Discuss Genesis 15 Page 2

Abrahamic Covenant.

Part 3.

Centuries after Abraham died, the children of Israel took possession of the land under Joshua's leadership ( Joshua 21:43). At no point in history, though, has Israel controlled all of the land God had specified. There remains, therefore, a final fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant that will see Israel occupying their God-given homeland to the fullest extent. The fulfillment will be more than a matter of geography; it will also be a time of holiness and restoration (see Ezekiel 20:40-44 and 36:1-37:28).

The Abrahamic Covenant also promised many descendants ( Genesis 12:2). God promised that the number of Abraham's children would rival that of "the dust of the earth" ( Genesis 15:16). Nations and kings would proceed from him ( Genesis 17:6). It is significant that the promise was given to an aged, childless couple. But Abraham "did not waver through unbelief" ( Romans 4:20), and his wife Sarah "considered him faithful who had made the promise" ( Hebrews 11:11). Abraham was justified by his faith ( Genesis 15:6), and he and his wife welcomed Isaac, the son of promise, into their home when they were 100 and 90 years old, respectively ( Genesis 21:5).

God reiterates the Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac and to his son Jacob, whose name God changes to Israel. The great nation is eventually established in the land where Abraham had dwelled. King David, one of Abraham's many descendants, is given the Davidic Covenant ( 2 Samuel 7:12-16), promising a "son of David" who would one day rule over the Jewish nation-and all nations-from Jerusalem. Many other Old Testament prophecies point to the blessed, future fulfillment of that promise (e.g., Isaiah 11; Micah 4; Zechariah 8).

See Part 4.

Abrahamic Covenant.

Part 2.

In Genesis 15, God alone moves between the halves of the animals. Abraham was in a deep sleep. God's solitary action indicates that the covenant is principally His promise. God binds Himself to the covenant.

Later, God gave Abraham the rite of circumcision as the specific sign of the Abrahamic Covenant ( Genesis 17:9-14). All males in Abraham's line were to be circumcised and thus carry with them a lifelong mark in their flesh that they were part of God's physical blessing in the world. Any descendant of Abraham who refused circumcision was declaring himself to be outside of God's covenant; this explains why God was angry with Moses when Moses failed to circumcise his son ( Exodus 4:24-26).

God determined to call out a special people for Himself, and through that special people He would bless the whole world. The Lord tells Abram,

"I will make you into a great nation,

and I will bless you;

I will make your name great,

and you will be a blessing.

I will bless those who bless you,

and whoever curses you I will curse;

and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you" ( Genesis 12:2-3).

Based on this promise, God later changed Abram's name from Abram ("high father") to Abraham ("father of a multitude") in Genesis 17:5. As we've seen, the Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional. It should also be taken literally. There is no need to spiritualize the promise to Abraham. God's promises to Abraham's descendants will be fulfilled literally.

The Abrahamic Covenant included the promise of land ( Genesis 12:1). It was a specific land, an actual property, with dimensions specified in Genesis 15:18-21. In Genesis 13:15, God gives Abraham all the land that he can see, and the gift is declared to be "forever." God was not going to renege on His promise. The territory given as part of the Abrahamic Covenant is expanded in Deuteronomy 30:1-10, often called the Palestinian Covenant.

See Part 3.

The root of the idea that one can lose his salvation is a works based salvation.

This suggests the covenant is made by God "and you".

" God would multiply Abraham's seed by one coming whom the Gentiles will trust and when he gets here you have a role to play to initiate it."

This idea puts us in bondage!

Galatians 4:23-28

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Hebrews 6:17-19.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

WHICH HOPE WE HAVE AS AN ANCHOR OF THE SOUL, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, and which entereth into that within the veil.

UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT.

Genesis 15:2-12.

God performs the ritual for the covenant alone,.

That makes it unconditional.

The promise has an inheritance.

A city made without hands! Hebrews 11:9-10.

The birth of Issac was the result of Gods faithfulness

Abraham couldn't do anything to void it. Abraham believed God!

We're children of promise and there is nothing we can do to void it.

This promise is given to those who believe.

God bless and good night.

Heavenly Father and God You who have created all people, also given them faith in which they go out. You who know all thoughts and motives. We pray for Your will to be done in this prayer in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. You understand their situation. Their distress.

May You fill them with the Holy Spirit who brings the wisdom needed. Fill it with power and strength to face the day and the challenges Lord Jesus. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your house will be saved. Hallelujah Amen. Thank you that the Lord allows you to now see opportunities in all areas. We ask for miracles and signs Lord so that "Taris daniel" understand that You are with us/them every day, You are there for a reason that may be difficult to understand/see now. The Lord is with you every day, not just among sometime. All days. What did He say to Joshua 1:5 Johua was given a big task. And he completed it. Stand on God's word and what He has given you. Amen.

hint: Look around and think a bit like this: Stay a while and see if there is any place that might not be quite normal or put one question mark outside the "box". He will help in a wonderful way. Jesus is with you. The Lord is with you, you shall lack nothing. You are not forgotten. Hallelujah Amen, God will reward one who goes out on the Word. Genesis 15:6-7. We pray in Jesus Christ's Holy Name, Amen. May God Himself bless you in Spirit, Soul and body. Love u in Christ. James 1:21-27

Page 1.

Thanks David 0920 for your detailed explanation of your understanding. I wasn't quite sure of it from your initial & subsequent posts, therefore my continuing to pursue it so as to be sure.

Okay, now that I understand you, I can appreciate why you would find disagreement with my belief on correct biblical hermeneutics. First to your questions. Since you enquired of me those questions, I thought to myself, well how could you find answers to them yourself? Just as I cannot find any biblical instruction 'not to do any of those things you suggested', so to, I don't believe there's any instruction to do so. The reason we can find Scriptural support & understanding in the NT, is because those who know the Word can see the connections.

There are many things that we read in the OT that we can see fulfilled in the NT. You've suggested the sacrificial system & ceremonial laws; the account of Ruth, Esther & Job; and others. We can even see the Apostle Paul finding connection with Hagar of the OT to the NT (i.e. concerning the Law, Hagar was the bondwoman, representing the Covenant made at Mt. Sinai & bringing the Israelites into bondage to the Law). But the freewoman (Sarah) - the heavenly Jerusalem, was given by promise, that which gives us freedom from the bondage to the Law & liberty now in Christ ( Galatians 4:21-31)). Here, Paul gives us the correct way of reading, interpreting & applying these OT events to the NT Church. He saw that Ishmael's birth was according to the flesh ( Galatians 4:23), i.e. Abraham not holding onto God's Promise that one "that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir" ( Genesis 15:4); but Isaac's birth was according to God's Promise.

Damascus was a place mentioned several times in Old Testament, Genesis 14:15, Genesis 15:2, 2Samuel 8:5,6, 1Kings 11:1-25, 1Kings 19:14-18, 1Kings 20, 2Chronicles 16,

2Kings 5,

2Kings 8, notice 2Kings 8:12,13, 2Chronicles 24:23, 2Chronicles 28:5,23,

Isaiah 7:8,9, Isaiah 8:4, Isaiah 10:9, Isaiah 17, James 1:5,

In the New Testament it's the road to Damascus was the place of Saul's conversion to Paul: Acts 9, Acts 22, Acts 26, it's symbolic to many Christians as a turning point in Christian faith.

Hopefully these are helpful in your study

Hello Bobby. In Romans 4:8, the Apostle Paul is quoting directly from Psalm 32:1,2, where in that Psalm, David is rejoicing in receiving God's Forgiveness (possibly this Psalm is a sequel to Psalm 51).

Then in Romans 4:1-8, Paul gives an example of Abraham who was justified before God (i.e. declared righteous) without him having to work to obtain that right standing before God. If Abraham had any goodness within him that could secure God's Approval, then he would have to pat himself on the back, for God would give him no credit (loosely translated from verse 2). But as Genesis 15:6 states, "And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (God) counted it to him for righteousness".

So Paul uses these illustrations to show that our righteousness before God can only come by faith alone in Him and nothing else. That being the case, how "blessed" are those who are completely forgiven, sins cast aside, and we now stand before the Lord uncondemned. When the Lord does not "impute" sin to the one made righteous by faith, that sin which was removed can no longer be reckoned or charged to his 'account' (i.e. not imputed). This of course, does not give the saved sinner liberty to continue to sin knowing he is made righteous before God, but now being saved from sin's penalty & God's Judgement, he by the power of the Holy Spirit within will now live unto God, dealing swiftly with any sin that surfaces. As 2 Corinthians 5:15 states, "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." "...we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" ( Hebrews 10:39).

We are indeed so blessed to be in this glorious position of being the beloved of God, accepted, uncondemned. Those thoughts should always be in the forefront of our hearts & minds when sin comes knocking at our door.

Predestination part 4

What about those who have never heard?

I may have said a lot of this stuff before; hopefully there are a few nuances of difference. The scripture is always the best guide to answering tough questions. We have examples of Abraham called out of Ur of Chaldee; for example who was the father of all those of Monotheistic faith today. He was called in a foreign land; and given a future promise of a Promised Land as well as offspring who would inherit it ( Genesis 17:2 and repeated in Hebrews). He never got to dwell permanently anywhere but was a nomad in the desert and through miraculous means his wife of 90 conceived when he was 100.

When we look at the story of Sodom and Gomorrah; we could say that Abraham was having a sort of contest with God on a similar theme; His preservation of the city if a small number of righteous men lived there; he started with 50 men and ended at 10. This shows a theme which also was repeated with God waiting for a certain period until transgressions were full to judge in Genesis 15:16. Sodom was ripe for judgment as were the Amorites; but in their case it wasn't until four generations later and THAT along with Egypt being judged for their fullness of iniquity that finally bought the descendants to conquer the Promised Land. So God calls out His people wherever they are if they are chosen (predestined) to be His children. He will send angels or whatever means to reach the lost; and we see this happening again in the Book of Revelation. If we seek the God of the Bible then we have to believe His Word on our spiritual condition (as sinners) and we need to have it revealed to us (i.e. granted repentance as shown in Acts 11:18 and elsewhere.

The confession of our mouth and believe in our heart ( Romans 10:19) it is a RESULT of His Spirit working in us to convict of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8-11).

Conversion of course involves interaction and our choice to verbally repent.

Psalm 47.

This once again seems to focus on the future Millennium reign. His "triumph" in verse 1 results in being King over the earth (v. 2); and then subduing people under Him (verse 3). The concept of His ruling with an iron rod is in Psalm 2:9 and also found in multiple passages in Revelation.

The inheritance of His choice in verse 4 ties in with the eternal covenant with Abraham in Genesis 15:18. These have yet to be completed; they were only partially so during Solomon's reign and then eventually the nation split between Israel and Judah and there were multiple invasions and diasporas. The term "shields" seems to represent the protective aspect of God especially in the area where Christ rules in the Holy mountain during the Millennium. This is seen in Isaiah 2:2 but also envisioned in many other scriptures especially Zechariah. Isaiah 11 and 65 discuss even the animals submitting; along with no one causing harm in this place at that time. Obviously after this time in eternity nowhere will anyone cause harm once the heavenly city descends to earth and we have a final new heaven and earth. Agape.

Verses 5 through 8 discuss shouting and singing praises and repeats the theme in verse 8 of God "ruling over the heathen" as well as sitting on His throne.

The princes in the last verse could well represent the church as we are to rule and reign as kings and priests ( Rev. 1:6 etal).

The mentioning of the Amorites was a people referred to in verse 16, and they were representative of the other peoples in Canaan. And those others are mentioned in verses 19 to 21. The Egyptians were not in this part of the world, but all these other groups were given over to idolatry & were under God's Judgement.

Who are the other heathen around them that they represent ? Egyptians

In Genesis chapter 15, we read about God speaking with Abram, that the day would come when Abram, who was childless at that time, would have a great progeny that would be without number. Then God speaks to Abram about the coming servitude of Israel to the Egyptians (vv13,14). But after four hundred years (or, the fourth generation: v16), they will finally be set free & enter into the land that God had promised them.

And the reason given is in verse 16, "But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." The land of Canaan was at that time filled with many people groups, such as the Amorites, Canaanites, Jebusites, etc.(vv19-21) & they were all wicked & idol worshippers. So, it was the Judgement of God that was to fall upon them for their wickedness, and it would be the Israelites that would be the instrument that God would use to wipe them out & that Israel would possess that land which God has promised them. The iniquity (wickedness) of the Amorites (probably, a people representative of the other heathen around them), had not fully matured, but when it happened, the Anger of the LORD would be poured out upon them. As a side note, the Israelites did not completely wipe out the idolators, and so in this they disobeyed God & also suffered for it by having those customs & practises permeate into Israel's life & worship.

This Psalm is focusing on those who would be what we call today "atheists." They are said here to do terrible things; as well as go after God's people. Verses 1 and 3 remind us that there is no one who does good. We see this sort of behavior in the end of dispensations of time when "judgment comes to the full" starting in Genesis 15:16; and it continues to the transgressions of Babylon at the end of the 70 years of captivity as well as the time in Revelation in the example of a few instances.

Lest we entertain the tought that this state is only for those who deny that God exists; we surely have to realize the admonitions in 2 Thessalonians 2:10 about those who did not receive the LOVE of the truth. Ultimately; as Romans 1 and Psalm 19 indicate there is enough evidence in Creation that men are without excuse; also including evidence of the godhead ( Romans 1:20). We are reminded that because God does not execute judgment right away men get complacent in Ecclesiastes 8:11.

We are reminded here in verse 6 of the treatment of the poor of Proverbs 21:20 where "a fool and his money are soon parted." Some; thankfully will repent when humbled enough; sadly others not as Revelation makes all too clear. The last verse once again looks forward to the salvation of the nation of Israel; related to the last days return of His people. Israel for now is far nationally from repentance; and it won't fully repent and come to the true Messiah until the Lord is returning ( Zechariah 12:12 and surrounding verses). Let us all test our hearts to make sure that we are worthy to escape all the things that are to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man ( Luke 21:36 see also Rev. 3:10).

What is the iniquity of the Amorites?

Luke 3, Genesis 5,

Interesting years don't seem as significant to GOD as they are to man. Isaiah 55:8-11

Events, seem to be the significant time table to GOD, Genesis 15:13-16, Revelation 6:9-11, 2Peter 3:8-11, Romans 16:25, Revelation 10:7,

It almost seems like you're asking because of a Biblical study question

Events seem to be GOD's timing = Noah Genesis 6,7, Abraham 14 generations, to David as references in Matthew 1:17, including within those 400+ years in Egypt, Abraham himself being old before birth of Isaac. & Genesis 15:16.

Revelation 6:9,10,11, Revelation 17:14-17, James 5:7,

it appears to me that the final martyr of GOD's beloved, will ignite. Like the other events in the written Word.

Hebrews 1:13, Matthew 24, Mark 13,

As a loving Father, HE appears to be balancing the mercy of HIS will, that none should perish of the people; Matthew 18:14, 2Peter 3:1-18, & mercy for HIS children, Hebrews 11:6-40,

Isaac and Jacob were both circumcised__as was Ishmael.

God initiated a covenant with Abraham that the Jews would be circumcised. Genesis 17:7-14; 21

In Genesis 17:15-21. God initiated a Covenant with Abraham and his wife Sarah, that a child of their flesh would be born to them in one years time.

In Genesis 17:20 God tells of the blessing given to Ishmael and his descendants: wealth, princes, power, kingdoms. Genesis 15:4, God says Ishmael is not Abrahams heir.

The DEED to the Lands of Israel- Genesis 12:1-3, 6-7 and

Genesis 17:7-8. Genesis 15:12-21.

These are the issues that perpetuate struggles in the land of Israel. I know Ishmael was firstborn, but his mother is Hagar a handmaiden to Sarah. Abrahams wife was Sarah; the marriage covenant wife of Abraham. If you'll Google Hagars history, you'll see she returned to her people with Ishmael.

Later Sarah died and Abraham married another woman. Hagar returned there. I think I remember that she lived there for a time, but not in Abraham's household. Eventually she returned to her people. It's a very sad story.

I've lived missed opportunities myself. It's harsh. But we get up out of the ashes and see what God has planned for us, next.

Endings are usually sad, but new beginnings can be joyful.

Mishael

Dear Bruce,

I have three lesbian sisters. I have only been able to talk with one of them about their soul condition and need for salvation in all of these 50 years they have been in this lifestyle. I continue to pray for them. God does not give up on our loved ones once we have gone on to be with Jesus. He will continue to seek and save the lost.

I also have three sons who were brought up in the faith but all three turned away from it in their late teens/early twenties. The lure and deception of this world and their generations' culture greatly influenced their choices to turn from Jesus. As a parent, this grieves me very much. But I do believe that God loves them more than I ever could and that He is able to work in their lives 24/7 and I can not. So I came to decide over 20 years ago to really leave them in God's hands, as that is the best place for them to be. I continue to pray for them almost daily. I know God hears my prayers and does answer them even though I cannot necessarily see how He is working things out for their good.

Hello Alan. Brother Richard has shared some wonderful accounts that should give you peace in your heart & hope that with God, nothing is impossible. You sound like a man who has spent much time in advising your children & in much prayer for them - efforts before God that won't go to waste.

When we think of the myriad of ways that the Lord can direct lives, order events, bring people or situations around for the fulfilment of His Purposes, we can indeed entrust our loved ones into His care & safekeeping. Just continue to love the Lord with all your heart, love your family with that same love that God has filled you with, and lay them continually before Him - no prayer goes unanswered - no cry unheard. Trust Him for the outcome - to Him Who does all things well. When we, as sinners, finally come to understand that the wrong things we have done are what greatly trouble our souls - there being no longer satisfaction from them - that an eternity of punishment awaits all who spurn God's Love, then the salvation from Jesus becomes far greater than the fickle satisfaction through sin. May your dear ones be exercised by God's Spirit, that the day will come when they cry out for His Mercy. We may not see it now, but God's Work is precise & unrelenting, especially to those we cry to Him for. 1 John 5:14,15; 2 Peter 3:9; Isaiah 55:10,11.

If I understand you correctly your son and daughter are both living gay lifestyles. I will keep them in prayer. I did want to state that a pastor of mine; now in his 90s named Ken Smith spent 2 years counseling Rosanna Butterfield who used to be a lesbian professer in Syracuse. She came out of that due to the pastor and his wife patiently showing agape love; and wrote a book called confessions of an unlikely convert or something to that effect. She was interviewed by another rather famous ex-gay named Becket Cook found on you tube. Not only this; but I have a friend who used to live that way but since the 1990s has been born again as well. So it is not hopeless; there are many testimonies on You Tube as well from individuals that used to have these lifestyles. Along with many who used to be involved with New Age that have been transformed.

On top of all this; I have a friend whose daughter also was in that kind of relationship but broke it off; and he has seen his mother and another daughter come to Christ recently; after much weeping and prayer. I would venture to say that if the Rapture is near; many will come to faith in the Tribulation as well. That shock treatment may be where the vast majority of converts will come from from this millennial generation; unless He tarries much longer than seems plausible at this point.

I can think of others too that I know who are living this way; including a former pastor's sister. She survived a near death accident but apparently still is living this way; along with other issues. I also knew a high school student in the 1990s who used to be a talented honor student and musician in church and decided to succumb to those desires by her college years. That saddened me greatly.

Anyway; if you are physically able; I hope you will seek fellowship. All those outside Christ will suffer the same fate if unregenerate. All those who are His sheep will hear His voice; eventually.

Agape; Rich P

yes please / i am a born again christian and i have a son and a daughter.../ both adules.. also they are both devote gay son and a lesibian daughter she has been married to her mate for many years and they have two young daughters around 12 and 15 years old // I have tried my ways to help then // now I am 75 years old / to my knowledge there is not /not an avenue for them my children to be correctly saved and to enter heaven // this is of GREAT DISSPARE // I have been looking in scripture for some ref verses / at this point of my life if they will not understand now I know after I pass they will never never look or ask and they will not have and option later on // thank you very much and may GOD PLEASE INTERVEN FOR EVERYONE BRUCE CONNELL

I wished to elaborate as I have previously on this subject. The scriptures indicate what Christ did; while his body was in the grave and His Spirit went to the lower parts of the earth. First off; since He created all things and His work was finished when He died on the cross; He was certainly NOT suffering in hell. (Sorry the point is too important not to shout). Those who would proclaim such things are in grievous error. The scriptures indicate that He said to the thief on the cross "Today you shall be with me in Paradise." ( Luke 23:43). However; 3 days later scriptures indicate that captivity was made captive ( Psalm 68:18 says it best; it also is stated in Ephesians 4:8 and a few other places). Thus; the bodies of some saints after the Resurrection came out of their graves ( Matthew 27:52-3) and the souls of men now all go to heaven who are saved; while those lost only go to the torment section of Sheol. ( 2 Cor. 5:6). The message therefore was a declaration of victory; to the Nephilim who were bound up already for their particular sin of fornication with women ( 2 Peter 2:4) as well as to the rest of those human souls in darkness. See also Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27

This is somewhat similar to the message that will come out in the Tribulation. The Rapture may be hid to some; but the graves being opened up worldwide surely will NOT be able to be hidden. Clearly; by the sixth seal there will be no atheists. Thus; no Gospel message will be necessary to explain to the world that Jesus is Lord; but a declaration of the Kingdom about to appear on earth; and the judgments to come. In a way these events are characteristic of the end of each dispensation; when judgment is pronounced or at the very least the end of a given Kingdom or civilization when their transgressions come to the full ( Genesis 15:16).

Hi Giannis.

Part 1

As I promised I would get back to you on your reply and questioning.

Let's start with the verses you gave as the promises that Israel forfeited over to the Church.

1. Genesis 12:1-3,

2. Genesis 12:7,

3. Genesis 13:14-17,

4. Genesis 15:5-7

5. Genesis 15:13-15,

6. Genesis 15:18-21,

7. Genesis 17:4-10,

8. Genesis 21:17-18

You stated, "Abraham and his seed pass to Jesus and His children. and you say according to

Galatians 3:16. Paul atributes these verses to Christ it is obvious that they are for Israel as well.

Let's look at Galatians 3:14-17.

If you notice in the link the promise/covenant was not a land covenant. Verses 2-8 you gave are all the land covenant.

Did you notice in Genesis 15:15-17. God told Abraham he would die before they would enter the land?

Look how Stephen put in Acts 7:4-5.

"and is is after God performed the covenant!!" So when will he inherit it? Hebrews11:8-10.

Now the 1st verse is a preview of both. The Promise his seed going to be given land. "Israel"

( and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. ) "Christ"

This is the only portion associated with Galatians 3:16.

Here is the covenant Paul is speaking of in Galatians.

( And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; AND THY SEED SHALL POSSESS THE GATE OF "HIS" ENEMIES;

And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. )

Genesis 22:16-18.

The Gospel was preached even before there was a law to be broken.

Galatians 3:8.

" Important verse"

I removed "if it" because I believe it's in italics and shouldn't be there.

( Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet be confirmed, NO MAN DISANNULLETH, OR ADDETH THERETO.) Galatians 3:15.

Part 1.

DearSpencer, lets talk about God's promises to Abraham.

Lets go to Genesis. The verses that describe God's promises to Abraham are the following:

1. Genesis 12:1-3,

2. Genesis 12:7,

3. Genesis 13:14-17,

4. Genesis 15:5-7

5. Genesis 15:13-15,

6. Genesis 15:18-21,

7. Genesis 17:4-10,

8. Genesis 21:17-18

Now in most of them God gives His promises to Abraham and his seed. Who is this seed. the obvious answer is that it is his biological descedants. Paul in his epistle to Galatians 3:16 disagrees, he says "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.". So we can agree that all the promises given to Abraham and his seed pass to Jesus and His children, Which are they? The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and the 8th. Only one is left the first. You will argue that although Paul atributes those verses to Christ it is obvious that they are for Israel as well, the land covenant as you call it. You are right about that. But that promise that Cannan will be given to Israel by God wasn't fulfiled when Joshua and his descendants conquered that land? Yes it was. So what other promise/covenant given to Abraham is left to be fulfiled? I cannot see any other, correct me if I am wrong. GBU

Genesis 14:18,

Genesis 15:13,14, two Generations & 400 years, + 30 years later : Exodus 12:40,41, then the Laws were given to Moses, Exodus 28, Exodus 25,

Psalms 110:4,

Hebrews 5, Hebrews 6, Hebrews 7,

Helpful I hope

Hi Elle.

Great question., Here's a few scriptures you can look over that may have answers to your questions.I would chime in when time permits. In the meantime hopefully someone can help us.

NOTICE THE PROMISES AND COVENANT MADE BY GOD WITH NO PARTICIPATION ALLOWED BY MAN.

Genesis 15:1-12.

Genesis 17:18-19.

Romans 9:6-9.

Galatians 4:22-31.

EMPHASIS.

This Promised Covenant is the work of God and can't be annulled by man.

Likewise you see a similar method as a allegory in the birth of Jacob and Essau.

Gods elected way, "By grace ".

Romans 9:10-12. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

All for now

God bless.

Amen Richard.

Thank God for his mercies and faithfulness, He keeps his promises!

God foreknew the they would stumble when he made the promises and covenant. That's why he performed the covenant with Abraham alone.

And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:8-18.

God bless you and all you do.

In Genesis chapters 12 to 50, there is only one Covenant, that God made with Abram.

Genesis 12:1-3, the Covenant made. But of this Covenant, several 'expansions' to it were made to fully express it. And they are:

Genesis 15:18, God ratifies that Covenant in a national perspective.

Genesis 17:4-6,16, God ratifies that Covenant in an international perspective.

Genesis 17:7, God ratifies that Covenant as an Everlasting Covenant.

Genesis 17:10-14, God ratifies that Covenant by an act of circumcision (also in Stephen's message in Acts 7:8).

So, if you're thinking of these 'aspects' of the Covenant, then one can see & appreciate several Covenants. However, I believe most would deduce that only one Covenant was made with Abram, which composed of these four separate parts of the One.

Thanks GiGi. I could only learn this from referring to the Hebrew text (& translation), where in Genesis 2:4 the Hebrew clearly shows "in the day that the LORD (YHWH) God (Elohim) made the earth and the heavens". And not being a Hebrew reader, I can only read it as given, that it is 'God Who is YHWH', Who has done all these things & now communing with man & woman.

Given that the Genesis writer is generally accepted as being Moses (written between 1450 & 1410 BC), where he would have been given special grace to relate these events that he personally had not experienced, it could be that God was already showing him that 'special' connection to His people Israel, yet future, was already set in Adam & Eve.

Yet, would all those living pre-Moses (i.e. pre- Exodus 3:13,14), even know that 'special' Name? Exodus 6:3, says that the 'Name YHWH was not known to the patriarchs'. And yet we know that they were aware of it, like Abraham ( Genesis 15:7; Genesis 22:14), Jacob ( Genesis 27:20) & others knew that Name. But did they only know OF that Name but did not know Him fully, the full depth of understanding of the Name, YHWH? This debate probably still goes on. But when the children of Israel were in slavery in Egypt for over 400 years, that Name which should have been remembered & faithfully passed on, was forgotten, hence their need for an urgent reminder by Moses.

And "why should the Israelites listen to Moses & trust God?" There were four tokens of identification of this 'forgotten' God: the one of His Name ( Exodus 3:14, I AM: I've read that it is the inner meaning of YHWH - I Am the One Who Is); the one of the rod/serpent ( Exodus 4:1-5); the one of the leprous hand ( Exodus 4:6-8); & the one of the river of blood ( Exodus 4:9). I guess that any one or all of these signs should have confirmed Moses' call without any dispute & revealed to the Israelites unequivocally Who the One was Who had heard their cries & come to save them.

Hello Gitai. That's a good question, as these differences in the use of God (as a Name), can be found right through the Scriptures.

In the references you gave, we can understand & know the meaning of the various names given. In Genesis chapter 1, the author refers to God as 'God' (or, Elohim). Elohim, is a general name for the True God, as it can also be used to depict other gods (e.g. Genesis 31:30; Exodus 12:12), of angels ( Psalm 8:5), of men ( Psalm 82:6), of judges/rulers ( Exodus 21:6)). So, in relation to God's creative Work, the Name Elohim was given here. And of course, Elohim is also used of the True God elsewhere in the Bible, where creating is not signified (e.g. Genesis 35:7).

But in Genesis chapter 2 we see the use of the word, LORD (or, Yahweh), & this signifies a special revelation & a special relationship to Israel: 'Yahweh' means the active, self-existent One (as in Exodus 3:14, where the word is connected to the verb, 'to be') & also being Israel's Redeemer ( Exodus 6:6). So the use of the word, LORD, signifies this True God (Elohim) is not distant (as seen by His other Works), but is now revealed in a most personal way to Israel as LORD (Yahweh); hence combining the two words to read, LORD God. And from Genesis 2:2 onwards, this Name is used to signify the commencement of a personal interaction with His creation.

And when we read the word, 'Lord', this means 'master, lord, sovereign' (as in Genesis 15:2). Hence we can have a variety of combinations: God, LORD God, Lord God, each one depicting what the author has received from God that has to be revealed to the reader (chiefly, Israel in the OT references). And of interest, this God Who is a personal God, is also experienced in many ways in that relationship. Hence, we get compound Names of Yahweh, such Yahweh-Jireh (the God Who will see to it; or provides); Yahweh-Shalom (the God Who gives peace); & many other compound Names.