GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 4 years ago
Precious brother Chris, I appreciate your Great discussion with me. I have posted for several years, and you are The Very First to consider/discuss these things. The rest have just written me off as confused or a heretic (denying Acts 2:38). So, in my understanding of (NOT denying) it:
I believe Paul "did baptize some" during God's Transition from Law (with water) to HIS PURE GRACE (Without water!). Most think that the great commission to the Twelve apostles of Israel, is 'exactly the same' as the commission to Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles. This does not make sense since CHRIST told the Twelve THEY "WERE SENT"
to baptize, while CHRIST told Paul he "WAS NOT SENT to baptize." {the same thing?}
I cannot reconcile that for today, because God Gave Paul A 'Different' Program, The Revelation Of The MYSTERY, With The Gospel Of GRACE, And the "commission of Reconciliation" Because of CHRIST's Finished Work on The Cross!
Thus, I believe This "Hid In God" Revelation ( Ephesians 3:9) Must Be:
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Many 'assume' The Gospel Of GRACE was Immediately preached after the cross, but
closer Prayerful/Careful examination reveals:
1) LAW was preached, obeyed, and taught to "thousand of Jewish believers"
( Matthew 28:19-20) Notice: Christ Specifically Said "teaching them TO OBSERVE ALL things I HAVE COMMANDED you" - one of them was Matthew 23:1-3, Correct?
2) Water baptized Jewish believers OBEYED ALL CHRIST's Commands, SOLD EVERYTHING, And were "zealous of The LAW," even as late as Acts 21:20!
3) IF the great commission IS FOR US today, then I see NO ONE "obeying it as these were!"
Thus, Chris, I just cannot reconcile LAW "being Exactly THE SAME as" GRACE ( Romans 11:6)
More 'available' on church birthday, and The ONE Baptism {a 'verse for annulment of water'?} "study" of today, IF you wish... Thanks Again, and Be Well, Precious brother!
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an EVANGELIST, make full proof of thy ministry.
John 9:4
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
John 5:17
But Jesus answered them, My Father works, and I work.
Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Acts 21:8
...and we entered into the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
A "publisher of glad tidings;" a missionary preacher of the" "gospel ( Eph. 4:11). This title is applied to Philip ( Acts 21:8)," who appears to have gone from city to city preaching the word "(8:4, 40). Judging from the case of Philip, evangelists had" "neither the authority of an apostle, nor the gift of prophecy," nor the responsibility of pastoral supervision over a portion of "the flock. They were itinerant preachers, having it as their" special function to carry the gospel to places where it was previously unknown. The writers of the four Gospels are known as the Evangelists.
Isaiah 52:7
How beautiful upon the mountains are the FEET of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; see Rom. 10:15
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and BE READY always to GIVE AN ANSWER to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is IN YOU...
John Chapter 15
18 If the world hate you, ye know it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
20 ...If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Matthew 9:37
Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
Hi ED. I believe that this urge & urgency for Paul to go to Jerusalem began a long while ago. We read about his desire to be in Jerusalem, first in Acts 18:21. Though it seems that he didn't make it, as Acts 19:10 shows that he got caught up in ministry in Ephesus for over two years. But still he wanted to get to Jerusalem ( Acts 19:21) & then to visit Rome.
And then in Acts 20:16, Paul wanted to bypass Asia in his travels, so as to get to Jerusalem for Pentecost. But Paul knew beforehand what lay ahead of him there: Acts 20:22-25. And then we get to Acts 21:4 & then to Acts 21:10-12. So Paul already knew that something might happen at Jerusalem, yet he was "bound in the spirit" to go there, that "bounds & afflictions" were his lot wherever he went. So then in verse 4, could this be a further Word from the Spirit that sufferings lay before him at Jerusalem, even as Agabus had also declared? That this wasn't a direct command from God not to go but another message of warning of what lay ahead for him if he should go? Paul knew that he was close to "finishing his course" & felt the need to complete the ministry in Jerusalem. If the Lord wanted anything different for him, it would be certain that obstructions would have been placed before him or he would have received God's Word directly about his disobedience.
So, even without a full certainty, we should be assured that Paul was led of the Spirit & all that befell him throughout his ministry was not of his doing, but in line with the Plan & Purposes of God to reach those in Israel, Asia Minor & Greece. And of course, Paul eventually was taken prisoner to Rome - so he got to 'visit' that city after all & "received all that came unto him", albeit as a prisoner.
Do you think Paul was in the will of God when he went to Jerusalem, after he was told by Disciples in the Spirit "Don't go to Jerusalem " Acts 21:4,11 and Agabus the prophet "Thus saith the Holy Ghost...Jews at Jerusalem bind the man......" v.14 " And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased saying, The will of he Lord be done."?
Acts 21:10, 1 Corinthians 14:37, Titus 1:2, Ephesians 4:11, and 1 Corinthians 12:29. May you be blessed in Christ Jesus our Almighty Lord and Father and Saviour.
It is the only pain when facing death. The pain that loved ones suffer in your leaving. This is the sorrow that breaks the heart. They do not know. They have not seen. They are still to taste and see that the Lord is Good. Our Lord comes like a the in the night....NOW! We are being entered into His Kingdom at His good pleasure. There is nothing too hard for our God. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It is unbelief that causes us to err. Faith cometh by hearing...may we have ears that hear
Judy May, we don't know exactly what ministry you are referring to. Can you specify?
As for the rest of these comments, I will take each of D.J.'s answers in stride as I can see this person is upset and making this comment thread a spectacle. Though I do believe my first comment should suffice, (especially if the references were checked) perhaps some of the words I used need to be defined for a better understanding. Reading Paul's letters to Timothy, Titus, the Corinthians, and Ephesians; Peter's epistle, and Proverbs and you will get a good idea of the New Testament church's views on female leadership.
D.J. do you know what God has in store for Judy May? No, as she has yet to give any information concerning the specific ministry. Hence the reason why I am offering the basic information to make a decision. Ministry= service or aid. Is not specific to one particular "job."
Am I confident in the understanding God has given of the word? Yes. Am I judging Judy May? No. Jude= distinguish truth from falsehood.
Nothing I said was a judgment, as you can clearly see.
Deborah, who was set in her office (Judge) because "all the men did what was right in their own eyes" was put in that position because no other man in the land was capable. Furthermore, Jews and Christians are dealt with differently. This concept, for lack of space, can be summed up with, God's methods of dealing with His people change in the dispensations. More on that another time.
Today prophesy= to speak. Yes one who prophesies can teach. As said before the Bible has restrictions on whom a woman may have dominion over when teaching: doctrine, 1 Tim. 2:12; authority in church, Titus 1:5-9; 1 Tim 3:1-7. It is a shame for woman to be a PREACHER in church, 1 Cor 14:35. A "prophet[ess]" (seer) is an OT/Jewish concept.
Your cherry picked verses:
Acts 2:17, end time prophecy. Acts 21:8-9, good for them. Luke 2:36, read the verse and above sentence. 1 Cor 11:5 read the epistles and you'll understand.
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 21:8-9
And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
The messianic Jews knows that the real "Jesus" whose Hebrew name is Yahawashi, is a black man. Else, HOW could He be hid IN EGYPT, form King Herod? Christ was dark skinned, ( Revelation 1,) Moses and Paul were BOTH mistaken for Egyptians..and both of them were not( Acts 21:28-41)..they were calling Jews "Niger" in the Bible. ( Acts 13:1).
The conclusion to the matter is this, EVERY nation of people, yes, including the Amalekites living in Israel today, have had The Most High's Chosen ppl, as slaves ..in Captivity all over the world..Egypt, Persia, Rome, Babylon, USA, the Caribbean, etc. So, What a man sow, that shall he ALSO reap. Revelation 13:10 and Isaiah 14 sums up what goin to happen soon
Dear Rod, it was in the book of Acts. Paul was warned multiple times notto go back to Jerusalem, but instead to go to Rome, but he disobeyed. Acts 20:22-23, again in Acts 21:10-12. Paul ended up losing two years of his ministry because of this, as shown in Acts 24:27, when he could have been out preaching, he was locked up. But the Lord still got Paul to Rome anyway, in the end, Acts 27:23-24.
In the New Testament Church the Apostle Paul placed a great deal of emphasis on the gift of Prophecy. In Acts 21:9 a man named Philip had four daughters who each had the Gift of Prophecy. in 1 Corinthians 14:4-5 Paul writes that Prophecy is the Greater Gift because it edifies the Church.
Marlo: Not Sure what You're Saying. Jews Today Don't Believe in Jesus as The Savior. They're Still Waiting for Elijah to Show-Up. We Know that was John The Baptist. All that have Been Circumcised in Their Heart are Now Jews( Romans 2:28- 29) I Think that's what You're Saying.
Also note, these were believing Jews who were zealous for the Law. The body of Christ has always been made up of both the natural and spiritual seed even unto our present day. One cannot call themselves a Jew and not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is who and what the Church started with on the day of Pentecost.
Awesome scriptures that highlight the disagreements coming from the Jews of Asia not fully understanding the ministry laid upon the Apostle Paul. The law of circumcision was a perpetual covenant laid upon the children of Israel. Paul's teaching on circumcision was not to do away the mandate for the Jews, but to show it was not a burden to be placed upon the Gentiles to receive the faith of Jesus
Verses 23,24~Paul was here willing to go a long way so as not to stumble the Jews. We want to do all we can not to become a cause for stumbling others.
In every letter of Paul, save Galatians, he addresses the saints as 'saints'. In fact, neither word, 'disciple' or 'disciples' ever occurs in the Bible again, after Acts 21:16.
It is my belief that our emphasis on making disciples, instead of making saints, has seriously limited the church. God doesn't need disciples today, He needs saints, and it is our task to help the Holy Spirit produce them.
Paul was a dark skinned Jew from the tribe of Benjamin... Acts 21:
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
Evangelist Robinson - when you say "because Jesus Christ had not died yet and sent back the Holy Ghost", please reconsider! Remember - Saul had been converted on his way to Damascus by Jesus Christ who was already resurrected after being crucified. Also, the day of Pentacost had already occurred which means the Holy Ghost had be sent to the apostiles.
Evangelist Chatauna Robinson on Acts 21 - 11 years ago
Hello Christan obinna nwator The reason they are still talking about the Law because the Law was still in place. Jesus came and fulfilled the Law, John 15 25. Grace had not started yet, because Jesus Christ had not died yet and sent back the Holy Ghost. The Bible is broken up into 7 dispensations. Jesus Christ was born during the Dispensation of the Law. This is the 5th Dispensation. It ended with the crucifixion of Christ, Romans 10 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth . Then the 6th starts with the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. This dispensation in which we are in now is called the Grace Age and will end with the rapture. Then the 7th dispensation will start with the tribulation period. So the grace age had not been implemented yet.
Christan obinna nwator on Acts 21:20 - 11 years ago
It amazes me that a disciple like James encouraged them about the knowing fully well that no man could fullfil the law and that 's why Christ came to free us from the burden of the law,yet James and co is advocating it,maybe he does not yet understood that grace superceeds the law
After Jesus had departed, the disciples scattered through the different parts of Israel and of the world, and the truth, hated of Satan, was persecuted, as it always is, by falsehood. For certain evil men, pretending to be disciples, preached that Jesus died and rose not again. Others preached that he really died, but rose again. Others preached, and yet preach, that Jesus is the Son of God, among whom is Paul deceived. But we as much as I have written we preach to those that fear God, that they may be saved in the last day of God 's Judgment. Amen. Barnabas 222
Jesus knew by the Spirit what was in store for His future, and he made a hard choice,while in the garden, to accept the cup willingly. Paul's Spirit filled friends were also accurately receiving insight into what was ahead for Paul; Paul had already made the choice to go through with what the Spirit had made evident to all was ahead for Paul if he continued down this road; Just like Jesus, his role model, Paul willingly accepted this assignment in his life; Paul was good with it; The other disciples were having a hard time, emotionally, accepting it and did not want to see Paul go through this.
My opinion is we as Christians we must always pray for each other as the Holy Spirit leads and act on His instruction for each othe and the Church as a whole. Also we need to support God's plan for each other even if the cost is our lives. The good thing is absent from the body present with the Lord Jesus. Pless you all in Jesus Name. Jacinth.
Verses 12-14 have a heading spiritual immaturity in the New King James. The bible is clearly saying when we are saved and reborn, we have a lot to learn from the oracles of God also known as the torah or the Old Testament. So, anyone thinking that the new covenant did away with the 10 commandments needs to read Acts 21:24, John 10:15, 2 Timothy 3:15-16, 2 Peter 1:20, Mark 2:28, Mathew 7:21-23, Mark 7:6-9. At the time of the oracles or scriptures mentions, there was no New Testament. The only law nailed to the cross is Sacrificial and Ceremonial. The Moral Law (10 commandments) were written in stone because they are forever. John 14:10 says if ye love me keep my commandments. So why would he make them void after saying this? Would Jesus really say it's ok to have false gods? Kill, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness? That what doing away the OLD LAW means. The new covenant is no animal sacrifice or circumcision and other ceremonial law and tempering the moral laws and scriptural doctrine with love and compassion. Something the Pharisees lacked. That’s why he called their teaching bad leaven, or leaven to be avoided.
I believe Paul "did baptize some" during God's Transition from Law (with water) to HIS PURE GRACE (Without water!). Most think that the great commission to the Twelve apostles of Israel, is 'exactly the same' as the commission to Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles. This does not make sense since CHRIST told the Twelve THEY "WERE SENT"
to baptize, while CHRIST told Paul he "WAS NOT SENT to baptize." {the same thing?}
I cannot reconcile that for today, because God Gave Paul A 'Different' Program, The Revelation Of The MYSTERY, With The Gospel Of GRACE, And the "commission of Reconciliation" Because of CHRIST's Finished Work on The Cross!
( Romans 16:25) ( Colossians 1:20) ( 2 Corinthians 5:17-21) + ( 2 Corinthians 6:2)
Thus, I believe This "Hid In God" Revelation ( Ephesians 3:9) Must Be:
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Many 'assume' The Gospel Of GRACE was Immediately preached after the cross, but
closer Prayerful/Careful examination reveals:
1) LAW was preached, obeyed, and taught to "thousand of Jewish believers"
( Matthew 28:19-20) Notice: Christ Specifically Said "teaching them TO OBSERVE ALL things I HAVE COMMANDED you" - one of them was Matthew 23:1-3, Correct?
2) Water baptized Jewish believers OBEYED ALL CHRIST's Commands, SOLD EVERYTHING, And were "zealous of The LAW," even as late as Acts 21:20!
3) IF the great commission IS FOR US today, then I see NO ONE "obeying it as these were!"
Thus, Chris, I just cannot reconcile LAW "being Exactly THE SAME as" GRACE ( Romans 11:6)
More 'available' on church birthday, and The ONE Baptism {a 'verse for annulment of water'?} "study" of today, IF you wish... Thanks Again, and Be Well, Precious brother!
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an EVANGELIST, make full proof of thy ministry.
John 9:4
I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
John 5:17
But Jesus answered them, My Father works, and I work.
Mark 6:5
And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Acts 21:8
...and we entered into the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
A "publisher of glad tidings;" a missionary preacher of the" "gospel ( Eph. 4:11). This title is applied to Philip ( Acts 21:8)," who appears to have gone from city to city preaching the word "(8:4, 40). Judging from the case of Philip, evangelists had" "neither the authority of an apostle, nor the gift of prophecy," nor the responsibility of pastoral supervision over a portion of "the flock. They were itinerant preachers, having it as their" special function to carry the gospel to places where it was previously unknown. The writers of the four Gospels are known as the Evangelists.
Isaiah 52:7
How beautiful upon the mountains are the FEET of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; see Rom. 10:15
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and BE READY always to GIVE AN ANSWER to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is IN YOU...
John Chapter 15
18 If the world hate you, ye know it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
20 ...If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Matthew 9:37
Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
And then in Acts 20:16, Paul wanted to bypass Asia in his travels, so as to get to Jerusalem for Pentecost. But Paul knew beforehand what lay ahead of him there: Acts 20:22-25. And then we get to Acts 21:4 & then to Acts 21:10-12. So Paul already knew that something might happen at Jerusalem, yet he was "bound in the spirit" to go there, that "bounds & afflictions" were his lot wherever he went. So then in verse 4, could this be a further Word from the Spirit that sufferings lay before him at Jerusalem, even as Agabus had also declared? That this wasn't a direct command from God not to go but another message of warning of what lay ahead for him if he should go? Paul knew that he was close to "finishing his course" & felt the need to complete the ministry in Jerusalem. If the Lord wanted anything different for him, it would be certain that obstructions would have been placed before him or he would have received God's Word directly about his disobedience.
So, even without a full certainty, we should be assured that Paul was led of the Spirit & all that befell him throughout his ministry was not of his doing, but in line with the Plan & Purposes of God to reach those in Israel, Asia Minor & Greece. And of course, Paul eventually was taken prisoner to Rome - so he got to 'visit' that city after all & "received all that came unto him", albeit as a prisoner.
As for the rest of these comments, I will take each of D.J.'s answers in stride as I can see this person is upset and making this comment thread a spectacle. Though I do believe my first comment should suffice, (especially if the references were checked) perhaps some of the words I used need to be defined for a better understanding. Reading Paul's letters to Timothy, Titus, the Corinthians, and Ephesians; Peter's epistle, and Proverbs and you will get a good idea of the New Testament church's views on female leadership.
D.J. do you know what God has in store for Judy May? No, as she has yet to give any information concerning the specific ministry. Hence the reason why I am offering the basic information to make a decision. Ministry= service or aid. Is not specific to one particular "job."
Am I confident in the understanding God has given of the word? Yes. Am I judging Judy May? No. Jude= distinguish truth from falsehood.
Nothing I said was a judgment, as you can clearly see.
Deborah, who was set in her office (Judge) because "all the men did what was right in their own eyes" was put in that position because no other man in the land was capable. Furthermore, Jews and Christians are dealt with differently. This concept, for lack of space, can be summed up with, God's methods of dealing with His people change in the dispensations. More on that another time.
Today prophesy= to speak. Yes one who prophesies can teach. As said before the Bible has restrictions on whom a woman may have dominion over when teaching: doctrine, 1 Tim. 2:12; authority in church, Titus 1:5-9; 1 Tim 3:1-7. It is a shame for woman to be a PREACHER in church, 1 Cor 14:35. A "prophet[ess]" (seer) is an OT/Jewish concept.
Your cherry picked verses:
Acts 2:17, end time prophecy. Acts 21:8-9, good for them. Luke 2:36, read the verse and above sentence. 1 Cor 11:5 read the epistles and you'll understand.
Do you know what God has in store for Judy May?
Are you telling Judy May to keep silent concerning the word of God and not offer help or understanding to those that are confused or have never heard?
Are you really that confident in your understanding of the word of God to be the judge of Judy?
Why would it matter that Deborah was a Jew?
Does a prophet not teach?
Therefore, does a prophetess not have the same ability to teach?
If a woman does not have a husband and lives alone, who is the head of her household?
If you are only speaking "expressly of Christian matters," then what do you do with Acts 2:17 or Acts 21:8-9?
How do you explain Luke 2:36 or 1 Corinthians 11:5?
Do "sons AND daughters" not prophesy in the end times?
Do what God has called you to do.
Do not worry about what man thinks.
Follow God's example.
Judges 4:4
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 21:8-9
And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
The conclusion to the matter is this, EVERY nation of people, yes, including the Amalekites living in Israel today, have had The Most High's Chosen ppl, as slaves ..in Captivity all over the world..Egypt, Persia, Rome, Babylon, USA, the Caribbean, etc. So, What a man sow, that shall he ALSO reap. Revelation 13:10 and Isaiah 14 sums up what goin to happen soon
It is my belief that our emphasis on making disciples, instead of making saints, has seriously limited the church. God doesn't need disciples today, He needs saints, and it is our task to help the Holy Spirit produce them.
Acts 21:
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.