Discuss Hebrews 12 Page 6

Hi Gigi.

This is a significant portion of scripture. I would like to add a portion from the new testament.

We see here the difference between the ministration of the law and the ministration of grace.

FOR ONE THEY SANCTIFIED THERE SELVES 3 DAYS AND STILL COULDN'T APPROACH THE MOUNT. ( LAW)

Galatians 4:21-26. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Hebrews 12:18-24. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

WE'VE BEEN WASHED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. WE NOW CAN ENTER IN. (GRACE)

Hebrews 10:10-22.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

God bless.

Hi Richard. The word 'holy' in Greek is 'hagios'. And this means, 'holy, sacred, set apart'. When the word is used for those who have been saved, born again by the Spirit of God, it means that the Spirit immediately causes the believer to be marked & set apart from anything not of God & also belonging to Him alone. But can the believer just rest in that wonderful fact & then remain stagnant, careless or lethargic in his life from God? The one in whom the Spirit of God resides can never remain in such a sad state - the indwelling Lord will not permit it.

When we see important Scriptures as you shared, as in 1 Peter 1:14-16, "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy", we see a couple of things. Once our lives were lived according to our own desires & dictates from the world. Peter instructs that all that is now past because God has "called you", or, God has chosen you to receive salvation & eternal life. And if God has called & He is Holy, then our new lives lived in the Spirit will be according to the dictates of His Spirit. And He says 'don't fashion yourself to the world but to the One Who has redeemed you'. If we subject ourselves to Him, then He will direct our lives to live in a manner that is pleasing to Him. Are we then freed from sinning? If so, then we must also be free of this sinful flesh & free from the struggles of this flesh with the spirit. Since we're never promised that in this life, striving for holiness will always be the quest of the spiritual person, desiring to please the Lord Who ransomed him & be circumspect in every area of life.

Some might give up & say that this is impossible to achieve. We need to keep the Lord always in view, & 'run with patience the race that is set before us' ( Hebrews 12:1,2). The road ahead won't be smooth, but finish we must.

Advocate - 1 John 2:1

Alive for Evermore - Rev 1:18

All Knowing Psalm 139:1-6

All, and in All - Colossians 3:11

Almighty - Revelation 1:8

Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:8

Altar - Hebrews 13:10

Altogether Lovely - Song of Solomon 5:16

Amen - Revelation 3:14

Ancient of Days - Daniel 7:13 & Daniel 7:22

Anointed One - 1 Samuel 2:35

Author of Eternal Salvation - Hebrews 5:9

Author of our Faith - Hebrews 12:2

Balm of Gilead - Jeremiah 8:22

Banner over us - Ps 60:4, S of Sol 2:4

Bearer of Sin - Hebrews 9:28

Before All Things - Colossians 1:17

Beginning and Ending - Revelation 1:8

Bishop of our Souls - 1 Peter 2:25

Blessed and Only Potentate - 1 Timothy 6:15

Blessed Hope - Titus 2:13

Bread of Life, my manna - John 6:35

Bridegroom - John 3:29

Bright and Morning Star - Revelation 22:16

Brightness of His Glory - Hebrews 1:3

Buckler - Psalms 18:30

Captain - Joshua 5:14-15, Hebrews 2:10

Changeless One - Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8

Chief Among 10,000, S. of Solomon 5:10

Chosen of God - 1 Peter 2:4

Christ - Matthew 1:16 - 1 John 5:1

Comforter - John 14:16-18

Consolation of Israel - Luke 2:25

Counselor - Isaiah 9:6

Creator - Romans 1:25 - Isaiah 40:28

Crown of Glory - Isaiah 28:5

Tony:

There is flesh and blood: A BODY

There is ONE SPIRIT: IMMORTAL LIFE

Flesh and blood, the body, dies and returns to dust,

Spirit, life, CANNOT die.

Hell is a doctrine of man: If a body of flesh and blood was placed in literal fire, it would be consumed in a few minutes, there would be not eternal torment. No need for a second resurrection.

If SPIRIT (there is only ONE SPIRIT and that SPIRIT IS GOD)( Ephesians 4:4-6) was placed in literal fire, it would not be affected.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Lazarus and the rich man is a PARABLE.

Lazarus went to the bosom of Abraham, symbolic of the BORN AGAIN, being ONE with God.

The rich man went to the GRAVE, a gulf that CANNOT be passed over UNTIL the second resurrection of the DEAD back to their flesh, to be judged and brought to TRUTH.

There are TWO RESURRECTION, one has already occurred, Christ and those that were ORDAINED to have their part in that FIRST RESURRECTION.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (those CHOSEN to have their part in the first resurrection) DIE ANY MORE: for they (the CHOSEN) are equal into the ANGELS; and are the children of God, being the children of the (FIRST) resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection ......

The second resurrection TO JUDGEMENT, has not yet occurred BUT:

Isaiah 26:9 ...For when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth (second resurrection) the inhabitants of the world will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

1 Timothy 4:10 ...for we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those in the second resurrection), specially those (in the first resurrection) who believe.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature (man) WAITETH (second resurrection) for the manifestation of the Sons of God (first resurrection).

Romans 8:21 Because the creature (man) ITSELF shall ALSO be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (the GRAVE) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

God Bless YOU!

Mark 16:15 | View whole chapter

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

We all need to remember that Jesus said this to all of His followers. Everyone can participate in some kind of capacity. If you can't go, be part of intercessory prayer groups to pray for those that do go. Fund the missionaries your church sends out.

Give an offering to God__and bless those who need Bible tracts as they go minister on the streets of your city.

Figure out what part of the Body of Christ you are. I'm his feet. Hear the call.

Bible...King James ...pray , study ,reach out , learn from experiences... Trust in the Lord with all your heart...( Prov. 3:5-7) .God Bless !

Brother James, God's will is that all men come to LIFE and TRUTH.

I have a question?

What do you do when you depart this body of flesh? When only the spirit remains.

Hebrews 12:23 ....and to the spirits of just men made perfect....

Some of these men (apostles) were made perfect 2000 years ago; what have they been doing for 2000 years?

John 13:36 ....Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now (while you are in the flesh); but thou shall follow me afterwards (when only the spirit remains).

Christ is IN CREATION, (as the Holy Ghost), giving creation LIFE and bringing creation to TRUTH:

Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT ...

Ephesians 4:6 There is ONE GOD, and FATHER OF ALL...

God is LIFE and TRUTH.

When you leave this flesh and only spirit remains, you are ONE with GOD, ONE SPIRIT, ONE LIFE, ONE TRUTH.

Revelation 10:11 .....thou (John, also you as a ministering spirit) must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

John told the disciples to go unto ALL THE NATIONS preaching the kingdom of God; this is only possible after you become a spirit of a just man MADE PERFECT.

The IMAGE OF GOD.

GOD is SPIRIT.

God Bless YOU!

These verses by David show God's design before birth (verse 5-6) as well as in the future whether in heaven or hell (verse 8). There are some who would read the verses in Jonah and indicate that indeed he was dead under the earth (with his body remaining in the whale but his soul in sheol) in Jonah 2:6. The passages referring to the lowest hell being underneath the mountains also exist in Deut. 32:22.

Whatever the actual case in Jonah; for God's CHOSEN people He is certainly with them and cannot escape His presence. What is different; of course with believers and those NOT written in the Book of Life is that any grace is withdrawn; all are naked in Sheol for the wicked ( Job 26:6). For now; captivity has been taken captive; and there is no compartment anymore for the righteous in hell; for to be "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8); see also Eph. 4:8; Psalm 68:18. Verses 15-18 continue to describe God's foreknowledge and unlimited wisdom. Immediately after this; there is an impreccatory section in v. 19-22; followed by David's plea to discipline or chastise Him at the end of the Psalm to remove any wickedness; which He does to prune all of His saints. ( Hebrews 12:6; Rev. 3:19).

In order to have such an attitude of perfect love and perfect HATRED; we need to have His perfect righteousness. Therefore; we learn to love what He loves (which is against the flesh and it's desires); and hate what He hates as the Spirit and His Word reveal to us. It is not sinners themselves but sin in general as well as the god of this world that are our enemies. This will come when Isaiah 24:21 is fulfilled. David had his faults; but He spent much time meditating and praising the Lord and was himself a humble man from the start. When he did sin; he would acknowledge it without resistance when confronted with it. Without Nathan the prophet and God's chastisement with the census who knows how much more debased David could have become

Ephesians 2:8-9 Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Response- Yes, by grace we've been saved (past tense). We're told in the next verse that we're made for the purpose of good works. This gives evidence to genuine change in heart & we need to guard our heart (ref. Heb. 3: 12) That's why we can look to Rom 2:6-7 " Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:" You can see from this text that salvation starts at the moment we believe on Christ, but, is not a 1x event. It is a lifelong walk. (Reference Rom. 6: 16 & Gal. 6: 7-9)

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Response- John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they FOLLOW me (present continuous tense). Those who actively follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. John 10:28 is such a blessing to know that no one can take me out of the love of Christ, but, even as Jude warns we are to keep ourselves in the love of Christ.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Response- Heb. 12:8 teaches how God corrects His children with the objective of bringing the backsliding back on the strait & narrow. However, we still have a free will and need to come back on our own. Ref. James 5:19-20; 2 Chron. 15: 2)

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Response- 1 Cor. 5:5 is talking about casting a sinner out of the church, as they could bring grave sin, hence a little leaven leaven the lump. Not a OSAS verse. See 1 Cor. 10: 7-12; 1 Cor. 15: 1-2

We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved it we endure to the end in Christ

Please note it starts: Hebrews 12:1, "Wherefore seeing we also ._.._"

Indicates this is connected to another statement. Please read Hebrews 11, then read Hebrews 12, together for better conext. Actually I believe starting with Hebrews 10:36-39, into Hebrews 11, continuing to Hebrews 12. Will give a more complete understanding of what's written.

Please remember the division in chapters & verses didn't exist when these Bible Books/Letters were written

Hopefully this is helpful in your study

Ephesians 2:8-9 for by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourself. It is the gift of and not of works lest any man should boast.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hebrews 12:29

For our God is a consuming fire.

Deuteronomy 4:24

For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Remember the movie 10 commandments? Moses saw the burning bush, which was not consumed?

Revelation 12:4 apparently. Also check out Hebrews 12:22; and Matthew 25:41.

Some thoughts: Angels were WITH God at the creation; hence they saw everything. God has NO redemption for them. How much they were aware of the consequences of their rebellion is unclear. Praise God that we do NOT see such things. Praise God that God didn't let Adam go on in his FALLEN state without removing the tree of life which would have sealed him forever in that state-and that He had a redemption plan for man as Genesis 3:15 indicates. Of course we don't have any listing of Adam in the "hall of saints" of Hebrews 11.

We have the apparent corruption of the seed of men mentioned in Genesis 6 and likely that will be repeated with some DNA alteration with the mark of the beast. It would seem; anyway that the demon rising out of the pit (Apollyon) will possess Antichrist; who in turn will decieve ALL those not in the Book of Life with some promise of utopia or eternal existence. My point here is that day and night the devil never sleeps ( Rev. 12:10; and 1 Peter 5:8-9). He uses the minds of natural men and the desires of the world to decieve ( Matt. 16:23). This verse is sobering; because it shows that our natural desire to live must be superceded by dying to self and for Him if necessary. It also reflects what on the surface would seem to e a sympathetic statement by Peter who couldn't concieve of Christ as Lord (which the Spirit apparently revealed to him right before that) having to go through that. His natural mind was like the others who became exceedingly sad and tuned out these hard sayings.

Jesus; mercifully reasurred Peter that after he converted that he would also strengthen his brethren. ( Luke 22:31-32). This probably refers to the state at Pentecost after he was transformed. Jesus alluded to this after asking 3 times if he loved Him (using different terms for love). He thus went where he didn't want to go. We must also walk in the Spirit. Agape.

Loretta:

Angels are Spirit; but they have GLORIFIED BODIES.

They (angels) are MEN MADE PERFECT, by

The SPIRIT and LIFE and POWER of the FATHER; but with the Body of CHRIST.

Christ was the first man.

Christ was the first angel.

Christ is also the Holy Ghost;

A man (an angel) that is SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH, with a glorified body.

Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE SPIRIT (the Father) and ONE BODY (the Christ).

Judges 6:21 Then the Angel (Christ appeared in the flesh, as a man) of the Lord (the Father) put forth the staff that was in his hand, and touched the FLESH and UNLEAVEND CAKES; AND THERE ROSE UP OUT OF THE ROCK (CHRIST IS THE ROCK) FIRE (our God is a consuming fire Hebrews 12:29) and CONSUMED the FLESH and THE UNLEAVENED CAKES, then the angel of the Lord departed out of his sight (he took on the form of the Holy Ghost, a man in a glorified body).

Isaiah 63:9 .... and the angel (Christ) of HIS PRESENCE (the Father; SPIRIT) SAVED THEM ......

Keep studying, it take lots of time to find all the HIDDEN TRUTH in God's word.

God Bless You!

Pardon me. That should be Hebrews 12:14, not 12:4.

Page 2.

Be strengthened & comforted dear one, that the Lord is mindful of what you're going through & will give you grace to bear up or give you a way around them. Search out good company with a good moral standing or even believers that you can pray with. Share what you're going through with your teacher or principal & leave the matter with them.

Hebrews 12:4, "Follow peace with all men"; Matthew 5:44; & I would leave you with Matthew 5:11-16. May the Lord be very near to you & give you strength & wisdom during those times of trial.

Sharon:

People don't go to heaven, flesh and blood CAN NOT inherit the kingdom of GOD.

Man, thru TRUTH, is changed into the IMAGE of CHRIST.

This is the good news of the gospel, we are going to be the LIKENESS OF CHRIST.

At present Christ is in the form of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of the Father, abiding IN MAN, bring creation to TRUTH.

By coming to Truth; the SECOND COMING of Christ, as the Holy Ghost, teaching you from WITHIN, man is transformed by the renewing of their mind: into the LIKENESS OF CHRIST.

When we depart this body of flesh we are instantly in the PRESENCE OF THE HOLY GHOST, THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST.

Christ knows all men, therefore you also will know all men, because you have become ONE WITH CHRIST.

John 13:36 ....Whether I go, thou canst not follow me now (flesh and blood, CAN NOT), but thou shall follow me afterwards (when you depart this body of flesh and only THE SPIRIT REMAINS, by TRUTH, you have become ONE WITH THE SPIRIT.

Hebrews 12:23 ....and to the SPIRITS of of just men MADE PERFECT (having their being IN CHRIST).

God Bless You!

Hebrews 12:1 continues, "Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." Because of the faith and endurance of believers who went before us, we are inspired to stay the course in our own race of faith. We follow the examples of Abraham and Moses and Rahab and Gideon and etc.

Some people point to the rich man's mention of his brothers in Luke 16:28 as proof that departed souls (in Hades, at least) can see events on earth. However, the passage never says that the rich man could see his brothers; he knew he had brothers, and he knew they were unbelievers. Also, some people use Revelation 6:10 as a proof text: the tribulation martyrs call for God to avenge their deaths. Again, this passage says nothing about the martyrs seeing people on earth; it simply says that they knew they deserved justice and desired the Lord to take action.

The Bible doesn't specifically say that people in heaven cannot look down on us, so we can't be dogmatic. However, it is unlikely that they can. People in heaven are likely preoccupied with other things such as worshiping God and enjoying the glories of heaven.

Whether or not people in heaven can look down and see us, we are not running our race for them. We are not hoping for their approval or listening for their applause. Hebrews 12:2 keeps our focus where it belongs: "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." Jesus is our blessed hope, no other ( Titus 2:13).

I think it's better to address our hopes and concerns to Jesus. Who ever lives to make intercessions for us.

Mishael

GiGi, I don't think you understand:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come (the day of the Lord, when man can be created in the IMAGE OF CHRIST) that judgement must began at the house of the Lord (YOU and I and all God's creation is the HOUSE OF THE LORD)....

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ a son over his own house; whose house we are (the temple of God) ....

Remember Christ drove the money changers out of the TEMPLE with a WHIP.

All creation is God's temple and God is going to CLEANSE HIS TEMPLE.

Christ was INSIDE that temple made with hands when he drove out the unsavory.

Christ (in the form of the Holy Ghost) is still inside the TEMPLE MADE WITHOUT HANDS (CREATION), along with those that have come to truth that they also will be the exactness of Christ, in the form of the Holy Ghost) bring man into TRUTH, that you are the image of God.

Paul, Peter, and everyone that has left their body of flesh and become one with God; and God is Spirit, are now in MEN, judging the world.

Proverbs 16:6 By MERCY and TRUTH (God is mercy and truth, so are the saints that are judging the world

with Christ, as ministering spirits) INIQUITY IS PURGED .....

Psalms 104:4 Whom maketh his angels (ministering) spirits, his ministers a flame of FIRE.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God (God is Spirit) is a consuming fire.

God Bless You!

This is a fascinating thing. I heard a sermon one time saying the words spoken about "if someone sees the face of GOD they cannot live" he said "they cannot live, the same" Is this the question you're looking deeper into? Genesis 32:20,30, Exodus 33:11, Exodus 34:28-30,35,

It would be very interesting to do a study on the words. Exodus 3:6, Exodus 33:20,23, Numbers 6:25, Deuteronomy 5:1-5, Deuteronomy 31:17,18, Deuteronomy 32:20, Deuteronomy 34:10, Judges 6:22, 1Kings 13:6, 1Chronicles 16:11, 2Chronicles 7:14, 2Chronicles 30:9, Psalms 13:1, Psalms 17:5, Psalms 22:24, Psalms 105:4, Isaiah 54:8, Isaiah 59:2, Jeremiah 21:10, Ezekiel 20:35,

Perhaps it's the word "man" that the emphasise is. Romans 8:14, Galatians 4:6, Hebrews 12:7, John 1:12, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1,2 , 1John 4:15, How sad it is when a living father says "see his face no more" or turns his face.

Genesis 3:8-10, interestingly, in this translation it says they heard "the voice of the LORD" they "hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God"

What's amazing is: Genesis 4:16, it appears even though they were cast out of the garden GOD's presence was still with them.

Psalms 139, Job 4:15,

Hopefully this is helpful

Thanks brother. Your words, from the Word of God, ought to strike our hearts with a searing iron. It certainly does mine especially when I read some comments that are so far removed from the Truth, prompting others to believe a lie.

Many forget that the Gospel of the Cross is two-fold: one of propitiation ( 1 John 2:2: to provide a means for atonement & forgiveness by God, as well as to avert God's Anger against the sinner); and one requiring a response ( Romans 10:13,14). If the Gospel fails in both conditions, then there can be no salvation - we are forever lost in our sins. Though I've sought an answer to this several times in the past, without a response, I can only understand that there are some who believe in the first part (of God's Forgiveness), but the second part is almost inconsequential. And why so? For God is All-Loving, All-Forgiving, & all men will eventually be saved (a Universalism teaching). Why then the need for repentance in this life? Why did the apostles hazard their lives, even laying them down for the Gospel, if those enemies of the Cross would be changed & accepted by God in the last day? Where does the Bible ever speak about a 'second-chance salvation'? Why should the believer ever be called upon to live holy separated lives unto God if even the unrepentant will be saved?

And then some consider us as believers in a vengeful angry God. And yet we have the Scriptures: Matthew 7:13; John 3:36; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 12:25,29; & many more showing that here is a God Who is to be feared & none can stand guiltless in His Presence. Thank you again for bringing this to light brother - it may be that others will be able to differentiate between the true & false Gospels.

Hi Bruce.

Perhaps these verses.

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:1-2.

Hi Thelma. In this small section in Hebrews 12:22-24, we see the Hebrews writer describing the view of Heaven as it should appear to all believers in Christ. The other view, vv 18-21, was of Mt. Sinai, where the old Law was given accompanied with magnificent sights, fires, thunders, & severe punishment for any who came close to it.

As Christians, Mt. Sinai has no bearing on us, where the Judgement of God was ready to pour out on the disobedient. Now our view is of Mt. Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, where judgement is passed & only worship, praise, & thanksgiving given to the Lord God & to His Son Jesus Christ. And why is this so? Because all in Heaven now (aside from the heavenly beings), are those of the redeemed of the Lord: the general assembly (all believers from all over the world are represented); the Church of the firstborn (I think implies the early Church built upon Christ & the apostles); the spirits of just men made perfect (again, all believers made just & holy through Christ, & are now perfected (all stain of sin & corruption finally removed)). And of course in verse 24, "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"; the Lamb of God who now sits at the right Hand of the Father, as the One Who through His Blood & ushering in of the New Covenant of Grace, will always be our view in this glorious heavenly vista.

And the chapter goes on to remind those in the Church on Earth to serve God with reverence & godly fear because of all that Jesus has attained for us & by the witnesses around the Throne - those who have been redeemed from the Earth & living in continual worship & praise to the One Who gave Himself for us. But there was this warning, as in other parts of Hebrews, to those who were not true believers, who despised the Truth & trying to infect others with their teachings, bringing in their own message - they would not escape God's Wrath.

Suze: It sounds like from your post that Christ has already come the second time.

Hebrews 9:27 And it is appointed unto man (sinful flesh) once to die, but after this judgement (rightfully dividing the word of God, which is truth).

Psalms 37:28 For the Lord loveth judgement ..........

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered (in the flesh, as sinful flesh) to bear the sins of many (all); and unto them that look for him he shall appear the SECOND TIME (as the Holy Ghost)(as a thief in the night) without sin unto salvation.

Psalms 116:15 Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death (on the cross, as sinful flesh) of his saints.

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise ....

Christ arose to a new body that is immortal, as you died with him, you also arose with him, Christ is LIFE and TRUTH, when you depart this fleshly body all that remains is LIFE and TRUTH, as you bear the image of the earthly you will bear the image of the heavenly.

He who is born of spirit IS SPIRIT.

God is Spirit.

Spirit is all the things that can't be seen, life, faith, love, mercy, truth, wisdom, understanding, knowledge, etc.

You will be the image of Christ, because Christ is the image of God.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 ...for all things are yours ...and ye are Christ's and Christ is God's.

Christ is in creation bringing creation to truth, when you join him you will be doing the same thing.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God (SPIRIT) the Judge of all, and to the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT.

Revelation 10:11 And he (spirit of Christ) said unto me (John) thou (John) prophesy again (as the image of Christ, working in creation, as a ministering spirit) before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

John 1:51 ....Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels (messenger's) of God ascending and descending upon the son of man.

GBU on our quest for truth.

Ray, man is a BODY made from dust.

God is LIFE, God is SPIRIT, therefore Spirit is life.

Job 34:14 If he (SPIRIT) set his (Spirit's) heart upon man, if he (Spirit) gather unto himself his (God's) spirit and his (God's) breath;

Job 34:15 ALL FLESH shall perish together, and man shall turn again into dust.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that the Lord is God of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands,

Acts 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he GIVETH TO ALL life, and breath, and ALL THINGS;

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations to dwell on the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.

Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY (the vessel that holds life) and one Spirit (the life in the vessel)....

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father OF ALL, who is above ALL, and through ALL, and IN YOU ALL.

Hebrews 12:23 ... and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT,

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (LIFE, TRUTH) that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

We are just the vessel that holds God (Life, Truth). Life and Truth cannot die, so when this body of flesh dies Christ gives us HIS BODY. We are joined in union with Christ.

1 Timothy 6:16 ...Who only hath immortality .....

1 Corinthians 15:53 ... and this mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY ......

Just now read your response, thank you brother!

Dear

Rebecca,

The fact that you want to accept Jesus and are desiring salvation is proof that the Holy Spirit is working in You to create faith that will enable you to believe. So, rejoice Rebecca, God is calling and He is the author and finisher of our faith ( Hebrews 12:2) and having begun this good work within you, God is also faithful to complete it unto salvation for your whole being. ( Philippians 1:6)

Rebecca, I do not know how you are struggling, since you said you are in a spiritual battle. But I do not that Jesus has won victory for all of us ( 1John 5:4). All that you really need to do is just tell Jesus that you need His help in having faith to believe in Him. He will answer this request. You can begin walking as a believer even if your faith is small right now.

Keep on asking Jesus to increase Your faith and help You know Him more and more each day.

You can meet with a pastor and ask to be baptized. (Matthew28:19-20) which normally follows one's believing and confession to acknowledge that you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior.

Reading the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are a very good way to get to know Jesus. I encourage you to read ALL about Him in these Bible books and then move on to Acts.

Rebecca,

I will pray for you today. Dear Lord Jesus, here is Rebecca desiring You and the salvation You won for her. Fill her with Your Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit, cause Rebecca to be born again and create in her true faith to believe the Gospel of Jesus. Heavenly Father, Shed Your love and mercy upon Rebecca and draw her near to You. May today begin her new life with You as Your daughter. Dear God, You are amazing and will never turn away anyone who comes to You humbly seeking forgiveness for their sins and to turn away from sinful tendencies in repentance. Thank you that we cannot do anything to earn our salvation nor can we do anything to acquire it. It is already done for us by Your work of grace. Help Rebecca to really know this.

Greetings Janet,

I hear ya! I feel you! We all go through the same things at various times. The key is to "endure"; stay focused on the Word and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, trusting Him and not your own understanding or that of others. Just STAND on what you believe and what you know. The rest will come as needed.

I recommend you stay in the King James Bible as much as possible. These perversions that pass fir Scripture today should be burned.

I have left churches for the same reason that you contemplate. I can't tell you to leave your church; that is something you must work out with the Spirit. I will say that many are vexed by the teaching of these versions but don't understand why. You seem to understand why.

Let the Spirit lead and don't fear change if needed! You are stronger and wiser than you know when do.

Stay in the Word and stay blessed.

Thank you for the encouragement to not overthink things-as I find myself at such unrest when I do.

I am in the word and am beyond grateful for more time to study the word now that I am retired.

Since I have been studying more, several things have come my way.

The question of saved vs being saved, also the differences in Bible translations.

The church I go to uses the NIV, which I am now wondering about as the NIV says being saved vs saved, being sanctified vs sanctified.

Oh boy, how can there be so much division or differing interpretations!

It is very important, in fact nothing else matters beyond knowing Gods truth, for we are to go and tell the world about Him and his one true gospel. We are to be one in Christ!

So do I leave my church and find another where they use a translation that preaches saved vs being saved?

Thanks ahead of time

Hi John.

The things you say you are lacking is listed in the fruit of the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-25. It's not something we can manifest.

This may not come by motivational speakers or mere teachings although they're profitable as a seed already planted needing water for edification.

However it takes a belief in who all the scripture is written about. "Jesus". We have peace in his faithfulness, Not ours.

Hebrews 13:5-6.

Hebrews 12:1-2.

Romans 8:28-39.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Spiritual growth comes by feeding, hearing, believing. 1 Peter 2:2.

God bless