Discuss Matthew 3 Page 6

As I, you.

In His Love, GiGi

Hi, there again.

For me, it is clear that Jesus commanded tat it be done, so I was happy to obey His command.

Dear all, dont forget in all this wisdom and belives,

Matthew 3:13

Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

What was the meaning of that? And how can it not be necessary?

And we need to understand that Paul was with ppl who have a lot of different styles, and he meet a lot of ppl who was full of disbelief and mm. And at last Paul said in

1 Chorinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power

And after in

1 Chorinthians 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

2 Chorinthians 11 21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.

22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

Paul could do anything too save some ppl to the Lord. God bless u all in Christ

Evan Paul get baptised: sorry cant find it today.

Hi Gigi Ephesians 4:4 There is one body one spirit, one hope one baptism one faith and one God this is in the Age of grace that we are living in. I myself am not against water baptism but in our Age Romans 10:9+10 is whats written to be

believed and get the job done internally. But if someone feels they gotta do both o.k.

Yes, Rick;

I've been blessed to see my dear son grow up (now 34) instead of dying from newborn sepsis. so, yes, God delivered Him. He could have taken him to Him, also. I had prayed in the hall that I will accept His will either way because my son really was His, not ultimately mine.

Sis Its a privilege to communicate with and know you, you talk with your heart.

Rick

As far as what is recorded in Scripture, baptism was not discussed at the council in Jerusalem. All of the apostles baptized new believers in water. It was not a part of the O.T. law.

Sis Wasn't looking for that sounds like great deliverance amen.

Thanks Rick, but I don't think I need to explain anymore than that my pastor and a fellow believer in my congregation laid hands on me a prayed for me to differs, more empowerment from the Holy Spirit. Everyone's experience of this different, but it did the done in a biblical way. you are welcome to search my post where I laid hands on my newborn son who was very ill spoke words to him that the Spirit gave me to say to him. There was an instant change in his circumstances, and he recovered. The nurses had said that he was shutting down and they could not get into his veins to get a draw and do a spinal tap. His skin was all mottled blue and pink and he was breathing shallowly. !the moment I laid my hand on his chest and spoke to him, his skin returned to normal coloring, his veins opened up, and his breathing returned to normal. All the staff noticed it. So, there you go! Praise God! I do not claim to have a gift of healing, or any other gifts that would be considered "signs and wonders". I just do what I'm moved to do in circumstances. God does the rest.

Have a wonderful night, Rick. It has been good "talking" with you today.

Gigi Hello again I know a man who was struck with an illness he couldn't keep down food at all sent to hospital and was going down fast a believer went in and prayed for him, left called up another believer who was into homeopathic stuff, she went in and started slowly feeding him black strap molasses and one herb, two days later he walked out recovered. I also know a leader that when three mile island in pa. nuclear facility had big problems went there they ask why do you want in he point blank said I'm hear to pray for this to stop. They left him in it did. See these things aren't coincidental they are displayed power available to the believers in our day and time. We are taught to believe by action then see not I'll believe when i see, that's a cop out. God Bless got to go for now Remember your Gods best and the devils pest. LOL

Gigi There is only one belief system or religion in the world that the all truth was made known that is Christianity and everything that a person has been given when born again. In all other religions there are higher levels of belief, so many steps where this or that get closer to higher power, holy water?, climb this holy mountain, chant this long, you name it and in th Church epistle Paul address it all. Paul's calling card was not just what he said, 1 Corinthians 1:4 demonstration of spirit and of power the word power [dunamis spiritual ability displayed]. Ephesians 1:19 exceeding greatness of His dunamis in us you and me who believe. Question you said you were ministered to laying on of hands is what I understand is God telling me first to move to get information on whether the problem is physical or spiritual and what to do, actually this fits into the category of word of knowledge information of whats going on, word of wisdom action to carry out to solve the problem. These people on tv. no dice its a great counterfeit because it is not guessing at all it is not analytical.

Page two coming.

And I believe that the Holy Spirit has guided and kept the church through the ages. I do not think that I am more knowledgeable or true in doctrine than those who worked alongside the apostles and bishops (Who the apostles chose and laid hands upon to commission them). God appointed them to be leaders of the church, and we should honor them as such, considering what they have written (thankfully we have some of their writings still) and comparing it to God's word, just like we are doing with each other. I just happen to believe that these early bishops and leaders of the church knew much better what was being taught and practiced in the early church than we could ever know and I think their theology was most likely much more accurate than ours. You are right, Scripture isn't for private interpretation. One should not neglect what has been said about Scripture from the early years up to now. God has placed many godly teachers along the journey.

It seems that we probably differ quite a bit on our view on this, so I do think that we have done well in wrestling with each others ideas (in a healthy way) in a discerning manner. I am ready to let this thread of conversation go for now. I trust that the Holy Spirit will work in each of us what truth He wants us to know from this.

Blessings, Brother.

Hello, Rick

I think the same, we are Christians not hyphenated-Christians, say, Baptist-Christian. Lutheran-Christian, born again-Christian, spirit-filled -Christian, non-denominational-Christian. I believe that God places us into the body of believers He knows will be best; sometimes for a long time, sometimes for a short time.

Gigi I was water baptised at 13 years old, I was born again at 21 years old, my simple question is this why would I have to to something external when I'm already spiritual clean internally. I am not opposed to water baptism but spiritually the individual won't be changed until they confess Romans 10:9+10 and believe and walk. When the apostle Paul was born again and went to Jerusalem this is what they fought over old testament law whether circumcision or water baptism or what you ate or who you ate with all legalistic practices. If I go to a church and the place looks all nice with nice flowers but no rightly divided word of God, so what. If I go to a house fellowship and someones teaching Hot Bible and your spiritually energized I know where I'm going. Also Im a great believer in judge not for thou shalt be judged, I lived next door to a witch and a warlock supposedly only God knows there hearts, had the privilege of sharing some bible, when they moved they were blessed to have us as neighbors because we didn't judge them. We don't know if down the road they will remember and run into another believer walking in love and then they change.

Thanks, Rick, for all of your dialogue with me. I appreciate a good discussion. The early church leaders, apostles, bishops, etc. wrote often to congregations they were overseeing. They also wrote a great deal of letters back and forth among leaders to look at teachings from every angle, even when there was much agreement, but some slight differences. The church had to wrestle with how to teach on Jesus' dual nature. Some heretics were saying he was only human, others, only divine, others incarnating only in a spiritual body. Other leaders were communicating with one another, trying to understand how He was distinct from the Father but also One, and what was meant as His divine essence and compared it to that of the Father. These leaders in the early church were important for the body of Christ. They sought spiritual help from the Spirit to try to grasp some of the "mysteries" Paul often spoke to. They would come together and conference over such matters and try to come to a consensus. This is how the first creeds were formulated, and then these creeds were taught to believers and used in worship services as a proclamation of Truth corporately held by the congregations. Bishops of Asia Minor, such as Clement, Polycarp, Ignatius, and Irenaeus, (from the Antioch church, met with Bishops from Northern Africa, Greece & Macedonia, Rome, Spain, and Brittany. (Not all at the same time, nor every time). They had quite a charge upon them to defend and teach the true faith delivered by Jesus to the apostles. They didn't always agree, but they endeavored to engage with one another to bring true understanding of the Truth of Jesus Christ. So, we are in good company!

Gigi Have fun with this they are identified through the original writings, have you ever stood in a line of ten people and

the first one told the second one something and by the time the story got to the last one it entirely changed. In some cases that happened scripturally. If martin luther who got justification by faith not by works right would see what happened to

what he started he'd flip. I'm not a lutheran, methodist,protestant, baptist, and the list goes on and on. I'm a christian that's what Gods Word says, that's is what we were called in Antioch of syria because believers walking around boldly said I have christ in me, which is a significant detail they didn't say Jesus, they said christ. Were Having fun now.

Sis That gets back to rightly divided doctrine, and No private interpretation which has been handed down through the ages. I do what I do because it works not because its a nice head trip, Jesus Christ walked and talked in the realm of the miraculous, we can too which I KNOW most people don't believe but that's not my problem, that's what my God through his Son paid for in full. Because of His Sacrifice and resurrection we can Hebrews 4:16, Romans 12:2, Ephesians 5:1+2,

Ephesians 1:19, John 10:10, 2 Timothy 1:7, 1 John 3:22, there are over 400 of these called promises to us who believe.

I've learned by walking out and doing that is believing, I never received nothing until I read listened and Acted which by the way is why its called the book of Acts, they believed and moved.

Hi Sis The church of Corinth was into some intense stuff because they actually had a temple where they worshipped sex



and didn't want to change there pagan practices and thought they could have there cake and eat it too, that's to me why the word is like it was written yesterday, and by the way Christ is building His church Paul was just instructed by Jesus Christ on operation of what was Given. The Mystery of the One Spiritual body Jews and Gentiles.

Amen Sister GiGi.

Yes, deception and error was present and growing in the church in just a short time period. Thus they many warnings by the writers of the letters to the churches. And it has continued to be a problem in the church down through the ages. But Jesus promised that He will build His church and the gate of hell will not prevail against it. The Lord has preserved His church through the centuries and equipped it with those who refute false teachings (doctrines). These same heresies keep popping up in the church in all time periods. It is wise to know how to identify these heresies when we see them promoted.

Most likely, Rick. the Corinthian congregations were known for such sensual practices, claiming it was from the Spirit, but in reality, as Paul stated, it was from the realm of carnality.

P.S. The reason it was not practiced is due to the amount of unbelief and walking by the senses which Paul was always fighting..

Hi Gigi The answer to one of your questions is in 2 Timothy which is a leadership epistle, chapt. 1:13-15 Paul states all asia has turned away from sound doctrine. This guy was given the knowledge of the operation of the body of Christ in the age of grace Ephesians 3:1-7. That is an unbelievable because he witnessed in acts to all asia in 2 years and 3 months, and except for a handle full of believers they all were practicing doctrines of men. This was written less than 70 years after the birthday of the church. So how bad since then has the corruption of other doctrine have gotten. Its really something to think about. Yes I read the the Church Epistles a lot written to the Church of God not saying i don't learn a ton in the Gospels or the rest, and too boot it all fits like a well fitting wet suit!

Dear Hartford,

I just don't know why any Christian would not want to receive baptism in water, in addition to all the other scripture, here is Jesus telling us that (point blank) we really need to submit to this - if we want to enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

God Bless.

No one can show scripturally in the church epistles written by Paul where getting born again water is a requirement, on the birthday of the church they were baptized about three thousands souls and received holy spirit and it never mentions water there were no swimming pools in the temple. Also acts 1:5 John truly baptized with water but ye shall[ putting in contrast this was before this will be after ] be baptized with holy spirit not many days hence. In Acts Paul was passing through the upper coast he asked certain disciples if they received the holy ghost and they said we were baptised under johns baptism, they never heard of baptism by Jesus Christ then Paul baptised them in the name of Jesus Christ and they received holy spirit into manifestation. They were baptised under the law but never were concerning jesus Christ and grace. Just sharing

Hi Hafford Please show me in the Book of Romans Chapter 10 where to be born again water is mentioned, now the reason why many are born again and not water baptised is because they read this first and got delivered. I also know people who were water baptised taught that this was all you need and didn't get delivered , and I know people who did both and got delivered. All I know is when I confessed Romans 10:9+19 and believed I was born again. I'm aware of alk other scripture references.

If you read Acts Ch 8 carefully you will see that Philip makes sure , before baptism , that Ethiopian understands who Jesus is .

I have read in places where people claim that water baptism isn't for this dispensation (when? after Pentecost? after the death of all the apostles?) and that it was for the Jews not the Gentiles.

Also, they have said that the baptism for Christians is the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, not water baptism.

In Acts 10:44-48, Peter is preaching to the household of Cornelius (a Gentile), the Holy Spirit descends on the listeners and they begin to speak in tongues, just as at Pentecost. (Here the Holy Spirit bestowed the spiritual gift without the laying on of hands.) Peter remarks "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Here Peter insists on these new believers to be baptized with water after they had received the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

This Scripture shows us that water baptism was normal practice by the apostles for new believers, either before or after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the new believers.

Water baptism was the normal accepted practice in the early church of the 1st and 2nd century. I have not read if the descent and outpouring of the Holy Spirt with speaking in tongues, as in this passage and others, where the apostles laid hands upon people and prayed prior to the Holy Spirit's outpouring, was common accepted practice into the 2nd century and beyond. I'll need to research this more. I would welcome any historical information on this from anyone.

Hi Sasha,

I think that many do not desire water baptism because many churches today (and pastors) do not preach , teach or practice it much. They downplay it as an option to having received "Jesus into their hearts". But it is a command of Jesus' for people to repent, believe and be baptized (in water). I would love to that every church has a body of water on the property for people to be immediately baptized as soon as they come to belief in Jesus. I think this was the usual practice in the New Testament church, with a few exception mentioned in Acts. I do think that God does do something vital in baptism that we just cannot really explain with 100% accuracy. It is a matter of faith that baptism is not just a physical cleansing or a rite. Jesus never intended it as such. In Baptism, whatever spiritual thing that is done, it is done by God alone.

In churches today, many are required to go through some classes before being baptized. I do not see evidence of this in the Scripture. The teaching and training in the faith should follow baptism, in my opinion.

Precious friend, some of us are not "trying to Deliberately Disobey" any of God's Commands That "Are FOR us," Today, Under GRACE. We are Deliberately trying to plant the seed of God's Command 2 Timothy 2:15 That Dispels the 'Confusion' over water baptism.

Here is our "study" showing water is not "God's ONE Baptism" FOR us, Today, Under Grace, IF you wish to review it

ONE Baptism:

Link