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"For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."(v.28) We shall compare it with is already stated."And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."(Rev.19.21)
Jesus in his discourse over the end times warned his disciples and it applies in our case as well. The heresy of sects also extends to eschatology, which is farther from truth. For example St Paul refers "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid." (Rom.6.1-4) A Russian sect Khlysty literally devoloping on these created an occasion for debauchery to which the name of Rasputin stands pre-eminent. He was a celebrity as we have similar rogues preaching another Christ and another gospel.
After the beast and his false prophet are sent to perdition we have an angel in the sun,"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;"(19.17) The carcase are the slain and the sun referred here is a sign. In the Covenant we read of two great lights provided for under day Four. The word sets Angel of the Lord associated with the Word was God. Thus we have the Word of God as the King of Kings, the angel of the Lord, the Word which was with God. Invitation is to all the fowls that flies, notice the expression, 'in the midst of of heaven. It is a direct reference to the four living creatures in the inaugural vision o Ezekiel.
In Rev.4 St John sees the single measurement the throne representing the Word, the four beasts 'represeting the eagles or over comers' and himself as the man. "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel." The 24 elders and four beasts together make up the body.
Hi dear "Duffy westmoreland" you can read this out loud whenever it is necessary. Stay clean and be close to the Almighty. Mark 8:31-33
Mark 8:31-33 Love u
God will not contend with man more than
120 years
Jubilee= 50
1 Day = 1000 years
7 Days of Creation = 7000 years timeline
Jesus waited 2 Days (risen and Lazarus)
Jesus will raise us after 2 Days
IF the year of His death is correct, this is hard to deny.
30 AD + 2 Days = X
30 AD + 2000 years = 2030 AD
I had a thought... maybe a clarification is needed. The bible talks about how God took six days to create everything and rested on the seventh. I understand that man should keep the sabbath day holy, but what is considered work? Cleaning? Cooking? Are doing those on the sabbath considered not keeping it holy?
Here we have four periods of time in which the day and the year refers to the Father relationship. Months and hour relate to Jesus in his relationship to the nation of Jews and the Gentiles.
This is your hour as in this verse,"When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness."(Lk.22.53)
We have an instance of the months with regards to the outer darkness, "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." (Rev.11.2) We are shown the beast in Rev.13.1 and in v.7 "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."(v.5) Notice this beast is given power from the devil to continue meaning that it the eight beast, an unclean spirit, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."(Rev.17.11) Perdition is narrated in the ch.19.20: "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
His arrival onto the world stage, yet to manifest itself continues from the little horn mentioned in the fourth beast in the night vision of Daniel Ch.7
Year and day is set lockstep with Father Son relationship. Jesus is word become flesh. What of Ezekiel whom God calls 'Son of man'? "and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year."(Ezek.4.6) Ezekiel serves as the double for Jesus.(Ezek.3.1-4)
I, too, could say much more on this to you, but I do not think it will be fruitful because we come from opposing approaches to what Scriptures reveal about God's people, what God promised to His people beginning with Adam and into the church age, which includes the promises to Abraham.
You see these promises to Abraham as being completely earthly in nature, but covenant/reformed believers see these earthy promises as the type of what God's people receive in Christ, which is the inheritance of true Israel, the antitype, which are spiritual in nature.
I know that you do not think along the lines of covenant reformed theology. But there is no anti-semitism in this theology. We do not wish to eliminate ethnic Israel, persecute them, or to treat them with malice. But we do see them as one ethnicity among a multitude across history who need salvation in Jesus in the same way and without this salvation by faith, they are lost, judged as NOT Israel by Scripture unless or until, as individuals they repent and turn to Jesus in faith for salvation.
We do not see ethnic Israel as any more special or preferred by God as any other people group. Yet we do see that ethnic Israel was chosen by God to be the repository of God's revelation in Scriptures, and as the genetic line that will bring forth the Seed promised in Gen. 3:16. who is the Messiah, whom they rejected at that time. Jesus said the the kingdom would be taken from that generation of Jews and given to a people that would bear fruit unto salvation. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish religious rites and the scattering of the Jews in 70 A.D. was the judgement of God upon that unbelieving, stiff-necked generation of Jews. From 70 A.D. on, ethnic Israel was cast out, with the exception of those throughout the centuries who turned to Jesus in faith.
You may think that this is equates as "replacement" of Israel. But it truly is not. It is what the NT Scriptures and the words of Jesus teach.
Let me be clear, I do not hold to Replacement Theology because Paul is clear that gentiles are grafted into Israel, not replacing it. But those of faith are of Israel, not ethnic Israel, unless one is a believer.
When people refer to "true Israel" this does not make them adherents to Replacement Theology. You error in this statement.
When I or others who ascribe to covenant theology speak of "true Israel", first and foremost, we are speaking of Jesus Christ, the Seed of promise to Abraham as Paul says in Galatians 3:16. If you read Galatians you will know that Paul attests to the blessing of Abraham coming upon the Gentiles who have faith like Abraham along with Israelites who have faith like Abraham. (3:6-9; 14; 17; 22; 26;29.) So, Covenant theology attests that God has always and only had one people, chosen by election, throughout history. This is NOT Replacement Theology from a biblical standpoint.
To a dispensationalist, it may SEEM like Israel is being replaced by the church. But this is because dispensationalists insist that all of ethnic Israel is true Israel, children of the promise to Abraham. But Paul says differently, as I have shown in previous posts.
From my understanding of dispensationalism is that unbelieving ethnic Israelites are always the people of God, but Scripture state many places in the OT as well, that those who do not continue in belief are cut off from His people, as Paul reiterates in Rom. 11:15. In Gal 4:28 Paul says that believers (both Israelite and Gentile) are children of the promise to Abraham, just as Isaac was.
When one who espouses that across time God has continually called those whom He elected to have faith and receive redemption through the blood sacrifice of Jesus, whether OT or NT, whether Israelite or Gentile, from every nation tribe and tongue and attest that these are His one people, the Israel of God that receive this designation by faith, not by physical birth, they are agreeing with Paul!
Part 2.
Replacement Theology.
Here's why it matters and why these particular promises is was not fulfilled in the Church.
The church was never brought out of Egypt and promised a land here on earth with the tabernacle of David being restored with this action being a spectacle for all the world to see to glorify God.
Just a few of many Examples;
1) Ezekiel 36:23-24 "And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
2) Jeremiah 16:14-15"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
3) Isaiah 48:11-12 "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Is the Church also the new Jacob?
In the book of Esther we see a clear demonic plot to annihilate the Jewish people through Haman,
In Ezekiel 38:12-19 we see a demonic force of Gog of Magog.
In Revelation 12:13-17 we see where the dragon persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
The woman here is Israel not the Church!
Throughout history Satan has tried to annihilate the Jews. Ethnic Israel!
This would destroy the promises of God and attack his name.
Today it's done with Replacement Theology.
It's getting late but I have much more to say on this.
Good night.
Part 1
I am familiar with Reformed/Covenant theology. .
I agree with some of the covenant theologist views however on their eschatology is where we part ways drastically.
Also covenant theologist has some
dispensationalism tenants in it in the way grace was administrated over the covenants.
Same Lord, Same savior!
Different economies.
One administration pointed fowards the other pointed backwards.
One foreshadowed the other.
Covenant theology holds an amillennialist view, believing the millennial kingdom is symbolic.
That's where we draw the line!
As for the accusation.
Gigi when did I say non-dispensational views of Israel and the church is from the devil?
Here's my direct quote;
Replacement theologist can be linked to paving the road for antisemitism!
This is Satan at work!
He's been trying to wipe out the Jews since the beginning.
End quote.
Gigi if you are saying those who have non-dispensational views and those who hold Replacement theology views are the same then you are agreeing you are a Replacement Theologist.
Replacement Theology definition.
Replacement theology, or supersessionism, is the belief that the Christian church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people, inheriting God's promises and covenant roles originally given to Israel due to Israel's rejection of Jesus as Messiah. This view holds that God's covenant with the Jewish people ended with their disobedience and that the Church is now the new inheritor of God's redemptive plan, often interpreting biblical promises to Israel as spiritual ones for the Church.
This makes God a liar concerning his promises to Israel.
Anytime someone say "The True Israel" That has replacement written all over it!
See part 2.
Pt. 2
Maybe some dispensationalists accuse Reformed/Covenant theology of "replacement theology" because they do not understand what Reformed/Covenant theology actually teach. They do not tach replacement theology. You can easily find that out if you check out reformed articles on this topic.
I do not know why you brought up replacement theology in your post, but I want you to be properly informed about how your use it erroneously.
Also, as you continued in your post it seemed that you think that holding a Reformed/Covenant theology viewpoint will inevitably lead to anti-semitism. This also is a fallacy. This is not to say that anti-semitism in the church hasn't been or is not now a problem, because it is, and we should speak against it. However, we truly need to correctly identify what anti-semitism is.
And believing that there is only one people of God across all time as those who believe as Abraham does is not anti-semetic.
Then to go on and intimate that those who adhere to non-dispensational views of Israel and the church is from the devil is also uncalled for on this forum.
Maybe I have misunderstood you and welcome you clarifying what you truly meant. But I think that instead of speaking insults labels and mischaracterizations of those who differ in theology than you is wrong.
I am not trying to get into a debate nor an argument with you. I consider you and friend in the Lord and am speaking to you from that point of view.
Let's keep this civil and respectful.
I realize that we differ in how we view whom God's chosen people are.
And I do not wish to discuss this aspect again here as I did explain my view in the posts I submitted earlier.
But to state my view: I believe the Scriptures teach that there always has and will be one people of god-not two.
And I believe that this people are all from Adam up to now and into eternity those who live by faith as Abraham did who saw Jesus' day and rejoiced. The people of God are all who God elected to salvation in all times. And the way anyone enters this communion is by believing God in Christ's person and work of redemption.
In the OT, it is true that the nation of Israel was formed by God to be His covenant people. Yet we read in the NT that those who are truly Israel are those who have faith in the gospel and in Jesus. the NT clearly teaches that not all who are Israel by fleshly birth are of the Israel of God and neither are they necessarily inheritors of the promises given to Abraham. Unbelief identifies these ethnic Jews as being offspring of the bond-servant Hagar and non-heirs as Ishmael was. But those who believe as Abraham believes are children of the promised one-Isaac and are heirs of the promises. so any Israelite who is justified by faith in Christ is of true Israel. Likewise, as Rom. 9-11 and Galatians clearly teach, gentiles who are justified by faith in Jesus are also of true Israel, being in-grafted into the cultivated olive tree (true Israel) and both Israelite and Gentile believers constitute the one true covenant people of God.
That said, S. Spencer, this is not "Replacement Theology". It instead correctly understands the prophecies and promises of the OT prophets that both Israel and Gentiles are of the people of God.
When dispensationalists throw out the "replacement theology" card, as you have, it is usually intended to discredit or dismiss what one who aligns with Reformed or Covenant Theology. See pt. 2
For it is clear that God gave Adam first the commandment of what was in effect goid to eat and evil to eat .
I don't hold to the prevailing opinion that it gave man ' freedom of choice' .
For where in the words " thou shalt not eat of that tree" is God giving Adam a choice? In truth God did give Adam the liberty to eat if any tree in the garden that was good to eat . Which included the tree of life.
For is it not written ( paraphrased) Man shall not live by every tree that was goid to eat but by that word that came out of His mouth as to what was good and what was evil ' and by Gods knowledge of good and evil they lived . It was only when they rejected the Word of life did they die .
It was Eve who first let by the character assignation of God that led to the rejection of Gods Word and believing the serpents words . Did not Paul warn the church not to be as deceived as Eve was?
She then " SAW that the tree was good to eat " and she reasoned thus " it wouid make her wise "
The sin was disobedience "for by one man's disobedience all die "
Adam obeyed his wife not God . It was a good thing Job did not obey his wife .
A husband shouid always listen to his wife but must always obey God .if push comes to shove .
The Lord did not obey His mother ( of his flesh) indeed at one point He denied his flesh and said " who is my mother "?
And said they who do the will of God are Hus true mother and brethren."
I cannot think that Paul did not know the scraptures far better than I do and was unaware that God gave the responsibility of all of the earth into his hands . That is beyond all dispute and aI thought I had addressed that ?
But as I pointed out Eve was not born but created from the body of Adam .
Thus Gods commands were first given to Adam who then passed them on to Eve .
Wether he added to that commandment of "not to eat of that tree " for in the day you eat ye shall surely die " the words nor " touch it" is a moot point but not beyond the bounds of possibility . God did not say do not 'touch it ' and it's never wise to add to what God said in such a specific command .
But Paul foundation for his teaching about women was not cultural ( how do you prove that?) but on the foundation which he states very clearly but which everyone ignores for it demands then a lot more thought than we wish to give the matter .Having been misused over the centuries as an excuse for putting women in a position even the Lord never did nor all of scrioture. Though it does record mans wrong attitude to women .
Eve was created from his rib or side not his feet to use her as a door mat ,not his head for her to Lord it over the man . Not his back so she must walk behind him 6' or more . But from his side to walk with him a " help meet for him" .
So I stand by what I said as to the foundation of Paul's thinking on the matter for that is beyond all doubt what it was . Understanding the issue as it is in Christ is another matter .
I used the marriage of Canaan as food for thought on the matter because of the Lords word " Woman" which it wouid be impossible to think He used it in a derogatory way as some do .
But as in 'respected' woman . But given what Rome has made of her the scriptures deny them all that that 'church ' has made if her . We see that the Lord never gave ground to her as having any authority over Him . Nor she in the church .
I am aware of Luther's harsh remarks towards the Jews. The reformers were called to a purpose, even though, like us they sinned.
Mr. Scofield was one who swindled people, even family out of money with fake schemes, abandoned his wife and daughters and never supported them monetarily. In fact, he swindled his own family and his wife's family out of money they had inherited or earned.
Mr. Darby adhered to the doctrine that the Plymouth Brethren group he belonged to was the only true church and all others were apostate. He taught that there was one way of salvation for Christians and a different way for Jews.
John Calvin advocated putting heretics to death.
I am sure that most every famous Christian leader have tales to tell of their sinful acts.
I think this is just how it is, whether Abraham lying about Sarah, Joseph pridefully parading before his brothers in his coat making sure they knew how favored he was to their father, Peter denying the Lord, all fail and fall into sin.
So, for me, I look at how their doctrines align with Scripture, because that is what is most important, especially in our conversations here.
Thanks for responding.
I haven't been able to read through your and Lbooth1955 postings thoroughly, maybe I will this weekend.
I'm not sure I have the context!
I believe you, myself, and Lbooth1955 agree that salvation is by Christ alone throughout all ages! That should have been clear.
As for Galatians 6:15-16 I'm pretty sure you have that wrong!
The context to the Galatians is Paul's defense against the Judaizers
Galatians 6:12-13.
It is not about Jesus being the promised Seed that we find in other passages of scripture.
He's following up on what he told them in the previous chapter.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing..ect ect..
Galatians 5:1-7
Then he continues on in chapter 6:15-16.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATURE.
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy,
These are those IN CHRIST!
And then he says
and upon the Israel of God.
"AND UPON" the Israel of God.
This is a separate group.
Israel is never called a new creature!
Gigi even if this did refer to the Church it still doesn't annul the future Abrahamic/Davidic Kingdom promises given which is the context of this topic.
Christ being the promised Seed benefits all ages but it's not the context or topic at hand.
Also, Christ being the promised Seed is not the same thing in meaning as the covenant promises given to Abraham and David and later confirmed to Mary by Gabriel.
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 1:32-33"
More perhaps later after I read through the thread.
Blessings.
You got it.
God bless,
RLW
I will say no more, you can judge for yourself. love u. Joh 4
Pt. 2
AS you read the remainder of Rom. 11, you will find that Paul attests to who the true Israel is, that is the one people of God. It is the olive tree (the elect people of God-true Israel) in who are branches both natural (the remnant of ethnic Israel who were of faith), ingrafted Gentiles, and also re-grafted ethnic Israelites who turn from their unbelief to Jesus for salvation) vs. 11-23.
When Paul speaks of all Israel being saved in vs.26-27 he is summing up what he had taught in the previous section, that those who believe the gospel and come to faith in Jesus are members of the olive tree (elect people of God) and Paul states that the covenant God makes with His people is one of salvation from sin, quoting is. 27:9; 59:21.
The promise given to Adam and Eve in the garden of the promised seed and His work has always been about salvation from sin. Noah knew that, Abraham knew that, David knew that, John the Baptist knew that, the apostles knew that including Paul.
Vs. 31-32 speaks of God concluding them all (all of the elect of God's people-Israelite or Gentile) unto unbelief (as the default state of all mankind) so that He might have mercy of all who comprise the Israel of God.
Gerald, I do not know really why you addressed your post to me or really what you were trying to tell me in it. All I could get from it is to beware of using one doctrine to interpret all of Scripture. Please know that I do not do this.
The Scriptures teach many doctrines and we should learn these and consider them when interpreting any portion of Scripture.
Also, the Scriptures do not teach contrary truths. So we should search Scriptures even more if it seems that Scriptural teachings contradict one another.
As to what I posted on Galatians, I also would like to refer to Paul speaking in Romans.
In Rom. 4:11-25 speaks again of Abraham and his fatherhood. Paul clearly says that he is the father of all who have faith as he has whether circumcised or uncircumcised. His faith was in God who would raise the Son from the dead, that is Jesus, (vs. 23) as Abraham was given the gospel during his lifetime and this is why he believed that Isaac could be resurrected after he sacrificed him in obedience to God. He had been shown Jesus and His life, death, and resurrection. ( Jn. 8:56-59).
in Rom. 9 Paul states that not all who are of Israel are truly Israel. Paul sees Israel as a chosen people of God apart from ethnic Israel. (see vs. 8) and He again speaks of those which are of the flesh and those which are of the promise (Isaac) as he did in Galatians. In vs. 23-26, Paul identifies both Jews and gentiles as God chosen children. And in vs. 27, Paul speaks of ethnic Israel that only a remnant will be saved, quoting both Hosea 2::23, 1:10 and Is.10:20-23.
In Romans 10:12 Paul again says that there is no difference between the Jew or Greeks (Gentiles), for Jesus is the same Lord who is rich towards (gives salvation) to all that call upon Him. The promise and blessing of Abraham is a spiritual blessing, being counted as righteous before God, and so it is with all Israel, the promise and covenant is one of salvation and a spiritual dwelling with God.
Rom. 11 speaks about God keeping a remnant from ethnic Israel, all whom He foreknew, having been chosen before creation, according to the election of grace (vs.2-5) See pt. 2
However they go far enough.
They come up short on the Eschatology of those days. They continued in the views of Augustine.
Here's an article on Martin Luther representing a well known fact!
Martin Luther developed a deep and virulent hatred toward Jews, particularly later in his life, and expressed his antisemitic views in writing.
Though his earlier work was more sympathetic, he became enraged by Jews' continued refusal to convert to Christianity and his later publications demanded harsh persecution.
Luther's shift in attitude toward Jews
Early life (pre-1540s): In his 1523 work That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew,
Luther argued that Jews were treated poorly by Christians, which was why they had not converted. He believed that if he treated them gently, they would see the light of his reformed Christianity.
Later life (post-1540): After his efforts to convert Jews largely failed,
Luther's attitude shifted to bitter hostility. This culminated in his 1543 treatise On the Jews and Their Lies, a 65,000-word polemic calling for the violent persecution of Jewish people.
End article.
Replacement theologist can be linked to paving the road for antisemitism!
This is Satan at work!
He's been trying to wipe out the Jews since the beginning.
Psalms 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Ezekiel 36:21-28.
Blessings
I will certainly be praying for you and that all goes well with the surgery and your recovery.