You asked: How does Satan deceive this whole world? Rev.12:9
Revelation was written in the first century of Christian Era, at that time the Devil had already deceived mankind for around 4000 years, even JESUS was tempted by the Devil I suppose in Neguev, but Satan still had not 7 heads; The 7 heads was still in the embryo.
But now, in this current time of Apocalypse, around 2000 years AC, the body of the Devil will be completed with 7 heads, and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his 7 heads.His new name now is red Dragon-Rev.12:9-,and his TAIL drew (shall cast down)the third part of the STARS of heaven to the earth.(STARS? who are the STARS? Job 38:4&7 combined with Daniel 12:3).
When the red Dragon-Rev.13:11-gives his POWER,and his Throne in Jerusalem,and great Authority to the Beast of sea, upon which rides de great whore-the Roman Catholic Church-then the holy city will be trodden by the Gentiles- Luke 21:24 combined with Rev.11:2, and he will join Catholicism and Judaism(iron and clay- Daniel 2), then the body of Satan/the Dragon will grow exceedingly, but it will grow even more with the adhesion of evangelical churches whose angels are fallen or spiritually dead, these will form or constitute the TAIL of the Dragon, these will believe in the false messiah, the Beast that will rise from the earth(Israel, the clay, the dry land), a false lamb, a false messiah- John 5:43-47 combined from Revelation 13:11, then the Red Dragon's body will be complete with his 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL. By the way, the origin of the false messiah is of the 10 tribs of Israel,especifically of the trib of Dan- Genesis 49:17.
He will exercise all the power of the first Beast before him,will cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(of sea)whose deadly wound was healed.
And he will do great wonders,so that will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of...
In fact it is very sad, and it is happening in whole world, and the worst it to still come for all nations. Read what JESUS said and warning the whole world by His word: Luke 21:22-36. Take a look.
By the way, there is no effect without cause. See this one example below, among many other since ancient time:
2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the Lord GOD of their fathers sent to them by His messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because He had compassion on His people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of GOD, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people,till THERE WAS NO REMEDY. (Now it is not and will not be different, THERE IS NO REMEDY, unfortunately.)
Romans 2:5-11
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
2Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
"34And take heed to yourselves (believers), lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
A few points on the above.
1. How is it possible that Jesus warns us not be in a state of pleasure and carings of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God? How is it possible to be involved in matters of this life when christians will not accept the beast's mark and eventually won't be able even to survive in such conditions?
2. Please pay attention to verse 36, "... that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass..."
3. I have read in older posts that God will preserve us like He did with Hebrews in Egypt. But at that time they were all concetrated at a place, the Land of Goshen. In the future we will be dispersed throughout the whole earth, it is a different thing altogether.
To me it is clear that the time when Jesus comes to take His Bribe is at a different time from His 2nd coming on earth. The condition of the world in those two cases will be completely different.
At the rapture the world is the ususal normal world. People will be involved with their everyday life, not fearing for what comes next, unprepared. Why? Because life will be as usual. Matthew 24:36-40.
On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophies will be occuring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economical system will collapse(the Babylon), Luke 21:25-26 and events on Revelation
2 different conditions on earth, 2 diferent events.
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.
Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,
Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3Matt. 12:36John 5:28-29Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14
We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.
We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18
Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.
After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57Acts 9:3-15Acts 10:9-16Rom. 11:25
There seems to be a different fate; for instance for the wicked servant in Luke 19:22 as compared with Matthew 18:32. The allegory in Matthew in particular seems to indicate someone who is lost; the parable in Luke separates the fate of losing the talent buried in the ground from the fate of those who would not have Him "rule over them." in verse 27. That would seem to indicate someone perhaps a Jew who physically makes it into the Millennium as a sheep and those destroyed the goats at the judgment immediately after the Tribulation.
To differentiate parables into one category or situation is tempting to due to fit a particular doctrinal viewpoint; but clearly there are applications for all wicked and righteous; as well as various rewards or lack thereof for His saints. There are applications for Israel as a nation; as well as the church. The focus certainly is on Israel as to where the events of the end times will occur; and the affects of what goes on in the end times will be felt throughout the earth.
The original question brought up the idea of how God would judge eternally with stripes as it were which could be metaphorical for punishments in hell; but again chastisement as a concept is opposed to wrath. Since He only chastises His own others are left to reap the reward of their doings. There will be varying degrees of punishment in hell; and no doubt those who are reprobate knowing something about God will have harsher sentences.
In summary; it is better to be disciplined now than suffer in hell; but it for His people there can be suffering inflicted by Satan if we persist in rebellion. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). We can be as the person in Proverbs 5:14 almost ruined in the assembly; or approaching death as in Psalm 88. Therefore we should be as David and quickly repent rather than others who stubbornly refuse correction and reap accordingly (such as Solomon). We all should have the mindset of Luke 21:36 but most believers don't.
Today; a brother from my church discussed what He said was a time the Lord told him not to fear; and today it seems like confirmation as I was admonishing him in much the same way. Specifically; it was related to the nearness of His coming as well as several things related to what appears to be the imminent demise of our country as judgment draws nigh.
The Lord has held back the day of the Lord with His great patience to this point but it will come suddenly ( Habakkuk 2:3 and many other N.T. verses). Jesus also states that people will be buying; selling; giving in marriage etc. much like the time of Noah when He returns ( Luke 17:27 also referring to the days of Lot.)
I remembered how 40 years ago many were talking about giving up everything and standing on a mountain as they were convinced Christ would arrive by 1988. Clearly that didn't happen. We also discussed the timing of when the last generation actually begins; the Antichrist and other issues. What I would say characterizes both of us is a hunger and thirst to preach on the end times which for me is something I feel I have put on a shelf for most of my adulthood since the early 80's.
These days spiritual warfare is harder than ever; again something which we seemed to have gone through. We cannot afford to leave any sin unforgiven; as the enemy is ready to pounce on us with any weak links in the chain; and also the fear of death needs to be overcome through trusting Christ. That can't; of course be done without total surrender to Christ and having good fellowship is a key especially as we see the Day of the Lord coming ( Heb. 10:25).
I would venture to say that there are very few left who are living out a totally surrendured life to Christ as charactarized by the Laodicean church. We should test ourselves to see if we are in the faith now ( 2 Cor. 13:5); if anything to flee the Tribulation as well as assure that we are saved from hell.
I feel like a broken record here--or I could say CD but even that is retro nowadays. Anyway the sixth seal shows that everyone is aware of judgments being bought against the world by God and Christ ( Rev. 6:15-17). That hasn't happened yet clearly; and that is a result of course of the martyrs of the 5th Seal and reaping what they sowed in that regard. All the seals are personally opened by Christ and are therefore preceding the book itself being opened. The first seal in fact is judgment read these verses
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Daniel 8:23
Psalm 55:21
Daniel 8:25
Luke 21:35
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Daniel 9:27
So there will then be a time unlike today when there are no atheists; there will be only God and Satan worshippers; although men will worship demons through the trumpet judgments despite knowing the obvious that they are choosing that over the true God and what are increasing intensities of judgments.
According to 1 Corinthians 15:22 at the last trump the Lord comes for His church. Some say that Matthew 24:36 is referring to that day that no man knows the day and hour as being the Jewish feast of Trumpets. There could be something to that; with Christ fulfilling the Spring feasts already; namely the Passover lamb sacrificed for us; and the Pentecost ascension which; by the way was always celebrated on the "8th day" of the week.
As my last post indicates; there is little talk today among most professing believers of the Rapture. We see what could be an analogy of a separation or Rapture of some in Luke 12:45 where the watchmen is beaten by his fellow sorkers. There is even some say that same pattern in Song of Solomon 5:7.
Luke 21:36 instructs us to pray that we are worthy to escape all these things and to stand before the Son of Man. The original language uses the word "agonia" or something to that affect. Clearly; not all believers are praying in such a manner which questions their walk with God as to either their salvation or their position of readiness. I have probably presented some ideas last year as to whether all Christians are raptured or if some have to go through some of the Tribulation. What is certain is that these warnings; along with Revelation 3:10 are for those who are awake and waiting which I contended in my last posting that Malachi 3:16 spoke of.
Whatever our eschatology; fearing God and anticipating His arrival isn't restricted to those who hold a Pretribulational and Premillenial viewpoint. I have fellowshipped with Amillenials and Post Millenials who had more conviction about Christ coming as well as the terrible judgments on the earth than those who claim what I espouse; namely the Rapture followed by the 7 Year Tribulation and a Millennial rule of Christ before the eternal new earth. Even if I could press my viewpoint it isn't worth splitting hairs; we should all look to the scriptures daily.
If I'm understanding your question correctly, you are asking me about where Jesus said "when they deliver you up," and when this takes place, if the "deliver you up" time period proves that Jesus was speaking of the end-time tribulation period?
My answer is no, and here's why. In Matthew 10:16, Jesus says "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Jesus is sending them out as sheep amongst wolves. He knows what's going to happen to them once they start preaching the gospel, and He tells them what's going to happen in Matthew 10:17-18. They are going to be "delivered up."
Jesus is not talking about the end-time tribulation period here. He is sending His disciples out and telling them that they will be delivered up to the councils (Jewish Councils). And then in Matthew 10:19, Jesus says "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. (This is not talking about the end-time).
In Matthew 24:9, this is to the Jews, not the church.
In Mark 13:9, Jesus says "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them."
What I notice are the words council and synagogues. The word council is literally Sanhedrin, the chief Council of the Jews. Jesus is talking to Jewish people. He is talking directly to His disciples. He is talking directly to His believers, (Jewish believers). Mark 13:11 tells us that they are going to be captured. As for Luke 21:12, this is also to the Jews, not the church.
When dealing with end-time prophecy I think the misunderstanding of the prophecies of the last days is based upon combining Luke's account with Matthew's and Mark's account as if they are the same message. They are not the same message.
...He will give the Kingdom up to the Father that God will be all in all (the only Sovereign of the Kingdom). 1Cor. 15:24
Jesus will rule with His Father forever over the saints and it will be a kingdom of joy, peace, love, power, grace, and righteousness. (Rom.14:17)
God will rule over the kingdom as the only Sovereign. He will rule over heaven and the lake of fire ensuring the blessedness of the saints and the eternal punishment of those under His wrath.
Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world ( John 18:36) It is spiritual and heavenly and also within us.
It is not a Jewish kingdom because Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to another nation. ( Matthew 21:43) (This nation being the saints of God-both Jew and Gentile) Jesus' words were fulfilled in 70 A.D. on the generation that was then present. Matthew 22:7; 23:38; Luke 21:20,24) The Romans surrounded Jerusalem and lay siege to it. They burned the temple and the city to the point of desolation. 1.1 million Jews were killed in this siege. Thousands upon thousands were taken captive and enslaved.
Even though there is a nation called Israel today does not mean that there will be an earthly kingdom with the Messiah. About 25% of the Jews worldwide emigrated to Israel since it was given nation status in 1948. The national archives of the Jews were destroyed in the 70A.D.. This means all of the records of peoples families and lineages. The other tribes of Israel have been scattered all over the world and intermixed with the Gentiles. There are a small percentage of these tribes in Israel now. So we cannot say that the whole nation ahs been regathered. But even if there comes a national regathering of ALL of Israel, this does not confirm that there will be an earthly kingdom with Jesus reigning. His kingdom is one of righteousness where sin does not enter it. This world is sinful and corrupt...
This siege ended the time of the Jews and the OT Mosaic system.
Introduction to eschatology discussion regarding timing of events from Rapture to 2nd Coming (continued).
As stated previously; I wish to look to the Word to explain itself. I also wish to maintain the hope of 1 Thessalonians 5:11 in light of our appearing before the King of Kings. I take the minority opinion that perhaps not all will be Raptured who believe as it appears to be a reward issue and because of certain language related to those in white garments washed in the blood; which appears to indicate those who previously had spotted or wrinkled garments and were not part of those in Ephesians 1:4.
I don't think it prudent to delve too deeply here into that concept; what I will say is that verses like Luke 21:36 and Revelation 3:10 at the very least should cause us to examine ourselves to see if we are saved and the Spirit is communing with us.
We should understand that not all who call themselves Christians truly are saved; and that parables like that of the 10 virgins whether it is an analogy of the church or of unbelieving Israel; whether it speaks of readiness for the Rapture or the Second Coming it certainly is a warning for us all to be ready. We can look to Revelation the same way; it is certainly applicable to those already under persecution and distress even with some unique characteristics to Tribulation events in history.
I am also as I probably made clear in earlier posts pretty dogmatic on taking a literal approach to scripture; and in Revelation taking things as indicated at least in chronological order or at least sequentially. I also emphasize the concept of Predestination in Revelation; as well as showing how great revival and restoration of the nation of Israel are some reasons for this final conflagration and time of terrible judgments. We should not be glib but sober minded when we consider the magnitude of these events. I contend that the church age is still in effect in it's final stages; the end of the age is near.
Jesus Himself teaches this in Matthew 24:13 when He says, "But the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved." Endurance is a major characteristic being developed in each believer through the maturation process. It is only through endurance that the gospel is preached, and it is only through the development of endurance that a believer is able to hold steady through the tribulations and hardships of life to reach the end when all believers will reign with Christ. Paul, in encouraging the Thessalonians concerning the patient waiting for the coming of Christ, writes in 2 Thessalonians 3:5, "Now may the Lord guide your hearts into the love of God, and into the endurance of Christ." Enduring circumstances is a fundamental characteristic of the person who is saved.
Chapter 21 of Luke presents the hardships that will come upon those who belong to Christ in the last days. In our study text, Luke 21:19, Jesus commands His followers to gain their souls through the endurance of these hardships. This statement is parallel to one found in Matthew 24:13, "But the one having endured unto the end shall be saved." Both of these gospel writers present the teaching of Jesus as saying that the one who belongs to Christ will endure unto the end. Patient endurance, according to Jesus, is a characteristic of the one who is saved; it is not the work ethic of the believer.
Jimbob, Thanks for sticking to the point and not wavering or being distracted away by over spiritualized responses. If anyone can show us in Scripture where it specifically states that Jesus said that He will rapture the church before the tribulation, they are welcome to cite these Scriptures. But you and I know that no such Scriptures exist and that the Scripture truly says that the saints will be gathered after the tribulation. 2Thess. 2:1-11, Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:24-27.
A tithe is 10 percent, and Abraham was the first to give 10 percent to Melchizedek in Gen. 14:20. Next in Gen 28 God appears to Jacob at Bethel when Jacob dreamed of the angels going up and down on a ladder. God promised him covenant blessings, and Jacob promised God a tenth of everything granted him Gen. 28:22.
After God brought Israel out of Egypt and divided the land the tribe of Levi did not have a portion of the land, their duty was to the LORD and a tenth/tithe from the other tribes was given to them for their portion and unto the LORD, Num. 18:21-24.
As far as a tithe given to a church, some say it is required, and for others, it is not, tithing is not taught in the New Testament. Some abuse this to make budgets that is or is not being used for the work of the Lord. Some people today struggle to even have food. We see in the New Testament where people give, there is a good example Jesus made just before the Olivet discourse with the widow Luke 21:1-4.
We see in Eph. 4:28 another reason to work that we look over, and we see the early Church selling all they had and giving it to those who had need, Acts 4:34-35 and in 1 Cor. 16:1-3 Paul ask for people to gather up what they could spare to carry to Jerusalem. We don't think about this very much, at that time there was a famine over the whole Mid-East many were starving as many countries are today.
What we give is in our heart, 2 Cor. 9:7 if you see and feel the church you attend is doing good for the congregation helping those who are in need and the neighborhood it is in, pray and let the Holy Spirit in your heart guide you.
We can have assurance from the account of Noah and from the passing over of the Israelites so as they were not afflicted with the plagues of Egypt nor the death of the firstborn. We can rest in God knowing how He parted the Red Sea to have the Israelites pass through on dry land and how God delivered the enemies in Canaan into the hands of the Israelites when the nation entered the promised land to possess all it as God promised (see Joshua 21:43) God fulfilled all fo the promised He had made to the Israelites ( Joshua 23:15)
God is faithful and able to preserve us or rescue us or make us stand in the day of trouble. But we also must remember that our Lord and Paul and Peter said that we will suffer also, be persecuted, arrested, tried legally, and martyred for His Name's sake. Jesus said we would be hated by men just as they hated himself. We should pray for God to prepare us for such hardships that He may allow us to experience. We certainly should pray that we will hold fast in the face of martyrdom.
The fire that brings destruction spoken of in Peter's epistles is pretty disturbing to consider, but I think this firs is intended for the evil unbelievers, not for the believers. When Jesus returns once again with a shout, with the trumpet call, with the voice of an archangel, with a tempest like lightening, with exceeding brightness and manifest glory, we will look up, as He instructs us in Luke 21:28 for our redemption is come. we will be changed (if alive at this time) or resurrrected, if we have died. At that time, we will be glorified and can no longer be harmed by anything that comes upon the earth! Hallelujah!
Adam, I will pray for you as you seek to find out the truth of Scriptures concerning the end times, as I pray that for myself, too.
I plan to believe everything that is plainly and explicitly taught in Scripture concerning the return of Christ and what happens before that, and also not readily embrace ideas that are not.
Or maybe, S. Spencer, you, too, need to be open to seriously considering another's viewpoint by holding it up to what Scripture actually says. I am open to that.
I have given concrete Scriptural citations that Jesus does not come before the Tribulation to rapture believers from 2 Thessalonians 2, Matt. 24 and elsewhere. I have given Scripture citations that warn against being deceived by anyone who says that his coming is at hand ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Luke 21:8. I gave Scripture citations concerning that Jesus coming will not be secret or invisible, but will be seen by everyone, with brightness, trumpet sounds, shout, etc. Can you believe these Scriptures? Or will you continue to hold onto your belief s in a secret, invisible, imminent pre-trib rapture?
I am willing to change my beliefs when Scripture plainly teaches a correction to my view. Are you?
I am not trying to be difficult here, but you seem to feel so free to discredit my views or approach, but I do not see a willingness on your part to truly consider what I have said and hold it up to Scripture.
I pray that we both will remain open to learning from one another as the Spirit leads us. I pray that we will apply our minds to studying Scripture in the best way we are able and not accuse another of being ignorant in one's understanding, as you have to me. Let tje love of Christ guide us and the fellowship of the Spirit always be foremost between us.
Hi Burney. "Divers" is just an old spelling for 'diverse'. And as you know, 'diverse' means 'of different kinds or forms'. So in Luke 21:11, "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences...", would mean 'there would be high intensity earthquakes in many different locations throughout the World.'
Thanks for your reply, here is a short version that may explain.
I tried to keep it short, my understanding of scripture is there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, also if rapture means being taken to heaven pre, mid, or post-tribulation, scripture does not support that. Much of that is based on the 70th week in Daniel my understanding has been fulfilled.
In scripture, the gathering of the saint's destination will be in Israel not heaven, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Luke 21:24, the same place the saints will be when Satan is released Rev. 20:7-10 when the armies of Satan will be devoured with fire. Then the final judgment.
Jesus's second coming is to set up the kingdom and to reign on earth, Rev. 19:11-21. On that day His feet shall stand on the ground from where He left, Acts 1:9Zech. 14:4.
When Jesus returns, every eye shall see Matt. 24:27Rev. 1:7 With a great sound of a trumpet, Matt. 24:30-31, At the last trump, 1 Cor. 15:52, With the trump of God, 1 Thes. 4:16, The seventh angel sounded the last trump Rev. 11:15-19.
Then the wrath of God when Jesus returns, Rev. 6:15-17. And as we see in Revelation there are two resurrections, the first, all who are resurrected will reign with Jesus on earth, not heaven.
Hope this makes sense, I understand there are different understandings, but it is good to have a loving and respectful discussion.
It is interesting; I have never considered the same overcoming statement is for all the churches mentioned. There appears to be a qualifier with the Thyatira church as to keeping WORKS until the end; for they will have power over the nations. It seems to me that only a sector of the entire church of true believers has the privilege to rule as "kings and priests". Clearly there is a specific crown for martyrdom and other virtues of those who are longsuffering. Some on the other hand such as Smyrna may make it "as though through the fire" ( 1 Cor. 3:15) so that the second death itself can be averted. There are some who don't seem to find a difference in the "Bema Seat" judgment and the Great White Throne Judgement. Eschatologically speaking the Millennium is to be taken seriously. Still; as believers the whole issue of reward sometimes seems underappreciated (except for the wrong emphasis with the prosperity preachers). ( Heb. 11:6).
What is also noteworthy here is that the overcomer is involving certain individuals within each church; in other words only a subset of the "professing" believers are "possessing" ones of the Holy Ghost. This should stand as a stern warning so that we may do as 2 Cor. 13:5 states that we should "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". Fruit must be in our lives that show that we are truly saved. We must also make sure that our garments remain unspotted from the world ( Rev. 3:4 and elsewhere). It could be argued that those whose garments are stained may not make it in the rapture; and some have to get purified then. That assumes the rapture is a reward issue ( Rev. 3:10; Luke 21:36). If it isn't then we can certainly say that most believers aren't praying that too often. Or; alternatively we could assume that if anyone IS a true believer they will wake up in time to hear the spiritual alarm bells that His coming is near.
However, Jesus talked about how bad people would become in the last days. ( Luke 21:8-28) It's just like Sodom and Gomorrah out there. And Paul talked about it too. ( Romans 1:18-32)
Don't cha know that quoting scripture is the new Hate Speech????? People want to sin and not feel bad about it. These people have been given over to a reprobate mind and their hearts are hardened. Everything evil is considered good, and everything good is considered evil. They don't want to hear the Gospel. Meanwhile, the Christ-deniers are setting themselves up to be the good guys. Millions of people are being deceived.
All we CAN do is pray for people, 'cause talking to them is like talking to a brick wall. So if I don't warn someone in person & verbally- am I still responsible??: "his blood will I require at thine hand".
The Euphrates is drying up this very moment, and will be ready for the kings of the east to cross over, too invade Israel, Ezekiel 38, at the sixth trumpet, Luke 21:20-24. There are many articles, video about the Euphrates, look it up. It is not simply symbolic because it will happen on earth, and is happening right now. That alone should strengthen your faith in God. If purely symbolic, why would God have us be Watchman, observing the signs of the times, if there is nothing to see?
"Satan and the locust armies are thrust upon the scene" is at the fifth trumpet, Revelation 9:1-11. I spy the fifth trumpet allegory when America attacked itself and rushed off the kill those without the seal of God in their foreheads (Muslims). If these are indeed the end-times, then all of the signs should reveal themselves in broad daylight. Knowing the narrative inside and out is critical.
The saints are sealed before the sixth trumpet, not the fifth.
It is the man of sin, anti-christ, who places the abomination of desolation at the sixth trumpet. You said it well with your allegoric slain dragon. The sons of Joseph are going to experience 539 BC again. All of Babylon's plagues come in one day, Revelation 18:8. It is similar to one that languishes from the effects of radiation, baldness and clean teeth.
Principle 2: Prophecies related to Second Coming and/or the Rapture.
I would say that despite there being no clear prophetic event showing the date of the Rapture; there certainly are signs of it's imminency; as stated before largely related to the state of the church today. If we are not producing the "salt and light" ( Matthew 5:13-14) that we should then we shouldn't be surprised when the secular society we live in falls apart. I have stated before as well that the basic lack of respect for a covenant marriage bond and subsequent aftermath of divorce and remarriages with the damage incurred has been a largely successful attempt of Satan to push boundaries further in other areas of immorality. As I discussed with someone in church today; the fear of God is something that causes conviction of the nonbeliever if indeed we are walking in the Spirit of God. If we refuse to honor Holiness in our personal lives and create a God (or Christ) in some dumbed down version suiting our imaginations then we are not going to even deserve the blessing of being persecuted and forfeit any resulting reward. Just how far we have gone or whether or not it is actually possible for any large scale revival or repentance is something only God knows.
There are parables relating to the profitable vs. unprofitable servant; and the wise and unwise virgins that at first glance appear to reference the Rapture; but also may have some application for the Second Coming. Since BOTH events are getting closer to appearing we should of course expect that most have reference to both. That gets me into point 3.
Principle Three: Who is actually raptured? Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 certainly give us pause to consider if not individuals that are going to be Raptured; the church typifying people that are going to be taken out when He comes for His bride. The question of whether it is a reward or salvation issue is worth investigating.
You asked: How does Satan deceive this whole world? Rev.12:9
Revelation was written in the first century of Christian Era, at that time the Devil had already deceived mankind for around 4000 years, even JESUS was tempted by the Devil I suppose in Neguev, but Satan still had not 7 heads; The 7 heads was still in the embryo.
But now, in this current time of Apocalypse, around 2000 years AC, the body of the Devil will be completed with 7 heads, and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his 7 heads.His new name now is red Dragon-Rev.12:9-,and his TAIL drew (shall cast down)the third part of the STARS of heaven to the earth.(STARS? who are the STARS? Job 38:4&7 combined with Daniel 12:3).
When the red Dragon-Rev.13:11-gives his POWER,and his Throne in Jerusalem,and great Authority to the Beast of sea, upon which rides de great whore-the Roman Catholic Church-then the holy city will be trodden by the Gentiles- Luke 21:24 combined with Rev.11:2, and he will join Catholicism and Judaism(iron and clay- Daniel 2), then the body of Satan/the Dragon will grow exceedingly, but it will grow even more with the adhesion of evangelical churches whose angels are fallen or spiritually dead, these will form or constitute the TAIL of the Dragon, these will believe in the false messiah, the Beast that will rise from the earth(Israel, the clay, the dry land), a false lamb, a false messiah- John 5:43-47 combined from Revelation 13:11, then the Red Dragon's body will be complete with his 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL. By the way, the origin of the false messiah is of the 10 tribs of Israel,especifically of the trib of Dan- Genesis 49:17.
He will exercise all the power of the first Beast before him,will cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast(of sea)whose deadly wound was healed.
And he will do great wonders,so that will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of...
Greetings in Christ JESUS
In fact it is very sad, and it is happening in whole world, and the worst it to still come for all nations. Read what JESUS said and warning the whole world by His word: Luke 21:22-36. Take a look.
By the way, there is no effect without cause. See this one example below, among many other since ancient time:
2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the Lord GOD of their fathers sent to them by His messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because He had compassion on His people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of GOD, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people,till THERE WAS NO REMEDY. (Now it is not and will not be different, THERE IS NO REMEDY, unfortunately.)
Romans 2:5-11
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
2Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Luke 21:34-36,
"34And take heed to yourselves (believers), lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
A few points on the above.
1. How is it possible that Jesus warns us not be in a state of pleasure and carings of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God? How is it possible to be involved in matters of this life when christians will not accept the beast's mark and eventually won't be able even to survive in such conditions?
2. Please pay attention to verse 36, "... that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass..."
3. I have read in older posts that God will preserve us like He did with Hebrews in Egypt. But at that time they were all concetrated at a place, the Land of Goshen. In the future we will be dispersed throughout the whole earth, it is a different thing altogether.
To me it is clear that the time when Jesus comes to take His Bribe is at a different time from His 2nd coming on earth. The condition of the world in those two cases will be completely different.
At the rapture the world is the ususal normal world. People will be involved with their everyday life, not fearing for what comes next, unprepared. Why? Because life will be as usual. Matthew 24:36-40.
On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophies will be occuring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economical system will collapse(the Babylon), Luke 21:25-26 and events on Revelation
2 different conditions on earth, 2 diferent events.
GBU
It's very sad. It wont be long and this is truly coming Luke 21:12
As a guy by the screen name of Cowboy always use to post here: "We need to stay prayed up!"
GBU
Part 4
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36 John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44 Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
See Part 5
We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.
Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,
Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3 Matt. 12:36 John 5:28-29 Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14
We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.
We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18
Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44 Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.
After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57 Acts 9:3-15 Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25
God bless,
RLW
There seems to be a different fate; for instance for the wicked servant in Luke 19:22 as compared with Matthew 18:32. The allegory in Matthew in particular seems to indicate someone who is lost; the parable in Luke separates the fate of losing the talent buried in the ground from the fate of those who would not have Him "rule over them." in verse 27. That would seem to indicate someone perhaps a Jew who physically makes it into the Millennium as a sheep and those destroyed the goats at the judgment immediately after the Tribulation.
To differentiate parables into one category or situation is tempting to due to fit a particular doctrinal viewpoint; but clearly there are applications for all wicked and righteous; as well as various rewards or lack thereof for His saints. There are applications for Israel as a nation; as well as the church. The focus certainly is on Israel as to where the events of the end times will occur; and the affects of what goes on in the end times will be felt throughout the earth.
The original question brought up the idea of how God would judge eternally with stripes as it were which could be metaphorical for punishments in hell; but again chastisement as a concept is opposed to wrath. Since He only chastises His own others are left to reap the reward of their doings. There will be varying degrees of punishment in hell; and no doubt those who are reprobate knowing something about God will have harsher sentences.
In summary; it is better to be disciplined now than suffer in hell; but it for His people there can be suffering inflicted by Satan if we persist in rebellion. ( 1 Cor. 5:5). We can be as the person in Proverbs 5:14 almost ruined in the assembly; or approaching death as in Psalm 88. Therefore we should be as David and quickly repent rather than others who stubbornly refuse correction and reap accordingly (such as Solomon). We all should have the mindset of Luke 21:36 but most believers don't.
Today; a brother from my church discussed what He said was a time the Lord told him not to fear; and today it seems like confirmation as I was admonishing him in much the same way. Specifically; it was related to the nearness of His coming as well as several things related to what appears to be the imminent demise of our country as judgment draws nigh.
The Lord has held back the day of the Lord with His great patience to this point but it will come suddenly ( Habakkuk 2:3 and many other N.T. verses). Jesus also states that people will be buying; selling; giving in marriage etc. much like the time of Noah when He returns ( Luke 17:27 also referring to the days of Lot.)
I remembered how 40 years ago many were talking about giving up everything and standing on a mountain as they were convinced Christ would arrive by 1988. Clearly that didn't happen. We also discussed the timing of when the last generation actually begins; the Antichrist and other issues. What I would say characterizes both of us is a hunger and thirst to preach on the end times which for me is something I feel I have put on a shelf for most of my adulthood since the early 80's.
These days spiritual warfare is harder than ever; again something which we seemed to have gone through. We cannot afford to leave any sin unforgiven; as the enemy is ready to pounce on us with any weak links in the chain; and also the fear of death needs to be overcome through trusting Christ. That can't; of course be done without total surrender to Christ and having good fellowship is a key especially as we see the Day of the Lord coming ( Heb. 10:25).
I would venture to say that there are very few left who are living out a totally surrendured life to Christ as charactarized by the Laodicean church. We should test ourselves to see if we are in the faith now ( 2 Cor. 13:5); if anything to flee the Tribulation as well as assure that we are saved from hell.
I feel like a broken record here--or I could say CD but even that is retro nowadays. Anyway the sixth seal shows that everyone is aware of judgments being bought against the world by God and Christ ( Rev. 6:15-17). That hasn't happened yet clearly; and that is a result of course of the martyrs of the 5th Seal and reaping what they sowed in that regard. All the seals are personally opened by Christ and are therefore preceding the book itself being opened. The first seal in fact is judgment read these verses
2 Thessalonians 2:11
Daniel 8:23
Psalm 55:21
Daniel 8:25
Luke 21:35
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Daniel 9:27
So there will then be a time unlike today when there are no atheists; there will be only God and Satan worshippers; although men will worship demons through the trumpet judgments despite knowing the obvious that they are choosing that over the true God and what are increasing intensities of judgments.
More to come.
According to 1 Corinthians 15:22 at the last trump the Lord comes for His church. Some say that Matthew 24:36 is referring to that day that no man knows the day and hour as being the Jewish feast of Trumpets. There could be something to that; with Christ fulfilling the Spring feasts already; namely the Passover lamb sacrificed for us; and the Pentecost ascension which; by the way was always celebrated on the "8th day" of the week.
As my last post indicates; there is little talk today among most professing believers of the Rapture. We see what could be an analogy of a separation or Rapture of some in Luke 12:45 where the watchmen is beaten by his fellow sorkers. There is even some say that same pattern in Song of Solomon 5:7.
Luke 21:36 instructs us to pray that we are worthy to escape all these things and to stand before the Son of Man. The original language uses the word "agonia" or something to that affect. Clearly; not all believers are praying in such a manner which questions their walk with God as to either their salvation or their position of readiness. I have probably presented some ideas last year as to whether all Christians are raptured or if some have to go through some of the Tribulation. What is certain is that these warnings; along with Revelation 3:10 are for those who are awake and waiting which I contended in my last posting that Malachi 3:16 spoke of.
Whatever our eschatology; fearing God and anticipating His arrival isn't restricted to those who hold a Pretribulational and Premillenial viewpoint. I have fellowshipped with Amillenials and Post Millenials who had more conviction about Christ coming as well as the terrible judgments on the earth than those who claim what I espouse; namely the Rapture followed by the 7 Year Tribulation and a Millennial rule of Christ before the eternal new earth. Even if I could press my viewpoint it isn't worth splitting hairs; we should all look to the scriptures daily.
If I'm understanding your question correctly, you are asking me about where Jesus said "when they deliver you up," and when this takes place, if the "deliver you up" time period proves that Jesus was speaking of the end-time tribulation period?
My answer is no, and here's why. In Matthew 10:16, Jesus says "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Jesus is sending them out as sheep amongst wolves. He knows what's going to happen to them once they start preaching the gospel, and He tells them what's going to happen in Matthew 10:17-18. They are going to be "delivered up."
Jesus is not talking about the end-time tribulation period here. He is sending His disciples out and telling them that they will be delivered up to the councils (Jewish Councils). And then in Matthew 10:19, Jesus says "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. (This is not talking about the end-time).
In Matthew 24:9, this is to the Jews, not the church.
In Mark 13:9, Jesus says "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them."
What I notice are the words council and synagogues. The word council is literally Sanhedrin, the chief Council of the Jews. Jesus is talking to Jewish people. He is talking directly to His disciples. He is talking directly to His believers, (Jewish believers). Mark 13:11 tells us that they are going to be captured. As for Luke 21:12, this is also to the Jews, not the church.
When dealing with end-time prophecy I think the misunderstanding of the prophecies of the last days is based upon combining Luke's account with Matthew's and Mark's account as if they are the same message. They are not the same message.
Blessings to you!
Part 2
...He will give the Kingdom up to the Father that God will be all in all (the only Sovereign of the Kingdom). 1Cor. 15:24
Jesus will rule with His Father forever over the saints and it will be a kingdom of joy, peace, love, power, grace, and righteousness. (Rom.14:17)
God will rule over the kingdom as the only Sovereign. He will rule over heaven and the lake of fire ensuring the blessedness of the saints and the eternal punishment of those under His wrath.
Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom was not of this world ( John 18:36) It is spiritual and heavenly and also within us.
It is not a Jewish kingdom because Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken from them and given to another nation. ( Matthew 21:43) (This nation being the saints of God-both Jew and Gentile) Jesus' words were fulfilled in 70 A.D. on the generation that was then present. Matthew 22:7; 23:38; Luke 21:20,24) The Romans surrounded Jerusalem and lay siege to it. They burned the temple and the city to the point of desolation. 1.1 million Jews were killed in this siege. Thousands upon thousands were taken captive and enslaved.
Even though there is a nation called Israel today does not mean that there will be an earthly kingdom with the Messiah. About 25% of the Jews worldwide emigrated to Israel since it was given nation status in 1948. The national archives of the Jews were destroyed in the 70A.D.. This means all of the records of peoples families and lineages. The other tribes of Israel have been scattered all over the world and intermixed with the Gentiles. There are a small percentage of these tribes in Israel now. So we cannot say that the whole nation ahs been regathered. But even if there comes a national regathering of ALL of Israel, this does not confirm that there will be an earthly kingdom with Jesus reigning. His kingdom is one of righteousness where sin does not enter it. This world is sinful and corrupt...
This siege ended the time of the Jews and the OT Mosaic system.
As stated previously; I wish to look to the Word to explain itself. I also wish to maintain the hope of 1 Thessalonians 5:11 in light of our appearing before the King of Kings. I take the minority opinion that perhaps not all will be Raptured who believe as it appears to be a reward issue and because of certain language related to those in white garments washed in the blood; which appears to indicate those who previously had spotted or wrinkled garments and were not part of those in Ephesians 1:4.
I don't think it prudent to delve too deeply here into that concept; what I will say is that verses like Luke 21:36 and Revelation 3:10 at the very least should cause us to examine ourselves to see if we are saved and the Spirit is communing with us.
We should understand that not all who call themselves Christians truly are saved; and that parables like that of the 10 virgins whether it is an analogy of the church or of unbelieving Israel; whether it speaks of readiness for the Rapture or the Second Coming it certainly is a warning for us all to be ready. We can look to Revelation the same way; it is certainly applicable to those already under persecution and distress even with some unique characteristics to Tribulation events in history.
I am also as I probably made clear in earlier posts pretty dogmatic on taking a literal approach to scripture; and in Revelation taking things as indicated at least in chronological order or at least sequentially. I also emphasize the concept of Predestination in Revelation; as well as showing how great revival and restoration of the nation of Israel are some reasons for this final conflagration and time of terrible judgments. We should not be glib but sober minded when we consider the magnitude of these events. I contend that the church age is still in effect in it's final stages; the end of the age is near.
Jesus Himself teaches this in Matthew 24:13 when He says, "But the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved." Endurance is a major characteristic being developed in each believer through the maturation process. It is only through endurance that the gospel is preached, and it is only through the development of endurance that a believer is able to hold steady through the tribulations and hardships of life to reach the end when all believers will reign with Christ. Paul, in encouraging the Thessalonians concerning the patient waiting for the coming of Christ, writes in 2 Thessalonians 3:5, "Now may the Lord guide your hearts into the love of God, and into the endurance of Christ." Enduring circumstances is a fundamental characteristic of the person who is saved.
Chapter 21 of Luke presents the hardships that will come upon those who belong to Christ in the last days. In our study text, Luke 21:19, Jesus commands His followers to gain their souls through the endurance of these hardships. This statement is parallel to one found in Matthew 24:13, "But the one having endured unto the end shall be saved." Both of these gospel writers present the teaching of Jesus as saying that the one who belongs to Christ will endure unto the end. Patient endurance, according to Jesus, is a characteristic of the one who is saved; it is not the work ethic of the believer.
Blessings to you in Christ!
A tithe is 10 percent, and Abraham was the first to give 10 percent to Melchizedek in Gen. 14:20. Next in Gen 28 God appears to Jacob at Bethel when Jacob dreamed of the angels going up and down on a ladder. God promised him covenant blessings, and Jacob promised God a tenth of everything granted him Gen. 28:22.
After God brought Israel out of Egypt and divided the land the tribe of Levi did not have a portion of the land, their duty was to the LORD and a tenth/tithe from the other tribes was given to them for their portion and unto the LORD, Num. 18:21-24.
As far as a tithe given to a church, some say it is required, and for others, it is not, tithing is not taught in the New Testament. Some abuse this to make budgets that is or is not being used for the work of the Lord. Some people today struggle to even have food. We see in the New Testament where people give, there is a good example Jesus made just before the Olivet discourse with the widow Luke 21:1-4.
We see in Eph. 4:28 another reason to work that we look over, and we see the early Church selling all they had and giving it to those who had need, Acts 4:34-35 and in 1 Cor. 16:1-3 Paul ask for people to gather up what they could spare to carry to Jerusalem. We don't think about this very much, at that time there was a famine over the whole Mid-East many were starving as many countries are today.
What we give is in our heart, 2 Cor. 9:7 if you see and feel the church you attend is doing good for the congregation helping those who are in need and the neighborhood it is in, pray and let the Holy Spirit in your heart guide you.
This is my understanding may it help.
God bless,
RLW
We can have assurance from the account of Noah and from the passing over of the Israelites so as they were not afflicted with the plagues of Egypt nor the death of the firstborn. We can rest in God knowing how He parted the Red Sea to have the Israelites pass through on dry land and how God delivered the enemies in Canaan into the hands of the Israelites when the nation entered the promised land to possess all it as God promised (see Joshua 21:43) God fulfilled all fo the promised He had made to the Israelites ( Joshua 23:15)
God is faithful and able to preserve us or rescue us or make us stand in the day of trouble. But we also must remember that our Lord and Paul and Peter said that we will suffer also, be persecuted, arrested, tried legally, and martyred for His Name's sake. Jesus said we would be hated by men just as they hated himself. We should pray for God to prepare us for such hardships that He may allow us to experience. We certainly should pray that we will hold fast in the face of martyrdom.
The fire that brings destruction spoken of in Peter's epistles is pretty disturbing to consider, but I think this firs is intended for the evil unbelievers, not for the believers. When Jesus returns once again with a shout, with the trumpet call, with the voice of an archangel, with a tempest like lightening, with exceeding brightness and manifest glory, we will look up, as He instructs us in Luke 21:28 for our redemption is come. we will be changed (if alive at this time) or resurrrected, if we have died. At that time, we will be glorified and can no longer be harmed by anything that comes upon the earth! Hallelujah!
Adam, I will pray for you as you seek to find out the truth of Scriptures concerning the end times, as I pray that for myself, too.
I plan to believe everything that is plainly and explicitly taught in Scripture concerning the return of Christ and what happens before that, and also not readily embrace ideas that are not.
I have given concrete Scriptural citations that Jesus does not come before the Tribulation to rapture believers from 2 Thessalonians 2, Matt. 24 and elsewhere. I have given Scripture citations that warn against being deceived by anyone who says that his coming is at hand ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Luke 21:8. I gave Scripture citations concerning that Jesus coming will not be secret or invisible, but will be seen by everyone, with brightness, trumpet sounds, shout, etc. Can you believe these Scriptures? Or will you continue to hold onto your belief s in a secret, invisible, imminent pre-trib rapture?
I am willing to change my beliefs when Scripture plainly teaches a correction to my view. Are you?
I am not trying to be difficult here, but you seem to feel so free to discredit my views or approach, but I do not see a willingness on your part to truly consider what I have said and hold it up to Scripture.
I pray that we both will remain open to learning from one another as the Spirit leads us. I pray that we will apply our minds to studying Scripture in the best way we are able and not accuse another of being ignorant in one's understanding, as you have to me. Let tje love of Christ guide us and the fellowship of the Spirit always be foremost between us.
Thanks for your reply, here is a short version that may explain.
I tried to keep it short, my understanding of scripture is there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, also if rapture means being taken to heaven pre, mid, or post-tribulation, scripture does not support that. Much of that is based on the 70th week in Daniel my understanding has been fulfilled.
In scripture, the gathering of the saint's destination will be in Israel not heaven, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Luke 21:24, the same place the saints will be when Satan is released Rev. 20:7-10 when the armies of Satan will be devoured with fire. Then the final judgment.
Jesus's second coming is to set up the kingdom and to reign on earth, Rev. 19:11-21. On that day His feet shall stand on the ground from where He left, Acts 1:9 Zech. 14:4.
When Jesus returns, every eye shall see Matt. 24:27 Rev. 1:7 With a great sound of a trumpet, Matt. 24:30-31, At the last trump, 1 Cor. 15:52, With the trump of God, 1 Thes. 4:16, The seventh angel sounded the last trump Rev. 11:15-19.
Then the wrath of God when Jesus returns, Rev. 6:15-17. And as we see in Revelation there are two resurrections, the first, all who are resurrected will reign with Jesus on earth, not heaven.
Hope this makes sense, I understand there are different understandings, but it is good to have a loving and respectful discussion.
God bless,
RLW
Psalms 34:19
Luke 21:12-15, context Luke 21, Matthew 10:16-20, context Matthew 10, Mark 13:9-11, context Mark 13,
Luke 12:8, 2Timothy 3:12, Romans 8:22-39
Hopefully these strengthen you
What is also noteworthy here is that the overcomer is involving certain individuals within each church; in other words only a subset of the "professing" believers are "possessing" ones of the Holy Ghost. This should stand as a stern warning so that we may do as 2 Cor. 13:5 states that we should "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". Fruit must be in our lives that show that we are truly saved. We must also make sure that our garments remain unspotted from the world ( Rev. 3:4 and elsewhere). It could be argued that those whose garments are stained may not make it in the rapture; and some have to get purified then. That assumes the rapture is a reward issue ( Rev. 3:10; Luke 21:36). If it isn't then we can certainly say that most believers aren't praying that too often. Or; alternatively we could assume that if anyone IS a true believer they will wake up in time to hear the spiritual alarm bells that His coming is near.
Agape; Rich P
John 17, James 1, James 2,
Matthew 5:23,24,44, Matthew 6:5-34, Mark 11:24, Luke 18:1-14, Matthew 17:15-21, Mark 9:17-29,
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21:36,
Hope these are helpful
However, Jesus talked about how bad people would become in the last days. ( Luke 21:8-28) It's just like Sodom and Gomorrah out there. And Paul talked about it too. ( Romans 1:18-32)
Don't cha know that quoting scripture is the new Hate Speech????? People want to sin and not feel bad about it. These people have been given over to a reprobate mind and their hearts are hardened. Everything evil is considered good, and everything good is considered evil. They don't want to hear the Gospel. Meanwhile, the Christ-deniers are setting themselves up to be the good guys. Millions of people are being deceived.
All we CAN do is pray for people, 'cause talking to them is like talking to a brick wall. So if I don't warn someone in person & verbally- am I still responsible??: "his blood will I require at thine hand".
The Euphrates is drying up this very moment, and will be ready for the kings of the east to cross over, too invade Israel, Ezekiel 38, at the sixth trumpet, Luke 21:20-24. There are many articles, video about the Euphrates, look it up. It is not simply symbolic because it will happen on earth, and is happening right now. That alone should strengthen your faith in God. If purely symbolic, why would God have us be Watchman, observing the signs of the times, if there is nothing to see?
"Satan and the locust armies are thrust upon the scene" is at the fifth trumpet, Revelation 9:1-11. I spy the fifth trumpet allegory when America attacked itself and rushed off the kill those without the seal of God in their foreheads (Muslims). If these are indeed the end-times, then all of the signs should reveal themselves in broad daylight. Knowing the narrative inside and out is critical.
The saints are sealed before the sixth trumpet, not the fifth.
It is the man of sin, anti-christ, who places the abomination of desolation at the sixth trumpet. You said it well with your allegoric slain dragon. The sons of Joseph are going to experience 539 BC again. All of Babylon's plagues come in one day, Revelation 18:8. It is similar to one that languishes from the effects of radiation, baldness and clean teeth.
Principle 2: Prophecies related to Second Coming and/or the Rapture.
I would say that despite there being no clear prophetic event showing the date of the Rapture; there certainly are signs of it's imminency; as stated before largely related to the state of the church today. If we are not producing the "salt and light" ( Matthew 5:13-14) that we should then we shouldn't be surprised when the secular society we live in falls apart. I have stated before as well that the basic lack of respect for a covenant marriage bond and subsequent aftermath of divorce and remarriages with the damage incurred has been a largely successful attempt of Satan to push boundaries further in other areas of immorality. As I discussed with someone in church today; the fear of God is something that causes conviction of the nonbeliever if indeed we are walking in the Spirit of God. If we refuse to honor Holiness in our personal lives and create a God (or Christ) in some dumbed down version suiting our imaginations then we are not going to even deserve the blessing of being persecuted and forfeit any resulting reward. Just how far we have gone or whether or not it is actually possible for any large scale revival or repentance is something only God knows.
There are parables relating to the profitable vs. unprofitable servant; and the wise and unwise virgins that at first glance appear to reference the Rapture; but also may have some application for the Second Coming. Since BOTH events are getting closer to appearing we should of course expect that most have reference to both. That gets me into point 3.
Principle Three: Who is actually raptured? Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 certainly give us pause to consider if not individuals that are going to be Raptured; the church typifying people that are going to be taken out when He comes for His bride. The question of whether it is a reward or salvation issue is worth investigating.