@ Michael. I take it you did not read what I wrote to Vic. Your ideas come from a false book as well. Your ideas are also entertained by the Mormon religion. Are you Mormon? Thank you for choosing to pray for all of us, but pray for what? Believing the book of Enoch over your book of Jasher theory does not put one's salvation in jeopardy. I was just saying you may want to educate yourself on what you are talking about and what you believing before trying to pass it off as true fact. Next time be sure to shake the dust off of your feet BEFORE you enter a conversation rather than as you are running away.
michael, i asked you a question if you believed that the dead sea scrolls were authentic. you have not answered. there were several copies of the book of enoch among the dead sea scrolls yet you havent questioned the other dead sea scrolls' authenticity. heck, i've asked you several questions and you just dodge and go back to denying the book of enoch's authenticity. the style its written in IS different but why wouldnt that be because enoch was the only human to be taken to Heaven and be transformed? its funny that the book of enoch mentions transformation because thats what the Bible says will happen. we will all receive new bodies when He returns.
NOWHERE does it say in the Bible "sons of seth" or "daughters of cain". just because you find the idea of the sons of God being fallen angels that had sex w/ human women, ridiculous, doesn't mean it didnt happen. it means that you want to call God a liar and pick and choose what you want to believe. jude 6:7 CLEARLY says that the angels gave themselves over to fornication and strange flesh. (i asked you what you thought that passage meant and you dodged that too) God compares them to sodom and gomorrah. but you think that idea is ridiculous. but yr also the guy who thinks the angel michael is really Jesus. that is a mormon belief and not christian at all. moromnism is a cult and not remotely christian. its apparent that you are here to spread false doctrine. thankfully, no one here is falling for yr heresy. thats why yr leaving this site. i will pray for you also.
Again, you mention the book of Enoch. Again, I stress it's a false book.
@Daniel Brown
There is nothing in that passage in Job that makes the relation to "sons of God" being angels. Satan coming to a meeting between God and his angels, after his fall, is just as irrelevant as Satan coming to a meeting between God and men, or God and representatives from other planets that did not suffer the same fate as mankind. Logic dictates that you can't make that kind of assumption.
I choose to pray for all of you. I'll not make another comment on this site again. If you wish to believe that angels came down from Heaven and had sex with women, a notion in which I find to be utterly ridiculous, then that is your business. I shake the dust from off my feet.
@ Michael. I would like to strongly urge you to make sure you are 100% when it comes to your commentary on the Bible, Michael. You said "Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about angels being the sons of God" You may want to read the entire Bible before making such bold statements. It is agreed that the "Sons of God" refered to in the book of Job (1:6 and 2:1) are referring to angels. When you actually read those verses, sons of God being humans doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The verses are obviously talking about a meeting God has with those he has given tasks to and Satan showing up would be a more natural meeting than if these sons of God were actual men. Do you think those men would truly be able to witness the conversations being had between God and Satan? We have to remember that God has a whole slew of things for the angels to be doing right now and even back then. Some gave up and decided to leave the presence of god and the others are up for the challenge. They obviously have free will ( Jude 6) and could easily come down and show man all of the gifts and knowledge god had given to them. One would have to agree that the events in Enoch are at least a possibility, just as I agree that those things not happening are also a possibility. I would stop assuming what is or isn't in the Bible anymore and start learning it so you will not sound like you are just making things up.
@ Vic. I agree with you, Vic. I have heard the "Bloodline of Seth and Cain" explanation as well. That explanation actually came from the (false) book of Jasher. Now I do believe that the book of Jasher WAS real, but I am finding that it has been lost and the current book has at least 2 different versions and that is where you find things like the Seth and Cain bloodline stories (explaining the men of renown). Oddly enough, the Mormons seem to be all about this book. The Mormons are also the ones who say Michael is Jesus. Whether 1 Enoch is real or not, I do have to agree that the story about the fallen angels in 1 Enoch makes way more sense than any fundamentalist view regarding bloodlines of Seth and Cain. We can even take things a step further here and get rid of the idea of the fallen angels actually having intercourse with the daughters of men and attribute the Nephilim to technology. The reason why I believe this is because it would make sense that Lucifer want's to be like God and have his own kingdom to rule. I believe he does and has done this through technology. Manipulating genetics (E.G. DNA splicing, cloning, artificial insemination) probably existed even back then. When we do go back and read events from other civilizations, we clearly see technology existed. It is obvious those who brought technology to us wanted to see mankind get rid of the idea of God all together and worship them. So, we don't even need Enoch's writings to prove our own theory. We just have to look into history, read of these "men of renown"(Lord Pakal of the Maya, Ra of Egyptians, Zeus of Greece and so on) and see that these are not just myths, but stories of beings that actually existed and were obviously on this earth "...and even after that..." Gen 6:4. I believe if man wanted to turn their back on God, they would have just turned their back. I do not believe that man would have just decided to turn their back on God and then start fabricating new gods without any type of influence. That just owuld not make sense. What does make sense is the idea of fallen angels showing up and convincing man that they are the ones to truly be worshipped because of all of the awesome things they can do. This is why I truly believe the fallen angels are going to use this whole alien thing as part of the deception with the anti-christ and the false prophet. Only something so crazy would decieve people by the millions. The same things that happened in the days of Enoch are going to probably be very similar to what is going to happen in the future. I am just glad the Jesus has died for our sins, is going to return for us and rid the world of these abominations of the one true God; our father.
Biblical references to the book of Jasher can be found in Joshua 10:13 and 2nd Samuel 1:18-19.
It is believed this book has never really been found. The book seemed to have popped, out of nowhere, sometime in the last 800 years or so. Nobody has been able to authenticate it.
Michael, you responded about my comment "all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon..."
Michael "Why should that make a difference? All of those civilizations believed in pagan forms of worship, not Judaism or Christianity. What they believed has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all, nor does it have anything to do with the Bible."
actually it does. the book of enoch states that the fallen angels gave forbidden knowledge and technology to humanity. and sure enough we have evidence of advanced ancient civilizations everywhere. these civilaztions all had astronomical skills; the ability to build megaliths; highly advanced mathematics; and knowledge of agriculture. the aztecs, incas, egyptians all worshipped the fallen angels first, then the offspring, giants. some of the giants had huge conehead-like skulls which the egyptians tried to emulate with their crowns or even by binding their skulls. even the aztecs and mayans bound their skulls attempting to look like their gods. yes, these are all abominations before God, practicing a pagan religion and worshipping creatures that had been created, fallen angels or giants. there is evidence of an ancient nuclear explosion in India. the area is still radioactive. how did these ancient people die from a nuclear blast thousands of years ago? well they used forbidden knowledge/technology provided them by the fallen angels. the sanskrit texts describe flying "vimanas" that had "all the power of the universe" and they used them against each other in a war. it describes elephants catching fire from the blast; the food becoming irradiated; people's hair and fingernails falling out; water as the only defense from the heat and radiation. the description fits a nuclear blast yet it was written thousands of years ago. these civilizations all were destroyed by the Flood. does it sound incredible? sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have happened that way. the Bible doesn't specifically state that things happened that way but the evidence is there to see, ignoring it won't make it any less valid. and it still corresponds with God's word which is the most important thing.
@ michael, yr way off base here. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say anything about the bloodlines of either seth or cain. this weak explanation is one way people try to get around some really amazing events, namely that the "sons of God/fallen angels" DID mate w/ human women and spawn monstrous giants. THIS is the explanation you claim the Bible doesn't provide. The reason the CATHOLIC church, arguably the most evil religious institution on earth next to islam, rejects this book is because it was considered too unbelievable precisely because of the fallen angel/human women cohabitation. also the book of enoch is found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. do you have a problem with the Dead Sea Scrolls authenticity? I don't. jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"
what do you think "strange flesh" and fornication means? it means that the fallen angels absolutely did fornicate with human women which was an abomination before God. This is part of the reason God wiped out the earth with Noah's Flood. Remember the Bible says "Noah was perfect in all his generations..." meaning his bloodline had not been contaminated by the Nephilim.
You also said "Sin is the cause of all deformities and disease, so this very well could be the case." You are partially right. The existence of disease and evil things is because of sin BUT sin doesn't cause disease or deformities. Disease and deformities are the result of the human genome breaking down thru successive generations. Thats why in Leviticus a law is laid down that marrying a sibling is wrong. Becuase at that point in human history there there was no longer a reason to marry someone close to you relation-wise. Gross, I know but think about it, when the human race was decimated or even started, there were only a few people, they HAD to marry their relations,there was no one else. I Corinthians 11:9-10 says "9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels." This saying that women should cover her head, so as not to tempt the fallen angels and reserve herself for her husband.
You also said "Nowhere in the Bible does it refer to angels as the "sons of God". However, those who believe in Christ are called His sons and daughters, and also are sons and daughters of Abraham because, by believing in Him, they inherit GOD's promise to Abraham.
there are many references to the sons of God as angels, both fallen and good. This link discusses this Linkwatcher/enoch5.html
You also said the word "elect" is not used in the Bible. Wow, on this very website you can do a search and see the "elect" passages, all 24 of them.
One thing that you said is that the angel Michael is really Jesus? Where did you find that piece of heresy? Michael, you need to reread yr Bible and quit reading INTO it. Then you'll see that there isn't anywhere in the Bible about "sons of Seth or daughters of Cain". You seem to have yr own version of the Bible.
Nowhere in the Bible does it refer to angels as the "sons of God". However, those who believe in Christ are called His sons and daughters, and also are sons and daughters of Abraham because, by believing in Him, they inherit GOD's promise to Abraham.
I believe that the sons of God were angels and that they took wives and produced children. Jude 1:6. This is scripture that is very confusing and needs more clarity. The book of Job speaks of these sons of God as well.
Once again I must assert that this verse is not referring to fallen angels. Take a look at the Book of Enoch as compared to the rest of the Holy Scriptures. The Holy Scriptures often repeat themselves, however the Book of Enoch mentions things that no other book even bothered to mention. It also uses words such as "Ages" and the "elect". When I read things like that, about the "lord of the ages" or how the "elect" will be blessed...well, let's just say that those words scream the illuminati.
It is written: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24 KJV. Yet, the Book of Enoch says this "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked ⌈⌈and godless⌉⌉ are to be removed."
Open your mind for a minute and try to think why this book hasn't been accepted into the Canon. It's just like the rest of the Apocrypha - Vastly different from any other Canonical book.
The Book of Enoch also makes references to several angels. Here are some angels of note: Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel. However, Michael and Gabriel are the only angels mentioned in Canonical text. Uriel and Raphael, however, are mentioned in the Apocrypha. Putting the Apocrypha aside, how can we be led to believe that Uriel and Raphael, if they were real angels, weren't even important enough to mention in the rest of the scriptures if they play such a huge role in this supposedly important book? And, remember that Michael is actually Jesus Christ, for the name Michael actually means "He who is like GOD", therefore the only angel mentioned by name in the Canonical texts is Gabriel.
Also, you keep bringing up the existence of giants. I never argued against their existence. The Bible clearly states that they existed.
The Bible also assert's that Enoch existed. I never said he didn't. I also never said he wasn't a prophet. But you can't take the ONE cross reference between The Book of Enoch and The Book of Jude and just jump to the conclusion that The Book of Enoch is a Holy Book and that the early church rejected it because they were either misinformed or they were trying to hide something from the people.
You also make mention of Jude 1:6. How can one assume that Jude 1:6 is talking about the "fallen angels" from the Book of Enoch? Did you not forget that one-third of the angels in Heaven fell with Lucifer after they tried to stage a coup against the throne of GOD? I would assert that THESE are the angels that Jude is referencing here. It mentions this in Revelation 12:4 - "And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.”
You also mentioned this: "all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon..."
Why should that make a difference? All of those civilization believed in pagan forms of worship, not Judaism or Christianity. What they believed has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all, nor does it have anything to do with the Bible.
"as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost."
The Book of Enoch was considered to be a lost book for over 2000 years until 1773, when James Bruce returned from Ethiopia with three copies of it. Could it have existed for those 2000 years? Maybe. Did the church know about it or have it in their possession? No. Therefore it was lost to GOD's people.
Enoch was a prophet, but he didn't write this book. It's nothing but a farce - something to take your mind away from the truth, from the way things truly are, the things that truly exist, and, most importantly, GOD.
the sons of God ARE fallen angels, who breeded with human women, and the offspring was giants. there is no other way to interpret this. nowhere does it say that seth's offspring and cain's offspring were forbidden to marry. angels can take any form they choose, especially human form. didn't Lot originally believe the angels were simply travelers? didn't Jacob wrestle an angel? so although they are supernatural beings, they CAN take physical form. the original giants were up to "3000 ells" tall. we don't know exactly how big that is but I would guess 100 ft tall. by the time giants like Goliath were around the potency of the bloodline had abated, resulting in smaller giants. I would guess that Goliath was 9-12 ft tall. Og, king of Bashan was 16 ft tall. So it seems that giants could be many different sizes. There are verses which state that some giants had 6 fingers and 6 toes. there have been many dead or fossils of giants found that have 6 fingers, 6 toes and sometimes double rows of teeth.
there has been much debate about the authenticity of the book of Enoch. One author i've read, L.A. Marzulli, said that the early church accepted the book of enoch and it wasn't until later that it was rejected. it is written in the first person but the one difference between enoch and any other prophet with a book is that enoch never died. so if he indeed wrote a book, wouldn't it be different? there are also numerous refernces to enoch in the Bible. there are also references in the Bible to the invasion of fallen angels. Jude 1:6 "6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day". paul instructs a woman to cover her head I Corinthians 11:10, "because of the angels". the UFO phenomenon today is similar to when fallen angels came down before. the Flood was to destroy all life, the evil of man and the contamination of the earth by the giants.
all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon, ...the list goes on and on. the fallen angels/sons of God point of view is completely consistent with the Bible. as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost.
That is an excellent question. However, I never said that Enoch wasn't a prophet. As we know from Bible studies, not ever prophet had a book that went into the Bible, however. What I am saying is that someone could have very easily written the book of Enoch, claimed that Enoch wrote it, and put in that one cross reference that you mentioned to try to make it tie in with the Holy Scriptures. Obviously, any person that was serious about duping people with a "lost book of the Bible" would be a learned person, one who has studied the scriptures and knows them well, probably better than you and I.
Once again, I would wish to stress that if the book of Enoch is, in fact, legitimate, than it would have been in the Canon. You can rest assured in the fact that the LORD would not allow such an important book to go unseen and unread for so many years if it did, in fact, speak truth.
I had one question if the Book of Enoch is not true then where did Jude get the quote from Enoch.
Jude 1 : 14 - 15 (I get this verse from this site)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Enoch 2:1 (From Book of Enoch)
1Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.
The only problem with a book like that is that any Joe Schmo can find it (or even make it up) and claim it as a "lost book of the Bible". The Apocrypha, for instance, has very questionable validity, as it often contradicts other scriptures.
And you also have this:
“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:18
and this:
“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one pronunciation mark of the law to fail.” Luke 16:17
and this:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
What am I getting at? What I'm getting at is this: The word has been around since the beginning, since the word is GOD. It shall not pass away until all is fulfilled. That means that there wouldn't be a section of time where the word was "lost" and not known to exist. It would be silly for GOD to have a system exist for thousands of years to only throw at "oh, by the way" at us like John Carpenter throws plot twists. Sure, you could say that even if no one knew about the word of GOD, the word would still exist. However, I say this: If no one knew about the law of stopping at a red light, would anyone obey it? Would it be enforced? The answer is no. It would be as if the law never existed. If someone were to find this law again, it would be remembered, and exist again. However, GOD's law never passes away, so there can't be any "lost" books. The word has been around forever. Read your King James Bibles, be satisfied with them. Everything you need to know is in there. If you can't find the answer to something, pray about it. All things will become known to us in time.
You have misunderstood what I have said. The sons of Seth, which were the Sons of GOD, mingled with the daughters of man. They are of Cain's bloodline. THEY are the fallen ones, the nephilim.
A giant is a type of a "fallen one". In the Hebrew it's nephilim, meaning "fallen one". The root in Hebrew is napahl, meaning "he fell" in dictionary format. So ani naphalti ba cailef would mean I fell on a dog. It's the same root word as in Isiah 14: 12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! Were these sons of Cain, I don't think so. David and Joshua did not vanquish a bunch of humans with diseased Gigantism. Wake up, it's happening today. Why do you think when people call on the name of the Lord during a demonic alien abduction???
No, demons and people did not have sex. Demons are fallen angels, and angels do not have a gender. The "Sons of God" mentioned here are descendent's of Seth. They are called Sons of God because they followed God, whereas the daughters of man, coming from Cain's bloodline, did not. Because Seth's descendent's started marrying Cain's, they started adopting the pagan religions of Cain's descendent's, and the earth was filled with evil. Why were there giants? The Bible doesn't explain, but I believe that it very well could have been some sort of a deformity that happened due to the intermingling of Seth's bloodline and Cain's. Sin is the cause of all deformities and disease, so this very well could be the case.
I don"t understand fully how men became giants' i thought i heard it preached that demons and people had sex? is this right? yes we are living in the end times,i believe it is worse now than in Noah"s time, THE LORD IS COMING BACK VERY SOON SOONER THAN EVERYBODY THINKS
Looking at what is happening around us now, all the evil things that exits in this world. I ask the question, is God not anger now? Wake up world. God gave us another chance in life through his beloved and only Son Jesus Christ. I'm not prefect, but I try to get closer with the Lord. I pray for strenght as I go believing that God is and will always be with me as my spiritual guide.
NOWHERE does it say in the Bible "sons of seth" or "daughters of cain". just because you find the idea of the sons of God being fallen angels that had sex w/ human women, ridiculous, doesn't mean it didnt happen. it means that you want to call God a liar and pick and choose what you want to believe. jude 6:7 CLEARLY says that the angels gave themselves over to fornication and strange flesh. (i asked you what you thought that passage meant and you dodged that too) God compares them to sodom and gomorrah. but you think that idea is ridiculous. but yr also the guy who thinks the angel michael is really Jesus. that is a mormon belief and not christian at all. moromnism is a cult and not remotely christian. its apparent that you are here to spread false doctrine. thankfully, no one here is falling for yr heresy. thats why yr leaving this site. i will pray for you also.
Again, you mention the book of Enoch. Again, I stress it's a false book.
@Daniel Brown
There is nothing in that passage in Job that makes the relation to "sons of God" being angels. Satan coming to a meeting between God and his angels, after his fall, is just as irrelevant as Satan coming to a meeting between God and men, or God and representatives from other planets that did not suffer the same fate as mankind. Logic dictates that you can't make that kind of assumption.
I choose to pray for all of you. I'll not make another comment on this site again. If you wish to believe that angels came down from Heaven and had sex with women, a notion in which I find to be utterly ridiculous, then that is your business. I shake the dust from off my feet.
Biblical references to the book of Jasher can be found in Joshua 10:13 and 2nd Samuel 1:18-19.
It is believed this book has never really been found. The book seemed to have popped, out of nowhere, sometime in the last 800 years or so. Nobody has been able to authenticate it.
Michael "Why should that make a difference? All of those civilizations believed in pagan forms of worship, not Judaism or Christianity. What they believed has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all, nor does it have anything to do with the Bible."
actually it does. the book of enoch states that the fallen angels gave forbidden knowledge and technology to humanity. and sure enough we have evidence of advanced ancient civilizations everywhere. these civilaztions all had astronomical skills; the ability to build megaliths; highly advanced mathematics; and knowledge of agriculture. the aztecs, incas, egyptians all worshipped the fallen angels first, then the offspring, giants. some of the giants had huge conehead-like skulls which the egyptians tried to emulate with their crowns or even by binding their skulls. even the aztecs and mayans bound their skulls attempting to look like their gods. yes, these are all abominations before God, practicing a pagan religion and worshipping creatures that had been created, fallen angels or giants. there is evidence of an ancient nuclear explosion in India. the area is still radioactive. how did these ancient people die from a nuclear blast thousands of years ago? well they used forbidden knowledge/technology provided them by the fallen angels. the sanskrit texts describe flying "vimanas" that had "all the power of the universe" and they used them against each other in a war. it describes elephants catching fire from the blast; the food becoming irradiated; people's hair and fingernails falling out; water as the only defense from the heat and radiation. the description fits a nuclear blast yet it was written thousands of years ago. these civilizations all were destroyed by the Flood. does it sound incredible? sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have happened that way. the Bible doesn't specifically state that things happened that way but the evidence is there to see, ignoring it won't make it any less valid. and it still corresponds with God's word which is the most important thing.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"
what do you think "strange flesh" and fornication means? it means that the fallen angels absolutely did fornicate with human women which was an abomination before God. This is part of the reason God wiped out the earth with Noah's Flood. Remember the Bible says "Noah was perfect in all his generations..." meaning his bloodline had not been contaminated by the Nephilim.
You also said "Sin is the cause of all deformities and disease, so this very well could be the case." You are partially right. The existence of disease and evil things is because of sin BUT sin doesn't cause disease or deformities. Disease and deformities are the result of the human genome breaking down thru successive generations. Thats why in Leviticus a law is laid down that marrying a sibling is wrong. Becuase at that point in human history there there was no longer a reason to marry someone close to you relation-wise. Gross, I know but think about it, when the human race was decimated or even started, there were only a few people, they HAD to marry their relations,there was no one else.
I Corinthians 11:9-10 says "9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels." This saying that women should cover her head, so as not to tempt the fallen angels and reserve herself for her husband.
You also said "Nowhere in the Bible does it refer to angels as the "sons of God". However, those who believe in Christ are called His sons and daughters, and also are sons and daughters of Abraham because, by believing in Him, they inherit GOD's promise to Abraham.
there are many references to the sons of God as angels, both fallen and good. This link discusses this Linkwatcher/enoch5.html
You also said the word "elect" is not used in the Bible. Wow, on this very website you can do a search and see the "elect" passages, all 24 of them.
One thing that you said is that the angel Michael is really Jesus? Where did you find that piece of heresy? Michael, you need to reread yr Bible and quit reading INTO it. Then you'll see that there isn't anywhere in the Bible about "sons of Seth or daughters of Cain". You seem to have yr own version of the Bible.
Nowhere in the Bible does it refer to angels as the "sons of God". However, those who believe in Christ are called His sons and daughters, and also are sons and daughters of Abraham because, by believing in Him, they inherit GOD's promise to Abraham.
Once again I must assert that this verse is not referring to fallen angels. Take a look at the Book of Enoch as compared to the rest of the Holy Scriptures. The Holy Scriptures often repeat themselves, however the Book of Enoch mentions things that no other book even bothered to mention. It also uses words such as "Ages" and the "elect". When I read things like that, about the "lord of the ages" or how the "elect" will be blessed...well, let's just say that those words scream the illuminati.
It is written: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24 KJV. Yet, the Book of Enoch says this "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked ⌈⌈and godless⌉⌉ are to be removed."
Open your mind for a minute and try to think why this book hasn't been accepted into the Canon. It's just like the rest of the Apocrypha - Vastly different from any other Canonical book.
The Book of Enoch also makes references to several angels. Here are some angels of note: Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel. However, Michael and Gabriel are the only angels mentioned in Canonical text. Uriel and Raphael, however, are mentioned in the Apocrypha. Putting the Apocrypha aside, how can we be led to believe that Uriel and Raphael, if they were real angels, weren't even important enough to mention in the rest of the scriptures if they play such a huge role in this supposedly important book? And, remember that Michael is actually Jesus Christ, for the name Michael actually means "He who is like GOD", therefore the only angel mentioned by name in the Canonical texts is Gabriel.
Also, you keep bringing up the existence of giants. I never argued against their existence. The Bible clearly states that they existed.
The Bible also assert's that Enoch existed. I never said he didn't. I also never said he wasn't a prophet. But you can't take the ONE cross reference between The Book of Enoch and The Book of Jude and just jump to the conclusion that The Book of Enoch is a Holy Book and that the early church rejected it because they were either misinformed or they were trying to hide something from the people.
You also make mention of Jude 1:6. How can one assume that Jude 1:6 is talking about the "fallen angels" from the Book of Enoch? Did you not forget that one-third of the angels in Heaven fell with Lucifer after they tried to stage a coup against the throne of GOD? I would assert that THESE are the angels that Jude is referencing here. It mentions this in Revelation 12:4 - "And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.”
You also mentioned this: "all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon..."
Why should that make a difference? All of those civilization believed in pagan forms of worship, not Judaism or Christianity. What they believed has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion at all, nor does it have anything to do with the Bible.
"as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost."
The Book of Enoch was considered to be a lost book for over 2000 years until 1773, when James Bruce returned from Ethiopia with three copies of it. Could it have existed for those 2000 years? Maybe. Did the church know about it or have it in their possession? No. Therefore it was lost to GOD's people.
Enoch was a prophet, but he didn't write this book. It's nothing but a farce - something to take your mind away from the truth, from the way things truly are, the things that truly exist, and, most importantly, GOD.
there has been much debate about the authenticity of the book of Enoch. One author i've read, L.A. Marzulli, said that the early church accepted the book of enoch and it wasn't until later that it was rejected. it is written in the first person but the one difference between enoch and any other prophet with a book is that enoch never died. so if he indeed wrote a book, wouldn't it be different? there are also numerous refernces to enoch in the Bible. there are also references in the Bible to the invasion of fallen angels. Jude 1:6 "6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day". paul instructs a woman to cover her head I Corinthians 11:10, "because of the angels". the UFO phenomenon today is similar to when fallen angels came down before. the Flood was to destroy all life, the evil of man and the contamination of the earth by the giants.
all cultures have a version of the "gods came from the sky and gave us knowledge" stories. the aztecs, the egyptians, the mayans, native americans, the dogon, ...the list goes on and on. the fallen angels/sons of God point of view is completely consistent with the Bible. as for the book of enoch being a lost book. in ethiopia it was never lost. they have had it since forever. so the book was NEVER lost.
ahh thanks a lot for this enlightenment.
That is an excellent question. However, I never said that Enoch wasn't a prophet. As we know from Bible studies, not ever prophet had a book that went into the Bible, however. What I am saying is that someone could have very easily written the book of Enoch, claimed that Enoch wrote it, and put in that one cross reference that you mentioned to try to make it tie in with the Holy Scriptures. Obviously, any person that was serious about duping people with a "lost book of the Bible" would be a learned person, one who has studied the scriptures and knows them well, probably better than you and I.
Once again, I would wish to stress that if the book of Enoch is, in fact, legitimate, than it would have been in the Canon. You can rest assured in the fact that the LORD would not allow such an important book to go unseen and unread for so many years if it did, in fact, speak truth.
GOD Bless.
I had one question if the Book of Enoch is not true then where did Jude get the quote from Enoch.
Jude 1 : 14 - 15 (I get this verse from this site)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Enoch 2:1 (From Book of Enoch)
1Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.
regards,
umecks
The only problem with a book like that is that any Joe Schmo can find it (or even make it up) and claim it as a "lost book of the Bible". The Apocrypha, for instance, has very questionable validity, as it often contradicts other scriptures.
And you also have this:
“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:18
and this:
“And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one pronunciation mark of the law to fail.” Luke 16:17
and this:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
What am I getting at? What I'm getting at is this: The word has been around since the beginning, since the word is GOD. It shall not pass away until all is fulfilled. That means that there wouldn't be a section of time where the word was "lost" and not known to exist. It would be silly for GOD to have a system exist for thousands of years to only throw at "oh, by the way" at us like John Carpenter throws plot twists. Sure, you could say that even if no one knew about the word of GOD, the word would still exist. However, I say this: If no one knew about the law of stopping at a red light, would anyone obey it? Would it be enforced? The answer is no. It would be as if the law never existed. If someone were to find this law again, it would be remembered, and exist again. However, GOD's law never passes away, so there can't be any "lost" books. The word has been around forever. Read your King James Bibles, be satisfied with them. Everything you need to know is in there. If you can't find the answer to something, pray about it. All things will become known to us in time.
GOD Bless.
the book of enoc tells a clear story behind these giants.
You have misunderstood what I have said. The sons of Seth, which were the Sons of GOD, mingled with the daughters of man. They are of Cain's bloodline. THEY are the fallen ones, the nephilim.
No, demons and people did not have sex. Demons are fallen angels, and angels do not have a gender. The "Sons of God" mentioned here are descendent's of Seth. They are called Sons of God because they followed God, whereas the daughters of man, coming from Cain's bloodline, did not. Because Seth's descendent's started marrying Cain's, they started adopting the pagan religions of Cain's descendent's, and the earth was filled with evil. Why were there giants? The Bible doesn't explain, but I believe that it very well could have been some sort of a deformity that happened due to the intermingling of Seth's bloodline and Cain's. Sin is the cause of all deformities and disease, so this very well could be the case.