You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.
So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are part of the body of Christ!
This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4
3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)
Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.
The following verses sums this up.
Romans 6:5-11.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is other verses that Parallels this.
So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.
As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.
All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38Acts 8:12Acts 8:16Acts 10:48Acts 19:5Acts 22:16Romans 6:3Galatians 3:27Colossians 2:12Ephesians 4:5.
Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17Luke 10:17Acts 4:7Acts 4:30Acts 16:18.
We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16John 6:47Acts 16:311 John 3:231 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.
Acts 1:6-8. sets our priority straight and is relevant to our topic we have been discussing over the last few days.
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
We are given the Holyspirit for the purpose of being light that represents Christ to a dark world.
When we are on our mission there is unity, and our light shines and glorifies God as mentioned in Matthew 5:16.
When united as we should be we function as seen in Ephesians 4:6-14 as I mentioned in the previous thread. This Glorifies God.
John 3:17-21 also puts emphasis on the light.
For lack of time lets go to Revelation with our purpose and commission in mind.
Revelation 3:14-22.
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
As you examine the text, the Laodiceans is Lukewarm and neither cold nor Hot for various reasons.
Verse 19) they are asked to be zealous and repent.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
THEY ARE ASKED TO HAVE A ZEAL.
A zeal for what?
They are not shining light on the Lord by the work that was commissioned to them.
They have grown complacent.
Verse 20 the lord is not even in their midst!
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
We have Ephesians 4:1-13 touching on what's expected.
Vs 1) We are told to
walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
Vs 2) Here's how we are to do it. "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Vs 3) Another Verse that brings clarity to what I posted.
"Endeavouring to KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.
Vs 4-13 ) We are gifted Christ Spirit and offices for him to perform in us. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Contrary to this is Vs 14 where there is no unity but yet DISTRACTIONS and deception.
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Gigi my post was about distractions that take us away from our Great commission.
We don't glorify the Lord that way.
My reply to Ronald was about, out of all the doctrines I mentioned, ( Eschatology, Soteriology, ect ect. Soteriology is the most important and most neglected.
And it is the only one that carries consequences if you get it wrong.
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
When we are truly born again it is an unnatural birth taken place.
We are born of God's Spirit. We are Identified with Christ along with other believers.
This is commonly known as the baptism of the Holyspirit.
That same Spirit seals us until the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30.
When we are born of God's Spirit we may grieve him but our great shepherd never let his sheep stray without seeking and finding him.
Jesus said in John 10:27-29 'My sheep hear my voice, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:
And I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
( That eternal life starts now.) Jesus says he "KNOW" his sheep.
He could never turn around and say I NEVER KNEW YOU, or you've slipped out of our hands.
We are asked to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. because there's a chance we have been manifest that we were not. 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I will pray for your son.
Bad things happens to us all, including our Lord and his Apostles.
I hope you all don't mind if I reply to all of you in this one discussion. I think that would be a little easier for me then answering each one one of you individually. I have decided to take 5 days and pray and study and do some fasting and open my heart to what God is saying about this issue because I NEED to know His truth. If I am wrong about full sanctification and the infilling of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues I WANT to know. Especially if my sin nature (the old man, which is what God calls it.
Ephesians 4: 22-23) is still a part of me and that I shouldn't be accepting faults as just habits that I need the Lord to help me overcome but as actual sins I need to ask forgiveness for.
It's late in the day now, so I'll begin tomorrow, which is Monday, and I'll go through to Friday and then send a reply to you Saturday, March 2nd. No matter what the Lord tells me at the end of the week, I'd like to leave it at that, as far as any more discussion goes on my part. Of course, any of you can reply and I will read them. Then maybe we can find something else to discusses. Please believe me, Adam, I am not being divisive, I am totally sincere. God Bless you all. Have a blessed week. MOMSAGE :)
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
Ephesians 4:23
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:9
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "
2 Corinthians: 517
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Colossians 3:9-10
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Romans 12:2
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
Ephesians 4:23
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:9
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "
2 Corinthians: 517
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Colossians 3:9-10
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Romans 12:2
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
The whole reason you are still struggling with these sins is because you don't believe you can get them completely, totally out of your life. You can, if you believe in the sanctifying blood of Jesus and the strength of the Holy Spirit. We are also sanctified so that our human nature to sin is under the blood and it is eradicated. It has no more power over us as long as we give over to God during temptation and have faith that in Him that we will be able to overcome the temptation so we don't HAVE to sin, not so we CAN sin with impunity because we "can't" help it. This is so wrong. Why wouldn't you want to stop struggling with these sins and eradicate them form your life completely?
Here are some scriptures that tell this truth to us by God Himself:
Ephesians 4:22
"If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye PUT OFF concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye PUT ON THE NEW MAN, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (emphasis' are mine)
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Romans 6: 12-14
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16.
The gospel is power!
Good advice is not worth the snap of the fingers unless there is power to see it through.
There is three steps to our Salvation.
Justification.
Sanctification.
Glorification
Justification is "an act of God whereby He pronounces a sinner to be righteous because of that sinner's faith in Christ." We are justified, or declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation.
Sanctification is "the process by which Christians are set apart for God from the rest of the world, or the process by which Christians are made holy." Progressive, or experiential, sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one's life. It is the same as growing in the Lord ( 2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity.
Glorification is "God's final removal of sin from the life of the saints so that they stand faultless before Him in glory in eternity"
As Christians, we were justified when we confessed Christ and believed ( Romans 10:9), we are sanctified as we grow in holiness through the work of the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:11-32; Galatians 5:16-24, and we will someday be glorified when we are resurrected into eternal life ( Colossians 3:4).
Justification is a one-time event, sanctification is a process, and glorification is a future event.
If you are a Christian, you are guaranteed all three steps.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
I understand your point to Momsage. We all have the tendency to defend people who may seem weak to our eyes (in knowledge or anything else) and get bullyied by others. But here this is not a case of bullying. It is a matter of truth. It is not adequate for one to sit home and read their Bible, God doesn't work like that. That is why He gave the ministries to the church ( Ephesians 4:11), one of them is the teacher, also the Pastor. If we could just stay away from a congregation and read our Bibles and learn everything, God wouldn't give those ministries. But God's work is mainly within the church, not outside it, and we need teachers and people who know a bit more than we do, even history.
I don't claim I am a teacher, I am not. But some things I know, as well as other brothers and sisters, may help somebody to see clearer, or even me. So we put forward what we know, and if the other person has something to say, let them say it. We don't reject somebody's believes without hearing them first. If I have nothing to say to defend my position then this becomes obvious to others. If I don't know much I must either be ready to learn from others otherwise why do I get into a discussion? Is all that wrong? Sorry you are bothered, it is true that sometimes we may seem aggresive but our aim is not to insult the other person but to show what we know it is true. GBU
Our SAVIOR, GOD the LORD JESUS CHRIST is faithful in all HIS promises. Whatever we need to accomplish HIS work, HE will provide.
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
2 Timothy 3:
.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Although the work may be important, there is nothing more important than to spend a "rest time" with the LORD.
As CHRIST always had a time of rest, and prayer with HIS FATHER; let us do the same that we may be restored spiritually, physically as we await the coming of our KING of Glory, the LORD of HOST.
Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
Numbers 6:
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth ....
Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword (the word of God) against him (the WORD) throughout all my mountains (peoples): saith the LORD: every man's sword (word) shall be against his brother(s) (word).
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure and the stature and FULLNESS of Christ:
God's plan is for us to strive against each other, Joseph's brother DID NOT like the word their brother Joseph spoken, and sold him into slavery.
But look what Joseph said, by the spirit of Christ:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought EVIL against me, but God meant it unto GOOD, to SAVE much people alive.
Just walk in the truth of the WORD, his ways are not our ways.
Ephesians 4:13 Till WE ALL COME into the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For IN HIM dwelleth all the FULLNESS of the Godhead BODILY.
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ IN YOU ......are you not the body of Christ .....
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... ye are the BODY of Christ ......
John 19:34 ..... Is it not written IN YOU LAW, I HAVE SAID, Ye are gods?
Thanks for the reply, we do agree on much and I also enjoy our discussions. The Greek definition of the soul and death is where I cannot find that in the Scriptures and that is where our understanding parts and I feel the eternal punishment of the lost comes from the soul is immortal.
I believe God and Jesus dwell in us by the Holy Spirit and we have been sealed, the down payment has been given, 2 Cor. 1:22. We are sealed unto redemption day, Ephesians 4:30, and my understanding is that is when we are resurrected.
The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead will also raise us and quickens our mortal bodies, Romans 8:11, and that is when we receive immortality and our glorified bodies 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. God and Jesus do not still dwell in us after we die/sleep there is no communication, Psalms 6:5. We have the down payment/earnest, the promise, our hope.
Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".
The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.
So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
Elijah was never sent to the cross and died for my sin. It was Jesus Christ the Son of God who paid it all for me and not Elijah. What you have is a very bad teaching. Elijah served as an example of a man of God, however, he did not send the Holy Ghost down nor did he give gifts unto mankind. What Elijiah did in the Old Testament was before the cross, we are after the cross in Christ and not in Elijiah. The bible does not teach, that Elijah was a double for people. Bring me the scripture? It does not exist. An antiChrist Gospel for sure and not out of the mouth of God, as there are no scriptures to back up what you are saying.
Jesus came and spoke words of spirit and life from what he heard from God his Father John 6:63. Jesus never spoke his own words, he received words from his Father in heaven. After the cross, Christ is in me by faith as it is Christ in me the hope of glory. I don't hope you make heaven, I posess that hope in Christ Jesus.
St. Paul was talking about the gifts of the spirit not about the spirit of Elijiah as Jesus sent the Holy Ghost and not the spirit of Elijiah to mankind.
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The gifts of the spirit is the result/ evidence of the Holy Ghost and not Elijiah's spirit.
Ephesians 4:[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ok Jema, I will venture to answer your two questions as simply as I can.
a. Isaiah 13:12: "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." As you no doubt have read through Isaiah & now here from chapter 13, Isaiah prophesies against various nations (chapters 13 to 23). Here in chapter 13, it is against Babylon, where the promise is that God will call His 'separated' ones, His 'mighty' ones to "destroy the whole land"; and this happened when the Medes/Persians overthrew Babylon in 539 BC (also in Daniel 5:30,31). This army came from a far country (over 500 miles east of Babylon). As in the destruction of Babylon, so will it be in the Day of the LORD where the intensity of the destruction is described in Revelation 6:12,13. In both scenarios, the loss of mankind will be so great, God says, "I will make man more precious than fine gold...". This verse speaks of the scarcity of men (including women), that to find even one during those days (of Babylon's destruction & the Lord's coming vengeance) would be of greater discovery & value than finding gold.
b. Colossians 3:10: "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him." I think your question is centered on the last part of this verse. The apostle had just written about 'putting off the old man with his deeds'. But having 'put it off', we must now "put on the new man". The two cannot happily co-exist - it's one or tother before God. And this activity is not a one time act - it is on-going. Here, this renewing is through knowledge (see Ephesians 4:24, where God creates this new man "in righteousness and true holiness"). As we grow in knowledge of God & His blessed Son, we become more like Him (His Image), just as ADAM was CREATED in God's Image. After the fall, that Image was severely marred. But "in Christ" & the Spirit's Work in us, that Image is being gradually restored - if we let His Work continue in us.
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. ( Ephesians 2:5-7).
This verse shows how God is rich in mercy; and goes beyond just a one time experience and puts his people on display for the Millennium and throughout eternity all because of what Christ accomplished on our behalf on the cross. In the present He is working out our salvation through fear and trembling (stating that we are to work it out but implying of course that it is His strength and surrender to the Spirit that accomplishes this: Philippians 2:12-13). This is known as "sanctification" followed by glorification after death or at the time of the Rapture/Resurrection of the saints.
I brought out before in the last post and many times in other posts that God chastises all those He loves. This isn't a popular concept especially among the "prosperity gospel" crowd. Indeed the KJV says we are bastards if we aren't being disciplined in this way ( Heb. 12:8). A human child through the love of the parents is disciplined as the famous "spare the rod and spoil the child" and many like sentiments in scripture indicate ( Prov. 13:24). Ephesians 4:22 says to put off the old man; and Galatians states that we are crucified with Christ (chapter 2; verse 20).
God has also expressed His love in honoring His covenants; both with national Israel and the new covenant with His church.
This would be my response to comments on difficulty conceiving of the value of what happened in the Old Testament. Indeed all scripture is good for instruction and all other tenets as stated in 2 Tim. 3:16. There is much to learn from mistakes of others as well as worthy acts of saints of all ages in scripture.
Holy Spirt states 1John 2:1 children do not sin, & if you do. Indicating their state
Then in 1John 2:12-14 Holy Spirit distinguishes the maturity of the believers, as children who sins are forgiven for His name sake, the young men who have overcome the wicked one & the fathers that have known Him from the beginning, each according to the measure of the Spirit they received in their growth in Christ.
1Pet 5:1 Peter here makes a distinction, in exhorting the elders that are among them
1John 2:6
Your wrong it does imply this, as plenty of Scriptures confirms this.
Rom 8:29, conformed to the image of His Son,
1John 3:3 pure as He is pure
Gal 2:20 not I but Christ lives in me, only the pure in heart see & experience this on the spiritual level Paul is speaking from here.
we think, talk & walk as He did. 1Cor 2:16 we have the mind of Christ. Philippians 2:5
2Pet 1:3 freely has given us all things,
Luke 10:19 He's not talking about physically hurt here, as the Scriptures give witness too.
Luke 12:5 & that fear is to depart from evil, sin along can hurt us.
Col 3:10Ephesians 4:23,24 the renewing of our minds in the knowledge after the image of Him that created him,
"the new man", is the work of Sanctification of the Spirit, bringing us into ever increasing measures of growth to maturity in Christ, the divine nature, fruits of the Spirit & ultimately being born again of the Incorruptible Seed,
your comparisons paragraph
you end with "how are you going to walk differently? You answered your own question
quoting you "I DON'T always in the human perfectly follow" one's not abiding in the Vine & according to this Scriptural statement, one has transgress against the Light, which the Spirit declares in the contest of these Scriptures is that one is still a child, for the young men have overcome the wicked one & the fathers have likewise.
Last par; Yes, this is the heart of the Father in sending His Son, Christ being the first born among many brethern
Salvation there is a death and an ressurection for the TRUE believers.
This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.
Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead
2 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Galatians 6:15
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Colossians 3:1
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Ephesians 4:24
and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Life begins here as a babe in Christ,
God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.
Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.
So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.
We are part of the body of Christ!
This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4
3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)
Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.
The following verses sums this up.
Romans 6:5-11.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
There is other verses that Parallels this.
So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.
You are now justified in the eyes of the Lord.
Thanks and God bless.
As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.
All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38 Acts 8:12 Acts 8:16 Acts 10:48 Acts 19:5 Acts 22:16 Romans 6:3 Galatians 3:27 Colossians 2:12 Ephesians 4:5.
Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18 Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12 Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17 Luke 10:17 Acts 4:7 Acts 4:30 Acts 16:18.
We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16 John 6:47 Acts 16:31 1 John 3:23 1 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.
God bless,
RLW
Part 3.
Acts 1:6-8. sets our priority straight and is relevant to our topic we have been discussing over the last few days.
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
We are given the Holyspirit for the purpose of being light that represents Christ to a dark world.
When we are on our mission there is unity, and our light shines and glorifies God as mentioned in Matthew 5:16.
When united as we should be we function as seen in Ephesians 4:6-14 as I mentioned in the previous thread. This Glorifies God.
John 3:17-21 also puts emphasis on the light.
For lack of time lets go to Revelation with our purpose and commission in mind.
Revelation 3:14-22.
15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
As you examine the text, the Laodiceans is Lukewarm and neither cold nor Hot for various reasons.
Verse 19) they are asked to be zealous and repent.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
THEY ARE ASKED TO HAVE A ZEAL.
A zeal for what?
They are not shining light on the Lord by the work that was commissioned to them.
They have grown complacent.
Verse 20 the lord is not even in their midst!
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Continuing perhaps this weekend.
God bless.
Here's part 2.
We have Ephesians 4:1-13 touching on what's expected.
Vs 1) We are told to
walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
Vs 2) Here's how we are to do it. "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Vs 3) Another Verse that brings clarity to what I posted.
"Endeavouring to KEEP THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.
Vs 4-13 ) We are gifted Christ Spirit and offices for him to perform in us. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Contrary to this is Vs 14 where there is no unity but yet DISTRACTIONS and deception.
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Gigi my post was about distractions that take us away from our Great commission.
We don't glorify the Lord that way.
My reply to Ronald was about, out of all the doctrines I mentioned, ( Eschatology, Soteriology, ect ect. Soteriology is the most important and most neglected.
And it is the only one that carries consequences if you get it wrong.
God bless.
Our purpose is to glorify God.
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
See Part 2. Staying right here in Ephesians.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
God bless,
RLW
Part 3.
How should Christian treat one another?
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8 Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
See part 4.
When we are truly born again it is an unnatural birth taken place.
We are born of God's Spirit. We are Identified with Christ along with other believers.
This is commonly known as the baptism of the Holyspirit.
That same Spirit seals us until the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30.
When we are born of God's Spirit we may grieve him but our great shepherd never let his sheep stray without seeking and finding him.
Jesus said in John 10:27-29 'My sheep hear my voice, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:
And I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
( That eternal life starts now.) Jesus says he "KNOW" his sheep.
He could never turn around and say I NEVER KNEW YOU, or you've slipped out of our hands.
We are asked to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. because there's a chance we have been manifest that we were not. 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I will pray for your son.
Bad things happens to us all, including our Lord and his Apostles.
Tell him to remember Job.
God bless you.
I hope you all don't mind if I reply to all of you in this one discussion. I think that would be a little easier for me then answering each one one of you individually. I have decided to take 5 days and pray and study and do some fasting and open my heart to what God is saying about this issue because I NEED to know His truth. If I am wrong about full sanctification and the infilling of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues I WANT to know. Especially if my sin nature (the old man, which is what God calls it.
Ephesians 4: 22-23) is still a part of me and that I shouldn't be accepting faults as just habits that I need the Lord to help me overcome but as actual sins I need to ask forgiveness for.
It's late in the day now, so I'll begin tomorrow, which is Monday, and I'll go through to Friday and then send a reply to you Saturday, March 2nd. No matter what the Lord tells me at the end of the week, I'd like to leave it at that, as far as any more discussion goes on my part. Of course, any of you can reply and I will read them. Then maybe we can find something else to discusses. Please believe me, Adam, I am not being divisive, I am totally sincere. God Bless you all. Have a blessed week. MOMSAGE :)
1 Corinthians 3: 16-17
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
Ephesians 4:23
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:9
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "
2 Corinthians: 517
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Colossians 3:9-10
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Romans 12:2
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
God Bless :)
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."
Ephesians 4:23
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:9
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: "
2 Corinthians: 517
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Colossians 3:9-10
"Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him."
Romans 12:2
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
God Bless :)
The whole reason you are still struggling with these sins is because you don't believe you can get them completely, totally out of your life. You can, if you believe in the sanctifying blood of Jesus and the strength of the Holy Spirit. We are also sanctified so that our human nature to sin is under the blood and it is eradicated. It has no more power over us as long as we give over to God during temptation and have faith that in Him that we will be able to overcome the temptation so we don't HAVE to sin, not so we CAN sin with impunity because we "can't" help it. This is so wrong. Why wouldn't you want to stop struggling with these sins and eradicate them form your life completely?
Here are some scriptures that tell this truth to us by God Himself:
Ephesians 4:22
"If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye PUT OFF concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye PUT ON THE NEW MAN, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (emphasis' are mine)
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Romans 6: 12-14
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts.
The gospel is not good advice.
However, the gospel is much more than good news!!
The gospel is "the power of God UNTO salvation".
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16.
The gospel is power!
Good advice is not worth the snap of the fingers unless there is power to see it through.
There is three steps to our Salvation.
Justification.
Sanctification.
Glorification
Justification is "an act of God whereby He pronounces a sinner to be righteous because of that sinner's faith in Christ." We are justified, or declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation.
Sanctification is "the process by which Christians are set apart for God from the rest of the world, or the process by which Christians are made holy." Progressive, or experiential, sanctification, as it is sometimes called, is the effect of obedience to the Word of God in one's life. It is the same as growing in the Lord ( 2 Peter 3:18) or spiritual maturity.
Glorification is "God's final removal of sin from the life of the saints so that they stand faultless before Him in glory in eternity"
As Christians, we were justified when we confessed Christ and believed ( Romans 10:9), we are sanctified as we grow in holiness through the work of the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:11-32; Galatians 5:16-24, and we will someday be glorified when we are resurrected into eternal life ( Colossians 3:4).
Justification is a one-time event, sanctification is a process, and glorification is a future event.
If you are a Christian, you are guaranteed all three steps.
THE GOSPEL IS "THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION!
God bless.
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
I understand your point to Momsage. We all have the tendency to defend people who may seem weak to our eyes (in knowledge or anything else) and get bullyied by others. But here this is not a case of bullying. It is a matter of truth. It is not adequate for one to sit home and read their Bible, God doesn't work like that. That is why He gave the ministries to the church ( Ephesians 4:11), one of them is the teacher, also the Pastor. If we could just stay away from a congregation and read our Bibles and learn everything, God wouldn't give those ministries. But God's work is mainly within the church, not outside it, and we need teachers and people who know a bit more than we do, even history.
I don't claim I am a teacher, I am not. But some things I know, as well as other brothers and sisters, may help somebody to see clearer, or even me. So we put forward what we know, and if the other person has something to say, let them say it. We don't reject somebody's believes without hearing them first. If I have nothing to say to defend my position then this becomes obvious to others. If I don't know much I must either be ready to learn from others otherwise why do I get into a discussion? Is all that wrong? Sorry you are bothered, it is true that sometimes we may seem aggresive but our aim is not to insult the other person but to show what we know it is true. GBU
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
2 Timothy 3:
.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Although the work may be important, there is nothing more important than to spend a "rest time" with the LORD.
As CHRIST always had a time of rest, and prayer with HIS FATHER; let us do the same that we may be restored spiritually, physically as we await the coming of our KING of Glory, the LORD of HOST.
Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
Numbers 6:
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Happy New Year, brethren! Our redemption is near.
December 30, 2023
Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth ....
Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword (the word of God) against him (the WORD) throughout all my mountains (peoples): saith the LORD: every man's sword (word) shall be against his brother(s) (word).
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure and the stature and FULLNESS of Christ:
God's plan is for us to strive against each other, Joseph's brother DID NOT like the word their brother Joseph spoken, and sold him into slavery.
But look what Joseph said, by the spirit of Christ:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought EVIL against me, but God meant it unto GOOD, to SAVE much people alive.
Just walk in the truth of the WORD, his ways are not our ways.
God Bless YOU!
I agree, how ever you want to say it.
Ephesians 4:4 .... ONE SPIRIT ....
God Bless YOU!
Is Christ God?
Ephesians 4:13 Till WE ALL COME into the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For IN HIM dwelleth all the FULLNESS of the Godhead BODILY.
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ IN YOU ......are you not the body of Christ .....
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... ye are the BODY of Christ ......
John 19:34 ..... Is it not written IN YOU LAW, I HAVE SAID, Ye are gods?
The Book of Ezekiel takes the spirit of truth to teach you, and lots of meditation.
Ezekiel 1:1 ..... and I saw VISIONS of GOD .... Keep these word at the front of you mind ....
Ephesians 4:4 ... ONE Spirit .... ONE Body ....
Ephesians 4:5 ... ONE God .... Father of ALL (creation, the four creatures).... above ALL .... through ALL ... IN YOU ALL ....
You will have to add many scriptures from the entirety of the word to see the prophecy; which is always the kingdom of God
All creation being made ONE FLESH with Christ and his Father.
A wheel within a wheel (Christ in you)
Ezekiel 1:20 Wheresoever the SPIRIT WENT, THEY WENT ...
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in you and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements an DO THEM.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me, I have given them, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
God Bless YOU
Thanks for the reply, we do agree on much and I also enjoy our discussions. The Greek definition of the soul and death is where I cannot find that in the Scriptures and that is where our understanding parts and I feel the eternal punishment of the lost comes from the soul is immortal.
I believe God and Jesus dwell in us by the Holy Spirit and we have been sealed, the down payment has been given, 2 Cor. 1:22. We are sealed unto redemption day, Ephesians 4:30, and my understanding is that is when we are resurrected.
The same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead will also raise us and quickens our mortal bodies, Romans 8:11, and that is when we receive immortality and our glorified bodies 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. God and Jesus do not still dwell in us after we die/sleep there is no communication, Psalms 6:5. We have the down payment/earnest, the promise, our hope.
Thanks again brother, have a great day.
God bless.
RLW
Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".
The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.
So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
There's one other thing the Holyspirit does that is very much in context with this post is he "Holyspirit" seals us.
Ephesians 4:30.
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, WHEREBY YE ARE SEALED (UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION).
Jesus came and spoke words of spirit and life from what he heard from God his Father John 6:63. Jesus never spoke his own words, he received words from his Father in heaven. After the cross, Christ is in me by faith as it is Christ in me the hope of glory. I don't hope you make heaven, I posess that hope in Christ Jesus.
St. Paul was talking about the gifts of the spirit not about the spirit of Elijiah as Jesus sent the Holy Ghost and not the spirit of Elijiah to mankind.
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The gifts of the spirit is the result/ evidence of the Holy Ghost and not Elijiah's spirit.
Ephesians 4:[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
a. Isaiah 13:12: "I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." As you no doubt have read through Isaiah & now here from chapter 13, Isaiah prophesies against various nations (chapters 13 to 23). Here in chapter 13, it is against Babylon, where the promise is that God will call His 'separated' ones, His 'mighty' ones to "destroy the whole land"; and this happened when the Medes/Persians overthrew Babylon in 539 BC (also in Daniel 5:30,31). This army came from a far country (over 500 miles east of Babylon). As in the destruction of Babylon, so will it be in the Day of the LORD where the intensity of the destruction is described in Revelation 6:12,13. In both scenarios, the loss of mankind will be so great, God says, "I will make man more precious than fine gold...". This verse speaks of the scarcity of men (including women), that to find even one during those days (of Babylon's destruction & the Lord's coming vengeance) would be of greater discovery & value than finding gold.
b. Colossians 3:10: "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him." I think your question is centered on the last part of this verse. The apostle had just written about 'putting off the old man with his deeds'. But having 'put it off', we must now "put on the new man". The two cannot happily co-exist - it's one or tother before God. And this activity is not a one time act - it is on-going. Here, this renewing is through knowledge (see Ephesians 4:24, where God creates this new man "in righteousness and true holiness"). As we grow in knowledge of God & His blessed Son, we become more like Him (His Image), just as ADAM was CREATED in God's Image. After the fall, that Image was severely marred. But "in Christ" & the Spirit's Work in us, that Image is being gradually restored - if we let His Work continue in us.
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. ( Ephesians 2:5-7).
This verse shows how God is rich in mercy; and goes beyond just a one time experience and puts his people on display for the Millennium and throughout eternity all because of what Christ accomplished on our behalf on the cross. In the present He is working out our salvation through fear and trembling (stating that we are to work it out but implying of course that it is His strength and surrender to the Spirit that accomplishes this: Philippians 2:12-13). This is known as "sanctification" followed by glorification after death or at the time of the Rapture/Resurrection of the saints.
I brought out before in the last post and many times in other posts that God chastises all those He loves. This isn't a popular concept especially among the "prosperity gospel" crowd. Indeed the KJV says we are bastards if we aren't being disciplined in this way ( Heb. 12:8). A human child through the love of the parents is disciplined as the famous "spare the rod and spoil the child" and many like sentiments in scripture indicate ( Prov. 13:24). Ephesians 4:22 says to put off the old man; and Galatians states that we are crucified with Christ (chapter 2; verse 20).
God has also expressed His love in honoring His covenants; both with national Israel and the new covenant with His church.
This would be my response to comments on difficulty conceiving of the value of what happened in the Old Testament. Indeed all scripture is good for instruction and all other tenets as stated in 2 Tim. 3:16. There is much to learn from mistakes of others as well as worthy acts of saints of all ages in scripture.
Holy Spirt states 1John 2:1 children do not sin, & if you do. Indicating their state
Then in 1John 2:12-14 Holy Spirit distinguishes the maturity of the believers, as children who sins are forgiven for His name sake, the young men who have overcome the wicked one & the fathers that have known Him from the beginning, each according to the measure of the Spirit they received in their growth in Christ.
1Pet 5:1 Peter here makes a distinction, in exhorting the elders that are among them
1John 2:6
Your wrong it does imply this, as plenty of Scriptures confirms this.
Rom 8:29, conformed to the image of His Son,
1John 3:3 pure as He is pure
Gal 2:20 not I but Christ lives in me, only the pure in heart see & experience this on the spiritual level Paul is speaking from here.
we think, talk & walk as He did. 1Cor 2:16 we have the mind of Christ. Philippians 2:5
2Pet 1:3 freely has given us all things,
Luke 10:19 He's not talking about physically hurt here, as the Scriptures give witness too.
Luke 12:5 & that fear is to depart from evil, sin along can hurt us.
Col 3:10 Ephesians 4:23,24 the renewing of our minds in the knowledge after the image of Him that created him,
"the new man", is the work of Sanctification of the Spirit, bringing us into ever increasing measures of growth to maturity in Christ, the divine nature, fruits of the Spirit & ultimately being born again of the Incorruptible Seed,
your comparisons paragraph
you end with "how are you going to walk differently? You answered your own question
quoting you "I DON'T always in the human perfectly follow" one's not abiding in the Vine & according to this Scriptural statement, one has transgress against the Light, which the Spirit declares in the contest of these Scriptures is that one is still a child, for the young men have overcome the wicked one & the fathers have likewise.
Last par; Yes, this is the heart of the Father in sending His Son, Christ being the first born among many brethern
I believe it's how you respond to this anger is what makes it sinful.
One can be right in what he say to another but yet commit sin in saying it because their intentions was meant to hurt.
However I'm not saying that whatever is said is truth.
Be careful and see if our actions is meant to hurt or not.
Also we should consider
Matthew 5:22.
God bless.
This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.
Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead
2 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Galatians 6:15
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Colossians 3:1
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Ephesians 4:24
and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Life begins here as a babe in Christ,
God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.
If this is not gotten right nothing else matters.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.