Discuss Hebrews 6 Page 7

Michael.

I errored on previous reply. I believe

Hebrews 6. is talking to believers, BUT not about SALVATION. If we can loose our salvation can we be restored? Every one sins, no one is perfect. Romans 7 ect..

Jesus is our advocate with the Father if we do sin. 1John 2:1. ect..

Visiting the text.

Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is ""IMPOSSIBLE" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO (REPENTANCE) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF THIS VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT SALVATION THAT MEANS YOU GOT ONE CHANCE. "" FOR IT IS ( IMPOSSIBLE ) TO RENEW THEM AGAIN!! If you sin it's over!

Read on. NOTICE VERSE 9.

Hebrews 6:7-9. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION, though we thus speak.

The Entire Msg to the Hebrews is about maturity.

they was under persecution and was still mengaling in Judaism.

Fruit and gifts accompany salvation through the Holyspirit, Not Judaism.

Salvation and SANCTIFICATION is by the work of the spirit and is a GIFT "un Merritted."

This Way is called God's election.

Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH;)

2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

God bless

Hello S Spencer,

1) When someone "truly" believes in Christ Jesus, he automatically receives the Holy Spirit (see Acts 10:44) and is attached to the vine, Jesus Christ. This is nicely explained in the parallel account of John 15:1-6 at:

Romans 11:19-21 "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be GRAFFED IN. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.

Notice, the "gentile" believer, like a branch, is graffed into the olive tree because of his faith in Christ Jesus. But, Paul says to fear - why? Because God can "spare not thee" as he "spared not" the unbelieving Jews.

2) The apostle Peter was writing to faithful believing Christians. See 2 Peter 1:1. He is giving them a warning against false prophets. See 2 Peter 2:1. He specifically says about these ones that they "have forsaken the right way". See 2 Peter 2:15. So, at one time, they were on the right way. At 2 Peter 2:20, he says that they "had escaped the pollutions of the world" but, unfortunately, "they are again entangled therein". They have returned to the world.

Thus, they are likened to a dog who has vomited out his vomit and left it for good. But, then, he returns. Or, the sow (pig) who used to role in the mud. Then he leaves the mud and is cleansed. But, unfortunately, he then returns. In a similar way, these ones who believed in Christ Jesus and received the Holy Spirit and were cleansed of their old, sinful ways, have now returned to their sinful practices. Peter says "too bad for them". Jude says they have "died twice". See Jude 14.

3) As for Hebrews, Paul is speaking to believers.

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,". This happened when they believed. See again Acts 10:44.

I invite your further thoughts."

Hello Jesse.

Thank you for your comments.

1) When someone "truly" believes in Christ Jesus, he automatically receives the Holy Spirit (see Acts 10:44) and is attached to the vine, Jesus Christ. This is nicely explained in the parallel account at:

Romans 11:19-21 "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be GRAFFED IN. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and THOU STANDEST BY FAITH. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE.

Notice, the "gentile" believer, like a branch, is graffed into the olive tree because of his faith in Christ Jesus. But, Paul says to fear - why? Because God can "spare not thee" as he "spared not" the unbelieving Jews.

2) The apostle Peter was writing to faithful believing Christians. See 2 Peter 1:1. He is giving them a warning against false prophets. See 2 Peter 2:1. He specifically says about these ones that they "have forsaken the right way". See 2 Peter 2:15. So, at one time, they were on the right way. At 2 Peter 2:20, he says that they "had escaped the pollutions of the world" but, unfortunately, "they are again entangled therein". They have returned to the world.

Thus, they are likened to a dog who has vomited out his vomit and left it for good. But, then, he returns. Or, the sow (pig) who used to role in the mud. Then he leaves the mud and is cleansed. But, unfortunately, he then returns. In a similar way, these ones who believed in Christ Jesus and received the Holy Spirit and were cleansed of their old, sinful ways, have now returned to their sinful practices. Peter says "too bad for them". Jude says they have "died twice". See Jude 14.

3) As for Hebrews, Paul is speaking to believers.

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,". This happened when they believed. See again Acts 10:44.

I invite your further thoughts.

Michael.

PG 2.

Hebrews 6:12-19. I Erred on page 2, "I meant unconditional covenant, not oath.' Here goes-

Gen.15;1-12.

Vs 6: And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Vs 8:And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

VSES. 9-12. And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

God put Abraham to sleep and entered the covenant alone. only God can break it. ISSAC WAS PROMISED!! AS WELL AS WE!

Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 'Unconditional!

Vs 26-27:But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

LOOK AT THOSE UNDER THE LAW IN-

VS 25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. MT SINAI IS A MT YOU COULD NOT TOUCH! ( COULD'NT KEEP ) THE LAW WAS GIVEN THERE.

GEN. 22 Abraham offered up his only begotten promised son, because he believed in the previous promise/covenant. AND KNEW GOD WOULD HAVE TO RAISE HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, "That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

The crucifixion of Christ played out.

GB

Michael.

PG 1. "PAGES OUT OF ORDER' 3-1-2.

Hebrews 3:7-11.Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Israel had a hardened heart. Which is the condition to all men without the "NEW" heart given by the Lord when saved.

( Hebrews 4:2-3. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.)

( For we which have believed do enter into rest,) as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Jude 1:5. answers itself, " they believe not' ( Was not saved )

James 2:21&26.

21:Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

26:For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James is speaking of works "AFTER" salvation not for salvation.

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. This is what James 2:21 is speaking of.

Hebrews 6:12-19, and James 2:21.

These are 2 seperate accounts of Abraham in Hebrews 6:12-16 and James 2:21-23.

"Hebrews the promise was Issac confirmed by an oath". Played out in Gen. 15:1-12.

James was "Abraham having faith in THAT promise". Played out in Gen. 22:1-14.

Hello S Spencer,

Regarding Hebrews 6:13-19, I would direct your attention specifically to verse 15.

Hebrews 6:15 "And so, AFTER HE HAD PATIENTLY ENDURED, he obtained the promise."

Compare that with Hebrews 6:12.

Hebrews 6:12 "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them WHO THROUGH FAITH AND PATIENCE inherit the promises."

James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

What would have happened had Abraham developed a wicked heart and refused to obey God? What if Abraham had cursed God and returned to his original place of residence - the land of Ur? Would he have inherited the promises?

What happened to Israel when they became bad? Did they inherit the promised land? Were they (that generation) not all destroyed in the desert and did not enter the promised land?

Hebrews 3:10-11 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest."

Jude 1:5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having SAVED the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward DESTROYED them that believed not."

1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."

God's promises are certain. They will never fail. They are, in fact, like an anchor. So we can absolutely trust God. However, for us to benefit from those promises, we must exercise faith in God - unwavering trust in obeying God and all that he asks of us.

James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also."

2 Peter 1:10-11 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election SURE: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Good day.

Hi Jesse,

The Bible warns many times that a person can lose their salvation. Here are a few places.

John 15:6 "If a man abide (remain) not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Romans 11:21 "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

2 Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I welcome your thoughts.

Good day.

Amen Jesse.

Great declaration of clear truth.

To go along with the truth you presented brings us back to Genesis to the "UNCONDITIONAL" promise God performed "ALONE" to Abraham 430 years before the law given.

Hebrews 6:13-19. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of PROMISE. Galatians 4:28.

Hey Adam,

Repenting and confessing are two different things. Confession is admitting you are a sinner( 1 John 1:8-9) but repentance, as I have stated earlier, is "to turn from something...." You say, "It is an unusual position to claim that repenting doesn't mean repenting of sins. In this context what else would someone be repenting of?" But looking at the bilbe, God repented more than anyone else. So if you are asking "..what else would someone be repenting of, if not sins" then I would ask you, did God sin so that He can repent? The problem is we associate repentance with " repenting of sins" and that's not the case. Even Hebrews says this:

Hebrews 6:1-3

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit."

Did the author say Repentance from sins? No! He said "repentance from dead works"... We cannot just add "...of your sins" in front of every "repent" word...

The Bible does not say devils believe so they will go to heaven. Romans 10:9 says - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I have never read anywhere where devils confessed with their mouths that God raised Christ from the dead, and even more so, devils cant get saved because it's to late for them - Jude 1:6 - Hitler, Stalin there is no evidence to suggest they got saved because of Matthew 7:14-20

Hi Rich. That's a good question & the answer is found in that chapter. If you read the whole chapter, you'll see from verse 1 that Peter is speaking about the false prophets & false teachers that would enter the Church - they would appear as 'normal' Christians but their objective would be to bring in their false doctrines & teaching & bring the Church to ruin. And Peter highlights some of their many sins & deceptions in several verses, especially verses 13-19.

Now there are always opportunities for apostates or reprobates to repent & turn back to the Lord & follow the true path, but often, these false teachers were so embedded in their false beliefs & sins that issued out from them, that they never found any need to change. And such were these infiltrators that would come into the Church. They certainly had knowledge of Christ & the holy Faith, but that knowledge kept them from salvation, from hearing the warnings of God's Spirit, & entrenched in their sins. So Peter says in verse 21: "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

This chapter harmonizes with Hebrews 6:4-6, where the Hebrews writer also speaks of those who had received light, partaking of the Spirit's benefits & of the good Word, yet they ultimately turned their backs to God. The writer was referring particularly to those Jews (as the Letter title suggests) who after tasting of the good things of Christ, left it all to return back to Judaism. They weren't saved, just as those in Peter's letter, & so the Word is true that says, "By their fruits ye shall know them" ( Matthew 7:20). A person who is not "in Christ" & Christ in them will soon have his true motives & sins exposed & so Peter's warning to the Church to beware of such people who bring teaching inconsistent to what they were taught ( 2 Peter 1:4-8). May you be blessed as you study God's Word further, Rich.

PG 1.

Lets start with Hebrews 6:4-6 with the view you can loose your salvation.

4: For it is ""impossible"" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That sounds like they're saved right? Right.

So if you read that verse carefully with the mind you can loose your salvation "you got one shot at it!!" ( For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened....) ( If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

You can take this passage and say if you were saved and some how stumbled "a small lie, got angry, ect.." it is impossible to renew you to repentance!! your forever Lost!! Read it again with the view you can loose your salvation.

That does not sound right so now take the passage with the view you cant loose your salvation and say these people was not really saved, "The Calvinist view"

It seems they suffer the same fate! Whether professors or not 'they were once enlightened'.

It is "Impossible" ( for those who were once ""enlightened,"" and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

The unsaved premise seems to also fails. they also got one shot!

I believe the writer is writing to believers, he addresses them that way in Ch 3:1. "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling",

I don't think this is talking about salvation at all, it don't say renew them again to salvation, it say repentance. The writer is writing to the Hebrews and urging them to maturity, the burden of the writer is not to return to Judaism. Legalism, them becoming fruitless

This is a repost to the 2 links that I pasted, Something went terribly wrong!!

Isaiah 32:12-13. They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.

Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:

"PARRELLELS WITH HEBREWS 6:8".

HERE'S THE 2ND

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (KJV) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

PG 2.

Lets revisit the text starting from-

Hebrews 5:11-14. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Paul is urging them towards maturity.

Now lets take up Hebrews 6:7-9.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

Verse 8: But that which ""beareth thorns and briers"" is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

THE KEY IS IN VERSE 9.

Verse 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and ( things that accompany salvation,) though we thus speak. WHAT ACCOMPANIES SALVATION? FRUIT AND REWARDS.

Verse 8 parallels with

Isaiah 5:6-7. And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

Also. Link

You see the whole concept here. Link

You see these verses can not be about salvation, if so we're all in trouble.

Its about what accompany salvation.

I hope that helps.

PG 1.

Lets start with Hebrews 6:4-6 with the view you can loose your salvation.

4: For it is ""impossible"" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That sounds like they're saved right? Right.

So if you read that verse carefully with the mind you can loose your salvation "you got one shot at it!!" ( For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened....) ( If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

You can take this passage and say if you were saved and some how stumbled "a small lie, got angry, ect.." it is impossible to renew you to repentance!! your forever Lost!! Read it again with the view you can loose your salvation.

That does not sound right so now take the passage with the view you cant loose your salvation and say these people was not really saved, "The Calvinist view"

It seems they suffer the same fate! Whether professors or not 'they were once enlightened'.

It is "Impossible" ( for those who were once ""enlightened,"" and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;...)

The unsaved premise seems to also fails. they also got one shot!

I believe the writer is writing to believers, he addresses them that way in Ch 3:1. "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling",

I don't think this is talking about salvation at all, it don't say renew them again to salvation, it say repentance. The writer is writing to the Hebrews and urging them to maturity, the burden of the writer is not to return to Judaism. Legalism, them becoming fruitless.

As I am looking forward to a reply from Earl I want to make another post. No rush Earl you have stated your situation.

As Adam has stated in another post I cannot see ALL being saved in the end as how many Scriptures there are about people going to eternal damnation or "Hell". Some can't see a loving God be like this to people for say only sinning in the span of their physical life. Though I don't think anyone can perceive how serious sin is to a Perfect, Pure, Almighty God. Also in that it is not the pleasure of God that any should perish. The Lord will not turn away any that truly come to Him. Then on the day of Judgement when the books are opened. People may be shown how many times in their lives God has tried to lead them to Salvation in Jesus Christ and repentance of sins. Maybe just repentance before the Lord came to earth. All up to Him as He is fair.

So here are a couple more Scriptures I find that solidify this. Even at the end of Isaiah 66:23-24. Speaking of all flesh coming to worship Him though just the next verse it speaks of how bad it will be for those who are against Him. Daniel 12:2, Psalms 9:17, 2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 6:8, 1 Peter 4:17-19, 2 Peter 3:7. Our names written in Heaven which does not seem to be for all Luke 10:20.

How Jesus Christ spake of a "Hell" and tried to warn people of it a lot. A place of "wailing and gnashing of teeth". Eternal punishment as those who are saved eternal life. The same Greek word used "aionios" for "everlasting or without beginning or end".

The story of Lazarus and there being two places separate from each other after death. Luke 16:20-31.

Weather it be sheol, hades, gehenna, tartarus, or just hell I want nothing to do with any of those places. I believe God loves us so much He sent us these warnings in that we do not have to go there. Though if any reject Him He will not force anyone to be with Him.

A good saying. "If you are born twice(born again in the Spirit) you die once, born once die twice".

As you stated. If it may be the way we word things we post that may seem we might not see eye to eye. I don't think we are far off from each other. Though really the most important thing is that we are both with the Lord. As some of my other brothers and sisters here may not agree with me fully on everything. That's ok though. Again the most important thing is Jesus Christ. It is good for us to converse and if we do not agree on a certain point that's ok. We are still of the body of Christ and only trying to help one another.

Just for a couple other Scriptures with some things that are "above", of God, and "agathos" is not used:

Matthew 5:16 and Matthew 13:37-38. About letting your light shine before men of your "good" works to glorify our Father. That the "good" seed are the children of the Kingdom sowed by the Son of Man.

John 10:11. Jesus Christ stating He is the "good" Shepherd.

1 Timothy 2:3. Things being "good" and acceptable in the sight of God.

Titus 2:14. That we who are redeemed by the Lord be zealous of "good" works.

Hebrews 6:5. How the Word of God is "good".

James 2:7. The "worthy" name by which we were called.

To end I liked this one. Galatians 5:22. Both "agathos.." and "chrestotes" are fruits of the Spirit.

As I really can't differentiate that only "agathos.." is of the Spirit of God. That being the word Jesus used in Mark 10:18 does not mean to me this is only for Him. As other words like "excellence, righteous, honorable, wonderful, amazing, almighty, glorious, holy, beautiful, perfect, integrity, etc". To me this does not mean we would have to pick only one of these words for God. All of them fit Him perfectly. As I believe in the Greek, and most other languages, they have different words with somewhat of the same meaning.

God Bless.

Bro Barney,

If I may add a little more to the truth you have shared, I believe there are only two types of people in this world, saved and unsaved. A person is either a slave to Jesus Christ or a slave to sin, no in-between. I believe that salvation is a present-tense condition of everyone who has been born of God's Spirit. A true believer who is being led by God's Spirit would never think it is okay to commit sin or to live a sinful lifestyle.

There are many who claim to be Christians but have never been born of the Spirit of Christ. They may go to church religiously and participate with the believers and give the appearance of being a believer, but still be void of God's Spirit dwelling within. Those are the ones who eventually walk away. To the others in the church who assumed that person was saved, they will say "See, he walked away and denounced the whole thing, so he lost his salvation.

This was the same with Judas Iscariot. He was part of the twelve but he was evil from the start. Judas was never saved and then lost his salvation. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfil the scripture saying that He would be betrayed. When Jesus said have not I chosen you all, and one of you is a devil, none of the other 11 knew that it was Judas. But Jesus knew, and that is why He chose Judas.

I shared earlier about the people in the book of Hebrews who were being "enlighted" to the truth, but later on turned and walked away. Those were Hebrew/Jewish people. They were never saved, but people want to use verses in Hebrews to show that salvation can be lost. I know of a couple of verses in Hebrews that are being used to show that salvation can be lost, Hebrews 6:4 and Hebrews 10:26, and also one in Peter's writings, but none of them is talking about saved people losing their salvation.

The bible speaks about those who profess to be Christian and later on walk away from it all. That's given to us in ( 1 John 2:19). They walk away because they were never saved to begin with!

Hello Bro Barney,

Naturally, I disagree with your interpretation of the scripture and the assumptions made.

I believe the argument of once saved always saved contradicts itself. Here's how:

1. Someone believes God gave them freewill.

2. Someone believes all Christians are already 'saved' and that status never changes.

3. Then they are asked about Luke 12:10 blasphemy of the holy ghost.

4. They then claim it doesn't apply to Christians, that Christians can't, that they don't even have the freewill to sin, despite many documented cases of Christians doing exactly that both in the Bible and in the world today. Isaiah 14:12-14 shows that even angels in heaven have freewill to sin and blaspheme.

Christians still need to face judgment day like everyone else. Only after can someone be actually saved. If we genuinely follow Christ we can be assured of salvation, but the Bible warns us plenty of times to obey, to run the race, to persevere, to abide in the doctrine of Christ 2 John 1:8-9, it paints a much different picture than that I get from others who claim its ok to sin, that you can't sin, that you can be in the world and do whatever you want with zero penalty, and don't even have to worry about turning your back on Christ or blaspheming, because you can't do that. That's the opposite message of what Jesus said. Hebrews 6:4, John 14:15, Matthew 5:13, MATTHEW 7:23.

If once saved always saved is true, does that mean Christians can commit mass murder and still go to heaven? violence? rape? blasphemy? Or that their freewill is restricted so it's impossible for that to happen? Judas betrayed Jesus, and many Christians leave the faith and reject Jesus, unfortunately. There's a forum on Reddit called ex-Christian if you don't believe it. So, are all ex-Christians who reject Jesus still saved then?

Which is more likely: that satan, the father of lies is deceiving Christians into obeying God more than necessary, or that committing unlimited sin is ok?

Sherry,

You will not find the phrase "Once saved, always saved" in the bible. But that does not mean that salvation is not permanent. There are a couple of verses in Hebrews that seem to indicate that salvation can be lost, but if you understand who the book was written to and what was taking place at that time, you can better understand that it's not talking about saved individuals losing their salvation.

I would encourage you to do some research on what it would cost a Hebrew/Jewish person to denounce Judaism and surrender their life to Christ. It would cost them everything. They would be disowned by their own family, they would be kicked out of their temple, society would not accept them, and they wouldn't be allowed to get a job. It's still the same today.

Hebrews 6:4 seems to indicate that a person can lose their salvation, but that's not the case. It's not talking about saved believers losing their salvation. It's talking about Jews who were part of the crowd that were following along with the teachings and being enlightened to the truth, but never taking that next step in surrendering to Christ. An enlightened person does not mean they are saved. We have many people in our churches today that are being enlightened to the truth, but still haven't surrendered their lives to Christ. They are in church every week but they are not saved. And many of them do eventually walk away. They are not losing their salvation because they never were saved.

You see, there were many Hebrew people following along with the teaching. They were being "enlightened" to the truth. The problem is they never surrendered their life to Christ because of what it would cost them.

I believe in the permanency of salvation because I know that salvation is a work of God, not man. It is God who saves us, and it is God who keeps us saved. If we say we have eternal life, but also believe it can be lost, is it really eternal?

Hi Sherry,

No where in the Bible does it say "once saved always saved". It does say those who have been "partakers" of the gift of the Holy Ghost "if they shall fall away". Hebrews 6:4-6. In numerous places it speaks of those who have heard the truth, of our Lord Jesus Christ, or "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then are entangled again. 2 Peter 2:20-22. Is as the Proverb 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Repenting of the sins of this world is one of the most important messages throughout the entire Holy Bible. 1 Peter 1:14-16. The devil is the only one who wants people to keep sinning in their worldly lifestyles. Which keeps you separated from God. We are to do our best to follow in the footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not die so we could live a life of willful sin and not care. That is what the devil wants people to think so they keep on sinning. This is not a joke or a free pass to sin. God hates sin. Though he loves the sinner and wants them to repent and turn to the Lord.

There is nothing wrong with good works. That is what makes God happy. Love. What is in your heart? It is not good works that save us. The grace, mercy, and love of God saved us as He sent us His Son. To live a perfect life for us. Good works, and repenting from sin and iniquity, is what shows our faith in the Lord that we are walking in newness of life and are His children. To live by His Will.

Don't let anyone tell you repenting and good works are taking something away from Jesus Christ. We must follow our Lord, with a pure heart, till the end.

God Bless.

Melchizedek was High Priest until Jesus ascended to Heaven immediately after his resurrection.

Remember he told Mary not to touch him until he had ascended to the Father in heaven? It would have defiled Him.

Jesus is our High Priest seated at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for all saints.

What was the purpose of Melchisdec? I know he is shadow and type of Christ...but why was he needed...

Hello Mary,

As I would like to give you my aspect of this unforgivable sin. There are many that believe "once saved always saved" which is not in the Bible but a made up interpretation of picking verses. There is Scripture to prove that someone can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and lose that gift. Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Timothy 4:1 etc. Now I would only have to see one verse like that for it to touch my heart and know this is not a game. And there are more.

This to me does not mean one cannot fall away and then not return to the Lord as there have been instances like this. His mercy, forgiveness, and longsuffering is endless. He will have mercy and forgiveness to whom He want's Exodus 33:19. As He knows who it will help to prosper and those it will not help and be a waste for Him. As some who were once saved now curse God and the Lord etc. It is all up to God, as he reads hearts, and knows who shall endure till the end and who shall be saved. As He knows the end before the beginning.

As this, detail, also just came to me today as I was outside. Now I see why. Some may say "why would God give His Holy Spirit to someone when knows they will not make it". What came to me was that this is a way to justify us, His chosen people, His children, to show that He did not just give His Holy Spirit to His children. But to all types of people. Of coarse God does not need to do anything to answer questions of men. He is Almighty and does what He pleases. This will make those who fell away inexcusable even on their own terms. As He is fair and just.

I hope that helps and this is from me what I have come to learn. Letting the Holy Ghost guide and teach me.

All thanks be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in heaven.

God Bless.

Hebrews 6:1-6. John 17:1-31. 1 John 2:1-2. 1 John 5:18. 2 John 9 3 John 11

God shall never allow His Son to be crucified afresh...

Matt 12:30...

Our discussion seemingly has led you to a point of frustration. That was never my reason. If you are upset or perturbed I am sorry ( Romans 7:9-10). As far as where have I (heard) what I have shared with you; thats an easy answer. In your terminology, I (heard) it from 60 years of intense study but more importantly I (heard) it from my Father God Jehovah. As far as my question you judged as foolish? Maybe to that question you should consider again with or without our interaction. The answer may just be a furthering of your walk to glory ( Hebrews 6:1). After all is said and done God shall be 'All in All' ( 1Cor 15:28), no more Jesus, no more Christ; that is where the question I ask came from, foolishness may God forbid. I have so much more to share but I'm not sure you could hear ( Matthew 11:5). These are not physically blind, lame or deaf but spiritually just as in John 6:53 -61. May you enjoy your walk as I have fully enjoyed mine; Christ, Jesus, Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, Comforter, Satan, yes they are all of God, not on God but in God.

Tom

Adam,

I agree with most of what you say. "Shall we continues to sin that grace may abound? God forbid!" And, yes. Progressives want to cherry pick, redefine reality and justify sinful behavior.

Remember, though, that although written by some 40 different authors across 1500 years, there is ONE timeless Author. The Bible CANNOT support opposing views as being true. The writer of Hebrews was addressing Hebrew believers who were being tempted to return to the old sacrificial system. He was arguing that Jesus was better than angels, better hope, better covenant, better promises, better sacrifice.

In Hebrews 6:4, he is warning about Jewish people going back to the old system. There is no sacrifice for sin there. Jesus' sacrifice is better. The ones that did leave and go back were never really saved to begin with. That's why he says in vs 9, although I'm talking like this, in your case I'm confident of better things about your salvation. Gotta read the whole passage.

In Hebrews 10:26, he's again saying that in the old sacrifice systems, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." The Law was an instrument of judgement and death. There's no hope in The Law! Our only hope is in Jesus Christ!

Anyhow, I think that we are in agreement about much more than you think.

Selective focus and cherrypicking seems to be the common root of the argument for once saved always saved. Otherwise, scripture clearly refutes that through so many scriptures, like Hebrews 10:26, Hebrews 6:4, etc. And the next layer of selective focus is ignoring obedience to Jesus, but putting more focus on it being bad to do good 'works' and be 'legalistic' as if that's sin to be obey God. That twisted idea sounds awfully familiar as if it doesn't come from God, but the opposite of God. The father of lies absolutely loves twisting things- that it's 'bad' to do good. Does Jesus say it's 'bad' to obey Him? John 14:15.

So, who will I listen to? Man, satan, or Jesus? Easy decision for me. It's good to do good, despite what 'progressive' Christian culture may claim. Doing good doesn't mean you're trying to 'earn' your way into heaven, as some claim. And some falsely assume you don't believe in grace either if you believe doing good is good. I hope people don't try to slander Christians who try to obey Jesus. If Jesus was alive today, some would probably accuse Him of being legalistic and works based too. The works vs grace is already explained in the Bible, James 2, Romans 11, etc. People end up being disproportionate emphasis on one or the other, but the Bible already predicted this difficulty which is why they wrote so much about it in the Bible to explain. Pray for God for wisdom and understanding and read the Bible not to confirm what you want to believe, or what you were already taught by men, but to understand what God's Word actually says. God bless.

You need to read John 3:5 and Acts 2:38 it will explain it all

In heb.6:4 to me sounds as if they who have tasted of the goodness & become apostate then that to me sounds like blasphemy of the holy spirit if they can no longer be or repent after once being enlightened and then they cannot go to heaven does that sound like apostacy is blasphemy not denying the woos of the holy spirit & never asking jesus to be their lord & savior, but having once being a believer in christ then denying everything that the holy spirit has revealed to a person & then becoming saved then to do a 180 & never being able to return to the goodness of god they once tasted , the holy spirit (heaven). that's the same punishment as a non believer & never coming to the knowledge of jesus christ & all he has to offer in this life & the next.

1 John 1:9

Hebrews 6:18-20