Discuss Hebrews 1 Page 4

Chris,

Not a problem my brother. I'm glad I can share something of value here and there. This means a lot coming from you, and you have helped me more than you know with the vast wealth of knowledge you share with all of us here. I doubt it was Paul for the very reason I spoke of. But I also cannot stand against anyone who wants to say Paul wrote it because we just don't know! I really can't say yes or no. I do think that (if) it was Paul, he would have put his inscription at the beginning, as he did with the other 13 letters that he penned!

Blessings to you and thank you so much for all you share here!!!

Thanks for that brother Jesse. I had missed Hebrews 2:3, as far as noting that the certainty of Paul being the writer was made weaker by this verse: "confirmed unto us by them that heard Him." Whoever the writer was, certainly was led of the Spirit to be able to pen such great Truths & give a clear defence of the faith, from all the Scripture given.

Hello Tessie,

The author of Hebrews is unknown. There are several people who have been named as possible authors. Paul is the most common one but we have nothing to prove that it was Paul.

It would seem odd that it would be Paul because we know for sure that Paul wrote 13 letters (Romans through Philemon), because Paul put his inscription at the beginning of every one of those letters. It would seem odd that he would not do the same if he wrote Hebrews.

Here's something that causes me to think it was not Paul. Whoever wrote the letter to the Hebrews was a second generation Christian and did not hear from the Lord directly, which Paul did.

It says in Hebrews 2:3, "how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him."



So whoever wrote Hebrews did not hear the Lord directly, nor did he receive from the Lord directly (which Paul did), but received and was confirmed and established for us (the writer being one of them) by those that heard Him.



Paul is a possibility but doubtful. Others who have been named as possible writers are Barnabas, Luke, or Apollos.

So if someone wants to believe it was Paul, any of the other possibilities, we can neither confirm nor deny because we just don't know and we cannot prove one way or another.

The apostle Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. Hopefully this helps Tessie! God bless!

Who wrote Hebrew

To anyone reading my post, I mistakenly typed Hebrews 1:1. Please disregard as I am speaking about Hebrews 11:1.

Gerald,

Hebrews 1:1 is a description of faith, not a definition of faith. The only definition is found in the meaning of the word itself.



In the Greek text, ( Hebrews 1:1), this is a description of what faith does. The description of faith is two things: The substance, or basis of things hoped for, and the evidence, more literally conviction, of things not seen.



Now if I take this description of what faith does, and its definition of persuasion, that faith is the basis of things hoped for, why do I have hope for the coming of Christ?



Why do I have a living hope that one day when I die, I'm going to go to heaven? Either it's something that I am persuading myself to believe, which means there's a possibility that someday someone will persuade me not to believe.



Or, my hope is based upon, which the next phrase says, the conviction of things not seen. It's a conviction. That's a persuasion! It's not a definition, but describes what faith does.



There are times when we as human beings doubt what the bible says. Have you ever had those moments when you look over at the bible and you think "It's just a book?"



I mean you open it up and it has ink words in it. It didn't fall down from heaven, somebody printed it. How do I know that it's not just our western culture religious book? Other religions have their book, so what's the big deal?



But I can't get away from it. It's a conviction. I can stand before you right now and make the announcement that I am denouncing the Lord and His word, and I'm finished.



But I will never be able to get away from Him, never! I have never been able to get away from it, and I can't now! My beliefs are based on the conviction of God's Spirit that lives in me. That's faith. It's not my faith. My human faith waivers.



But when I look down deep, there's something there that is a stabilizing force that is the basis of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen, spiritual things, spiritual truth.

To the church of Laodocia listen to what the Spirit says .

We are living in the Laodocian age . Of a church that thinks it is rich increased in goods and in need of nothing .

Yet in Gods eyes is poor wretched and blind and in need of eye salve .

Alongside this church is the Philadelphian church that in its own eyes is poor but in Gods eyes is rich .

There is but one church which is His body . There is then but one door .

How is it then that after the resurrection No door was a barrier to the Lord . But here he is knocking on the door of his own church and is unwilling ( you cannot say unable) to enter .

Some may think their church is the only church to which all must belong to be saved others they are part of that church which is his body and claim they are saved . The fact remains the Lord is outside knocking . While all those inside think he is inside?

God is everywhere for He is indeed omnipresent . Then who is outside? It is the Spirit of God .

The knocking on the door must be a call to repentance to the whole church . To all who are inside .

The promise however is only to those " who have ears to hear " not only that but who also " open the door " to THEM is the promise given.

Even as John 3:16 is a call to the whole world to repent but the promise is only given to those who do and believe .( in the biblical sense) .

The prosperity message ,the plethora of false prophets and apostles parading about Christendom shows we are in the last days .

If when Jesus on the way to Golgotha said to some women weeping for him " if they do this to the master when the wood is green,what will they do when the wood is dry?

Hebrews 1:1 states " hath in these last days spoken to us by His Son"

If 2000 years ago it was " the last days " then truly the wood was green . How much the more is the wood now dry and ready for the fire?

Hello Peggy. You could look up the following Scriptures on Jesus Christ's Deity (i.e. God's fullness found in Jesus ( Colossians 2:9) & in His Holy Spirit). Jesus' Deity is proved by:

a. His Names: Hebrews 1:8, John 20:28 (God); Matthew 16:16, Matthew 26:61-65 (the Son of God); Matthew 22:41-46 (Lord); Revelation 19:13 (Word of God); Revelation 19:16 (King of kings and Lord of lords).

b. His Characteristics: Matthew 28:18 (Omnipotence: all powerful); Luke 6:8, John 2:24,25, John 13:11 (Omniscience: all knowing); Matthew 18:20 (Omnipresence: present in any place); John 1:4 (Life); John 14:6 (Truth); Hebrews 13:8 (Immutability: unchanging); 1 Timothy 3:16, John 1:1-14 (God manifest in the flesh in Jesus).

c. His Works: John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 (creates); Colossians 1:17 (sustains); Luke 7:48,49 (forgives sin); John 11:41-44 (raises the dead); John 5:27 (judges); John 15:26 (sends the Holy Spirit).

d. His receiving Worship: Hebrews 1:6 (from angels); Revelation 5:11-13 (from other heavenly beings); Matthew 14:33 (from men); Philippians 2:10 (from all).

e. His equality within the Triune God: John 14:23, John 10:30-33 (with the Father); Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14 (with the Father and the Spirit).

I hope you can see from these few Scriptures that Jesus was not just a special Man or Prophet sent by God, but truly was "God manifested in the flesh". No other man before Jesus' coming, during, or after His leaving this Earth, could ever fully reflect God's Glory, Wisdom & Power. Only God could - and He did this by sending us His Word, made Him a Man, so that He could give His Life as full payment for our sins - but only to those who believe this & place their trust in Him. To some, the 'Trinity' teaching is abominable. But man's salvation depends on the Divine Person of the Lord Jesus Christ - that God could accept no other Sacrifice to redeem & secure people to Himself - only by giving fully of Himself, which is true love for all.

Hi Mark. My understanding of Matthew 1:18-23, is that the angel, in a dream, told Joseph that he should take Mary to be his wife and the child that will be born from her is to be named "Jesus". So, the angel didn't give the name 'Emmanuel' to Joseph.

Then Matthew confirms that this would happen because of the prophecy that went before Jesus (i.e. in Isaiah 7:14), that His Name will be called, Immanuel. So, it seems that Matthew is giving further proof from prophecy that what the Holy Spirit was about to do was entirely from God and not man - i.e. Jesus would be Immanuel, God with us. So, Jesus is His Name, but Immanuel explains His Origin and Coming to the World.

Hey Mark.

Matthew 1:23 is a quote from Isaiah 7:14 a prophecy of the coming of the Messiah. In Matthew 1:25 we see Joseph named Him JESUS. The Hebrew name is Yehoshua the shorter Yeshua, a Greek form of Joshua a derivative of the word Hoshea meaning Yahweh saves.

His name became Iesous in Greek because of the Greek alphabet and from there to Latin, so the modern name Jesus comes from the Latin word Iesus which does not mean hail Zeus. If we call and pray in the name of the English word Jesus, I think God understands what we are saying. I am sure in all the other languages in the world there are many names for our savior.

Some things have entered into traditions and interpretations, but this is not one of them.

Hope this helps.

God bless,

RLW

Why was Emmanuel's' name changed to "Jesus"? When Joseph was told by an angel that his virgin wife would give birth to a child, and that child would be called "Emmanuel", meaning "God with us". It is my understanding that the name "Jesus" is just another form of the name 'Zeus' --a Greek pagan God. Thanks

Interestingly this site has the 1611 version. It doesn't include that book. However I've heard of a version approximately 150+ years later that may have included that book. Is that a book added to scripture as warned about? Deuteronomy & Revelation 22:19,

By simple surface study, it seems not to be in the Bible before or after & debated as not GOD's WORD.

I myself stay away from it because some things I've heard say in it, contradict Bible scripture. If you're in question read Tobit in 1611, Philippians 2, Romans 8:14, Hebrews 1:13,14, Matthew 22:30,

I humbly recommend to you, please read the Word within Genesis to Revelation, study get to know the scriptures well, ask for wisdom James 1:5 & discerment of Truth before looking into the other, if you do at all

Hopefully these are helpful in your searching

Hebrews 1, Matthew 18:10,

But importantly please know it's Jesus & The Holy Spirit that intercede on our behalf, note Hebrews 1:14, Romans 8, Hebrews 7:22-26, John 16:23,27,

Duncan:

All the things in Matthew 24 have been taking place since Christ, in the flesh, departed this earth and 45 days latter came the second time as the Holy Ghost.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that has been, it is that which shall be, and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The last days have been since Christ, still going 2000 years latter: and the LAST DAYS will continue till all things have been put under his feet.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these LAST DAYS spoken to us by his Son ...

Genesis 49:1 .....that I may tell you what shall befall you in the LAST DAYS.

Micah 4:1 But in the LAST DAYS it shall come to pass, (this was fulfilled at Christ's resurrection) that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and people shall flow into it.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued to him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him who put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end (to Jacob's troubles), when he shall have DELIVERED UP THE KINGDOM TO GOD, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule, and all authority and power.

God Bless You!

True God: ( 1 John 5:20) - This is a direct assertion that Jesus, being the true God, is not only divine, but is the Divine. Because the Bible says there is only one God, this is describing His nature as part of the triune God.

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." The Son is called "God."

I Am: ( John 8:58, with Exodus 3:14) - When Jesus ascribed to Himself this title, the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

2 Pet. 1:1 "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:"

"our God and our Saviour"

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Severe penalty for denying Jesus.

Matthew 10:22, 2 Thessalonians 2:10.

Events seem to be GOD's timing = Noah Genesis 6,7, Abraham 14 generations, to David as references in Matthew 1:17, including within those 400+ years in Egypt, Abraham himself being old before birth of Isaac. & Genesis 15:16.

Revelation 6:9,10,11, Revelation 17:14-17, James 5:7,

it appears to me that the final martyr of GOD's beloved, will ignite. Like the other events in the written Word.

Hebrews 1:13, Matthew 24, Mark 13,

As a loving Father, HE appears to be balancing the mercy of HIS will, that none should perish of the people; Matthew 18:14, 2Peter 3:1-18, & mercy for HIS children, Hebrews 11:6-40,

All of the Spirits are individual and unique and they all have names....They have to be born just like ppl are born via a seed a spiritual seed the living words of God....God himself is a spirit and man is made after the order and image of God....As God is a consuming fire Hebrews 1:7 ....A H.G. fire as Jesus said he came to bring fire on the earth but its not a fire like we know it....Its a spritual fire as God is Spirit but he is also a consuming fire...And of the Angels he saith he makes his angels ministers and his angels a flame of fire Hebrews 1 :7 kjv. Angels have no F.M...gender..But Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit so spirits can be born in us via his seed the living word is the seed of God....Thats y Jesus was saying to whom the word came ( his seed the LIVING word ) it made them Gods...Both Jesus and the H.G. CAN REGENERATE THEM SELVES IN HUMANITY....Thus there is an Israel of God on the Horizon... Gal. 6:16 kjv....Which is the H.G. the children of Promise....A Kingdom....Unless you receive the Kingdom of GOD AS A LIL CHILD... A spiritual Child is gonna be born in us....You will in no wise enter there in...She brought forth a manchild that is gona rule all nations...Which is the H.G. that Child of Promise... Baby CHRIST....A new INNERMAN WHICH IS SPIRIT...A new heart and newspriit...Which is that New COVENANT I WILL KNOW THEM ALL AN INTIMACY

......27 times in the O.T. The Prophets saw the world in travail and birth pains.....Thats y he has to KNOW us, there has to be an intimacy that results in this New Birth....Of Christ in us the hope of Glory....When Jesus breathe on them he was KNOWING them as his words are his seeds....And Isaiah says that this KNOWLEDGE ( THIS INTIMACY ) is gonna cover the earth as the waters cover the seas.....Thats y Jeremiah saw all the world in Travail and birth pains....Why do i see all men with their hands on their loins as woman in travail....Its a time of Jacobs troubles that heavenly Jacob the H.G...

Dear Brother Giannis,

The true believers walk in the Spirit of God. We are in the Kingdom of God here on earth. When we study the WORD, we use 2 Timothy 2:15 to rightly divide the word of truth. We do not put in vain what Jesus did in the cross. We are sealed and we are going to heaven. While on the flesh we try not to sin to please God. But we are still in the flesh we will still sin if you let your flesh overcome the spirit that is in you. We die daily, but we are saved. God has spoken to people in divers manner in past times to the Jews and Prophets Hebrews 1:1. The book of James has a physical messages for the Jews and spiritual messages for the Gentiles. Salvation is sealing yourself to God. After you are sealed you do the work God the Spirit tells you to do. It is not you who is doing the good work. It is God in you that does all the good work Otherwise if you are the one who is doing the good work you just put yourself in vanity and that is what I called do gooders. Do gooders do good work to please men.unlike true believers do good work because God the Spirit help them to do good work to please God and Glorify God. God completed everything when He died on the cross and we do not put that act of grace in vain. The people who are saved have faith in God. Their faith do not need work because Jesus did it all. No true believer in the blood can claim and pat themselves in the back and say Lord I did good work on earth so I deserve to go to heaven. True believer says Lord I am a sinner and I thank God He sent His only begotten son to die for me instead of me going to hell. Your grace o Lord is sufficient to save me from this evil world. I confess I sin against your Holy name I am so sorry. With the help of the Holy Spirit I will listen to do your will and not my will to be holy until you come and meet you in the cloud to heaven. While we are in the body we always remember 2 Corinthians 5:1-21 andallversesinthebiblethatappliesincurrentsituation

Why did GOD destroy the earth except Noah & his family = reply : Genesis 6:5,6,7,8,

Please read again Genesis 6, look back to Genesis 4:26, Genesis 5, Job 1:5,6, Job 1:20-22 continues to Job 2:1, John 1:12, Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Hebrews 1:4,5,6,7

Angels aren't Sons of GOD 1Corinthians 6:3,

In KJV 1611 Tobit 3, Tobit 7, Tobit 12, are the only thing even close & there was not what you stated in these scriptures. Mark 12:25, notice the scriptures here are relevant to Tobit; Mark 12:18-25,

Hopefully these are helpful

Ronnie,

God has sent angels to bring messages to men. There are accounts of this occurring throughout the history recorded in the Bible.

But in Hebrews 1:2 it says that in these last days, God has spoken to us through His Son, Jesus. And the Gospels record His life and words as the Holy Spirit led them to record for us. The Epistles are from the apostles.

It is certainly possible that God could send an angel to someone with a message, as in the book of Revelations, John was visited by Jesus and angels, but history since then does not record this occurring often (if at all) with a holy angel. But the Scriptures do say that Satan reveals himself as an angel of light. And I think that most occurrences of a visit by and angel is just this-Satan visiting someone pretending to be a holy angel with a message from God. However, these messages are not from God and full of false ideas. For example, I would include the angel that visited Mohammed or Joseph Smith or some of the Montanists in the early centuries as a fallen angel, not a holy one.

Then again, Peter tells us in his epistle to be hospitable because we could very likely be entertaining angels unaware (because they look like humans when visiting us).

My best advice to you Ronnie is to not seek encounters with angels or any other spirit being or deceased person. This usually leads to demonic influences and serious error in one's thoughts of God, the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf, and the Person and work of the Holy Spirit because the angels are ungodly and seek to give you false views of the Godhead to lead one astray.

So, stick with the Scriptures guided by the Holy Spirit, walking with Jesus daily, and giving praise and honor to our Heavenly Father. We really do not need any more revelation today other than what Jesus has revealed in Himself and the Scriptures.

But, like I said, it cannot be totally ruled out because we do not know what God has determined to occur in our lives and history yet.

Hi Spencer

pt 1

Thank you for your insight.

You said you disagree that the Holy Spirit would reveal things beyond what is already written.

But there are many Biblical passages that say things will be revealed

I respectfully challenge you to please show me the Biblical passages to support your thoughts as I have done below to support the Spirit of God will reveal things, today.

If the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy, how can there not be more prophecy?

How then could we say we have a testimony of Jesus but not believe in revelation?

When we pray to God for guidance, can the Spirit not help direct us today?

An angel appeared to Cornelius and told him to call for Peter and Peter brought Cornelius the Gospel.

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. ( Hebrews 13:2)

Do you believe angels are among us?

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ( Hebrews 1:14)

And how can the Scripture be fulfilled Paul saying,

for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3)

Even the Saints in the early days received revelations

If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. ( 1 Corinthians 14:27)

If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. ( 1 Corinthians 14 30-31)

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. ( 1 Corinthians 14:26)

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ( Romans 8:9)

James 1:18 Here the apostle reveals our spirit as being saved, by using two words, begat and firstfruits, both of which speak about the human spirit as being resurrected. When reading Psalms 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 the word begat or begotten refers unto the day when God would resurrect the body of the Lord Jesus, thus creating the doctrine of resurrection in interpretation. Then in Leviticus 23 we are taught of the feast known as the firstfruits, the first feast happened on April 14 as the Passover, then the next feast called unleavened bread happened on April 15, finally on April the 16TH the feast of firstfruits took place. These three feats speak about Christ dying on Friday as our Passover, in the grave on Saturday as our unleavened bread, and rose the third day being Sunday, as our first fruits. It was the third day that God resurrected him, meaning the name reveals the resurrection. 1 Cor.15:23

James 1:21 Here is this verse the apostle now deals with the salvation of the soul as being separate from that of the spirit, for he insists that our soul will be saved by the engrafted word, not by faith without works in Calvary. Now we know that the only thing that was engrafted into every Christian on the day of salvation as an unconditional promise was the Ten Commandments in the heart, also known as the new covenant. For this reason he continues to teach in chapter 2 about this very thought and testified that faith without works is dead, meaning when it comes to saving our souls, rather we must have faith with works, from obeying with meekness the Ten Commandments written in the heart, he calls this the royal law and the law of liberty in James 2:8 and 2:12

What DWL is impling is Jesus was just a man the son of God....But not God the Son....Not an ABSOLUTE SON, Not God the son....Satan is behind his post....If Jesus were not God the Son an absolute Son...Then his Blood cd not be the Atonement for the Sins of the world....They are very clever in their doctrine....These J.W. PPL.....They always start out their conversations with we believe that Jesus is the Son of God....But they donot beleive that Jesus was God the son....Then they make all kinds of derogatory remarks about his Deity....Satan knows that if he can destroy Jesus as God the son HIS DEITY ....Then his blood was only a mans blood having no Atonement Value.... Acts 20:28 Feed the Church of God that he has purchased with his own Blood...The blood of Jesus/God... Hebrews 1:8 But unto the SON he said thy throne O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER....Don't ever think that satan is not clever....When one implies that Jesus was not an Absolute son...Not God the Son then he is impling that God neva had an ABSOLUTE SON....How sick is that....I salute Adam's post to DWL.

......Mans blood cd not atone for the sins of the world....It had to be the very blood of God ( Jesus ) Acts 20:28 ...

......Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....John the baptist

Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.

A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Do you know what "Lord" means?

The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.

God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?

More of God's truth about God:

Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"

Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Godhead:

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

John 1:18

God is we and us plural:

Genesis 1:26

If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?

Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)

Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)

And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)

"I AM" John 8:56-59

John 10:30

John 8:19

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

John 17:5

John 17:21

Hiya Grae luv ya....And Jesus was not his own Father but he was the father of the H.G....The very fact that we have a Father and a son begs the Question of a Granson a heavenly Jacob that Isaiah mentions in Isaiah 49....An Israel of God

....And the very fact that they call Jesus the bridegroom implies heavenly Children....Gods the H.G. Plural as the Stars of Heaven

But the scriptures says Hebrews 1:8....But unto the SON he says thy throne O GOD is forever and ever...A sceptre of righteounsess is the septre of thy Kingdom...

......Even in the natural a bridegroom always becomes a Father and the Children always becomes fathers....Everything has to multiply after its Kind....Even the H.G. which is the Child of Promise wants to regenerate himself in ppl....Washing us with his Word..... Titus 3:5 kjv....Multiplication of Christ Seed was that great Promise.

......Remember Jesus said blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when the son of man is revealed ....Which is when he will go forth and sow his seed in humanity the contents of the book that he finished with his own blood...That New Covenant....Bringing forth the sons of God in Humanity

When he said all mine is thine and all thine is mine proves he is equal to his FATHER and he thought it not Robbery to be equal to God his FATHER....But the law said we must honor our fathers thus he gave all honor to his father....Saying my Father is greater then i.....But even in the natural a son always becomes equal to his father and we fathers loves it so.

Even in the natural there is not 1 man who wants to see his son inferior to him....We want our sons to become equal to us....No man wants an inferior son....This is my beloveth son in whom i am well pleased...Jesus was God the son or his father was not God the father...period...ok lemme go

Just on this matter about 'Jesus being a creation of God', Brad. We see a couple of phrases used in the Bible: 'firstborn' and 'only begotten'.

'Firstborn' (Gk. prototokos, first to give birth to, firstborn) as seen in Romans 8:29, "the firstborn among many brethren", where Paul applies the meaning to Jesus being the first to bring humanity & divinity into one (i.e. Jesus the Word (God) united with humanity (flesh); and to us who are saved (i.e. humanity (flesh) united with the Spirit (God)).

And also in Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature", referring to Christ's highest rank & full rights bestowed upon Him by the Father over all creation; & that creation came into being by His Word Jesus & through Him, being held together by the Word of His Power (vv16,17 & Hebrews 1:3).

'Only begotten' (Gk. monogenes, unique, one of a kind) as seen in John 3:16, Hebrews 5:5, 1 John 4:9, etc. Could we say that Jesus was a created Being by God, as one would describe a creation of a baby in the womb or a potter creating a vessel from a lump of clay? The use of 'monogenes' strongly suggests that Jesus wasn't created, simply because He already existed within God's Person as the Word of God. But God did something not done before - a unique birth: that which always existed came into the World in another form - Mary's womb was merely the delivery point for prophecy's fulfilment & for Jesus' identification with His people. God could just as well have zapped His Word into flesh & onto Earth, but God had His Own special Plan.

One could use the word 'created' in this respect as you've done, but that might then bring on the thought that Jesus was a created Being without an eternal existence. I feel 'monogenes' satisfies the uniqueness of Jesus' pre- & post-incarnation Presence.

Thanks Chris for your reply! I agree with the thought that the "Word was with God and the Word was God". I think the difference in beliefs is what happened when the in Word was made flesh. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. I believe he was full of "grace and truth". He carried nature of God, but needed the grace of God and had to access it like we do. That is why he prayed, fasted, etc to resist temptation. Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. v 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: I believe he reflected his father at all times. Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; The following verse to me is interesting indicating that we have been given the glory that God gave him. John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: A mystery I have: is when was he considered the begotten Son and when did that happen. Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. These thoughts are not all inclusive, but enough hopefully to clear any misunderstandings.

Hello Ronald. If I might add my understanding to some of the Scriptural references you gave.

Revelation 3:14: "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." The Greek for 'beginning' is 'arche', as we add that prefix to the words such as 'arch-enemy, arch-bishop, arch-rival. It certainly has the primary meaning of a 'beginning or first in line', but it clearly denotes 'one who holds the primary highest position/control over others'. That being the case, if Jesus first appeared as the creation by God in the womb of Mary, it could never be said that He was the beginning/first in line to all of God's Creation, which happened several millennia prior. But Jesus was there because He was involved in the creative Work ( John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2).

Colossians 1:15: "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature." I understand that 'firstborn' indicated here, refers to the 'rights & privileges' of the firstborn child (e.g. 2 Chronicles 21:3). All God's creation have received His Love & Care, but at the birth of His Son into humanity, Jesus, as the Son, was the first(born) to gain/inherit His Father's full estate, as well as enjoying "the fullness of God in Himself" ( Colossians 1:19). But the full riches of God to humanity could only be realized by those placing their trust in the Forerunner & Shepherd of their faith, Jesus Christ.

John 17:5: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." What was His Glory? We can assume all of God's Glory, for He is the Word of/from God, but even if that wasn't the case, Jesus, as the Word of God, had that Glory even before creation of the worlds.

You stated, "I honor the Son for what He gave up." If Jesus (the Word) didn't exist from eternity within the Person of God, & was only created from the womb of Mary, I wonder what He had to give up? Your responses have been very interesting.

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Who is the Word?

John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?

If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1

"...the Word was God."

"...[Jesus] was God."

JESUS.

WAS.

GOD.

John 1:1

This is God's Word.

Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?

It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?

This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?

I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7

(plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11