Discuss Genesis 12 Page 4

Christians don't believe in 3 separate Gods. Christians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, because it literally says that in the Bible in 1 John 5:7 and Christians believe the Bible is the Word of God. It also is mentioned in other verses: Link

Why do some Christians believe in three gods

Father son and holy ghost?

Jesus often spoke of Himself as Son of Man as He sometimes referred to Himself as Son of God. He was correct in doing so, as He was both: He was the Word of God made flesh (man) John 1:1-14 and He was also a Man (by that same reference & the account of His human birth: Matthew 1:20-25). For His Own reasons, Jesus used these designations interchangeably depending on who He was speaking to & in what context. In any case, those that heard His teachings & saw His miracles knew that Jesus' claim to be the Son of God was clear & specific. Even at the cross, they cried out to Him, "If Thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross" ( Matthew 27:40).

Adam & Eve were our first parents & it wasn't until a specific calling (of Abraham) that a holy line of people began to form. True, of the sons of Noah (i.e. prior to Abraham), Shem was elected to be the forefather of the later nation of Israel. And from Shem, Abraham came & became the promise of being the father of a great nation ( Genesis 12:1-3) & of many nations ( Genesis 17:1-5). As the nation of Israel grew in number & expanded by conquering opposing lands, they began to intermarry with the Canaanite nations, when clearly forbidden to do so by God: Deuteronomy 7:1-4; 1 Kings 11:1,2; Nehemiah 13:3, 23-27. Therefore, I feel that there are no pure Jews today; even though some would have stayed true to the Word of God, maybe their children (even a few) chose to intermarry, then that purity would continue to diminish over succeeding generations. I hope that is what you were seeking to know Joseph.

Infact God told Abraham to live his country and his father's house into a place He will show him with a promise to protect him wherever he may go. So if Abam said the truth , God would have protected him. This also paved way for Sarah to give her maid to Abram to fulfill the promise of God to bless the decendants of Abram. We must be always faithful to God and he save us like He did to Joseph, but yet though if we sin, he is still with us. May God bless us all Amen

That's a fair comment you made, Veronica. I don't believe that Abram got away lightly over this deception as all sin is abominable to the Lord. Yet, we aren't told anymore about this matter apart from God's dealing with Pharaoh by sending plagues on him & his household. Rather this portion emphasizes God's action against Pharaoh for taking another woman, & especially, though not mentioned, one from a holy (a set apart) lineage. Maybe Pharaoh was ignorant over this & our ignorance over a possible objection by Abram & Sarai to her being taken, but his act of acquiring was sufficient to bring on God's displeasure.

So it's difficult to give a clear opinion based on what is revealed to us. What took place before Pharaoh & God's Actions as a result of the wrongs by both Abram & Pharaoh, are things we're not privy to & best left in the 'Unknown Tray'.

1 Samuel 2:3 when you paraphrase...for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

Abram lied to pharaoh about Sarai being his sister and God sent a plague on pharoah"s land was this acceptable by God that he lied?

Daniel, you bring up some good points in this account of Lot & his family. Unfortunately, the whole story of Lot's life is not given to us (& this is not a cop out to excuse him or even to suggest something that's not written). So we can only guess what might have happened. We do know that the Apostle Peter ( 2 Peter 2:6-8) speaks of the righteous aspect of Lot, in that he was vexed by the wickedness of Sodom & Gomorrah, which might have meant that he did, in some small way, try to influence the people to turn from wickedness - he had some authority there in Sodom as he "sat at the gate of Sodom". Yet, Peter doesn't refer to what he did that we regard as sinful behaviour.

It's noteworthy, that in eastern cultures, certainly in times of the Old Testament, that when a guest comes to your house, he is regarded with the highest honour possible, both in receiving the best you have to offer as well as full protection. The only right thing for Lot to do when confronted by those depraved men at his door was to offer his daughters so that his guests would not be humiliated or hurt. I did wonder why Lot didn't offer himself - it would have been the more noble thing to do. I realize that this type of behaviour is a difficult concept for us to grasp & should not be used as an excuse for such sin, but that's how it was.

In regards to God dealing with Lot - we just don't know. Did God severely chastise him & judge him & ultimately relegated him to the abyss? Or, did Lot realize his great folly & cry out to God in repentance, having also been witness to his Uncle Abraham's sins of the past & possible repentance at the altar he made ( Genesis 12:12-20; 13:1-5)? We can only speculate, rather than condemn Lot & his daughters entirely. And we know that God never overlooks sin & judgement remains for those who spurn His Love by sinning. Yet His Mercy extends to all sinners & His Grace to fully forgive the penitent.

The Lord God will forgive anyone in the flesh until they die if they ask from their heart and truly are sorry for the sins they have done. Now the sin for murder for gain is very serious and it's something you don't want to do and then there is the set aside ones that will Stand up when the false Messiah, antichrist comes anyway they the elect will make a stand against the false instead of Christ that the people have been deceived by because the world believed that this first Jesus with supernatural powers is God returned and are worshipping Satan in Satans deception but not the elect and when they stand the Holy Spirit speaks through them and if they refuse the Holy Spirit and don't that is the unpardonable sin. When the elect make the stand listen to what they say. Don't be deceived from Satan booted to earth and standing in Jerusalem claiming he is God.

Sorry Marianna, you are right, he didn't lie, he just conveniently looked at it from a different perspective to achieve an outcome without actually telling a fib. Modern humans have perfected this to an art form....Abraham is one my heros,I would never criticize him, see my comments on chapter 18.

Abram did not lie!!

Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Hi Chris - Really appreciate your response. If I'd only clicked on the link below the photo in the Wiki article in the first place, it would have led me to the source. It appears the passage in question originates from the 1609 old testament translation of the Latin Vulgate into English by scholars at the Catholic Seminary English College in Douai, France. The Latin Vulgate version was commissioned by Pope Damasus in 382 and a direct translation from the Hebrew Tanakh. Thus, the book of Ecclesiasticus from which the Saint Mary Cathedral quote sprang is much closer to the text in the Hebrew bible. If one compares the King James version of the bible with the Douay-Rheims edition, it can be quite revelatory. Again, thank you for your informative reply.

Phil, I had to do a little research on that. The best I could come up with is that the verse you've given is found in the Sirach chapter 4 in the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA).

However, this Book Sirach has also been identified with the Apocryphal Book, Ecclesiasticus, the Wisdom of Sirach. But when I looked for this verse in Ecclesiasticus, there was nothing, so my guess that the verse in question only appears in certain 'publications' (e.g. Douay-Rheims) & those that the RCs subscribe to.

In the Wiki article about old Saint Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco, there is a panel below the bell tower clock which shows a quote, or reference, to Ecclesiastes 4:23, which says: "Son, observe the time and fly from evil". I have looked online at the book of Ecclesiastes and the last verse in chapter 4 appears to be 17. Can someone help me solve this mystery? Thank you

Thanks for your reply...God Bless

Those are found in 1 Corinthians 12

1 Corinthians 13, 1 Corinthians 14. They are given to us by the Holy Spirit. (You can open those links)

We are to covet the best gifts; but for me I think the Holy Spirit should choose.

I'm sure you can google how the gifts have operated in some people's lives. We can learn how the gifts operate through Jesus, in our Bible. I personally think that spiritual discernment is most helpful.

What are the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

Revelation 16:12

The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the EAST.

Revelation 9:16-18

The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these THREE PLAGUES, A THIRD OF MANKIND IS KILLED by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Isaiah 49:12

Behold, these shall come from AFAR, and behold, these from the north and from the west, and these from the land of Syene."

China gave us Swine FLU. SARS virus, Corona virus. I got a feeling that corona virus isn't done killing yet.

Google Past Pandemic LIST

It will have World death totals by country.

I don't think we need to act like this is just like past FLU episodes. We get a flu shot and feel protected for another year. Corona virus doesn't act like past flu's.

I didn't know there were any scriptures of China in the Bible. I looked it up as a lark.

It would be helpful if Bible scholars in here would look up the ancient names of those scriptures mention of places in China. What are their names now?

Hard to say if Abram was being a faithless chicken or being lead by God here. I think he would have been OK if he didn't lie about Sarai as God would have somehow shielded him anyway, but fear is a very human trait even in great men and in the end God took a bad situation and made it a good one as he does for all of us who love him.

The thing that makes the bible so special, is that it doesn't mask or hide the weaknesses of the heros in it. They are just people like us, frail and vulnerable and making many mistakes as we make our journey toward heaven and rely on our Lord to help us.

what was the famine in Genesis Chapt. 12:10

Chris,

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Another popular theory among Bible students concerning the flood of Noah's time is offered to explain the fact that not only did the different ethnic races of humans survive the flood, but that the "giants" ( Genesis 6:4) that were upon the earth before the flood, also survived the flood. Giants are the product of fallen Angels mating with humans. They survived because Scripture states that they were upon the earth "also after that" ( Genesis 6:4), hence, after the flood of Noah's time occurred. More proof lies in the fact that David fought the GIANT Goliath approximately 2500 years later. This theory explains that the flood of Noah's time was only localized to that particular area in which Noah and the rest of the extended families of Adam lived, and migrated into. The flood was sent unto this specific area that was originally inhabited by the offspring of the fallen angels (rendered "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2, 4), and their families. They initially populated this particular land because their instruction was to come expressly unto the daughters of Adam, to "take them wives of all which they chose" ( Genesis 6:2), so that they could "bare children to them" ( Genesis 6:4), thereby intermixing and corrupting the seed line of the Messiah to the point of no return. These "giants," and their offspring, eventually may have settled outside the flood area, and subsequently were not a part of that destruction, also look at Genesis 12:6, 13:7, 15:19 - 21.

I believe that either, both, or a combination of these, and other possible scenarios that can be backed by Scripture, are the reason why all races are on the earth today.

jesus was a jew he has grafted us in to the covenant of abraham , galatians 3-29 ,matthew1-1

Weird, but last night I was reading blessings of obedience and penalties of disobedience: Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. I'm wondering if God is trying to get our attention to come back to Him, in America? Pastor Chuck Swindoll preached the same thing on the radio today. In Genesis 12:1-3 speaking of Israel, that God will bless THEM that bless thee; and curse him that curseth thee'. I think USA has blessed Israel despite Politicians that want stop helping them. It makes sense to go with blessings as opposed to disobedience. Just because it's Old Testament is no reason discount the direction our nation has been going for decades. People are running about hoarding every day and nome of them praying? There's going to be none of that kind of acts in Heaven. We're supposed to be renewing our minds on the Bible, every day, so we can be more like Jesus! It's not funny when the devil has everyone driving around to find toilet paper and stuff. :(

Lets listen to praise music more.

How can truth be a lie? I don't know about some of you people. Isn't the purpose to tell the truth?

I like to listen to the narrator read the scriptures out loud, as I read along in my bible. Using both sight and hearing helps me to retain God's holy word better. I did catch a mistake the narrator made in reading Genesis 12:19. His words did not line up with God's words. Humans make mistakes. God does not.

It was most certainly a lie, when its purpose was to deceive.

Really it wasn't a lie. Sarah was his sister. Daughter of his mother but not the daughter of his father.

Father of the faith, even with the "lie", to obey is better than sacrifice and to whom else has God called them "friend"??? His faith was tested, as is ours today. i wanna be like believing Abraham!

Here in Genesis Abram was trusting and obedient to GOD. Abram Faith was at work. Because faith without work is dead. Abram did as he was directed. This was the first call out of the three in which he was called. After receiving directions from GOD, Abram began on his journey. There was a famine in the land of Egypt. Abram knew that he would be killed if he hadn't to a lie that Sari was is sister.

Yes he is. The battle is not ours it belong to GOD. GOD is our refuge.