Bible Questions & Discussion PAGE 18

Dear Gerald

Pt. 2

Because their were so many different kingdoms, some controlled by Angles, Saxons, and Viking kings, Christianity's spread depended much on the spiritual bent of the kings. It took several more centuries before the whole of Britain was considered to be Christian, perhaps even until after the Conquest.

I think that we all can learn much from history. It helps us understand the challenges the church faced over the centuries. And we can continue to believe that Jesus is faithful to His will to build His church through these centuries. He used imperfect people, governments, and those in the visible Church to continue building His church. The Roman Empire eventually was used by our Lord to spread Christianity far and wide and it's fall (Roman Empire) to bring the Church through many high and low points marked by corruption, reform, disagreements, to bring many leaders and common people back to putting Christ at the center of faith. Believers have a lot of good and bad to sift through when learning the history of Christ's church which should humble all of us to not be too high-minded lest we should fall into error or worse.

Hello Gerald,

Christianity did come to the British Isle in the first century. It did take awhile for the church to grow large enough to have a bishop assigned to it. Ireland remained pagan until the 300's. The Roman Empire set up military encampments in what became Britain in the 1st century and remained there until the Emperor removed all of the Roman forces from Britain in the 390's. During the subsequent period Britain was left on its own and much of it reverted to paganism. The invasions of the Angles, Saxon, and Jutes conquered much of the Isle and paganism became stronger. But the Christian church in Britain remained.

Tertullian wrote in 200 A.D. that part of Britain were Christian in areas that were not under Roman rule. In 313 A.D. sources record that 3 British bishops attended the Council of Arles. But Christianity was still a minority religion. Patrick was a missionary to Ireland in the early 400's. The bishops lived in monasteries and were trained by Patrick and by the late 400's Ireland was fairly Christianized. During the same period Kentergern and Maughold worked in parts of Scotland and Manx (respectively) to bring North and West Britain to Christianity to by 550 A.D. The South and East of Britain was under the control of the Angles and Saxons and was mostly pagan at this time. It was not until the end of the 6th century that the Angles and Saxons was won over to Christianity when Pope Gregory sent monks to Kent to evangelize and support Christianity among the Anglo-Saxons.

In the 800's to 100's the Viking Invasions of Britain re-established paganism to Eastern and Northern Britain. Because pagan practices were very much a part of the lifestyle, many who converted continued to practice both Christianity and paganism.

Since Britain was not a unified nation until the conquest of England by William the Conqueror, the Isle was made up of many kingdoms, each with their own king and ruling class.

See Pt. 2

Hello GiGi

Thanks for that detailed summary of the church history. I don't know much about the Catholics. I know the church history from the side of the Eastern Orthodox church. They have some common period of history (till the 1000's) but then they diverge. GBU

Amen Giannis!

I believe prayer in those situations is key!

I've witnessed that close up being very effective.

Blessings

Thanks Spencer.

It is true that Christian virtues are often seen as weaknesses by worldly people. But in the long run they are positively influenced by us. Not everyone. There are people for whom you can never "heap coals of fire on their heads." They simply do not care whatever you do, whatever you say. All you can do is just pray for them. Only when a tragedy comes to their life they lower their pride. Then there may be a chance there. But whatever the outcome maybe we must be in the likeness of our God. GBU

Hello Gerald

The same incident according to Mark. ( Mark 10 20-21)

"20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, ..."

Didn't Jesus love him before him saying that he had done all that since he was young?

God loves everybody. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

But there is a special love for His children. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." 1 John 3:1

And even more love for those of His children who are careful to obey His commandements. "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." John 14:21

Actually it is like a father with many kids who is pleased by the one who behaves himself.

But God loves everybody.

Once we were riding with a friend and his family. And we were talking about God and salvation. Then one asked what is that God wishes more than everything? And one of the little kids said "God wants All people to be saved". We knew that it was God who talked. The thing is that God can not decide for us. The choice is in our hands.

GBU

Hello

In the parable of the prodigal son, the father saw his son returning home while his son was away. Did he happen to see him while he was far away? No, he was standing upstairs looking at the horizon hoping to see his son return. And he was doing this day after day. And time went by. And his father was still going up there looking at the horizon. And finally the time came. And when his son came to him, he couldn't keep his hands off his son. He was hugging and kissing him all the time. That's how our Father in Heaven longs to see us return home. The only thing his son had the chance to say was "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son." Nothing else. His father didn't want to hear anything else from his son. That was enough. Just tell God the Father that. The only thing He desires is our repentance. Nothing else. And the father says to the servants, "Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:." God will give you the place in His house that you were having before. He only wants repentance. Nothing else. Everything else like reading the Bible, praying, going to church come next. Repentance comes first. Nobody is good enough for Heaven. God will get us there. Just follow Him.

Thank you so much and I appreciate your words of kindness. I'll admit that for so long now I let go of Jesus... but I'm glad that He didn't let go of me. God bless.

Greeting's

John 3:5

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Blessings

The Law is little preached these days so there is little conviction of sin .

In another gospel it is what must I do to inherit eternal life ( Luke 18:18 ) but thanks for drawing attention to that account for we need all 4 gospels fora full picture . But here it is what good thing must I do . Very interesting .

There is a way of salvation and to lead people to,Christ a person has to be led along that way . It's not riches alone that was a hinderance but fir him it was his riches.

It says that " Jesus loved him" The terrible thing is that the fact that God lives you does not save yiu .

It is that love expressed in and through Jesus Christ . The great tragedy was that when he turned away sorrowful he turned his back on the love of God and with each step away from the Lord was a step away from theLight and from the truth into darkness .

The Lord did not chase after him . Some; very few get another opportunity but no man should count on it . We never hear of the man again .

"Let us then put aside every weight and the sin that so easily besets us.."

Paul was talking to people already saved ,but we can lose much by not so doing .

There is written evidence that withingb30 and 50; years of those vents in Jerusalem the gospel of Jesus Christ had not only reached the shores of Britannia but by the grace of God a church iEngland was well established and already had a reputation for learning and piety . Long before the emissary from Rome came to ' convert ' the English to its Roman ways and se5 up its seat in Canterbury .

So while all that hub hub was going on in the 'centre' of things God laid the foundations for a great work, in England .

Errata

At two places words missing so please read

in the first para

"So the just shall live refers to the divine promise and it is a land."

"So the just shall live by faith refers to the divine promise and it is a land"

and

in the last para, last line,

" Circumcision is a pledge to indicate the glory of resurrection."

"Circumcision is a pledge in the flesh to indicate the glory of resurrection and indwelling Spirit to follow"

Thank you,

Annotated Gen.12.1 "Faith"

"Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"

The Spirit is setting the pure speech between God and man so the spiritual purport of God a Spirit cannot be lost and the man shall not miss the command either since it is delivered in his Son. God commanded Noah with regards to the ark and the spirit informs us, "Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."(6.22) Similarly when God blessed Noah and his sons before they stepped out of the ark it was as promised between God and Man in the Covenant. "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."(9.1) Consequently we read, "These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood."(10.22). Faith is the third space between Heaven and the earth, and it serves as a sign. So the just shall live refers to the divine promise and it is a land. The land of the living it is called. Every believer in his Son holds a volume to which this land is what the world of the Spirit offers. " I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living."(Ps.27.13)

God is the God of the living as Jesus referred to the patriarchs, is now calling Abraham to walk with him even as Noah and Enoch before him did.

The life of Abraham can be broadly shown in three divisions. firstly he walked one full circle, 'Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.".(13.17) This is in preparation to enter into the death of his son so God establishes the covenant. " a deep sleep fell upon Abram" as with the sleep of Adam refers to the death of his Son.(15.12) The last division is his life in faith. Circumcision is a pledge to indicate the glory of resurrection.

Dear new friend,

I am glad what I posted was helpful. That was my intent.

Church history is valuable to know and to know that it did not occur in a vacuum. What was happening in the world around the growth of the church was quite influential. There were so many historical happenings that pressed upon the Church whether persecution which forced the church to go underground for a time, to rapid migration of peoples rom the Eurasian Steppe, Asia Minor, Eastern Europe, the Baltic Sea area which included Scandinavian peoples and Germanic peoples that pressed westward/Most of these peoples were pagan and the church attempted to bring them the gospel to convert these peoples.

Got to go, grandbaby is here!

Hello everyboby

In Matthew 19:16-30 the story of that rich young man who came to Jesus is described.

The young man goes to Jesus and asks Him a question "... Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

Jesus answers back saying something strange, "... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments..." It is strange because He should had led the young man to Himself, not to the Law. Why did He do that? We see the reason for that from what the young man said, "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?". The young man feels that although he had done all those since he was a kid he still feels he is lacking. Then Jesus gives him the solution and draws him to Himself. Jesus said unto him, "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: AND COME AND FOLLOW ME."

BUT, there is always a "but". The "but" is that that guy should give all his possesions to the poor first. This is the narrow gate that we must enter when we believe in Christ in order to come to the narrow path which leads to heaven. Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

There is always a narrow gate which one should pass through when coming to Christ. For that young man that was his riches. For me it is something else, for you it is something else, for him/her something else. There is always something in our lives that we must leave behind if we want to follow Jesus. It may be riches, maybe a specific way iof living, passions, ambitions, friends, relatives, maybe a career in a field that is inconsistent with our faith, anything really that could be an obstacle on our way to Heaven.

Are we willing to leave them behind?

Annotated Gen.12. Overview

From this shapter onwards we are focussing of the lives of the heirs of promise, namely Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They are heirs in his Son so we begin with the saying of Jesus, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." The Spirit gives us the deaths of all the three patriarchs:

Of Abraham,,"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people." (25.8)

Of Isaac, "And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days."(35.29) finally of Jacob,"and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people."(49.33) They were gathered unto his people which are in heaven, In this context we shall understand why God called out Abraham from his father's house. The blessing in his Son according to the Covenant (Gen.1.28) was a spiritual template, "After our image and after our likeness' and the last Adam, the Word which was with God gave the patriarchs a spiritual basis for them to arrange their lives in the flesh. This last Adam held the world of the Spirit while Jesus Christ the word become flesh held the other end. When Jesus yielded up his ghost it established their worlds and their volume in his Son. So 'Abraham was gathered to his people' referred to Jesus Christ the lord from heaven, the quickening spirit.

Faith made the world of Abraham secure so he was within the the will of God and and of the Son who is the fulfilment;" By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went./ By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:/For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." (Heb.11.8-10)

The sanctity of marriage

Having discussed in past postings the issue of divorce and remarriage and the almost uniform acceptance of such a state for professing believers when the original spouse is alive; I wished to briefly discuss the other reason the church has divorce rates at the level (or perhaps worse at times) than the world at learge. That; simply put is the lack of cherishing the value of marriage as we see in Hebrews 13:4-5

4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

A covenant is a lifelong vow and should be something strongly supported by those in the church who also have covented to be faithful to church attendance; adherance to the Word; fulfilling their part in the Great Commission; etc. Unless we can expand our minds to encompass the rest of the week which we spend in our "secular" csreers; family life and social time we compartmentalize our lives and make our Sunday and perhaps midweek worship our primary "spiritual" experience and are therefore by default rather shallow in comprehending His will for our whole life. God doesn't see things the way we do; as we see from His choice of David to be King it wasn't outward appearance that mattered but the condition of the heart. This is why smoke and mirrors (literally) seen with today's "worship leaders" is only affective for those too spiritually blinded to appreciate true worship in Spirit and truth. We don't need to be an attractive woman (not too many opera singer type singers in these groups if you get my drift) to lead praise and song. We don't need to have a cookie cutter service; always of the same length to meet the expectations of the audience. We don't have to spend time and money on our sound systems; production-etc. The Gospel comes first; then everything else.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I'm going to now focus on what should be expected within the Body of Christ. I will start with a question. Do we want others to sharpen us as "iron sharpens iron" ( Prov. 27:17)? God uses people in order to help exhort; rebuke etc. as 2 Timothy 4:2 reminds us-Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

This; my friends means within the body of believers to help with God's sanctification plan for us. The job of elders is supposed to be aiding with instruction and correct doctrine; sadly it seems many in this role from my experience seem to be invested in secluded prayers with the Pastor; or business roles and rather estranged from the rest of the congregation. We shouldn't wait; of course as some do for some instruction to us personally from the Pastor who normally preaches if we see another in need of growth or maturity. This is why discussion of the Word (and by no means the only reason for it) to be a prime event in our church fellowship. That; sadly is NOT what I have heard in my church lately amongst other issues. It has become time to move on; even though I have some other events I am attending other than the Sunday service that I'm still involved with for the time being.

I have also learned that once a congregation gets to a certain point with apathy they simply won't do anything to get out of a lukewarm state. Any pleading with admonitions from scripture either brings the usual "live by grace"; or "log in your eye" response and the Word is either dismissed or ignored. A healthy rebuke to an issue even disagreement is better than just accepting the status quo of whatever is being taught or accepted. I hope no one else goes through this; but it seems a candlestick going out isn't an issue

Why not the Kingdom now?

Luke 17:20-23: 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

These verses not only indicate the hidden Kingdom of God as seen with the presence of the Spirit in each true Christian believer but also that we shouldn't go looking for the Messiah in any man made invention. Anything other than Christ in His literal physical return; when He destroys His enemies in Armageddon is a false Christ.

The principal error other than looking for Christ in all the wrong places is the idea that somehow a list of morals or rules; which are only guides for the ungodly and tutors for us to come to Christ ( Gal. 3:24). To find people making righteous laws; following through with correct interpretation certainly is something we should seek out; but expecting somehow to "win over" the whole system that is run by the prince of the power of the air ( Eph. 2:2) is folly. Again; Satan as insanely cunning as he is isn't about to give up the kingdoms of this world to us peons; he offered it to Christ and indeed will give it to the Antichrist Beast in the day and hour God has appointed for such. As individuals; we can certainly be in various careers which are part of the culture and perhaps can affect the outcome to some extent of content of movies; for example. The same issue of expected conformity and "revival" in the outside is also a problem with those included in any movements that aren't promoting the Gospel only. Inevitably we find suitable members from all religions and lifestyles to increase numbers (i.e. money/power).

Thank you and God bless you! I have been reading many of these threads and I especially enjoy your very informative ones. I have been struggling with my faith. I guess as preacher "Bruce" from the first Left Behind movie said: "Knowing and believing are two different things." I know the Bible well, but I can't put my finger on these recurring doubts.

I need prayers before I lose my way!

I love studying history and religion, especially Christianity. I enjoyed your thread and actually learned a couple of things. God bless you and yours!

Annotated Gen.11.27-32

v.27 "Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot"

.Unlike in the case of Noah here the Spirit is giving more emphasis to the sons and wives of Abraham and his two brothers"By setting Jacob in his generation in context of the house of Laban the Spirit wants us know the world framed by the word of God was i moving with Jacob while the house of Laban represented the ungodly nations. Of course Laban had family gods and the whole paraphrenalia of the imposter churches. We know next to nothing of the wive of Noah or of the wives of the sons of Noah. In the ensuing narrative Sarah holds her own in the world of patriarchs. Her age is given as with Abraham. (Gen,23.1)

Another peculiar feature is to distinguish the death of the heirs of promise. Their death is made distinct by this expression they were gathered unto his people."and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people."(49.33) In the case of Abraham,"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people."(25.8) They gave up the Chost even as Christ did."Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."*Mt.27.50) God is the God of the living so where are they? "and to the spirits of just men made perfect,/ And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant."(Heb.12.23-24) Life in faith is to live in the presence of God whether alive or dead according to the flesh.

32" And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years: and Terah died in Haran."

From the historical context the builders of the tower were as one in creating wealth and we shall across consequences of their greed. There were series of famines that drove mass migrations and Abraham's father died during one such.

The Will of God .

When God spoke to Adam and said " Of all the trees in the garden yiu may freely eat ( which included the tree of life) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat for in the day yiu eat if it yiu shall surely die "

God Amighty revealed His eternal will to man that he shouid luve and not die .

When by the grace of God we are BORN again we do but enter that eternal will of Gods preordained from before the foundations of the world .

When Adam disobeyed God and effectively obeyed Eve that was not the will of God .

When Noah entered the ark and all those designated animals with him and his family . It is written that "God closed the door"

That too was an at of His will and when God closes a door no one can open itv.

God chose Abraham an acy of His will . " I will have mercy upon thosec.."

The land of Canaan thec" promised land " was not given to the children of Isreal for their righteousness but becausevifvthe exceeding wickedness of its inhabitants .

It was given to them by promise an act of will by God but not as men think it .

When the lever said " If thou will you can make me clean" Jesus replied " I will ,be thou clean".

Jesus saud " I came not to,do my will but thecwill of Hthst sent me"

In Gethsemane he prayed " with tears and strong crying " not to avoid Gods will but to ensurecHevfilfilled itv. " Nevetyhe less not my will but thine be done . The will of the Man coukd not endure what had to be endured . But thecwill of the father ensured that it would. I" It is God that worketh within us both tomdo and to will of His good p,eadurec"

We are BORN again " not by thecwill of man ,nor thecwill of the flesh nor of blood but of God"

In our prayers the primary request is The Kingdom come " Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven ".

" He worketh all things by the council of His own will ".

By an act of will " in the night thatvHe was betrayed He took bread and break it.."

If you hold that the KJV is anything then I suggest you read again what it says . ALL(?) other versions have out it " ON His throne . They are wrong to have done so . For reasons I have put in previous post .

The word " ON" is as far removed from the Word " IN" is as far as you can get . Yet thosecwhomboastbin thrur " better understanding" clearly don't understand English .

The only one who can sit ON the Lords throne is the Lord Himself . The absurd notion that I or any other can do so is absurd .

The only one who can sit ON the Fathers throne is the Father Himself . The notion that the Son can is theologically wrong on every level .

A man can be IN Christ as you pointed out and thus can be IN His throne therefore is possible .

But as I am not The Son ,I cannot be on His throne .

It is not nit picking . It is recognising blasphemy when you see it .

And a profound mistranslation of the scriptures .

You have made a good start . Keep on keeping on . "For you shall k kw when you follow on to know".

No one is fit fir heaven in of and by themselves . But first we must be reconciled to God .

It is written ( for our benefit) " That if we draw close to God ,God will draw close to us"

If God is omnipresent that is everywhere all at the same time now . How do we draw near to Him?

Let me give you an apology. Have you ever been in a serious disagreement with your father and he was right and you were wrong? If you have been fortunate not to ,I sure you will understand the principle . While father insists you honour the principle he is espousing and you are in rebellion against him though you are living in the same house you are to all intents and purposes a million miles apart . You don't want to speak to him nor be in the same room . But as soon as you " consider yir ways" and strait thinking along the right lines you are beginning to draw near to your father and if you continue sooner or later you will be reconciled to him. The account of the" prodigal son" is the classic case given for our encouragement .

Turning back to the Bible and thinking about what it says is a good start . The prodigal son was in " a far country" so it took a while but he got to his fathers embrace ." When we pray we must believe that God is and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"

Don't be satisfied till you are nor diverted by those who won't

Hello , while God is quite capable of preserving His own Word that does not mean Satan still does not have his own 'versions' .Of it . He simply added ' N O T' to it with Eve and in doing so changed the truth " ye shall surely die" into a lie " ye shall not surely die" When someone rejects the truth they will belueve the lie and when the lie is believed they become blind to the truth .

Thus it is written " She SAW that the tree was good to eat" Gods perception was that was evil to eat .

And she reasoned thus " It would make her wise. " Gods reason was that it wouid bring them death .

Since that hour man's perception and reasoning of God and His Word has been false .

But when God called them both out of their darkness ( hiding place) and into His presence and true light He from who's eyes nothing is hid saw that what was they thought coveted their nakedness did not and in His great mercy and Love gave them a covering that did but a promise also that would restore them into a right relationship with Him .

Abel by faith followed Gods pattern . Cain refused to do so .

To be truly BORN again God "restores sight to the blind" but after that our minds and reasoning has to be renewed " till we all come" to the same understanding and judgement .

The strange thing is that so many think that they can use their carnal minds to understand the scriptures. Meaning a purely intellectual approach to the study of the scriptures with the false hope that if they learn greek or Hebrew that is then possible . Saul of Tarsus knew them both and who's knowledge of the scriptures was vast but did he understand them? NO! Not untill he was converted but then spent three years in Arabia getting his head knowledge sorted out and put in order with the help of the Lord . The Pharisees had Hebrew as their mother tongue but did they understand what was written? NO!

The Holy Spirit was needed to inspire men to write! He is needed in the same measure to understand what is written.

I direct you attention to the book of revelation and in particular to the first (3?) chapters.

The first church left it's first love . Which opened the door to the Nicolaitins that is the separation of the ' ministers' over the congregation ( lording over them) . Which in turn led to Jezebel and all her false doctrines which in turn led to the baalamites .

To all but one the message was to repent and if they did given a promise if they overcame .

Luther initially sought to reform the Roman church but in the end found she could not or rather would not and left .

He held to the " scriptures alone " as the only foundation for real faith . Rome then as now holds thst her 'traditions' carry more weight . Her heretical doctrines she held then ( and still does ) were proved false by sound biblical argument to be so and by her murderous reaction to sny and to all who dared chalkenged her usurped authority and power . She has since added to them and now counts herself infallible in them . How then can she reform?

The Protestant churches also need to repent but at least she does not think she is in infallible and there is a possibility of reform .

But Rome is endeavouring to insinuate herself again as a true Christian church and the final authority . She has neither repented of her errors or her down right lies and her idolatry is beyond question .

Those men of God mentioned by others identified her as thec"whore of Babylon " the scarlet woman riding on the beast . There is much to commend that appraisal for she is indeed riding on the beast of the so called Eu.

The new incumbent from what I have heard him speaking is perhaps the worst and many are going to be deceived by him .

But each man must be persuaded in their minds but let me warn that unity at the expense of truth is high treason to heaven .

The King of England has been most foolish while Rome has been most cunning .

She plays the long game and is well experienced in the ways of the world .

Gerald,

I will stop here with this history of the Church up through the Reformation. As can be seen, the Church was faced with constant and ongoing difficulties with persecutions, political changes due to invasions which brought in pagans, Arians, and many regime changes in what was the extensive areas that were initially under the Roman Empire. It faced corruption, political influence and interference, great power across Europe, and the entrenchment within the Church with the Papacy strengthened, the reach of the Church into all areas of the Holy Roman Empire both politically, religiously, and in regards to controlling many personal decisions and relationships among the laity. It appears that at some point the Church of Rome made critical errors in terms of divinely ordained focus, purpose, and guidance. They departed from having a first love of Jesus and His Kingdom and embraced the love of power, earthly political kingdoms and rule, and love for corruption, moral compromise, and grifting the flock to enrich the Church beyond anything humble.

This is a sad history. But even so, there are volumes of the accounts of lives of godly believers over this time who remained true to our Lord while within the RCC and also those who sought to remove themselves from it and/or seek reform.

From the 1500's up to now, there have been many things that have aided the spread of Protestantism. One being the invention of the printing press just prior to 1500's so that the Bible could be mass produced. The translating of Scripture into common languages of different peoples. The increase of literacy among many countries, and economic prosperity that made it possible for common people to purchase their own Bible and which opened up the financial ability for many believers to become missionaries in almost all of the peoples of the world because common people were no longer simply existing on subsistence farming with the industrial revolution that brought in regular paychecks.

Gerald,

Pt, 2

It was during this time that the College of Cardinals was formed and the Pope was then designated by the vote of the College of Cardinals which provided more liberty from the interference of political entities.

It was in 1054 when the Catholic Church of the East divided from the Catholic church of the West-the Great Schism. Pope Leo IX, Gregory VII, Nicholas II headed up such reforms. After the Schism Pope Urban II (1088-1099) began the Crusades intended to take the Holy Land from the Muslim invasion/occupation.

Into the 12th century the Papacy became spiritual center of the Catholic Church evolving into a great bureaucratic and administrative center, becoming the highest court of appeals exerting vast jurisdiction across the medieval Church in the continent and in the British Isles. It was under Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) that orders of monks were begun with the rise of monasteries. At this time many Sects arose and separated from the Catholic Church. These sects were severely persecuted in an attempt to eradicate them. There were many killed by the Church.

Papal authority grew in the following centuries, but in Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) got in a conflict with King Philip IV of France which resulted in the collapse of the medieval papacy. There was much corruption in the Church, yet Pope Clement VI (1342-1242) protected the Jews who were being blamed for the Black Death.

By this time Europe was changing into various nations with feudalism on its way out. The universal reach and authority of the Church of Rome and Papacy was greatly challenged.

From thence, came the Renaissance and soon the Reformation (1303-1565) of which The Roman Church launched a Counter-Reformation here the Catholic Church did attempt to purge itself of abuses.

The leaders of Protestant Church Reform of the 1500's and 1600's opened up Christianity to the populace and loosened the grip of the now highly institutional, dogmatic, and unyielding of the RCC.