Discuss Colossians 2 Page 12

Part 3.

Note: This discussion is open for improvement as I am no scholar.

Just because one is dogmatic about a view, it does not make him right.

Just rightly trying to divide the word.

Mathew 5:13-18.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Part of the law was the ceremonial law and Jesus was the sacrifice for the sins of the world,

But he had to keep the law to be declared that perfect lamb that take away the sins of the world.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal. 3:13.

By this he was able to make over to us "his righteousness".

Colossians 2:13-19.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

""( And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.)""

So why the law?

see part 4.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

You CANNOT cancel out these scriptures with Exodus 20:3

Nor the New Commandments that Jesus delivered to us.

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (us), even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Father Purposes

Jesus speaks the Word

The Holy Spirit (action) accomplishes it

If you are born again, the Holy Spirit seals you; He is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. He indwells you. Comforts you. He is your Teacher. He anoints you to understand scripture. He is your Helper. He is gentle, and kind. He reveals Jesus to you.

Hello Dan,

The question, though, begs to be answered. Why did the Apostles never write to the Church to obey the Sabbath. I don't find the 10 commandments in the letters from Romans to Revelation. They speak only about the commandments - which refers to the commandments of the New Testament. Sabbath keepers always turn to the Old Testament books such as Exodus to say that we must keep the Sabbath. Why don't they quote from the instruction letters sent to the Church - Romans to Revelation?

I would answer, because the Apostles never instructed the Church to do so. In fact, Paul says the complete opposite.

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:"

I, personally, will follow Paul's advice - and let no man judge me.

I respect your thoughts, though, and I will agree to disagree and move on.

Good day, Dan.

Hello Dan,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my 2 questions.

1) You mention that the commandment at Leviticus 12:3 was a "suggestion". When the Law was give to Israel, they made a covenant between themselves and God. Please read Exodus 34:3-8. Notice specifically

Exodus 24:3 "And Moses came and told the people ALL THE WORDS of the LORD, and ALL THE JUDGMENTS: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, ALL THE WORDS which the LORD hath said will we do."

That does not sound like a "suggestion" but a command - an order. Jewish people have thus very meticulously made certain to circumcise their children. Moses was almost killed by the LORD because he had not circumcised his son. Please read Exodus 4:24-26. That seems to me that the LORD takes circumcision very, very seriously. In fact, in the first century, even believing Jews believed that a believer in the Messiah must be circumcised to be saved.

Acts 15:1 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YE BE CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses, YE CANNOT BE SAVED."

2) You mention that the first century Church followed the 10 commandments.

I do agree that they did follow 9 of those commandments. They are re-iterated in the New Testament or Covenant set up by Jesus through his blood mentioned at Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Luke 22:20. However, nowhere do the Apostles every tell the Church, in clear words, "remember to keep the sabbath". Could you provide me 1 verse where an apostle clearly says to keep the sabbath - that actual word "sabbath" being used? In fact, Paul says the opposite at Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 4:10.

3) Now to answer your question. The apostles did not ever say that they obeyed the "10" commandments. They said that they obeyed the commandments. Those would be the commandments of the New Testament given by Jesus Christ through his Apostles via the letters of Romans to Revelation.

I welcome your thoughts again.

Good day to you, Dan.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (us), even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Father purposes

Jesus speaks the Word

The Holy Spirit (action) accomplishes it

If you are born again, the Holy Spirit seals you; He is the Spirit of Jesus Christ. He indwells you. Comforts you. He is your Teacher. He anoints you to understand scripture. He is your Helper. He is gentle, and kind. He reveals Jesus to you.

Why would you not fully cling to Him? Study the Word. Ask questions. Sit quietly in His presence until He Reveals the Word to you. Why do you not sing praises to God, through Him?

Drink the milk of His Word, and seek the Meat of the Word. Taste and see the Goodness of the Lord.

Try to comprehend what is right in front of you. Pursue Him with all of your strength.

This age we are living in is going to close out. Are you going to go with Him?

The born again are not of This World. We are aliens. We look for the Completion of the Bible.

Some day soon, Father God is going to STAND UP. Jesus will come in the Clouds, for His Church.

At that time, the Holy Spirits presence will not be as near as He is now.

How does splitting Bible amongst ourselves Help the Unbelieving have enough knowledge and faith, to take hold of God with that faith and believe Jesus is Who His Word says He is?

Pray to the LORD of the Harvest. Then go out and work in the Harvest. Ask the Lord to set up Divine Appointments. Go ye.

Do you love me? Feed My Sheep. Carry My lambs. Ask yourself, What Time is it?

Mishael

I'm glad I won't be forgiven on the basis that I have forgiven others. That is Law not Grace. We are now forgiven because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary. He forgave us all our sins, past, present and future. That is Grace. Now we forgive because we were forgiven not to gain forgiveness. The Law was given by Moses. God raised up Paul to preach Grace to Gentiles who were - "with out Christ, being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" Ephesians 2:11-12.

When you read the Bible take note of who it is addressing. We were not told to sacrifice animals, build an ark, keep Jewish holidays, etc. that was under the Law of Moses. We are saved by faith alone. Romans 4:4; Colossians 2:14; Galatians 2:20.

Hello Vince,

Thank you for your comments. I was wanting to respond specifically to your comment, "I guess they think Christ died on the cross so we can be Lawless."

No, I do not believe that Jesus died for me so that I could be lawless. I do want to obey God's Laws. However, what has God commanded me to do? Would you suggest that I be circumcised so as to keep God's Law recorded at Leviticus 12:3? Why would I do that when the Apostles decided in Acts 15 that I need not be circumcised in order to serve God.

So, what do I obey. As a Christian, I obey the instructions that the Apostles gave to the first-century Church in the epistles from Romans to Revelation. They never tell me to keep the Sabbath or be circumcised or keep the festivals of Israel. In fact, they tell me the opposite:

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe days (sabbaths), and months (lunar month), and times (festivals), and years (sabbatical). I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

I obey the New Testament made between God and the Church of God via the mediator Jesus Christ since I am a Christian. I do not obey the Old Testament made between God and ancient Israel via the mediator Moses. I am not an Israelite.

Please see Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13.

Notice that the Bible is separated into 2 portions - the Old Testament and the New Testament. Jesus inaugurated the New Testament with his shed blood. See Luke 22:20. These are the laws that I obey - God's laws for Christians in the New Testament.

I kindly invite your comments.

Good day.

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your further comments.

Good day, Richard.

Hello Bridget,

Thank you for your comments.

You quoted Exodus 20:10 to say that we must observe the sabbath. However, you quoted from the Old Testament given to the ancient nation of Israel. Could you provide me a verse from the New Testament which commands the Church to keep the Sabbath? If not, why not? Why would the Apostles never instruct or remind the Christian Church to keep the sabbath if it was that important?

You also quoted Malachi 2:6 that God never changes. But, then why did God change the law of circumcision? The Old Testament said you must be circumcised - a commandment of God at Leviticus 12:3. But, in the New Testament, we are told that circumcision is not necessary. See Galatians 5:2. Also, why does Hebrews 7:12 say the the priesthood was changed? I thought you said that God never changes. In the Old Testament, the priesthood was Levitical but in the New Testament, the priesthood is according to the order of Mechizedek - another change of God. See Hebrews 7:11.

The Apostle Paul, at Galatians 4:10, scolds the Galatians for keeping the Old Testament rituals. The brackets are mine.

Galatians 4:10

"Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

No wonder the Apostle Paul asks the question at:

Galatians 4:21 "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the (Mosaic Old Testament) law, do ye not hear the law?"

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your comments, Bridget.

Good day.

Hello Dan. Thank you for your comments.

A person cannot judge another man for not keeping the Sabbath in the Christian Church under the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, a person was required to judge such a person and stone them to death.

However, in the New Covenant given to the Christian Church, the Elders of a Church are indeed required to judge a man who is sinning such as by committing fornication.

At 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, there is a case of a man who is living in a state of sexual immorality. The Apostle Paul tells the Elders of that Church to judge and disfellowship that individual. Notice:

1 Corinthians 5: 12, 13 "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

That unrepentant, sinful person had to be judged and be thrown out of the Church. Yes, those who break the serious laws of the New Covenant, such as fornication - a serious sin - were judged and expelled.

However, no Christian could be judged for not keeping the Sabbath since the Sabbath was only given to Israel in the Old Covenant. The Apostle Paul and the other Apostles never commanded the Church to keep the Sabbath. If the Sabbath was that important, why would he not do so? Colossians 2:14-16 explains why. I invite you to read it.

As for Matthew 5:18, I would suggest you also read the other portion of that statement recorded at Luke 16:16:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

The Old Covenant was until John. Then, Jesus at his death with his blood, instituted the New Covenant or New Testament - laws found in the books of Romans to Revelation to the Christian Church - the so-called New Testament.

I would also invite you to read Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Luke 22:20.

Hello Dan.

I would suggest that the "commandments" referred to in 1 John 5:2, 3 are not the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments. If that were so, then Christians would be obligated to circumcise their children as per God's commandment at Leviticus 12:3. The New Testament said that circumcision is not required at Acts 15. Yet, that was a commandment of God. If we are to obey all God's commandments, then why do we not go up to Jerusalem three times a year as was commanded by God's commandment at Deuteronomy 16:16. Why do we not stone adulterers and adulteresses as commanded by God at Leviticus 20:10. That was his commandment.

I would suggest that the "commandments" of God referred to at 1 John 5:2, 3 are the New Covenant commandments that were given to the Church through the Apostles via revelations such as to the Apostle Paul and inspiration as others wrote the New Testament - Romans to Revelation. In those instructions, we are never commanded to keep the Sabbath Day holy nor to keep the kosher laws. In fact, we are commanded the opposite:

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Therefore, Christians do not obey the Old Covenant Mosaic Law given to ancient Israel but only to the New Covenant Laws given to the Church via the Apostles through the epistles of Romans to Revelation. Jeremiah had prophesied such at:

Jeremiah 31:31, 32 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: NOT according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Christians are no longer under the Old Covenant Laws (the 10 commandments followed by approximately another 600 laws). Jeremiah prophesied:

Jeremiah 31:31, 32 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

You will notice that the New Covenant would NOT be like the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was inaugurated by the shed blood of Christ as per:

Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

Under this New Covenant, the Laws being stipulated namely in Romans to Revelation, we are never commanded to keep the Sabbath Day holy. In fact, we are commanded the opposite.

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Before the Mosaic Law was given at the time of the exodus from Egypt, the Bible never says that the faithful kept the Sabbath Day - whether that be Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Notice when the Sabbath was given and to whom:

Nehemiah 9:13, 14 "Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Ezekiel 20:10-12 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them...

The word "them" is referring to ancient Israel.

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your insightful comments. I enjoyed reading them. Quite accurate.

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 fail to notice an important point, namely, Jesus said, "till all be fulfilled".

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

The Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ once he died and was resurrected. His death put to death the Mosaic Law as recorded at:

Colossians 2:14-16: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 often do not notice what Jesus said in the parallel account at:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

There, Jesus said further that the law, that is, the Mosaic Law, was UNTIL John. After John, it would be the New Covenant that was inaugurated by Jesus' shed blood. (See Luke 22:20.)

Thus, 1 John 5:2, 3 and all other verses in the New Testament (Romans to Revelation), referring to God's commandments, does not refer to the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments but only to the laws of the New Covenant (Romans to Revelation). In that New Testament Law, no instruction is ever made to keep the Sabbath Day or to circumcise all males, etc.

I share these thoughts with you and hope you enjoy them.

Hi Johnny How about I paste a reply from Michael on a similar topic. I think you will find your answer here.

Jesus himself was born under the Mosaic Law and, therefore, was required to keep the Mosaic Law. That is why he was circumcised on the eight day as per the Mosaic Law. Notice that in the following verse. Jesus was made (or born) under the law - the Mosaic Law.

Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

As long as that Mosaic Law was in force, the Mosaic Law (the so-called Old Testament) was in force. Jesus therefore kept his Father's commandments of that Mosaic Law. But, the Holy Scriptures has said that God would set up a New Covenant that would not be like the Old Covenant. Notice...

Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

It was not the Apostle Paul who changed God's Law to his people - it was God himself as per Jeremiah 31:31. However, the Apostle Paul, writing under inspiration of God, gave the first-century Church the new directives or laws governing that New Covenant. He never instructed the Christian Churches of the first-century to keep the Mosaic Law such as circumcision or the sabbaths. In fact, he instructed them the complete opposite. Notice again...

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

You cannot judge a Christian for not keeping the sabbath days - as per the New Covenant that has been set up between God and his present-day people - the Church of God.

I welcome your further thoughts, Dan. Good day.

Dear Brother Michael,

I will agree that many of the old ceremonial laws, including animal sacrifices, and other old customs that were previously required have been eliminated because they are no longer required in order to receive God's forgiveness, as it was during the old testament days before Christ.

Christ became the sacrificial lamb. God gave us the ultimate gift and total sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ. And now, through Christ we can be forgiven and saved.

You quoted Paul in Colossians 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

True no man can judge another. The judging will be performed by Christ. But this scripture you quoted above does not eliminate the need to follow God's 4th commandment! This scripture simply states they we should not judge one another. You conveniently pulled out the word Sabbath and then you interpret it to mean we can eliminate the need to follow the 4th commandment! I read and understand this scripture in a different way than you. To me, it means if a brother or sister does not keep the Sabbath we are not to judge them.....Christ will judge.

Romans 14:10

"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

We will all eventually be judged by Christ. I will continue to believe and strive to follow God's 10 Commandments, including the 4th Commandement: Keep Holy the Sabbath. God's 10 commandments will always exist, until heaven and earth pass.....this is from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

You have quoted the apostle Paul in scripture regarding the Sabbath, and I am quoting Jesus. If there is a conflict between them I will respectfully defer to Jesus.

God Bless

Hello Dan. Thank you for your response.

Jesus himself was born under the Mosaic Law and, therefore, was required to keep the Mosaic Law. That is why he was circumcised on the eight day as per the Mosaic Law. Notice that in the following verse. Jesus was made (or born) under the law - the Mosaic Law.

Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

As long as that Mosaic Law was in force, the Mosaic Law (the so-called Old Testament) was in force. Jesus therefore kept his Father's commandments of that Mosaic Law. But, the Holy Scriptures has said that God would set up a New Covenant that would not be like the Old Covenant. Notice...

Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

It was not the Apostle Paul who changed God's Law to his people - it was God himself as per Jeremiah 31:31. However, the Apostle Paul, writing under inspiration of God, gave the first-century Church the new directives or laws governing that New Covenant. He never instructed the Christian Churches of the first-century to keep the Mosaic Law such as circumcision or the sabbaths. In fact, he instructed them the complete opposite. Notice again...

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

You cannot judge a Christian for not keeping the sabbath days - as per the New Covenant that has been set up between God and his present-day people - the Church of God.

I welcome your further thoughts, Dan. Good day.

Dear George,

I don't believe most Christians think they are observing Sabbath on Sunday. I think very few minority would think Sunday is the Sabbath. A day of worship is not the same as the Sabbath day.

Christians likely meet on Sunday, because:

(1) The example is they met on first day of the week

(2) Christians can worship any day, and many choose Sunday.

Maybe your question is why do most Christians not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday:

(1) Colossians 2:16, 17

(2) Jesus healed others on the Sabbath

(3) Jesus challenged the Pharisees in how they observed the Sabbath and redefined it for them: Mark 3:4, Mark 2:27

(4) Matthew 5:17-18 (fulfilled but not abolished). Many will say the 10 commandments still apply, like it's still just as wrong to kill someone, but a % may say the 4th commandment (keep Sabbath) may not still apply.

That is to help answer your first question, but I didn't understand your second one.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

(Christians are not under the Old Covenant or Testament but under the New Covenant or Testament.)

Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

(Jesus set up or inaugurated the New Covenant or Testament with his shed blood.)

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

(The Apostle Paul, in all his letters, never instructed the first-century Church to keep the Sabbath - not once. In fact, he said that no man can judge another concerning the sabbath day, nor meat (food) or holydays such as the Day of Atonement in which sacrifices were commanded to be offered by God. Many of the laws of the Old Covenant or Testament are not kept by the first-century Church - such as circumcision, the Festival of Booths, the law requiring men to go up to Jerusalem three times a year, purification laws (washing) for when a person touches a dead body, etc.)

Jerry

i don't see anywhere in this tread where someone said the the sabbath was moved to Sunday, in fact we Adam said made it clear "Sounds like gathering on the first day ( Acts 20:7) of the week to worship is being confused with observing the Sabbath." in other words we're not saying that.

We're saying they gathered on the 1st day of the week.

following Christ is a 24/7 lifestyle that the Holyspirit moves you to do, not the 10 commandments, so yes Saturday is a Holy Day and so is the other 6 days. I also don't see where I or anyone said the 10 commandments was abolished, but I gave you Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What Paul is saying here is what he said in Romans 7:9.For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And Romans 8:3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

And where did we judge you?

Romans 14:4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

GOD BLESS

Hi Jerry.

Exodus 31:13-14, 16-17 (KJV) Speak thou also unto the. "CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, "saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among " HIS PEOPLE".

Wherefore the ""CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.""shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout ""THEIR""generations, for a perpetual covenant.

""IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL""

for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Do you noticed he never gave that commandment to the rest of the world?

Now look what Paul says concerning those same sabbaths:

Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

LET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT, OR IN DRINK, OR IN RESPECT OF AN HOLYDAY, OR OF THE NEW MOON, OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS:

""WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME;"" but the body is of Christ.

According to Isaiah 9:6, 12:2, 25:9, 43:11, 45:21-22, 54:5, Luke 1:68, John 8:24-27, 8:58, 10:28-30, 12:45, 14:6-9, 20:28, Acts 20:28, 2nd Corinthians 5:19, Ephesians 4:4-5, Colossians 2:9, 1st Timothy 3:16, John 3:5, Matthew 28:18-19, Luke 24:47-49, and Acts 2:37, Acts 2:38 is the true Biblical plan of salvation. Further backed up by Acts 4:12, 8:12, 8:16, 10:47-48, 19:2-6, and 22:16.

Acts 2:38 is the first Christian message ever preached and it needs to be obeyed.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:27-29 KJV

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Romans 6:1-5 KJV

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:11-14 KJV

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 3:20-21 kjv

These scriptures do show the Godhead speaking amongst themselves. Before and after the Cross.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Tom,

Although it is very easy to twist the scriptures from our English bibles because English is a very general language and very easy to twist, a person who speaks of a Godhead is not twisting scripture at all. In our English bible, there are many words that have multiple meanings, and that's why we often debate and have disagreements on what the English text actually is saying. We have to keep in mind that what we are reading in our English text is a translation from Greek.

As you say, the word "Godhead" is not found in the bible, at least not in our English bible. But I would argue that Godhead is found in the bible. It is found three times in the King James.

Acts 17:29 says, "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the THEIOS (English translation=GODHEAD) is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Romans 1:20 says, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and THEIOTES (GODHEAD); so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the THEOTES (GODHEAD) bodily.

So Godhead is found in the scripture. It's in these three places I just shared with you.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Mishael

I was taught that 'Selah' means to pause and think upon (ponder) what I'm reading. I had to learn to slow down. Found in Psalms and Book of Habakkah.

Many commentators think that Selah meant 'to pause' or 'to reflect'. This could have been a request for the reader or listener to pause and think about what has just been said, or it could have been a space for voices to pause and for instruments play alone. We don't really know for certain.

Regardless, the word Selah itself indeed causes us to pause and consider what God may be saying even when we don't fully understand. Selah gives us an opportunity to take a moment away from this crazy, busy, non-stop life we all tend to live and consider the immense mysteries and wonders of God. Paul speaks to this in Colossians 2:2-3, My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

What is the motive for this campaign to discredit Jesus's divinity? Why do you celebrate when you feel you have delivered your case? Does this actually come from God, or does it actually come from the great deceiver?

Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.

Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 44:6

John 20:27-28

John 10:30

John 5:18

John 1:18

Colossians 2:9-10

John 10:33

John 1:1

John 1:14

1 Corinthians 8:6

Revelation 1:17-18

Acts 7:59-60

Matthew 28:19

2 Peter 1:1

Acts 20:28

1 John 5:7

Verse 8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit , after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ .

May God bless his word to you !

Respectfully,

Jesus was never "fully God & fully man" (that term is not found in scripture)

The man Christ Jesus is called the Christ, because he was annointed with the holy Spirit of his Father. This is the definition of the word; Christ - the annointed one.

When was he annointed? :

Luke 3:22

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

This is when the fulness of the Godhead (God the Father who is the Holy Spirit - John 4:24/ Leviticus 11:44) began to dwell in the body of His Son ( Colossians 2:9).

Not at His birth.

Yes, Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit (God the Father)-( Matthew 1:18) in the womb of a virgin.

But the Holy Spirit (God) did not begin to dwell in His Son until His baptism by John in the Jordan.. and only then did Jesus begin His 3.5 year ministry of miracles signs and wonders.

This is not my opinion, this is what the scripture declares.