Jesus can receive the Holy Spirit without fears. Knowledge is strength.

If your Bible has a dictionary OR a concordance; look up all those scriptures.

When you ARE SURE you want the Holy Spirit ?? Then hold up your hands and say this out loud: " Holy Spirit I trust you and I want everything that you want me to have". I receive it now by faith. Thank you Jesus!!

Amen! Praise God! So Be It! Hallelujah!

Willie,

The only gift that is promised to those who receive Christ is the gift of the Holy Spirit. He gives us His Spirit. No other gift is promised to us. You had nothing to be embarrassed about. There are some who teach that speaking in tongues is evidence that you have the Holy Spirit. Some will also say that your inability to speak in tongues is because of your "lack of faith." There's a theological term for that. It's called Baloney! There is no such thing as a person who has been born of God's Spirit lacking faith. I have never spoken in tongues but I have no doubt that God's Spirit is working in my life. The tongues that are being taught in the church today are not the tongues of the bible. As far as getting re-baptized (Water), there is nothing saying you can't do that. Water baptism is an outward testimony of an inward change. In other words, you are giving a public testimony that you have received Christ and you are identifying yourself with His death, burial, and resurrection. Water baptism is a physical human expression. Jesus baptizes people with His Spirit. That is the baptism that saves you!

I was baptized at 19, but i have a question that i have struggled with since, as i was in the pool getting ready to be baptized the Pastor said to the people watching lets all pray that the Lord will give rich the gift of speaking in tongues, I was shocked to hear him say that and when i came up from the water i was quite embarrassed because i didn't get the gift. My question is was i still baptized or must i get it again. I am a Christian and the lord has answered many prayers since that day, but i have often wondered

Chris, I understand your argument and definition of Perfection. But we don't get to choose how we define things. Perfection has a definition all its own and it doesn't depend on a person's perspective or sentiment. Christ came to bring perfection. If He came to bring Perfection, it means we never had it.

1 Peter 1:20, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you".

Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain".

Isa 37:26, "Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it; in days of old I planned it. Now I have brought it to pass, that you should crush fortified cities into piles of rubble."

Eph 1:3-5, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will".

2 Timothy 1:9, "He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our own works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal."

1 Peter 1:20, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you".

God Planned and Prepared a Perfect Kingdom for us, before the Foundation of the World. And if He prepared perfection for us, what does it mean but that we never had it. Adam and Eve didn't have it and neither do we. Perfection was not coming until after Christ. It didn't come before Him. Heb 11:40, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." Heb 5:9, "And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation."

Only Christ was made Perfect. Adam and Eve were not.

Chris, If you believe the tree was an actual unique tree, perhaps it wasn't a corrupt tree. You bring up a good point. But why would God tell Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit if there was nothing wrong with it? Keep in mind that if the tree is an actual tree, then its fruit is an actual fruit which imparted knowledge with one single bite. So God protected the Tree of Life, but what does the Bible say happened to the Tree of Knowledge? As an aside, here is another example of allegory. Ps 104:4, Heb 1:7, "Now about the angels He says: "He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire."" So, if that is literal, how long were the Angels there protecting the Tree of Life? And if these trees are no longer there, were they cut down? What happened to them? Did more trees of knowledge grow there?

Your comparison between Adam and God in the Flesh (Jesus) is questionable. Christ came with a Pre-Determined Purpose. Christ is God. Christ was Mature and fully prepared. His response to the devil was, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God." James 1:13, "God is not tempted by evil" and in Acts 2:24, "death had no power to hold him". Jesus was a man. But He was God in the body of a man. Death entered the world through Adam, because Adam was weak. But life came through Jesus, the Tree of Life, the resurrection and the life.

I don't agree with your assumption that God wanted to shield Adam and Eve from Knowledge of Good and Evil, to keep them innocent. Is there a Biblical foundation for that? Additionally, you imply corruption wasn't in existence in the Garden. But didn't God send the most corrupt thing in His creation to the Garden? There were 3 things in the Garden, Man, TKGE, TL. Why was the TKGE there?

I won't debate that God created a flawed universe. He didn't. It deteriorated on its own. But think about what you said, 'I would say it was a part of His Perfect Knowledge & His Whole Plan into Eternity allowed for it."

Hello Irene..yes Acts 2:38 is the New

Testament salvation thru faith & obeying the gospel. How are you doing sis Irene?

That was me in above name Mark B. I just realized that misspelled letter) Be strong in Christ.

Carlos, just to keep my response brief: I fully agree with your interpretation of Acts 2:23, that God foreknew that Christ would be delivered & slain. In fact, I would even say that it was God's Plan since it was part of His complete Redemptive Work. That Esau would serve Jacob, I agree that was God's Plan. That Herod, Pilate & the Gentiles were also part of God's Plan, I concur. Sorry, I can't remember making reference to the '1000 years is as one day'.

So with all that agreement with you (as above), where then is my problem? I think it is essentially in the days of Creation & in the workings of Satan. To restate: Adam & Eve were not created in corruption, rather they were created perfect, had a free will but chose wrongly. Was this in God's Plan? No. Was this in God's Knowledge? Yes. Did their sinning catch God by surprise? No. Did he plan for Satan to be there & entice them? No. Did God know that Satan would do this & succeed? Yes. Did God's future Plan to deal with Satan & corrupted man part of His Plan? Yes. So, what I'm saying here is that God doesn't cause or Plan for people to sin. Why? simply that a Holy God cannot have a part in someone's sin; to sin is the choice of the sinner, not of God. Yet God knew they would sin. Did God cause Satan to test Job's faith in God? No, it was Satan who prompted the test with a caveat from God. Did He cause Satan & the angels who followed him to sin? No, they chose to do so.

So I've given some examples of where we could differ; you could probably give more to learn my response. So, I don't believe He causes anyone to sin because it is in 'His Plan' to do so. Each one is responsible for their own choices. But God knew who would sin, both human & angel alike, & then had His Plan ready for whatever He deemed correct. So, am I saying that a Plan was created after the act? No, God already knows what will happen but not the instigator of a sinful act just to fulfil His Plan. So, I think it is on this point that we differ.

Chris, there are really 3 words. Plan, Purpose and Foreknowledge. Although they are all closely related, let me start with a definition Foreknowledge, although you're probably already familiar with it. I think, and I have adopted the position of the Reformers, because it is the most appropriate. Foreknowledge, as used in the Bible, is more closely associated with 'Pre-Ordination'. Acts 2:23 says God delivered Christ up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God.

Some ascribe it to God's intuition or omniscience. But there are philosophical, theological and historical issues with it. What God knows will be a historical fact or event, He can't change. Why? Because if God knows something, He knows it to be fact. If God 'knows' Christ is going to die on the Cross and something, God Himself changes it, then He was mistaken. What we can say He knew is that Christ was going to be crucified, but He changed it to something else.

Instead, God tells us in Isa 44-48 that He can do things at that moment. So, God knows things about what is going to happen and He tells us about them, not because He is somehow intuitively aware of the Future, but because He planned it that way. That is how He wanted it to happen. Rom 8, Isa 46:10-13.

God doesn't just know beforehand what is going to happen, He makes it happen that way. When God said Esau would serve Jacob, He also said that's the way He intended it. That was His doing, not a natural consequence of events He just happened to be aware of beforehand. The argument is that limiting God to 'Foreknowledge' about the Future, limits Him. Why? Because He could only do what He knows He is going to do, not what He wants to do.

Acts 4:28, They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

That said, the fact that God is Omniscient cannot be denied or diminished. But to argue that 1,000 years is like a day, to support Omniscience, takes the verses out of context Ps 90:4. Reference is to speed of time.

Tongues are the initial evidence that one has received the gift of the HolyGhost. There are nine gifts of the Spirit outlined in I Corinthians 12. Paul wrote to the Corinthians to help things in order; for they were all out of order. The gift of tongues outlined in I Corinthians 12 is part of the nine gifts of the Spirit. Every believer who received the HolyGhost may not have the gift of tongues. While a person will speak in tongues when they receive the HolyGhost according to Acts 2:4 and Acts 2:38, he or she may not have the gift of tongues. I have never witnessed where one speaks in tongues in the congregation and there was no one who could interpret what was said. I understood what you documented from I Corinthians 14. I agree. Again, there are nine gifts: 1) word of wisdom; 2) word of knowledge; 3) gift of faith; 4)gifts of healing; 5)working of miracles; 6) gift of prophecy; 7) discerning of spirits; 8) divers kinds of tongues; and 9) interpretaion of tongues. These gifts are operating in the church today. I have witnessed all nine in operation in the body of Christ. They are in people. Some people may have one gift; while others have multiple gifts. God has set them in the church to edify the body of Christ and bring glory to Him. Tongues are not forbidden in the body of Christ; and all should seek to bring glory to God by edifying the church. Prophesy edifies the church; tongues edify an individual believer. We should all, if do not posess the interpretation( not a translation) of tongues, pray that we may interpret. Again, I have witnessed all nine gifts in operation. You can interpret if you desire that gift from God. Trust me, I know. But we should desire spiritual gifts to bring glory to God and to edify or encourage the fellow believer. Again, God is still fulfilling prophesy ( Joel 2:28). Christians need the leaders of the body of Christ to teach them what is proper and orderly.

Repent: The meaning for those with eyes to see and ears to hear:

Acts 3:19 REPENT Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your SINS sins may be blotted out, (change your mind on SIN)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of SINS sins,

Acts 8:22 REPENT Repent therefore of this thy WICKEDNESS wickedness,

2 Corinthians 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not REPENT repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. ( repent uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness )

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to REPENT repent of her FORNICATION fornication; and she repented not.

(IS FORNICATION A SIN OR A CHANGE OF MIND?)

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit ADULTERY adultery with her into great tribulation, except they REPENT repent of their DEEDS deeds.

Revelation 9:21 Neither REPENTED repented they of their MURDERS murders, nor of their SORCERIES sorceries, nor of their FORNICATION fornication, nor of their THEFTS thefts.

So Chris, with respect to your questions, listed below, I offer what follows.

A. Was Christ in God's initial Plan of creation? Titus 1:2, 2 Tim 1:9, Rom 8:17f, Eph 1:4, 3:10-11, Isa 44-48

B. Did God create man so Christ could come to save him from sin's penalty? Heb 10:5, Gal 3:16, Rom 11:36

C. Why create man? Did God of necessity have to create man? Heb 2, Gal 3:16

D. Does God support evil to accomplish His Plan? Rom 9:22-24

E. And what about Satan? Did God put him in the Garden to tempt man? Genesis 2, Job 1:12, Matt 4:1, Lk 4:2

To A: I don't think anyone can argue that Christ was not in the initial Plan of creation, given Jesus created all things. Titus 1:2 and 2 Tim 1:9 are unequivocal. The Plan of Redemption was drawn up before anything was created. We can legitimately conclude from that, that the coming of Christ in a human body ( Heb 10:5), was intentional. Redemption was not offered in reaction to the Fall. Jesus prayed to the Father to, "glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed". 1 John 5:20, John 1:18.

If all things were created for the sake of Jesus ( Col 1:16), doesn't it seem obvious that Jesus was part of the Plan of Creation? There is no indication in Scripture that Jesus was an afterthought? In these verses, we are told that Christ's incarnation was in the original blueprints, before mankind was created. Acts 2:23 Eph 1:4.

What did Jesus mean when He stated in John 8:58, "Before Abraham existed, I Am"? Keep in mind that it is Jesus speaking. Was He simply saying He is God? Or was He saying He as Savior existed before creation? That is, Christ existed. Not Jehovah existed. Christ existed and He is God. John 1 attests to that. In John 17:24 Jesus says God loved Him before creation. Loved who? God loved God? No. God loved Jesus, the Savior.

Rev 13:8, 17:8 also reveal that prior to the Fall, the names of the saved were written in the Book of Life. What's up with that? Jesus came before the Fall.

Albert, further to what Bob has shared: I believe there is confusion on the meaning of the word 'tongue'. Sadly, it is often interpreted as some special uttering that may or may not be known to us. Hence, as some who have this 'gift' have said to me, that a 'tongue' could be an earthly language or a heavenly language. But is this what the Scripture, indeed all of Scripture on this subject implies?

In such situations, I wish I could altogether remove the word, 'tongue', & just insert 'unknown or unlearned language' as it clearly implies in Scripture, i.e. a language in existence on Earth, but which has not been learned by the utterer. When this gift came upon men showing the arrival & indwelling of the Holy Spirit in people, they always spoke in a language that they had not learned but it was a language that was known by someone else. Thus, the 'tongue' served absolutely no purpose unless it was for the benefit of another (e.g. as evidence to the unsaved & to hear God's message to them, or God's Word to believers, if only it came with interpretation).

And to those dear, well meaning believers so 'gifted', also suggested to me, a non-gifted 'tongue' believer, that if no 'tongue' came out of me, then I should just 'start babbling something to start the process going'! Of course, an extreme, perverted understanding of the Gift, but it showed to me, as a new Christian, the lengths they would go to give such importance to this least of all gifts. The only occasion of when this 'gift' is used other than what I've indicated here, is when there is none to interpret it, that it is used not publicly, but in his/her prayer to God & be edified through it ( 1 Cor 14:28).

The Bible speaks on tongues 1 Corinthians 12:28 - And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (Tongues notice the last least gift.)

1 Corinthians 12:29 - Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

1 Cor 12:30 - Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1 Cor 12:31 - But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues. for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues.

1 Corinthians Chapter 14: 26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue,

hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

....But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church....

not one Pentecostal church I have ever been to have ever followed this in scripture.

tongues is the least important gift. no interpreter = keep silent.

This same outpouring of the HolyGhost is for us day. We can be filled with HolyGhost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.