Discuss Revelation 20 Page 8

Hi Alex N; glad to hear from you again, this subject is one of great depth concerning the kingdom, perhaps I understand this doctrine differently than you do as the first dispensation and manifestation of the kingdom has happened already. When we were born again we enter the kingdom John 3:5 The Apostle Paul taught we were translated from darkness into the kingdom of Christ, which I believe refers unto our spirit alone in Colossians 1:13 Again we already received the kingdom in Hebrews 12:28 These truths cannot be denied, Yet we look forward to the millennial kingdom of God as in Revelation 20:4 knowing this kingdom of Christ will come as you mentioned in Revelation 12:10 which indicates the middle of the seven year tribulation. Now we differ as I believe the man child are the sons of God, Christians who are mature, being led by the Holy Ghost, as in Romans 8:14 I cannot accept the man child to be the Holy Ghost, for the man child is raptured in Rev. 12:5-6 in the middle of the tribulation, yet the bible affirms constantly the Holy Ghost is here on earth working in the 144,000 the two witnesses, and all children of God during the tribulation, and such like. I do not interpret the woman as humanity, like you do, as the woman to me is the church of Jesus Christ as in Rev. 12:17 she has the testimony of Christ and keeps commandments, Israel does not have these things, and the world does not have these things either, only the church can have these things. Remember the woman is clothed with the sun, a metaphor for the gospel, the moon under her feet, meaning to have power over Satan and all fallen angels, which only the church has in the name of Jesus Christ. You are right to call the city New Jerusalem the kingdom of heaven, as this kingdom of God comes after the millennial kingdom of Christ, yet it is the final manifestation of the kingdom of heaven. I will ask therefore, have you taken into account, not all Christians will make it into the kingdom. Mat.7:21

Revelation 20:2,

This is what I understand to be true after doing a little reading in my study bible.

The Davidic kingdom to be restored by Christ : it's character and extent

Isaiah 11 This chapter is a prophetic picture of the glory of the future kingdom, which will be set up when David's son returns in glory.

Luke 1: 31-32; Acts 15:15-16

Isaiah 11:9 -10 They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,

For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD

As waters cover the sea.

"And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,

Who shall stand as a banner to the people;

For the Gentiles shall seek Him,

And His resting place shall be glorious."

How Crist will set up the kingdom

Isaiah 11:11-12

It shall come to pass in that day

That the LORD shall set His hand again the second time

To recover the remnant of

His people who are left,

From Assyria and Egypt,

From Pathros and Cush,

From Elam and Shinar,

From Hamath and the islands of the sea. He will set up a banner for the nations,

And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,

And gather together the dispersed of Judah

From the four corners of the earth.

Habakkuk 2:14

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD As waters cover the sea.

Zechariah 12:8 "In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them."

The moral characteristics of the kingdom are to be righteousness and peace. The meek, not the proud , will inherit the earth; longevity will be greatly increased; the knowledge of the LORD will be universal;

beast-ferocity will be removed;

absolute equity will be enforced; and open sin will be visited with instant judgement; whereas the enormous majority of earth's inhabitants will be saved Psalms 2:9; Isaiah 11:4,6-9; 26:9; 65:20; Zacharia 14:16-21

The NT Revelation 20:1-5 adds a detail of immence significance

Revelation 22 THE BIBLE

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man SHALL ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in THIS BOOK:

19 And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in THIS BOOK.

Revelation 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; "and the books" were opened:

and another book was opened, which is the BOOK OF LIFE and the dead were judged out of those things which were written "in the books", according to THEIR WORKS.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was NOT WRITTEN in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Psalms 56:8

Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in THY BOOK?

Psalms 139:16

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in THY BOOK all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Exodus 32:33

And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of MY BOOK.

Malachi 3:16 - Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Mishael comment: if you read slowly you will see differences in Book of Life, THIS BOOK, "in the Books", Book of Remembrance, My Book, Thy Book:

There are Books that record our deeds, confessions (good or evil). Has anyone let fly some "language?" My motto is for me_repent as fast as it took to me to disparage on someone or something.

Grace,

If I may ask a few questions just on part one? Forgive me if I misunderstand the post. What scripture says the rest of the dead are unjust? You listed Daniel 12:2 and we also have John 5:28-29, Matthew 25:31-46, Acts 24:15, do we just overlook these? In the white throne judgement are not the books opened. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Revelation 20:11-15. In this judgement of all nations there will be those that are told well done my faithful servant and those unworthy their reward, the lake of fire. This is my understanding.

God bless,

RLW

I was quoting Jesus in that case, who says that God is able to destroy both body and soul in hellfire. Matthew 10:28.

The Bible teaches us two resurrections: one for the just, and one for the unjust. John 5:28-29. The righteous are resurrected at the second coming of Christ, and those who are alive and remain at His coming are given new bodies at that time. 1 Thess 4:13-17; 1 Cor 15:51-53. After the thousand years, the unjust are resurrected, and at that time they face their judgment, which is total annihilation (and not without suffering). Revelation 20:4.

When Christ speaks of the worm that dies not, he is quoting from a passage in Isiaiah: Isaiah 66:24. This verse speaks of worms eating on the corpses of dead men. It is the worm that does not die, but the people are well dead, for they are merely corpses. There is no reason we should interpret worm here to mean "immortal soul," for there is no such thing. The soul that sins shall die: Ezekiel 18:4

The word Jesus uses in Mark 9:44,46 is Gehenna, which was a place of refuse. They kept the piles of garbage there burning so that it would be consumed away. This is the illustration Jesus employed for the fires of hell: fires which burn up all the garbage and get rid of it.

As for whether cessation from existence or eternal conscious torment are more terrifying to the wicked man... How many atheists have been made out of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, which is not true? They reject God because they think He is a monster, when in reality He is not. How are we supposed to love God with all of our heart if He is more sadistic than the worst madman we can imagine? That's precisely why the devil loves this doctrine.

Revelation 20:11-15 describes the wicked, as well as death and hell, being cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire here is symbolic of total destruction. Death is being abolished, as well as the grave, as well as all the wicked and all sin.

Hi Square. You've stated that 'soul & body are completely destroyed at the end of this world'.

Could you expand on that aspect? What is the difference between me dying now & returning to dust or ashes and the wicked also likewise destroyed in death? If their bodies, like mine return to ashes, where is their judgement? If their spirits & souls also become ashes (which I can't fathom how that can happen), where is the judgement & punishment?

If you mean that they will never enjoy eternal life with God, as far as I know, most sinners would be quite happy to be exterminated just so that they can enjoy their days on Earth as they wish, fulfilling their every lust. Surely, the Gospel given, brings a greater weight & conviction than just a future annihilation?

Finally, what should we do with the Scripture ( Mark 9:44,46) where Jesus warns that the wicked's worm (flesh) never dies (or, consumes away) in hell's fire? And Revelation 20:11-15.

The Bible does not teach eternal conscious torment. The consistent testimony of scripture is that "the wages of sin is death," and not eternal life. Romans 6:23; Genesis 2:17; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 1 John 5:12. It was the devil who first taught that one could sin and still have eternal life. Genesis 3:4. Jesus came to save us from perishing, and to give us eternal life, not to save us from living forever. John 3:16.

Hellfire is something that takes place at the end of this world, and not at death. John 5:28,29; Matthew 13:40. In it, soul and body are completely destroyed. Matthew 10:28; 2 Thess 1:9. It will consume the wicked into ashes. Revelation 20:9; Malachi 4:1-3; Psalm 37:20. Even the devil will be consumed to ashes. Ezekiel 28:18,19; Isaiah 47:14.

In the new earth, when all sin has been eradicated, there will be no more suffering or pain or death. Revelation 21:4.

Alex. Malachi 3:1-4 is a prophecy concerning the refining & purification of Levi so that Judah's & Jerusalem's offering will "be pleasant to the LORD". Nothing to do with us, now or later.

The red heifer sacrifice ( Numbers 19:1-10) was burnt far away from the Tabernacle & only its blood was sprinkled on the door of the Tabernacle, the carcass burned & its ashes stored separately & used for purification purposes. This was only a special sacrifice & has nothing to do with destruction of "our old evil nature". Even as Jesus was crucified & "suffered without the gate", his death meant that we would be saved from the awful penalty for sin & our "old Adamic nature" will always be with us & not consumed, until the day our redemption is completed.

As for the Lake of Fire, we read in Revelation 20:10-15, that the Devil was cast into the Lake of Fire & brimstone, where the beast & false prophet are & will receive eternal torment. You seem to equate the 'baptism of fire' with the 'Lake of Fire'. Not so. This a physical place of torment for the Evil one & his disciples, whoever was not found written in Book of Life. If, as you believe, that all sinners (even Christ-rejecters) will one day be saved, then who are those who join Satan in that awful place? Unless, you believe that Satan must also receive forgiveness.

Your reading & understanding of the Scriptures takes an entirely different route to most people's, even the well-studied, & creates such a wide separation where our paths can never intersect. There is very little common ground on which we can base any further discussion. Thank you for your time Alex.

Cowboy:

If you are in the First RESURRECTION you will NEVER see death, death has been destroyed.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIE anymore........being the children of resurrection.

John 6:50 .... that a man may eat thereof, and NOT DIE.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE ....

Matthew 16:28 There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death .....

John 8:51 .....if a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION....and shall reign with Christ a thousand years.

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Brother Dan. I'm glad that you found the time to go through that article. To that end & in light of your comments, I would add or clarify:

a. Your quote of Page 4 of Ironside's article: God our Father & Jesus our Judge. I understand that God deals with His children as just that - His children, as those adopted into His family through His Son. We can never be judged again for our sins - we faced judgement when we came to the Cross & gazed upon the crucified One, trusting Him to bear our sins & reconcile us to God. Now judgement remains for those who reject the offer of salvation. As sons, He will chastise us (even as a good father would - Hebrews 12:5-11), whether that gentle warning or more severe dealing with, that we may realize our error & come back into sweet fellowship. The only time we see Jesus as our Judge, is at His Judgement Seat (called, Bema) where rewards are given as per our earthly Christian conduct ( 2 Corinthians 5:10; cf 1 Corinthians 3:12-15) when the full worth of our Christian lives will pass by us. The judgement of the unsaved is certain ( Revelation 20:11-15) where even the good that they have done cannot save them.

James 1:5-7, John 16:13-15, Proverbs 2:1-12, 2 Timothy 3:16, Deuteronomy 30:10-12, Matthew 13:44, hopefully these encourage you.

What kjv publisher is true to 1611?

I have 'kjv authorized 1611' published by Holman.... Very concerned if its not *accurate *.... How can I possibly know which publisher!?

Google search bring up SO many articles! Can't read them all

Who to trust & how can ever know??

One article said Cambridge pub best?

Help! Thx

Earl.

I have heard Your logic, and your views,

All the scriptures you ever presented doesn't reflect those views.

I am not asking you to interpret anything.

I'm asking you to show me the scriptures you draw your belief from when you said, "Pasting your Quote"

( Brother S Spencer, May I add three more scriptures to 1 Corinthians 3:14 -15 that helps clarify it.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was NOT FOUND WRITTEN in the book of life was.)

End Quote.

You associated the refining fire mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3:14-15. with the Lake of fire in Revelation 20:15. According to your belief this is a refining fire and everyone will be resurrected. Some with Glorified bodies and some with Earthly bodies.

I'm saying if that is so who's those left without the Gate inRevelation 22:15.

with the resurrection being already passed

And Who is the unjust that will remain unjust Revelation 22:11. with the Resurrection being already passed?

Who are they!?

Brother S Spencer, New Jerusalem is not a Literal city, but a city whose houses are men, Son's of God, just like Christ. ( Hebrews 3:6) As all things were given to him by the Father, we are given all things by Christ, POWER to rule the nations. AS Moses was made a god over Pharaoh ( Exodus 7:1) the ELECT are going to be made gods over the nations, and the nations want be able to STAY THEIR HANDS.

In Ezekiel 38 this is describing the second resurrection.

In Revelation when John is describing the city (new Jerusalem) the talks about the walls of the city.

In out parts of prophecy it says our walls are salvation.

In Ezekiel 38:11 When Gog comes against the elect, it says UNWALLED villages.

Revelation 20:7 After the thousand years, flesh is released out of prison, death and the grave, the bottomless pit, and they come against the ELECT. But the Elect brings down the FIRE of the LORD on them. The stubble in the is BURNED UP.

Earl.

The verses you have given doesn't settle the question. Where's the scripture where everyone goes to heaven, Some with glorified bodies Some with early bodies?

Who's those left without the Gate in Revelation 22:15. ?

The resurrection has already past.

And Who is the unjust that will remain in Revelation 22:11. ?

The Resurrection has already past.

Here's the Redeemed. As well as the verses you have given.

" Revelation 20:4-6. "...

..6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: ON SUCH THE SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Here's the Lost. "Twice Dead "

Revelation 20:11-14. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.

You know for a person that once said that one can't just read the scripture for truth or Bible dictionaries ect.. You sure post a lot of Scripture.

WHO'S THOSE LEFT WITHOUT THE GATE AND REMAIN UNJUST After the Resurrection and Judgements?

Thanks Brother Earl.

I believe that fire in Revelation 20:15. is one I'm going to stay away from.

Brother S Spencer, May I add three more scriptures to 1 Corinthians 3:14 -15 that helps clarify it.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was NOT FOUND WRITTEN in the book of life was cast into the lake of FIRE.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall WORSHIP him, whose names ARE NOT WRITTEN in the book of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even the ones cast into the lake of fire), specially those ( the elect) that believe.

English Sacha. Is that what you have gleaned from what I addressed to Earl? You've made some assumptions that clearly are emotive rather than what I had written or is revealed in the Bible. We're discussing the fact of God's Judgement to all who are not saved through Jesus Christ.

How God decides who are worthy of judgement (whether some primitive soul or those with mental shortcomings, etc), is God's matter, not mine nor yours. If you believe this God of Love is incapable of judging sinners in such a manner, then you would need to consider the operation of God throughout Scriptures - i.e. He is indeed a God of Love but also a God of Justice. We can often be conditioned by the world & what we perceive to be right, to think of such a justice system as normal, as true. Whereas God's Justice always demands the correct penalty - and unfortunately, simply losing one's life in death (which happens to us all) is just one part of that justice. The wages of sin might indeed be death, but the wages for the rejection of God & His offer of salvation are far greater ( Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:7-9; Matthew 25:31-46; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Jude 1:6,7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10-15). And sister GiGi has also given a very apt response to you.

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The JWs brought in their elders to talk to me two days later. We discussed the same matter with our Bibles opened. They also spoke of death as sin's penalty (as you have) & that no other eternal fiery judgement awaited the unrepentant. So I asked, 'if you're preaching a salvation that ultimately finds one in the everlasting Presence of God, are you then saying that death is the only punishment for the ungodly?' They affirmed that.

I then asked, 'But if we all die & some are raised incorruptible to reign with Christ & God, what then is the judgement for sin & Christ rejection?' 'Only death', they said. 'So does it makes any sense that an innocent Jesus, God's Son, should suffer an horrible death for us, the apostles should willingly lay down their lives for the love of Christ & the Gospel, & countless others have not denied their Saviour, many walking joyfully to the stake of fiery death, just so that the sinner's present & final judgement rests only in the grave?' Those men arose & left.

If it wasn't for the fact that Jesus was my sin-Bearer, bringing me into a new & right relationship with the Godhead, and that eternal suffering was my certain destiny, then I would not be a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ today - I would be quite satisfied to 'eat, drink & be merry', die a natural death without a Saviour, maybe raised up later for judgement & put to death again with no further consciousness in the grave. But when conviction came, I ran into the arms of a merciful Saviour in Heaven because I fled from the arms of a ruthless Satan awaiting his fiery destiny ( Revelation 20:10, 21:8). The Offence of the Cross is ceased if any other Gospel is preached that provides an easy road to indifferent sinners.

Brother Chris, the wages of sin is death and the grave. Our sin, most of which, is unbelief, causes death, and when we are dead we cannot bring glory to our creator. Christ died and was resurrected to restore this condition. Christ overcomes sin in our lives, therefore at some point in time, death will be destroyed. Those called out in this age are coming to this knowledge. Those not called out in this age will be resurrected back to their flesh and brought to truth.

Luke 16:26 The gulf that can't be passed over is death and the grave, locked in prison.

Matthew 5:25-26 In this scripture our (flesh) is the adversary to God (Spirit) if we don't agree with Him, he delivers us to the judge (Christ, the words and chastisement), if we still don't agree, he delivers us to the officer (death) and cast us into prison (grave).

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan (flesh) shall be loosed out of prison (death and the grave), the gulf that couldn't be crossed.

Christ has the keys to death and the grave. His resurrection unlocked and destroyed death and the grave, we are restored to Sons of God. ( Job 38:7)( Revelation 22:16)

Job 17:13-16

Chris, for fifty plus years, I was taught and BELIEVED in a Literal place called heaven and a Literal place called hell.

God stopped me dead in my tracks and isolated me for five plus years with his word and his Spirit, and taught me what the Kingdom of God actually is. It not a place, it's a person, Sons of God, like Christ himself.

All of creation are brothers and sisters, of an in CHRIST, and at God's appointed time, each and everyone with be delivered, By CHRIST, into the Kingdom of God.

Your friend: What if the scriptures mean this:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

What if: Those that sleep in Jesus are the Old Testament Saints that died never receiving the promised victory over death, but had to wait on Christ resurrection.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many of the bodies of the saints which slept (in Jesus) arose (with Christ),

Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared to many.

What if: the holy city was New Jerusalem and not Old Jerusalem.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

What if: those that are alive and remain, are the ones that had their part in the first resurrection and never saw death.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that had part in the first resurrection......

John 8:51 .....he shall never see death.

The saints from the Old Testament and those that never see death, all took part in the first resurrection. These want prevent those left in their graves from seeing a future resurrection.

This (first) resurrection want prevent those still in their graves from seeing a future (second) resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall shall rise first.

What if: the is just reaffirming the above verses, the saints and the ones who died with Christ having their part in the first resurrection; making sure we know there are two resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain (alive because we never saw death) shall be caught up together with them (saints of old) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Brother Earl,

I believe the same observation could be of many church-going folks, the building with whatever name that's put on it has become the church, not the people, lost in routines, many are called but few are chosen. It is sad when attendance is put above all. When Jesus first came was for the lost sheep of Israel, and to fulfill the law and the prophets. To confirm and fulfill the first and confirm the New in, the likeness of sinful flesh, what we see in Daniel 9:27 that many put at the end time.

I agree hell is not a place for the condemned and paradise is not a place for the righteous as holding places of the dead. I have not found one verse that say we go to heaven. In Revelation 20:14 we see the last enemy; death and its holding place hell (the grave) are cast into the lake of fire. In scripture when we die the grave is our home of corruption and if the same Spirit dwell in us, we will be raised by the Spirit that raised Christ, in incorruption in our immortal glorified body, death is swallowed up in victory.

When Jesus first came the land was highly influenced by Greco-Roman philosophy. Whether we believe it or not it still has influence on today, the meaning of death, immortal souls, monasticism that Jesus called Nicolaitans, and more.

As we see in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18 Jesus gave the keys of the kingdom and what is bound or loosed in earth will be done so in heaven. The reason of all the parables was the mysteries of the kingdom was not for them to know but for those who were chosen.

I agree in most of your post but if I understand correctly those after resurrection being brought into the fold. I struggle lining that up with the white throne judgment of the rest of the dead. Revelation 20:11-15. These are not all lost people, there will be some not cast into the lake of fire because the book of life is opened and only those not written in it will be cast in to the lake of fire.

Have a great day and God bless,

RLW

Brother Keven:

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Acts 1:11 Which (two Angels; glorified messengers) also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing into heaven (they could only see heaven as the blue sky above them)? this same Jesus, which is taken up into heaven (INTO MAN), shall so come in like manner (IN MAN) as ye have seen him go into heaven (INTO MAN).

Revelation 1:7 Behold he (Christ) cometh (at the resurrection of the DEAD) with the CLOUDS (the SAINTS clothed in CHRIST), and every eye shall see him (because there will be millions of Saints that are the IMAGE OF CHRIST), and they also which pierced him (in Christ appearance to Thomas he bore the marks of the cross in his glorified flesh, the word doesn't say; but since we were crucified with him we could also bear the marks of the cross, for all the world to see): and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horseman (not literal, but the Saints) were two hundred thousand thousand (not literally that exact number, signified) .....

Revelation 20:7 An when the thousand years (not literal, but signified, the Day of the Lord or the AGE of Grace or the AGE of those CHOSEN to be PRIEST, CHOOSEN to be covered by the blood of the LAMB and DEATH PASSED OVER THEM.) are expired, Satan (terrestrial flesh, those resurrected back to judgement) shall be loosed out of his prison (DEATH AND THE GRAVE).

Matthew 5:25 ....and thou shalt be cast into PRISON (DEATH AND THE GRAVE).

The wages on sin (UNBELIEF, all other sins are COVERED BY THE BLOOD) IS DEATH (and the GRAVE).

Sister Sacha, Christ is going to stand on this earth in GLORIFIED FLESH. The Saints also who have been CREATED in the IMAGE of CHRIST, with the same GLORIFIED FLESH, as Christ are going to stand with Him, and together they (being made ONE, same BODY and same MIND) are going to JUDGE THE EARTH IN RIGHTEOUSNESS ( Isaiah 26:9).

Luke 24:9 Behold my hands and my feet, that it (glorified flesh) IS I MYSELF: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me have.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 ALL FLESH is not the SAME FLESH .....one celestial and one terrestrial .....

This is hard to wrap our minds around, Christ has a body that can exist IN MAN, or stand in the presents of man.

It's even harder to wrap our minds around the fact that we ALSO are going to have this SAME BODY.

This is what the thousand year reign with Christ is all about. The thousand years are not LITERALLY ONE THOUSAND YEARS, but one day (DAY OF THE LORD which has been happening now for two thousand years) is as a thousand years and a thousand years as on day ( 2 Peter 3:8).

Matthew 20:1-16 Christ went out at the first of the day (of the Lord) to call workers to his vineyard.

This would apply to all those that were apostles and received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

When they departed their terrestrial bodies they were given celestial bodies and they are still working in God's vineyard ( Revelation 10:11)( John 1:51)( Genesis 28:12).

Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels ...

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Luke 20:36 ...neither can the die anymore, for they are equal to the angels ...

For the last two thousand years (one day, God has been calling workers to work in God's vineyard vineyard; first in a terrestrial body and then in a celestial body.

You are a worker NOW in a terrestrial body; when you DEPART your terrestrial body, you will NEVER SEE DEATH, but CONTINUE being a worker in your CELESTIAL BODY. ( Revelation 20:6)

Sister Sacha, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

In reading your past comments I know you think you are going to lay in the grave until the resurrection of the dead.

God's word says those born again (IN CHRIST, IN the book of LIFE) will never see death. You LIFE is IN CHRIST, Christ is IMMORTALITY.

You were RAISE with CHRIST (this is the first resurrection)

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he (you Sacha) that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION; on such the second death hath no power, but they (you Sacha) shall be priests of God, and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Luke 20:35 But they (you Sacha) which shall BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY (you Sacha are CHOSEN) to obtain that world (the same way and glory Christ always had with the Father in that world) and the resurrection (you Sacha and Christ died together and were raise together, Sacha in Christ and Christ in Sacha, made ONE) from the dead .....

Luke 20:36 Neither can they (you Sacha) DIE anymore: for they (you Sacha) are EQUAL to the angels (Christ is the angel of God); and are the children of God, being the children of the (you Sacha and Christ) RESURRECTION.

God bless you!

Brother SAM:

Ephesians 2:6 And (God, the Father) hath raised US up TOGETHER (you and Christ) and made us (you and Christ) sit together (become one) in heavenly places.

This is the first death and resurrection (you died with Christ and were raised with Christ).

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he (you and Christ) that hath part in the first resurrection ....

Matthew 19:6 Therefore they (you and Christ) are no more twain, but ONE FLESH. What therefore God (SPIRIT) hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

GBU

Hello Tony. Thank you for your further clarification; previously I wasn't clear as to how you were viewing these passages. If I may explain my understanding:

a. Jeremiah 31:34 & Micah 7:18-20. I believe we see these passages differently. In both passages, I see a new Covenant God made & now brings in for Israel. This is not the New Covenant in Christ's Blood which avails for all men, but another Covenant that is different from the Mosaic ( Jeremiah 31:31,32) (& by inference, the Davidic) - a Covenant which will be unconditional (v32); it will include a change in their hearts, fellowship with God, knowledge of God, & forgiveness of sins (vv33-34). In Truth, all this avails for them through the Messiah of God, Whom they rejected & crucified; & so they go the same way as the Gentiles who reject God's Offer of Salvation. Yet, there will be a day in the Millennium, when they will finally acknowledge the One "Whom they pierced" & God will confirm this Covenant made to them & their sins will be forgiven. And also with Micah 7:11-20: God will fulfil His Promises to Israel, to Abraham, & to the fathers of old (v20). These verses also speak of that special time of forgiveness & blessing to the House of Israel.

b. Revelation 20:10. This verse aligns with Revelation 19:19,20; that the beast & his false prophet were first cast into the Lake of Fire. And Revelation 20:10 shows that Satan also joins them there & their torment will be eternal. So, I don't understand, "Since the wicked are raised from their fiery grave, why do they need a second judgement?" Which 'raising' are you referring to? And which 'wicked'? But if you're referring to vv 11-15 (Great White Throne Judgement), the Books were opened & their names were not found therein - & those dead were raised to judgement, including the finality of death & hell, were all likewise consigned to that eternal flame.

So I sense that our interpretation of these passages may differ, which I'm happy to pursue.

Hi Chris, Hi, the "torment" being used for 'testing', in your understanding, does this 'testing' continue eternally without any finality to their judgement?" On Jeremiah 31:34, I am referring to Micah 7:18-20 refers to the remnant of God, "Thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea." The wicked have no part nor have another opportunity for redemption. The "testing" is given by God for the redeemed sake. God's judgment is final. It is not a testing time for unbelievers, but for the saints to know why our loved ones are not with us.

The "stone" referred to in Mathew 21 was used for joining two walls together, you are correct. Also, I see Matthew 21:24 emphasizing the result of rejecting the stone that crushes them. This is the way I view the Greek Lithos, Strong NT 928 and NT 939 in both Matthew and Revelation 20:10. Since the wicked are raised from their fiery grave, why do they need a second judgement? Have they not been previously suffering under the flames of eternity, some for thousands of years?

This is not a testing time to see if the lost get another chance at salvation. When the Books are opened, there will be no doubt why the lost are lost. We will be able to read the facts for ourselves. I cannot understand Revelation 20:10 and the raising of the wicked for any other reason.

I enjoy our study together. "Iron sharpens iron." Please continue to share your thoughts on the subject. Or any other topic of interests you may have. Blessings!

DALE E STAHLBERG,

From the first Adam, all have sinned Romans 5:12. Even without the law we have sinned, there are people in this world that do much evil and there are people in this world that do much good and neither have never seen a bible or heard of Jesus. From the first Adam, not only death was passed, every person is born with the knowledge of good and evil, it is written in our conscience. With or without the knowledge of the law, one may choose to either do evil or do good.

We see in Romans 2:12-15, read the entire chapter. Jesus first came almost 2000 years ago, the Messiah for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then by the grace of God, the gospel of Jesus was given to all the other nations. Millions of people lived and died before He first came, are they doomed to eternal death? Millions since have never heard of Him, are they doomed?

What we should contemplate, will we that have heard the gospel of Jesus be held to a higher standard of judgment? We see when Jesus sent the disciples out to tell people the kingdom of heaven is at hand, what it would be like if they rejected it. Matthew 10:14-15.

Many see the great white throne judgment is only for the lost, but in my understanding, scripture does not support that. We have Daniel 12:2 John 5:28-29 Matthew 25:31-46, and more, and the parables. After the one thousand years, Revelation 20:11-15. All the rest of the dead small and great, raised from the dead, they will be judged out of the books and one of these books is the book of life, and whoever was not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Would the book of life be needed if all were lost? God is a just God and we can trust in His word.

This is my understanding, may others have another view.

God bless,

RLW