Off to work; but I wanted to conclude saying that when spiritual fruit isn't in church then we see an example or model at best of a worldly business structure; and at worse aren't discerning what needs to be done. There is more of course than financial matters here but it is a litmus test as it were. The most serious issue is when someone has discernment and basically is ignored as a lone voice or voices of reason; and that can extend to abuse issues or warnings of things to come which everyone should take heed to.
Proper support when things are done right of course is equally necessary; but again as stated before a lot of people just would rather give tithes and not be part of decision making when they can be and allow whatever happens as though it is in a vacuum.
That can also be the case with doctrinal issues or error creeping in; laypersons may see among them or others entering the flock danger signals which Pastors may either deliberately ignore or in the case of a church not already ascribing to error of some sort involving ego a Pastor often is too busy and we shouldn't expect them to be able to function in all capacities. Elders and deacons have responsibility to keep error out of the flock but often may not see it right away either. The proper fruit of the Spirit therefore is concerned with matters within a local congregation which individual manifestations should interact; rather than everyone caught up in their own experiences which without such interaction can become self serving or lead to unforeseen traps.
Prayer by laying on of hands today for spiritual gifts seems in my opinion to still be an option today; but of course warings come not to do this hastily as someone demon possessed or influenced may have a negative affect if a person is prayed for prematurely. Testing the spirits in general from what I see due to lack of spiritual giftings of discernment is an extremely serious situation today.
Off to work; but I wanted to conclude saying that when spiritual fruit isn't in church then we see an example or model at best of a worldly business structure; and at worse aren't discerning what needs to be done. There is more of course than financial matters here but it is a litmus test as it were. The most serious issue is when someone has discernment and basically is ignored as a lone voice or voices of reason; and that can extend to abuse issues or warnings of things to come which everyone should take heed to.
Proper support when things are done right of course is equally necessary; but again as stated before a lot of people just would rather give tithes and not be part of decision making when they can be and allow whatever happens as though it is in a vacuum.
That can also be the case with doctrinal issues or error creeping in; laypersons may see among them or others entering the flock danger signals which Pastors may either deliberately ignore or in the case of a church not already ascribing to error of some sort involving ego a Pastor often is too busy and we shouldn't expect them to be able to function in all capacities. Elders and deacons have responsibility to keep error out of the flock but often may not see it right away either. The proper fruit of the Spirit therefore is concerned with matters within a local congregation which individual manifestations should interact; rather than everyone caught up in their own experiences which without such interaction can become self serving or lead to unforeseen traps.
Prayer by laying on of hands today for spiritual gifts seems in my opinion to still be an option today; but of course warings come not to do this hastily as someone demon possessed or influenced may have a negative affect if a person is prayed for prematurely. Testing the spirits in general from what I see due to lack of spiritual giftings of discernment is an extremely serious situation today.
Gotta run. Agape.
RP
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