Discuss Revelation 11 Page 18

To 7 trumpets - Thank-you for your concern; I'm sure my answer to Martha had no effect on her ....................

(The fish and the loaves just my own thought. Neither here nor there, thought someone might appreciate it.) But yes, all I am saying is, regardless, the two candlesticks are present with the 2 witnesses. And no one need fear, just like in Egypt, none of God's children were hurt by the plagues. It will be the same during Trib. "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." Luke 21:18.

Rev. - the 7 churches - I don't understand just the7; when there are churches everywhere in that area, and all over the world. Maybe these 7 are just 'representative' ..... ? I do know the 7 'angels' are the pastors of these churches. There may be something to it, but the fish and loaves sounds like a stretch. I do know '7' is a favorite no. of God.

Irene, your answer to Martha is not right! First; if you knew the Scriptures, you would know that the Saints will still be in the earth up to the coming of the Lord; and that it is for His purposes in judging the world, and in sanctifying His own people! Second; the "falling away" is NOT the "catching away!" A falling away means APOSTASY, and the catching away is His taking us out and changing us.

Verse 4. The candlesticks are churches ( Rev 1:20). Christ was only happy with 2 of the 7 and little doubt it's Smyrna and Philadelphia. This shows us the approved churches are here with the 2 witnesses. The other 5 Christ warns will be deceived and spewn from His mouth if they don't care to learn. 2 fish (meat) and 5 loaves (bread with leaven), maybe? (Just supposition on that last bit.) :)

Dear Martha - I wish I had the answers to your questions on Dan. and Rev. I'm sure there is a book on it that makes it clear, but I haven't seen one. There are people on here that disparage 'other' books besides the Bible, but - like Matthew Henry - they can be very helpful. Pray and ask God to lead you to such a book, He will; He wants us to understand His word. All my prayers to you ...........

To Martha - There are tribulation saints; as yet nobody knows how or why - except the Lord. They do not prove that the whole church goes through the tribulation. 2 Thess.3 - " ..... except there come a falling away first ..... "; the 'falling away' is the rapture, V. 6 "And now ye know what withholdeth, v." ..... only he who now letteth will let. cont.

All the words of the Prophets about the gathering together of the Lord's Elect; indicate without exception, that it will be "at the last trumpet sounding on the Day of the LORD; at the second coming of Christ in power and great glory. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible otherwise: as the Lord said; "but he that endures to the end, the same shall be saved."

According to the Bible
The saints Of God will be raptured but it's only when Jesus returns
That's when rapture happens
But before that is the great tribulation God does ordain his people to endure the tribulation and be faithful till he returns no matter what happened

That how I understand it and I believe the Bible backs this interpretation

If the saints of God are raptured out then how does He fulfill these scriptures?
Daniel 7:25“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High; Revelation 13:7“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints,

Okay Sakana; I concede to you; you can go thru the trib. if you want - God bless you .................

The teaching of the vision is that "We must again testify" and "be called to witness before kings and governors for Jesus' name sake." The tribulation of the completion of the age, is for sifting and proving the souls of all who dwell upon the earth, beginning with the House of God. If the Lord commands for us to live and remain till He comes, our duty and debt to Him, is to Him Jesus all the way.

Irene123; you're not understanding the truth about the completion of the age: It is not because God is "unloving," that we will be here till the coming of the Lord; but because He has appointed us to be His witnesses; to endure to the end faithful, to fill up the sufferings of Christ "in His body." Every account in the Scriptures tells us, that these things work toward the judgment of the world.

The rapture isn't about individuals being taken to heaven - here 'n there; it's the WHOLE church of the Lord Jesus, worldwide, taken to be with Him forever - before the trib. A LOVING God would NOT allow such horror as 7trs. of trib. to befall His people whom He - LOVES. He's certainly not less than an earthly father. How can you say God is love and then say He will let us go thru that?!!

Rom. 10:14; Heb. 10:25

Part 2 - and I know about Elijah and Enoch, but I mean in the context of having to face a trial. The Holy Spirit will speak through the Elect. They will stand against the first/false Christ. In Christ's words, AFTER the TRIBULATION will He have His elect gathered ( Mark 13:24-27). Again, candlesticks of vs4 are churches. So church IS around. Working in the field. Not taken by flood of lies.

Since when has God raptured or "snatched away" any of his children? Noah went through flood. Moses crossed Red Sea. David fought Goliath. Daniel went IN lion's den. The 3 went THROUGH the fiery furnace. Glory to His name not by running. Rather we go through things and Father protects us. Don't want to run away. Want to STAND/FIGHT, why else bother with armor? Candlesticks are present in Trib, v4.

And the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Sounds like:up,flyaway, rapture. Even children understand clouds are up in the air. 1Thessalonians4:16-18 (printed before 1880)

Let no man deceive you, there is a rapture.

O LORD IEHOUAH, be praised most High God as Your Son Jesus Christ our Saviour is now here in the flesh! Be praised LORD IEHOUAH as our Saviour Jesus Christ has appeared before our very eyes! Amen, and amen!

No sir, there is no rapture. It's made up since 1880. All will hear His voice at last trump. No one has ascended yet but He who descended. The dead "sleep" until they hear His voice at 2nd advent. Revelation covers the entire earth age from Babylon til judgement day just like Daniel does. All the lies about it being all future come from rome to take eyes off of her intentions. Unite all under her!

Bill
Is Revelation 11:12 referring to the rapture and after Christians are taken to Heaven will there be people left behind and with still much of the book to be fulfilled.

We don't go to heaven yet. Yeshua comes to take people to a safe place and when everything has passed he will reign here on earth for 1000 years and then we get tested again by satan.

Is Revelation 11:12 referring to the rapture and after Christians are taken to Heaven will there be people left behind and with still much of the book to be fulfilled.

It's exactly as I said it is. Old and New Testaments. You can use a simple Strong's concordance to see for yourself. They mean "instruction" basically. The power that it rain not is the TRUTH being hid for 1260 literal years under the Roman Church, the DARK ages. Same as 42 mos, time,times and half a time. The "latter rain" will come to the remnant to tell this message of the MARK correctly ROME!

My understanding is that Zerubbabel in Zechariah 4 and in Haggai 2 is symbolic of 1 of the 2 witnesses. It's not as if he will be reincarnated, it is symbolic. It is definitely veiled but the Bible certainly seems to support this.

Rev11:18..... "and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great" ....

WOW ! think the Father and Son for reminding us of all Rewards to come....

It's the 1260 yrs of the dark ages when truth and even the Bible itself was outlawed and a death sentence was administered to any LAY person who had one. It's the old n new testaments and even a Strong's concordance calls it "instruction". The rain held back is the same as Elijah's and the latter rain we wait for, which is here to his commandment keeping followers, Rev. 12:17

Ch. 11 going over the events that will take place right before the return of the true King. The two witnesses will have power much as in Exodus.

Rev. gives all the major world kingdoms and timelines. Used with the prophets and 4 Gospels, we can know it's the hour of judgement we are in. We'll never know the hour but the season. When we are commanded to "watch ye therefore and pray always" we are supposed to watch ourselves , as most of the warnings tell us of apostasies within our own churches. What's practiced vs. what Jesus practiced.

Revelation in it's entirety (1-22).... WOW!.... I understand some of it and most of it I do not understand, never-the-less the one thing I understand is: through the Blood Of The Lamb (Jesus Christ my personal Savior) I live each day watching and waiting for the return of the King Of Kings / the Son Of God.... Through His Blood I/we shall be with Him and the Father. WOW!