Discuss Revelation 1 Page 4

Amen Joe.

That's the view I hold also.

Did you notice in Revelation 5:3. the locations was saught out to find a "MAN" (Kinsman Redeeer) to loose the seals?

"And no man in ( HEAVEN,) nor in EARTH, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

"Another verse some of us use to identify the rapture has already taken place at this point."

HERE'S ANOTHER THING TO NOTE;

Look at how they are identified In Revelation 5:9-10. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION;

And hast made us unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS: and we shall reign on the earth.

We know this don't represent the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 Apostles. They're not "OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION;"

But look who this group Identify with. Revelation 1:4-6. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,

AND HATH MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

All this takes place BEFORE the Antichrist hits the scene and before the 7 seals are broken.

God bless.

Where does Ezekiel Chapters 38 & 39 fit into end time prophecy?

Can your God our father

Here are some scriptures in that regard:

Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5, 1Samuel 15:35, Job 10:21,22, Job 34:22, Job 38:17, Revelation 2:7, Luke 23:33-43, Luke 16:19-31, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 48:14, Psalms 49:14, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Isaiah 38:18, Romans 7, 2Corinthians 7:10,

Psalms 56:13, Psalms 89:48, Proverbs 10:2, Proverbs 14:27, Ecclesiastes 9:4,

Psalms 116:15, Proverbs 14:32, Isaiah 9:2, Isaiah 25:8, Hosea 13:14, Luke 18:33, John 8:51, John 5:24, Acts 2:24-27, Romans 5:10-21, Romans 6:2-23, Romans 8, 2Timothy 1:10, 1John 3:14,

Jeremiah 21:8, Ezekiel 18:31,32, 1Corinthians 15:20-58, Revelation 1:18,

Hebrews 2:9-18, Revelation 20, Revelation 21,

Brother Anthony:

There is not two separate revelations in Revelation, it's one revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .......

Revelation is not addressed to the seven churches, but to the angel of the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Ephesus write ....

Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Smyrna write .....

Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Pergamos write ......

Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Thyatira write ....

Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Sardis write ......

Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Philadelphia write .....

Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Laodiceans write .....

Mark !3:24 But in those days (the wrath of God that was poured out on Christ), after the tribulation (that wrath of God, poured out on Christ) , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon (symbolic of Christ) shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall .....

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth .....

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness (the sun was darkened) over all the earth unto the ninth hour.

And the moon (symbolic of Christ) turned to blood, and covered the sins of creation.

God Bless you in the quest for TRUTH ( John 14:6 ...I AM TRUTH....I AM LIFE)

To add: GOD was able to deliver Noah, Lot, he has a promise & is able to deliver us, HIS children during those days. They weren't taken out of the world, the were there, right in the events, but precisely spared. 2Peter 2, note 2Peter 2:9.

Btw. This website has a search box, top left, under JKV or 1611 that you can search words, phrases even modified search for partial word. If you type Prop in "search bar" on this site. It will come back with "modify search" then, "partial word search" 20 pages to sort through. Then "sort by order" major study, key! You can do this with any study. It should be great to study alongside & with. Proverbs 27:17,

Matthew 24, Mark 13, Revelation 16:13, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10,

Numbers 12:6-8,

Hopefully these are helpful

Matthew 24:34

Hannah, since your dad us a believer and a pastor at that, he is your spiritual head. I recommend that you ask him first off to show you the Scripture that speaks to your question and also to explain things to you how he understands the end times. Then, I recommend y9uo come back here and ask for further clarification if needed. May God bless your sincere inquiries with understanding and wisdom.

Hi Anthony.

Thanks for your breakdown of Luke 18:8. However I was just pulling out one word out of the text and that word is "Speedily". My attempt was to show this is the word used in Revelation 1:1 when you used that verse and presented it as a time line.

Quoting you:

So, we see the timing being set for what is to be written to the seven churches, End quote.

My argument is shortly doesn't present an Era.

The word Speedily in Luke 18:8 is the same word used in Revelation 1:1 also in many other places in scripture.

The way you interpreted the scripture in Luke using word speedily/shortly is the same way you should interpret it in Revelation 1:1.

You stated;

"God is seen to delay UNTIL THE TIME COMES when he will avenge his people AT WHICH TIME HE WILL "THEN" ACT SPEEDILY. end quote.

In Revelation 1:1 it's used the same way

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must Speedily come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

This presents something to happen fast when the time comes.

You asked why do I believe the 7 Churches in Revelation represent the complete Church throughout history?

Anthony I disclosed that in my earlier post and gave my reasoning.

I also said Revelation 1:19 outlines the book and that outline is explained in my post.

I said he who has an ear speaks to all!

You said "no it don't."

I said Revelation 1:3 presents the coming events as prophesy .

You said "no it don't."

This can go on and on.

It surprises me you never heard of this view considering you opened the thread with this-

"Some people believe that in Rev 3:10 Jesus is saying that if we believe in him that he will protect us from the great tribulation and they use this to support the notion that the rapture will happen before the great tribulation."

Also considering this is a widely held view.

I have one more post.

Give me a minute.

God bless.

Where is the bible does it specifically talk about the end of time? Like about the false prophet.. my dad is a pastor and I was wanting to know more about whats to come in the future.

Hello Stephen, thank you for your comment.

It's important to read Luke 18:8 in it's proper context. The context for v8 is given in v7.

God is seen to delay until the time comes when he will avenge his people at which time he will then act speedily. This will happen when Jesus returns, at which time, he will send His angels to gather his elect on the very same day that he will pour out his wrath on the unbelievers.

It will be just like it was when God sent his angels to rescue Lot before pouring out his wrath on Sodom. The angels removed Lot from Sodom on the very same day that God poured out his wrath on Sodom.

Please tell me why you believe the 7 Churches in Revelation represent the complete Church throughout history?

The text makes no such claim and to say that it does is to misrepresent what Christ has said.

So, I'm interested to know where you sourced this erroneous belief.



PS Revelation 1:19, doesn't give the chronological order of the book of Revelation, because in the very first chapter we see that Revelation 1:7 points to the return of Jesus Christ which is an example of how Revelation is not written in strict chronological order.

As Christians, the doctrine we hold must stand up to biblical scrutiny and must be provable from the scriptures otherwise we risk

being deceived by false doctrine.

I look forward to your reply.

Hi Anthony.

I agree there were local Churches, and these letters was written to them. I believe these 7 Churches represents the complete Church throughout history with 7 representing completeness. #7 is significant throughout scripture.

Also, by what is omitted, (Several other Churches such as the Church in Antioch, Rome, certainly the Church in Jerusalem. And many others founded in scripture.)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants' things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

" Things which must shortly come to pass" cannot be designated to just chapters 1,2 and 3. The word "shortly" used here I believe is the same word used in Luke 18:8 "I tell you that he will avenge them SPEEDILY. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (Speedily) is the same word used here in Revelation.

Vs 3. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this "PROPHECY" and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (This is a prophecy.) so it takes you beyond a local application.

I'm not trying to change your view; I'm just presenting mine.

And as I mentioned I believe Revelation 1:19 gives the chronological order of the book of Revelation. (All 22 chapters.)

The messages are a composite, and they had a direct msg to the Churches in Johns Day, and all 7 letters are appliable for us and all churches throughout church history as well the individual. And yes, the text is structured that way.

Ephesus represents the Apostolic Church; Laodicea represents the Apostate Church. I'm running out of space, perhaps I will share more on "The view I hold and why I hold it later.

However, I'm sure you've heard of this viewpoint so I'm not trying to sell it.

God bless.

Hi Anthony.

I just wanted to share my view on the seven Churches in Revelation ch 2 and 3.

1st. They all were local Churches.

The Revelation (Unveiling) of Jesus Christ. These letters also is to and applies to the complete Church Era.

In ch 1 vs19 we have "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

I believe that is what John did.

That is what he wrote in

Revelation 1:12-17.

In Revelation 2 and 3 he wrote about the things which are.

(What's existing) "Church Era, throughout history "

( And the things which shall be hereafter; )

Starts with Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

( And it carries on throughout the rest of the book. )

I also believe the phrase "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." suggest this is also written to us.

( He that hath an ear! )

Also "let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES." ( Plural ) suggest that all seven letters apply to all seven Churches, It's admonitory. All seven apply to all of us. And the letters lay out the history of the Church. ( In order.)

God bless.

Hi Fredrick.

Greek:

Transliteration: pantokratr

Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore

Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.

KJV Usage: Almighty(9x), omnipotent(1x).

Occurs: 10

In verses: 10

Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.

God bless.

Scripture on when we die: John 3:16, John 5:24, Romans 5, Romans 6, 2Corinthians 1:9,10, 2Timothy 1:10, 1Peter 3:18, Revelation 1:17,18

Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 25:31-46, Ezekiel 18:4-32, Luke 20:36-38, Hebrews 9:27-28, James 5:20, 1John 3:14,

John 11:25,26, Romans 8:13, Romans 8, Romans 14:8, 1Corinthians 15:22, 1Corinthians 15,

Revelation 14:12,13, Revelation 2:10,11, Revelation 20:6,13,14, Revelation 21, Revelation 22,

Hebrews 11:5,

Hopefully these are helpful

Hello Josephine. All we have on John's exile is what we read in Revelation 1:9: "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

So, it seems that for his strong Christian witness & preaching that he suffered exile. According to the Church historian, Eusebius, John was pastoring the Church at Ephesus. During the reign of Roman Emperor Domitian (AD 81-96), Christians were heavily persecuted & the Apostle John was banished to Patmos to live out his life there & die. It was noted that undesirables in the Roman Empire were often sent to Patmos to work the mines. John remained here for eighteen months, after which the next emperor, Nerva, released all exiles. Tradition holds that John then returned to the believers at Ephesus, but died soon afterwards at the turn of the century.

it's a blessing to use the online bible

Sparticus,

I hold the historical/prophetic view of the book of Revelation. I see the book of Revelation as being both historical and futuristic. I understand the seven churches in Chapters 2 and 3 were literal churches in John's day, and that the events in Chapters 4 through 22 are yet future.

Whatever view a person takes, it must fit in with what John saw in the past. He just saw the vision of Christ, the things that are, that is, the condition of the churches in John's day, and the things that will be after the church (Chapters 4 through 22).

It must fit into that past, present, and future scheme that the book of Revelation divides up for us.

In Revelation 1:10, John says, " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day."

The phrase "I was in the Spirit," in the King James translation, Spirit is capitalized to indicate the Holy Spirit. But in the Greek text, there is no word "the." There's no definite article. And the spirit is understood to be not the Holy Spirit, but the spirit realm. And we see that throughout the book, he was caught up in spirit.

And then he says on the Lord's day. And in the bible, Sunday is never called the Lord's day, which you also alluded to.

The scriptures tell us that this is an OT term for the day of the Lord, or Lord's day, and it is a reference to the day of judgment.

It is called the Lord's day in Isaiah 2:12, and Zephaniah 1:14-16. Even Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, he used that Jewish phrase from the Old Testament, and says that the day of the Lord is going to come as a thief in the night. But you don't have to worry because you're children of light.

Peter also, in 2 Peter 3:10 used the same phrase as the day of judgment of God.

When John was caught up to see the Lord's day, this period of judgment, he got to see the future happen before it happens, while it's happening. He saw everything from where he's at, all the way to the end, and what's going to happen at the end. It just hasn't happened yet for us

Thankfully God already provided several verses about this:

Link

Steve Gbu.....The trinity is very simple....Its Father Son and Granson that is gonna become as the Stars of heaven in multitudes....If ya can understand Abraham Issac and Jacob.... Remember Abraham offered up his only son Issac.. who does that remind us of, God the Father that offered up his only son Jesus....That ram caught in the thicked by his horns was symbolic of Christ and his Crown of thorns....And out of Issac came Jacob and Esau....Outta of Christ came the Wheat the H.G. and the Tares came out of Satans seed....Remember Jacob was the Granson and outta of Jacob came the 12 tribes...The great nation of Israel....But now under this new covenant, its the H.G...The 3 rd person that is the Israel of God...That heavenly Jacob in Isaiah 48 kjv is a picture of Israel of God...The sun nor any kind of heat can lite on them simply b/c they are spirits...As Jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit...Thats the H.G. the Israel of God....God Almighty told Moses that his name was ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB...Simply b/c the Godhead is a picture of Abraham Issac and Jacob....Just as Abraham was multiplied as the sands of the seas so Almighty God will be multiplied as the stars of heaven....Thats y the Sower of the good seed wants to sow his precious seed in our hearts...That he might be multiplied as the stars of heaven..Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G. as the Promise the multiplication of Jesus...His offspring an Israel of God...Thats y jesus is saying to whom the word came..(His seed ) it made them Gods and the scriptures cannot be broken..

.....And also the Davidic kingdom was Jesse, David and Solomon....Father, Son and Granson...In Isaiah 11:1 we read of a heavenly Kingdom coming in the last days....Isaiah describes it as a Jesse, David and Solomon type kingdom coming in the last days when God wd gather his ppl a 2 nd Time a 2nd coming...As the H.G. cannot be born in us without the seed of Christ thus Christ is truly the father of the H.G..He has to know us.

Yes Steve, 1 John 5:7 says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one", is the best singular verse that succinctly describes the Triune God. Then to humanly fathom such a Being as God Who can send Himself forth to accomplish His Purposes (as His Word & Holy Spirit) & not be deficient or destroy Himself in any way, becomes a difficulty for many - hence the on-going debates on this important subject.

Peoples! it's symbolic for Peoples!

Revelation 17:15 And he saith to me, "The (waters) which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, represent peoples, and multitudes,and nations, and tongues.

Explain the trinity please

His voice as the sound of many waters Rev.1:15

RE. Col. 4:16

Laodicea and Colossae were geographically very close communities with only a very short distance separating the two. Paul refers to the Laodicean Church four times in this epistle (2:1; 4:13, 15, & 16). Due to their very close proximity, both churches surely faced the same theological and doctrinal heresies Paul addressed in this epistle such as the beguiling and "enticing words" (2:4) of "philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after CHRIST" (2:8). For this reason, Paul intended the Laodicean Church to read his epistle to the Colossian Church (4:16): "when this epistle is read among you (the Colossian Church), cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans." The warnings, exhortations, and imperatives also apply to churches throughout the New Testament era until The LORD returns.

Paul seems to have written an epistle to the Laodicean Church, of which he also instructed the Colossian Church to read as well (4:16b): " and that ye (the Colossian Church) likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." Paul's epistle to the Laodicean Church is now undiscovered.

Scriptures record Laodicean Church references for the last time in Revelation 1:11 and in 3:14-22 wherein Glorified LORD JESUS CHRIST addressed and rebuked the Laodicean Church for her lukewarmness. Whether Epaphras ( Col. 1:7; 4:12), Nymphas (4:15), and Archippus (4:17) were still ministers of the LORD when CHRIST addressed the Laodicean Church in The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST is conjecture.

Revelation 1 continued

Starting at verse 9 we go back to John; who apparently was writing this to an unknown brother.

He gives his location (Patmos); and the reason why (for the Word of God and the testimony of Christ). It is widely accepted that he was there because of an exile; and there are suggestions that they tried to kill him by boiling in oil (not in the scriptures); and failed.

In any event; we get to the next verse and John reports that it was the "Lord's day" and he heard the sound of a voice as a trumpet. This certainly could signify the type of occurrence when the church is called up in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

Verses 11 to the end of the chapter once again describe Christ as the Alpha and Omega; and John's mission to write down what he is told and send it to the seven churches; now named. The next verse involves John looking at the source of the voice and at first seeing seven golden candlesticks. Then from verse 13 through 17 we get the description of Christ with a detail of the seven stars in his right hand in verse 16. To say that he was "like the Son of man" in verse 13 perhaps means that it reminded him of what Christ looked at at the Transfiguration or when he was on earth. In any case; even though John had seen Him transformed; the full glory still made him fall as though dead (v. 17). Jesus reassured him not to fear and that He was dead and now alive; and that He had the keys to death and hell. (v. 18). He explains what will be of what are and shall be (i.e. chapter 2 and 3 then the rest of the book.) The last verse explains the stars as angels (or messengers meaning pastors); as well as the candlesticks which ARE the 7 churches. We are reminded of the fear of God and Christ as well as the fact that it is HIS church (all true ones); and His body of believers; and His ownership and authority over all things. May we all have proper reverence for the Lord.

Revelation 1: Commentary

Revelation begins much in the characteristic emphasis that John placed in the Gospels with the Godhead and its roles in rulership. The message was from Jesus Christ that God gave to him (apparently John) through an angel (unnamed). He who bore record (verse 2) shows John mentioning himself in the 3rd person; as to the written testimony of what he had seen and heard. Verse 3 shows a blessing for anyone who hears and KEEPS the things written in it; which shows that admonitions to persevere patiently and keeps themselves from aligning or falling into error which often comes into the church will be needed for this benefit.

Verse 4 and 5 show the seven churches in Asia and how they typify the sevenfold Spirit of God at the throne. This could be a template of the churches throughout the Church Age; or as some say chronologically roughly describing the state of the church; i.e. the Philadelphia church being the one that brought revival in the 1700s and through the early 1900's and the Laodicean one being the last days one of today which certainly seems to be the state the church is in today in general.

Verse 5 shows Christ's being the first begotten (or firstfruits) of the Resurrected dead; as well as the faithful witness Himself; and His position as the prince of the kings of the earth. Verse 6 clues us in about later passages in Revelation stating that we are made "kings and priests"

(that is those faithful believers today).

Verse 7 also alludes to later verses of the Second coming; as well as a preview of the sixth seal judgment. It also shows a foreshadow of Zechariah 12:12-14 when Israel as a whole finally realizes at the last moment before Christ returns that He is the true Messiah. Finally; the general observation of all those who will bow the knee ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11)

is previewed. Verse 8 about the Alpha and Omega shows the boundaries of time for all things from a Godhead ruling outside time itself.

Revelation-introduction

The theme of "was; is and is to come" is seen in both Revelation 1:8 and 4:8. With the book of Revelation talking about the "Alpha and Omega" and describing the glorified Christ where John fell at His feet as though dead (1:17); not to mention the theme of His opening the seal judgments; being the sole victor at Armageddon; and ruling on earth it is inconceivable that some have actually suggested that Christ ISN'T the main theme of the whole book of Revelation.

The fate of every individual; whether taking the mark of the Beast or not; and of all who are saved or lost; what their judgments will be; and the absolute determination of the time and manner of judgments is determined by the Godhead alone; specifically the Father and Son. Only those who have the Spirit are those "wise who will understand". ( Daniel 12:10; to be read in context with the rest of the verse). God will indeed use the Tribulation to sanctify some; to do a quick work on the earth. But the unregenerate despite whatever facts that they have at their disposal curse God; and rebel against Him whether during the worst trial the world has ever seen ( Mark 13:19); as well as after the descendants of the survivors of the Tribulation into the Millennium who have the BEST world imaginable who follow Satan in the last rebellion.

The wicked truly will think they are doing God a favor in killing true believers ( John 16:2). We have seen these things before in history with martyrdom; but never at the scale and madness of the Tribulation. We need to see the intensity of that time as part of the great final harvest; a purification to finally wake up the nation of Israel (the one third who come to faith in Zech. 13:9) as well as bring in those of an uncountable number who hear the message of the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9-17). The consummation of the ages brings His church back to rule and reign with Christ and then final judgment of the wicked. Then comes a sinless new heaven & earth.

Bro Adam,

Jesus acknowledges that his Father is his God, and Jesus also claims that he is God - like his Father.

Some see a contradiction in these two truths, and so they usually deny one, or the other of them. It has always been a challenge for some to understand this relationship of the Godhead/Trinity in human terms.

In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus tells Apostle John in "no uncertain terms" that he is God.

Revelation 1:8

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 1:11

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:17

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Revelation 1:18

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

Revelation 22:13

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

GBU