Revelation
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I am sorry I should have proofread that better. It should have been Revelation 2:27 Revelation 12:5 and Revelation 19:15, these are verses that show the man child the woman birthed is Jesus That He will reign and rule with a rod of iron.
God bless,
RLW
In Daniel 12:1,2, we read about the resurrection of the body in that final day, but there is no mention of the fate of the spirit of the deceased. Then in the account that Jesus gave of the wealthy man & poor Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31), we note that Jesus spoke of three men: one in torment in hell's flames, one in relative peace & comfort in paradise, & with Abraham at his side. If any of these men just remained in the grave, Jesus would not have spoken of life beyond the grave soon after their deaths & such a life where either torment or peace can be experienced.
Even the Apostle Paul expressed his desire to leave this Earth ( Philippians 1:21-24) & to be with Christ, though he was required to continue to be used of God in the Gospel for a little longer. Paul didn't expect to lie in the grave, but his hope was that death would actually be welcome, for it meant that he would be with his Lord & Savior. And in passages such as Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:5-10; Revelation 19:4; etc. we read about the Elders around God's Throne in Heaven. So I believe that at death our spirits return to God to join the host of Heaven worshiping the Lord of Glory. And when Jesus returns in the clouds to receive His beloved, those who have died in Christ will have their bodies re-formed to join their spirits, & those believers alive at that time will arise physically to be with the Lord forever. All this points to Jesus snatching away His people off the Earth before the awful Judgements of God come upon the unbelieving world. And then we all reign with Christ on the Earth in the Millennium period.
Revelation 4:1
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a Trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, ...
Revelation 11:15 to 18KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders(will be they the authors of the OT???), which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty -JESUS- , which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the NATIONS were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged( Daniel 7:26-27), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
Part 2.
This section I will go back to Daniel 2, Daniel 7 and Daniel 9.
In these chapters notice the consistency in the players involved. "The beast, little horn, Prince of the people that shall come being one of them. We will trace this character back to revelation.
Daniel 2:32-45 Daniel interprets King Nebuchadnezzars dream, this is the history of the reign of the Gentiles nations from man's viewpoint with the metal images mixed with clay. ( BABYLON, MADO-PERSIA, GREECE, ROME.)
In Daniel 7 we see the same material presented differently.
You see the same material as a series of beast. This is a vision from Gods viewpoint.
Revelation 13:1-4 connects the beast in Daniel 7 to the Antichrist.
In Daniel 2;35-44 we see Christ destroy 4th and final kingdom and its ruler and set up his own everlasting kingdom.
( Daniel 2:44.) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
( Also see Daniel 7:14.)
This haven't happened yet, and it didn't happen at the cross.
There's still not a kingdom or a King in Israel as described throughout the OT. And there is NO peace!
When studying these chapters, we see the little horn/beast rises out of these 10 horns/kingdoms.
Daniel 7:8-13 describes the end of this last and present empire.
Revelation 19:19 amplifies. that. Hasn't happened yet.
CONCERNING THE SACRIFICES.
There will be sacrifices in the kingdom. Isaiah 56:6-8. Zechariah 14:16. Jeremiah 33:15-18. Ezekiel 43:18. Ezekiel 46:24. Ezekiel 40:1-49.
Sacrifices never took away sins.
The sacrifices in the OT pointed forward to one who would come and take away sins and the sacrifices in the Kingdom will point backwards to the one who came and took away sins.
The Antichrist will present himself as Christ and the start of the expected Kingdom.
God bless.
My understanding is the rapture is not a separate event before the second coming of Jesus and my understanding of the white throne judgment is not for just the lost. If I can ask, not to debate but for understanding. If we say at Jesus's second coming, all are resurrected and the living is transformed/raptured and the final judgment happens then, how do we understand the two resurrections in Revelation 19:11-22 and Revelation 20 and the binding of Satan for 1000 years?
Thank You and God bless.
RLW
I may be different, but in my understanding of the Bible, I approach scripture simply and do not try to complicate things with preconceived ideas and let the Bible and the Holy Spirit do the interpretation. To me, a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning.
A symbol represents something real, a real person, a real thing, or a historical event. When I read, I understand words in a literal sense first, then in a figurative or spiritual sense if the literal doesn't make sense.
Are the Christians now the Israel of God? Have the promises to Israel and the church merged into one common heritage? If so that brings up.
Will the promise of the land given to Abraham's seed, Isaac then Jacob be fulfilled? Isaiah 11:11-12 Ezekiel 37:21-25 Jeremiah 24:5-6 Ezekiel 34:11-12 Ezekiel 36:24-26 Hosea 3:4-5 Micah 4:6-7 Zechariah 13:8-9
Will Jesus the Messiah return and reign on the earth, with a rod of iron? Isaiah 2:1-4 Isaiah 11:1-4 Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:14 Zechariah 14:1-4 Jeremiah 3:17 Revelation 2:26-27 Revelation 11:15 Revelation 12:5 Revelation 19:11-21.
Will there be a literal millennium during which Satan will not deceive the nations and Christ will reign on earth? Revelation 20:1-6 2 Timothy 2:11-12 Isaiah 2:2-4 Isaiah 11:5-16 Isaiah 65:19-25 Isaiah 51:4-5 Zechariah 14:16-21 Micah 4:1-4 Psalms 46:7-11 Matthew 19:28.
To me there are too many scriptures that are showing God has not replaced Israel with the Church. We see in Romans 11:24-27 a day when God will again turn to Israel, the day Jesus returns. Forgive me if some of the scriptures do not fit.
God bless,
RLW
God has given you a new name.
The resurrection made all things NEW, including your name.
Isaiah 62:2 ...... and thou shall be called by a new name ....
Revelation 2:17 ...and I will give him a white stone, and in that stone a NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth but he that RECEIVETH it.
Revelation 3:12 ...and i will write upon him my new name ...
If you don't YET know your new name, the word of God tells you what that name is.
You were married to Christ by his and your resurrection TOGETHER, the bride takes the name of her husband,
You were baptised in the NAME of Jesus.
There was only ONE BODY raised at the resurrection, and that ONE BODY was given LIFE by ONE SPIRIT.
1 Corinthians 12:27 NOW you are the body of Christ .....
Luke 8:11 .... the SEED is the WORD OF GOD .....
Isaiah 59:21 And this is my covenant with them (YOU), saith the Lord, the words that I (the Father) have put in your (Christ's) mouth, shall not depart out of your (Christ is the WORD, the SEED) mouth, nor out of thy SEED (your born again by the WORD of GOD----you become SEED) nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED (your are going to bear fruit---SEED), saith the Lord, from henceforth (the resurrection) and forever.
You are the BODY OF CHRIST.
Revelation 19:16 And he had on his vesture and on his thigh (body) written, THE LORD OF LORDS AND THE KING OF KINGS
Revelation 19:13 ...and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD ....
Revelation 1:1 The REVELATION (the revealing) of Jesus Christ .....
Revelation 1:11 .... I AM .... the first (man) ....I AM .... the last (man)
Exodus 3:13 .... I AM that I AM .... I AM hath sent ME to YOU ....
John 17:22 ...and the GLORY that thou has given me, I have GIVEN THEM ....that they may be ONE as we are ONE ...
You were given a NEW NAME, a gift of GOD, by the death and resurrecting of CHRIST.
God bless you.
Matthew 13:24-30 (with the parable's interpretation given in vv 36-43). The Sower is the Lord Who planted His Seed (which brought forth His children) in His field (the Church, His Body). But the enemy (Satan) also has his way & planted his seed (of unregenerate & evil hearts) amongst the good seed. If this was the world spoken of & not the Church, then identification between the good & evil would be easy. Of course, as they grew together, they appeared the same, until the tares showed their true color. Using Jesus' instruction in Matthew 18:15-17, those tares that could be easily seen amongst them can be exposed for who they are, but often they can't be seen until Christ's examination, judgement, & removal. The believers will be gathered by the reapers at the harvest unto Him & the imposters burned with fire. Given that this parable was spoken amongst the Jews, there could be application to those who were righteous under the Law ("children of the kingdom") & the unrighteous amongst them.
Revelation 14:14-20, the Reaper is the Lord (v16) and the angel who had the sickle did the gathering. What was reaped & what was gathered? "..the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are ripe". These are not the tares in Matthew, but are shown as being slashed off the vine, & that at their crushing, their juice (as blood) came out in volumes as a result of Christ's Judgement; maybe at that great final battle when the enemies of Christ are slaughtered ( Revelation 19:17-21).
The parable of the wheat & the tares is for "the end of this world" ( Matthew 13:40), not post-trib, nor pre-trib. So I don't read this parable as you do & in comparing it with Revelation 14.
Remember wisdom is the principal thing therefore in all your getting get understanding amen. ( Proverbs 4:7)
To better understand this verse please recount the event of Stephen who was martyred and before he died, He saw Jesus Christ the son of God standing on the right hand of power.
So Stephen Saw Jesus before he died.
But to answer your Question The book of Revelation is written by John one of the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ, John received the Revelation of Jesus all the word of Living God all the things he saw.
( Revelation 1:1-2)
1,The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So here John is an old man and receives the vision of God and to be more exact he sees the vision of Jesus Christ the son of the living God appearing in Glory with his angles and this event to came and it is written in the book of revelation.
( Revelation 19:11-16)
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.
-So john did not test death
Part 2.
If the coming of the Lord and the gathering together of believers unto Him, and the Day of the Lord are all the same event as you stated,
Who's going to populate the Millenium if all the wicked is destroyed and the righteous raptured at this junction?
Who's these 2 groups described in Revelation 20:8-9?
"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And (THEY) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the (SAINTS) about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured (THEM).
Who are these saints?
Who are they that went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints?
If we would let the scripture tell us, verse 8 tells us who the saints are. (whom is as the sand of the sea.) This is an Old Testament idiom for Israel.
We know they're not the church they reign with Christ during this period and in Revelation 19:1-9 the Church has made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
To hold that view one would have to suggest that the Church was raptured then returned, Satan released, the wicked resurrected to cause more harm for the bride to go thru it all over again.
You have to include the Millennium in your eschatology theology.
That's why some post trib people say were already in the millennium to get rid of this major issue.
Please allow me to correct a mistake I made.
I mentioned to you to take
Luke 17:34-37 and Parallel it with Revelation 19:11-18 Focusing on vs 17. On your way to verse 17 notice verrse 14.
Revelation 19:14.
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
This is also prophesied in Jude 1:14.
These clothed in fine linen is the same group in
Revelation 19:7-8.
"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
(8) And to her was granted that SHE SHOULD BE ARRAYED IN FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: FOR THE FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS.
I left out one of the connecting verses. ( Vs 8.)
These are a few of the connecting verses why we believe the Church comes with Christ on his second coming.
Luke 17:37.
Revelation 19:17.
Jude 1:14.
Revelation 19:7-8.
God bless.
I will give you my view and I will extend to vs 37.
vs 36-37 is where the answer is.
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, THITHER WILL THE EAGLES BE GATHERED TOGETHER.
Now parallel it with.
Revelation 19:11-18. "focusing on vs 17."
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
( vs14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
(Parallels with; Jude 1:14.)
Those clothed in fine linen is the same group in Revelation 19:7.
THIS GROUP IS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST. THE CHURCH!!
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS THAT FLY IN THE MIDST OF HEAVEN, COME AND GATHER YOURSELVES TOGETHER unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
THIS GROUP IS TAKEN FOR JUDGMENT.
This is after the tribulation and the Church comes with him, They were raptured atleast 7 years prior.
Those left goes on into the Millennium. Those taken, Judgment as well in Matthew 24.
God bless.
Jimbob,
As for the reason for me using the word vulture instead of eagle, you are correct in saying that the KJV says eagle. Many other English translations use the word vulture which would be a better translation and make more sense. We are told that they will come and eat the flesh of the dead carcasses. Eagles kill their prey. They do not feed on dead carcasses. Vultures feed on dead flesh. Revelation 19:21 says fowls. The Textus Receptus used the word ORNEA which translates to birds. So, this does not tell us whether it is an eagle or a vulture. However, vulture would seem correct.
Now when I look at Luke 17:37 in the Greek Interlinear Bible, the word used which you properly gave is G105 (AETOI). However, the Greek Interlinear says vulture, not eagle. And the word body in the same verse (SOMA) could mean either a living body, or a dead body or corpse. So, in Luke 17:37, it would make more sense that it is talking about dead carcasses that the vulture will come and feast on.
I do agree that the church is the body of Christ, but we are not the body that these birds will be feasting on. That's why I say that this "body" that is taken is one who is taken into judgment, into that great battle that will take place when Christ comes back. And those ones who are taken will all be killed, and the vultures will come and feed on their carcasses.
And yes, I agree that the church will be at the marriage supper in heaven while the wrath of God is being poured out on the earth. And I also would agree that once the tribulation period has ended, we (the church) come back with Christ at His second coming. I guess I should try and get over my fear of riding horses!
Blessings to you!!!
All throughout time, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In Revelation 13:16-18, we read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why's that? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is shocking how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. These are notes from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the peoples of the world-a
Throughout history, we can see how we have been strategically conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that the Bible foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, we will read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why so? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here are notes from someone named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the peoples of
All throughout time, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that the Bible foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In Revelation 13:16-18, it states,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why so? Revelation 13:17 tells us that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is shocking how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. These are notes from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the peoples of the w
All throughout time, we can see how we have been strategically conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, we will read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why so? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it really starts to come together. It is incredible how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here is information from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identi
All throughout time, we can see how we have been strategically conditioned to come to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, it states,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why so? Revelation 13:17 says that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is shocking how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here are notes from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the peopl
Throughout history, we can see how we have been carefully conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, we read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why's that? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is shocking how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. These are notes from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the pe
Throughout time, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that the Bible foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, we will read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Referring to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why's that? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it comes together. It is incredible how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here is information from someone named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and controlling the pe
I agree, that essentially this is a battle in the spiritual realm, even as the enemy of our souls comes against Christ & all who've chosen not to obey Satan, but here we see a physical representation, if you will, of Satan; one raised for this final onslaught, "whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of his coming", the one called "the beast & his false prophet" ( Revelation 19:20) finally cast into the Lake of Fire. And then "the dragon, that old serpent (of olden times), which is the Devil and Satan, will be bound a thousand years" ( Revelation 20:2). I believe these verses should convince us that three separate persons filled with evil are being revealed here but all hold to that foul & wicked spirit.
You're quite correct: there's no trumpet sound mentioned in Revelation 19:11-21. In Matthew 24:31, it is the 'episunago' (gathering, or assembling, together in one place) of the Elect. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, it is the 'harpazo' (the snatching away from one place to another place), of the Church. Different Greek words which require a different understanding & application, implying both a different type of 'removal' of believers. One, a gathering, the other, a snatching away. And this snatching away is a pre-emptive act before the appointed Great Tribulation of God: beginning in a modest limited way (at the beginning of the last seven years), but ending in the final outpouring of God's Wrath. And this is Revelation 19:11-21 (with no trumpet call), the descent of those prepared from Heaven for that final battle & eternal securing & suffering of the beast & his prophet. Thank you again Jimbob for the time, effort & patience you've given to this thread. Blessings.
Throughout history, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the last book of the Bible, Revelation 13:16-18, we read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why? Revelation 13:17 tells us that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it really starts to come together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here are notes from someone named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying and contro
Throughout time, we can see how we have been slowly conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that the Bible foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the book of Revelation 13:16-18, it states,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Referring to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why so? Revelation 13:17 tells us that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it really starts to come together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. Here is information from someone named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for identifying an
Throughout time, we can see how we have been strategically conditioned coming to this point where we are on the verge of a cashless society. Did you know that Jesus foretold of this event almost 2,000 years ago?
In the last book of the Bible, Revelation 13:16-18, we read,
"He (the false prophet who deceives many by his miracles-- Revelation 19:20) causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
Speaking to the last generation, this could only be speaking of a cashless society. Why's that? Revelation 13:17 states that we cannot buy or sell unless we receive the mark of the beast. If physical money was still in use, we could buy or sell with one another without receiving the mark. This would contradict scripture that states we need the mark to buy or sell!
These verses could not be referring to something purely spiritual as scripture references two physical locations (our right hand or forehead) stating the mark will be on one "OR" the other. If this mark was purely spiritual, it would indicate both places, or one--not one OR the other!
This is where it really starts to come together. It is amazing how accurate the Bible is concerning the implantable RFID microchip. This is information from a man named Carl Sanders who worked with a team of engineers to help develop this RFID chip:
"Carl Sanders sat in seventeen New World Order meetings with heads-of-state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the C.I.A. to discuss plans on how to bring about this one-world system. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a microchip for iden
c. Matthew 24:29:31 does indeed show Jesus coming in the clouds as does 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, but the difference is that in the Matthew verses, His descent is ultimately to come onto the Earth (His 2nd Coming) to gather His Elect to reign on Earth, but the 1 Thessalonian verses show the Church rising into the clouds to be with Christ, & not on the Earth. I guess that is why it is referred to as a 'harpazo', a snatching away of His Church, who is to be shielded from God's Wrath (Tribulation) falling on them. In His 2nd Coming, there is no 'harpazo', just a gathering together of the Elect. Revelation 19:11-21 speaks of what appears to be, Armageddon. This is Christ's 2nd Coming, for war, for collection of the Elect & the Marriage Supper on Earth. So yes, the Matthew 24 & Revelation 19 passages appear to be the same event, though the former speaks of His Coming & the latter giving more detail to His Person & that great final War.
Thanks again Jimbob, this discussion has been very fruitful & to also learn that a 'post-tribulation rapture' can actually apply to a 'post-trib/pre-Wrath' understanding (which is yours). I've always, maybe mistakenly, understood that the post-trib position required believers to not only experience the anti-Christ's reign of terror on them but also the full extent of God's tribulations/Wrath before they are gathered together for the Millennium rule of Christ. Hence my thought that yours was more a mid-trib one, or at least somewhere within the last three & half years of Daniel's last week of seven years. Blessings.
d. the revelation of the anti-Christ is restrained ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12). Paul's reason for writing this was because the Church was greatly troubled that the Day of the Lord (Christ) had begun. Paul said that that day wouldn't commence until Jesus came for them & raptured them ("our gathering together unto him": v1). The 'restrainer' is the Holy Spirit in God's people, then when He is removed, God's people are removed, for the Holy Spirit was sent to indwell us & work in & through us & for the Gospel's propagation ( John 16:7,8,13).
e. a comparison between an imminent Rapture & Rapture at the Second Coming:
1. Translation of all believers ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18) --- No translation at all ( Revelation 19:6-21).
2. Raptured saints return to Heaven ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17; John 14:1-3) --- Raptured saints return to Earth ( 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Revelation 19:14).
3. Any moment, in readiness, without signs ( 1 Corinthians 1:7; Philippians 4:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:6; Titus 2:13; James 5:7-9; Revelation 3:11, 22:7,12,20) --- many signs given of the Great Tribulation which leads into Jesus' coming (so a readiness cannot be expected, as the seven year's count down begins with the anti-Christ).
A Pre-Tribulation Rapture position keeps the Church ready & watching for her Lord's Coming. Any other position can give her the tendency to apathy & carelessness. The Church is told to be watchful, in spite of ridicule, "where is the promise of his coming" ( 2 Peter 3:4). But Christ's coming is held back until the full number are saved (v9) - and then Jesus will come to take His Church Home.
Appreciate your comments Jimbob & I'll take it from the top.
Revelation 19:7-9. The way I understand the relationship of Jesus Christ to His Church, is that we have already been joined to Him; Ephesians 5:31,32, "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Paul believed that the Church was already joined to Christ - they were one - we were already married. So there's no second marriage planned - only His bride gathered together & being made ready for that great celebration, otherwise called, the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb". Where "the marriage of the Lamb is come" as seen in verse 7, it is in celebration, with the Supper, of the union that had already taken place when the Holy Spirit was given to every believer, joining him/her to Christ. And as His bride was arrayed in fine linen for the celebration, clearly depicts the pure, holy & acceptable state of Christ's spouse, the Church.
Yes, His Army, which includes His bride & probably other angels, do join Him in His descent to Earth. So the question (which you have answered), 'if the bride is with Christ, then where has the Marriage Supper taken place, in Heaven or on Earth?' Your understanding, is in Heaven, "The wedding has taken place and the Bride is now called the "wife". My sense is that the Supper is still to take place; why? The Bride was made ready & arrayed in 'marriage' outfits, Jesus & the Bride (& others) mount their stallions, & join Him in war; and of course, victory is theirs. What comes after this? Revelation 20:1-5 tell us that after Satan is bound in the pit, John saw thrones & those who died under the anti-Christ's pogrom. These saints arose from their graves & presumably Jesus & His army of saints joined them. This is the First Resurrection of Believers. (this paragraph continue onto Page 2.)
Hi Jimbob & thank you for sharing this. I'll leave the matter of who the 'saints' are; I brought this up earlier. But to Revelation 19:7-9: in the context of the whole chapter, I read those verses differently to you. There was great praise going on in Heaven, with the words, "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready (v7)". Christ, the Lamb, was being made ready for His Wife (the Church) & the Voice from God's Throne told John to write, "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." Was this supper to take place forthwith, since the Bride was there & ready & waiting?
If I had to analyse it, I would say, No. The Bride was not altogether there - there were yet more to join them so that the marriage supper could take place. The announcement at verse 9, was the imminency of this marriage supper: the bride was already there (raptured saints?), but not the full number (tribulation saints?). Then in Revelation 19:11-21, we see the Lamb, not enjoying this time with His Bride, the Church, but going out to war against the beast, false prophet & those having the beast's mark on them - all being killed & consigned to the Lake of Fire. Then John was given the vision, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years ( Revelation 20:4). Here is the 'first resurrection' of those living in the tribulation days, who rejected the beast & his mark, & were beheaded for their love for Jesus & together with the saints from Heaven, share in that great Supper time.
Revelation 13:11: of another beast. I understand this one to be representative of the False Prophet who is anti-Christ's lieutenant, if you will, speaking with the same authority & force as Satan himself. A deadly duo indeed. And we see this lieutenant again in Revelation 16:13 (all three are separate: Satan, anti-Christ, & the false prophet), Revelation 19:20 & Revelation 20:10. Yes, the dragon is Satan, but we can identify the beast & the false prophet as separate entities, coming from Satan.
And I agree with a lot of what you shared in your page 2, with the exception of course to the beast which speaks like a dragon; I don't believe this is Satan but the false prophet. And yes, it is in the first 42 months that the anti-Christ appears & causes this worldwide mayhem & God's Wrath being poured out during the second 42 months.
But our problem remains: when is the Rapture? Is it after the first 42 months, or before it? Again, my critical verses are 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9. How we understand the meaning of the 'restrainer', will most likely place us in the pre or post-trib position. Paul's readers were confused & agitated that the Day of the Lord had begun (as taught by the false teachers). Paul assured them that the 'restrainer' hadn't been removed yet, allowing the man of sin to be revealed & assume his dictatorship. But the question, 'who is he who restrains? Thank you again Jimbob for this lively & inspiring discussion; I appreciate the time you've given to it.