Discuss Colossians 2 Page 3

QUESTION?

Is Christ God?

Ephesians 4:13 Till WE ALL COME into the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Colossians 2:9 For IN HIM dwelleth all the FULLNESS of the Godhead BODILY.

Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ IN YOU ......are you not the body of Christ .....

1 Corinthians 12:27 ... ye are the BODY of Christ ......

John 19:34 ..... Is it not written IN YOU LAW, I HAVE SAID, Ye are gods?

Hi Jesse,

Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.

You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.

The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10.

Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.

All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 Revelation 20:14.

May our discussion inspire study.

God bless,

RLW

Hello Ronald,

Yes, this has been discussed before. There are those who believe Jesus is God, and those who don't. I know where you stand, and you know where I stand. I'm glad to know that you also disagree with both the Mormon and JW's view on who Jesus is. Many cult groups deny the deity of Jesus Christ, and also deny that He is God.

I wasn't speaking about the trinity although I believe in a Triune God. This comes mainly from Colossians 2:9. I'm not sure if there's a clearer statement than that! In Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in bodily form! In 1 John 5:20, there are two great statements of fact; Jesus Christ is the true God, and He is the eternal life!

I didn't know that today in Christianity, salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. I stand with you when I say that I don't believe that is a requirement for salvation. The bible teaches that salvation is obtained by surrendering one's life to Jesus Christ and being born from above.

Your questions are fair and might challenge someone to question their belief as Jesus being God. A fair question was also asked in Mark 2:5-8. To a man who was sick of the palsy, Jesus said, "thy sins be forgiven thee." For that, the scribes accused Jesus of blasphemy. Their question was "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Good question! God is the only one who can forgive sins, so why is this man (Jesus) committing blasphemy?

This is not the first time He was accused of blasphemy. He was accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God, claiming to be the Son of God, which to those who heard Him, they understood very well that the phrase "Son of God" was the same as claiming to be God. So, they had every right to accuse Him of blasphemy, unless of course Jesus was (and is) God, which I believe He is!

Ronald, thank you so much for reading my original 2-part post, and thank you for sharing your belief on this important topic. Blessings to you also!

Amasuca;

Micah 4 is a prophecy of Jesus Christ (the Kingdom of God).

It has been happening to the called out now for 2000 years, ever since John came PREACHING: prepare ye the way; for the kingdom of God, is AT HAND.

Colossians 2:27 .... this MYSTERY .... Christ IN YOU ........

God Bless You

Hello Hadassah,

We've been married 44 years now and we made that decision right off the bat.

I believe that Paul spoke in Colossians 2:16 about the freedom of believers from the necessity of keeping the OT feasts and holy days. I believe we are free to do so or not dot do so. We also are free to celebrate the seasons of the year, national holidays, birthdays, weddings, anniversaries, family feasts, etc. or not to do so.

But we do need to be on guard about using celebrations for idolatrous practices; as a license to sin and debauchery, drunkenness, and hedonism; as an devotion to the holiday or persons instead of to the Lord.

So, as Paul said, in whatever we do, we are to do it with a clear conscience unto the Lord, with thanksgiving to God and respect for His holiness and supremacy as the only true God.

We are headed over to family today to celebrate Thanksgiving. We have not all been together with nieces, nephews, and grands for a few years with this brother of mine. Looking forward to seeing everyone again. We always have a good time. Also, my other brother is up from Hawaii, so we will see him today and he will come down to stay with us for a few days. He usually divides his time between four households of family members that we all get along with. There are 4 other siblings of mine which is a different story as to their spiritual outlook, love for God, and lifestyles.

I hope you are well during this season with all that is going around. I pray to not get any respiratory viruses since I usually have severe problems due to asthma and reactive airways. For this reason, I don't gather with large groups much and usually hang with people who respect this weakness of my physical body, rescheduling if they have a cold, cough, or any other respiratory symptoms. It has been an adjustment for us, but since I retired from teaching, I have been much more well each cold/flu season by practicing this "social distancing". Not everyone needs to do this, tho.

The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE

Something amazing about that BOOK. Do you know why it's called the LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE?

It is filled with the names of those of us who have LIFE, the LIFE of the BLESSED SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

FULL of LIFE! Abundant LIFE! John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might have it more abundantly." What does it mean to have LIFE more abundant?

To be FULL of the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD, and to have HIS name written on our foreheads though the circumcision not made with hands Colossians 2:11 "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" May we endeavor to keep to HIS fullness for we are complete in HIM. Colossians 2:10

Being renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

Our hope is in JESUS, and not in the things of this world. So, yes, we prepare, and we equip ourselves as soldiers in the army of God, prepared for battle. Yet, we lean NOT on our own strength, but on His everlasting arms, because He is our strength, our shield.

We study to show ourselves approved of GOD. For we are not those who seek honor from men, but the honor that comes from God alone, and he gives us favor. "So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man." Proverbs 3:4

He is the MASTER potter, and we are the clay. May our lives be honorable unto Him, and him alone. For He alone is worthy to be praised. I magnify His name. His glorious name JESUS. All powerful is our LORD, and Savior Jesus Christ.

The grace of our Lord and Savior be with you. Amen

Salvation there is a death and an ressurection for the TRUE believers.

This is not done by an alter call or an profession but by the Spirit of God that searches the heart.

Colossians 2:12

having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead

2 Corinthians 4:16

Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Galatians 6:15

For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Colossians 3:1

Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Romans 7:6

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Ephesians 4:24

and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Life begins here as a babe in Christ,

God bless you for this all important portion of scripture.

If this is not gotten right nothing else matters.

Hi Daruled,

We cannot say Satan made me do it, we are responsible if we sin.

What is death? Is it just the body that dies and our conscious soul, lives on somewhere outside the body? This started when the serpent said to Eve, Ye shall not surely die, you will be as gods. Most pagan religions have an afterlife where the soul lives forever. In the Bible, the OT is the word Sheol meaning the grave and death was sleep with no knowledge or consciousness, nowhere is the immortal soul in the Bible.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they were taken out of the garden and forbidden eternal life/immortality from the Tree of Life, Gen. 3:24. When the OT was translated into Greek Sheol became Hades with the Greek meaning that came with it, and in English, it's Hell with the same Greek meaning, the soul separates from the body and the conscious souls goes to a place of the dead. Many believe there is either eternal life with Jesus or eternal damnation in Hell/lake of fire where they will be tormented for eternity.

If we say our soul is immortal, we are saying we are gods because we cannot die. But the Bible says without the gift of eternal life given to us in the resurrection we will die the second death, we will perish, be destroyed forever to be no more. Romans 6:23 Psalms 37:10-13 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:25, 29 John 3:16 2 Peter 2:10-12, they are mortal and will perish.

The unrighteous will be destroyed/perish, they will have their part in the lake of fire, Rev. 21:8. Their death is forever, not forever in torment. When we die our destiny is fixed, there is not a second chance after death. This adoption of the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul and Hades fogs our understanding, it plugs our ears that are to hear.

I could say more but I will leave it here, I hope you will study for the truth. We should empty our minds in prayer where we are open to the truth given by the Spirit of Truth, not led by the traditions of men, Colossians 2:8.

RLW

Page 1.

Thanks for your explanation of 'abrogation' Daruled. Though I understand what you're writing, I still can't see how if 'you don't believe in it' (i.e. in this instance by my use of it), yet I can still "use it correctly". Therefore, Matthew 5:18 as you quoted, is of no problem to me as I read that Jesus was born "under the Law ( Galatians 4:4), to redeem them that were under the law" ( Galatians 4:5). He came as a Jew, abiding by the Laws & all the ceremonial requirements, as the Old Covenant was still in force. And as He said, "I am not come to destroy (the Law), but to fulfil"; His purpose was not to remove the Law but to fulfil its demands perfectly (and so He did in His Life & in His Death). He could not be accused to have broken any Law, even though the religious leaders had much to accuse Him of according to their interpretations & inclusions within the Law. They might even have thought of this Man, with this new teaching, as an opponent to 'their brand' of Laws & thus undermining their hypocritical regime. But Jesus said that the true Law's destruction wasn't His purpose of coming.

But when the Work at the Cross was fully accomplished, the Law that once only led to death giving no hope, was nailed to the Cross ( Colossians 2:14), thus bringing an end to both it & the Old Covenant under which it was enshrined. To Page 2.

Brother Dan, I am sorry you feel that way.

You wrote "Yes it is the 4th Commandment. Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God."

There are several scriptures here that do not lend support to your position regarding Christians having to maintain the Sabbath. Not to mention the entire book of Galatians weighing in on the law.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 (AMP)

7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,

8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?

9 For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!

10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].

11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!

Also, Romans 8:1-4 (KJV)

Are the "commandments" you are referring to the Old Testament laws, especially the Ten Commandments, or are they commands or charges given by Christ?

The book of Galatians addressed this legalism, and one might conclude that Paul defeated the teachers of legalism so effectively that the issue would never trouble the church again. History and experience prove otherwise! Legalism has become so important a part of Christendom that most people believe that it actually belongs.

Let's examine them one at a time. In regards to 1 John 2:4

Those who understand "knowing" in reference to salvation insist that assurance of salvation comes by obeying either the Old Testament laws or the commands of Christ in the New Testament. Those of the Reformed covenant persuasion generally see commandments as referring to the Ten Commandments, which they believe are still binding on believers as a rule of life. Interestingly, the word translated commandments is not the Greek nomos, which John reserves for the Mosaic Law. It is rather entole, meaning order, command, or change. Dispensationalists, on the other hand, do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life, as the way by which God deals with His people ( 2Co 3:7-11; Heb 7:11-14).*[For a full discussion of the contrasts between covenantism and dispensationalism, see Renald E. Showers, There Really Is a Difference (Bellmawr, NJ "Twenty-First Century Biblical Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.

All Scripture including all of Paul's letters to the churches are inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and Jesus do not contradict each other. Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Hence why majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life, as the way by which God deals with His people ( 2Co 3:7-11; Heb 7:11-14).

The short answer is NO! per Col 2:16.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV) 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Jema,

As I pointed out in another comment, we must be extremely careful when talking about the God Head, as our finite minds cannot fully grasp the Nature of Infinite God. We read the Bible and accept what we read by faith without attempting to go beyond that. And there is no question that Jesus, the Lord Jesus Christ, was and is Eternal God Himself.

I am a bit shocked by you statement. And that is absolutely not what the Bible teaches. In the first place if Jesus was not God, He could not have paid for the sins of anyone by enduring the Wrath of God, eternal death required by the Law of God and then have risen again.

Here are just a couple of verses that militate against what you are suggesting:

Speaking of Jesus, we read in Colossians 2:8,9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. FOR IN HIM DWELLETH ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY.

And then in John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

And there are others, like John 1:1-5.

Now you do make a very interesting point about Jesus being called the "SON" of God, and "BEGOTTEN" of the Father. There is no question that Christ existed from Eternity past as Eternal God Himself and will continue to exist throughout Eternity future as Eternal God Himself. But it is fair to ask the question, When did Christ "become" the Son of God? Because the word "Begotten" signifies a "beginning". I submit that Christ became the Son of God when He rose from the Dead. But Jesus is referred to as the Son of God even before going to the Cross here on earth. Without getting into a detailed discussion, I think the case can be made that Christ was, very literally, "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" Rev13:8.

To be continued

P3

Colossians 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."

1 John 2:1 "My little children these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sins we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

Ephesians 2:3 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Exodus 25:13

Hebrews 9:5 "And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly."

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."

1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep gone astray; but now are returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."

Isaiah 42:1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring judgement to the Gentiles."

John 8:28- 29 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak those things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always these things that please him."

1 Timothy 2:8 "I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."

Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."

Psalms 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

John 17:1 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou has given me, that they may be one, as we are."

P4 follows

Hi CJF,

Godhead is a word that is in 3 verses in the KJV. Acts 17:29 Romans 1:20 and Colossians 2:9. Godhead comes from an Old English word godhede in 1200 AD. In Acts it is the Greek word theios that means divine, manifesting the characteristics of God's nature. In Romans, it is the Greek word theiots that means divinity, divine nature. In Colossians, it is the Greek word theots that mean deity, fulness of deity.

These are three different Greek words that the translators chose to translate Godhead. You ask is the Godhead one God or three persons? Some use this word to refer to the doctrine of the Trinity but in the context of the chapters this word is used, does not refer to that.

Godhead is God the Father himself, it pleased him to have all His divine fullness to dwell in His only begotten Son. The meaning for the word Godhead is the divine nature of God that was manifested in His only begotten Son, John 10:38 John 14:10.

Your question is more about the doctrine of the Trinity I am sure others would reply on that.

I hope this helps,

God bless,

RLW

Jerry.

Part 5.

Who is God? - His Nature

We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible ( John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite ( 1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable ( 2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging ( Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere ( Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything ( Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority ( Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6).

Who is God? - His Work

We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God's works, past, present, and future: God created the world ( Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world ( Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan ( Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death ( Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ ( John 6:44); He disciplines His children ( Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world ( Revelation 20:11-15).

Who is God? - A Relationship with Him

In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate ( John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the "bridge" between God and man ( John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins ( Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God ( John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ "all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" ( Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus.

Jerry that is much of what we know about God and that probably don't scratch the surface on GOD!

I HOPE THIS HELPS.

GOD BLESS.

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:" Colossians 2:6 KJV

Hi Jriley.

It is clear that there was always a chosen line of ancestry. This is evident from the fact that the Book of Genesis only gives the genealogy of Seth (although Cain's genealogy is mentioned briefly), ignoring all the other descendants of Adam and Eve.

The line of Seth takes us all the way to the birth of Jesus. "There are some Gentiles in the line of Jesus by way of Rahab and Ruth.

There was always a chosen line, but that does not mean there has ALWAYS been a separation of Jews and Gentiles.

It seems, then, that the separation of Jews and Gentiles did not BEGIN to occur until God called Abraham to be the father of His chosen nation, Israel ( Genesis 12). Many view Abraham as the first Jew, even though the precise term Jew did not come into use until after the return from exile when the tribe of Judah was dominant.

Another placement of the division of Jews from Gentiles would be with Jacob, whose name was changed by God to Israel

Genesis 32:28.

(All of the descendants of Jacob, through his 12 sons)

I believe the separation of lineage started with Seth and the ACTUAL separation of Jews and the rest of the world/Gentiles Started in Genesis 17:10-19 and highlighted in vs 17-18.

"And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Abraham was given a seal if a covenant of circumcision, "A cutting away of sinful flesh" in

Genesis 17:10-14.

This pointed to Christ work on the cross. Colossians 2:10-17.

This has nothing to do with race!

It has everything to do with covenant!

And a Jew inwardly has nothing to do with Israel as a Nation and God's covenant and future promises to the Nation Israel and the Davidic kingdom in the Millennium.

GB.

A general study on a day in the life of Christ

In more careful investigation of scripture; it appears that there are accounts that clearly delineate happenings that occur within a 24 hour day; and others that continue a narrative that may or may not encompass multiple days or perhaps longer periods of time. I thought therefore that a general study of the variety of challenges the Lord faced constantly; along with the spiritual giftings of all types apparent to be active simultaneously ( Colossians 2:9) would be interesting as He had all the "fullness of the Godhead bodily."

His example; therefore as our High Priest ( Heb. 7:25; etc) means that we can live by His example and thus be "imitators of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 11:1). This; of course is easier said than done; impossible in fact in our own efforts ( John 15:5).

Paul; of course is a great; if not THE penultimate example of a surrendered life; and in many ways mirrors Christ in self sacrificial love and service to the church; through many trials; persecutions; and sufferings. These studies should convince anyone who isn't in a coma that today's mushy view of Christ as embodying some sort of feel good; crowd pleasing charisma that everyone loved is far off from reality. This study is greatly challenging to myself; and I assume anyone reading these scriptures as to what is truly required to be His Disciple. Ultimately; I believe this will be a characteristic of every true believer in some aspects; but in reality few surrender their lives enough to truly live in this manner. It is more than an inconvenient truth; the challenges Christ gives to all His followers but of course is as process in some ways as well. The Spirit sanctifies us; conforming us into His image ( Romans 8:29). Philippians 4:1 and some other verses shows us how His church was Paul's crown. This makes our rewards to be based on building up brothers and sisters in the Lord; and to focus attention there keeps us from focusing on our own issues.

HARMONIZING SCRIPTURE

These scriptures goes well with my previous post.

Colossians 2:10-15.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



John 6:28-29.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Psalms 32:1-5.

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

God bless

The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matt. 12:8; also in Mark 2:28). This would legitimize commemoration of Christ on Sunday as the early church seemed to do. Naturally; we need to take seriously devoting time on Sunday as a day of rest if it is a substitute for the O.T. law; however being that we aren't to follow things dogmatically as Colossians 2:16 or Galatians 4:10-11 suggest it is clear that in the Age of Grace there is some latitude there. Also; it is the attitude of the hearts that dictates what would be necessary work as Matthew 12:11 indicates in the example of saving an animal from a ditch when Christ was confronted with healing on the Sabbath; or eating grains of wheat in the field (considered "work").

We need to consider what was going on in the Exodus years when there were strict orders on Manna as a sort of initial principle. There people were ordered to collect for two days on the Sabbath eve; which contradicted the normal daily routine where it would rot and they were specifically told NOT to save any. Such verses as the example in Numbers should at least have us soberly examine ourselves and how preoccupied we are when we come together as a local church. Some Reformed or OPC churches will not discuss anything outside scripture on Sundays. While that may be a bit too strict; all the endless banter which seems to be discussed before services in particular could use some serious editing. Not only does it detract from the sanctity of the fellowship but it keeps those needing prayer from expressing those needs; as well as squelching opportunities to offer prayers over the cacaphony. An attitude of prayer; as well as discussing the Word and God's attributes should be something the Pastor and Elders motivate people to do. A swift rebuke once in a while in convicting messages on that subject would probably be in order as well. Knowing how deep a conversation can go can quickly determine those who God has led to Disciple us or not

Hi Giannis.

Sorry for such late delays in answering your replies.

I'm on the road and working during the week.

There's no improving on the great reply Brother Chris has given!

However here's my answer, atleast the short of it.

As for the People in the OT, they were saved by the same way those in the NT are saved. They were righteous by the requirements given at that time that pointed to the Cross.

Everything anyone did or do, whether Johns baptism or the disciples baptism "whether before or after" Pointed to one who was coming or came. And that is Christ!

As for them being clean before Pentecost.

John 15:3-4 tells us how the disciples were clean. "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Christ was with them when he went to the Father he said he would send them ANOTHER Comforter. Even before Christ was risen the Lord spirit has always been active in revealing truth and saving souls.

Matthew 16:17 is an example.

They had the Chief Shepherd with them, When he was smitten they scattered!

For the same reason the disciples didn't fast like John's disciples.

Mark 2:18-20.

As for the example sequence you laid out.

Quoting you;

"Peter said to people to just have a knowledge about Christ then get water baptised and then get born again?

That confuses me! I'll leave that one alone.

You asked; "What is baptism? and referenced Colossians 2:12 "Buried with him in baptism"...

You also referenced " Romans 6:3-7

, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

We are to recognize this as done!

Water baptism didn't do neither.

Water baptism ritually points to the operation being done.

Gb

Pt 2

Spencer.

Lets assume your are right about people in Samaria. So how about the apostles? Weren't they born again before Pentecost? But Jesus called them clean during the last supper i.e. in John 13:10.

When Peter preached to the Jews on Pentecost he said at the end, Acts 2:38, "..., Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.". Shall I assume that Peter said to people to just have a knowledge about Christ then get water baptised and then get born again? Hard to believe. I don't think there is any christian church of any denomination that teaches such a sequence of salvation.

Question. What is baptism? In Colossians 2:12 says "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.".

Also in Romans 6:3-7, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: ..."

So the baptism among other is symbolic for the burial of our old sinful man and the subsequent erection of the new man. But we bury something that is dead not alive. Baptism has to come after the death of the old man, not before.

Lets go to that incident that Paul met those disciples in Ephessus.( Acts 18:1-7). He asks them if they received the Spirit after they believed? Strange question, isn't it? He also asumes that they were water baptised, because he asks tthem in what name they were baptised. (since they told him that they had never heard of the Holly Spirit, he wonders how come they had never heard of it since we are baprised in the name of the Father, the Son and HTE HOLLY SPIRIT). So Paul assumed in the begining that they were also w/baptised.

Did Israel faithlessness void God's promises to Israel?

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Paul is asking if there is someone without faith, shall their lack of faith cancel out the faithfulness of God?

Paul answers that in vs 4 God forbid:

Israel's failures doesn't void out the promises of God.

God's promise to send Israel the redeemer was not voided by their wilful disobedience and rejection.

All his promises for the future of the nation will be fulfilled to his glory in spite of their unbelief. This is the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham.

Here's a few more verses causes people to believe the Church is the new Israel.

Galatians 3:28-29.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 2:28-29

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Now these verses is not talking about an ethnic group.

Paul gives us the subject of the matter in Romans 3:1.

"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"

Now here is where Paul was actually contrasting the Jews and the law, and the promise by faith of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 2:11-12.

This contrast the belief that righteousness came by the outwardly circumcised jew and the circumcision of the heart, in the spirit,

In other words Abraham was given the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith before he was circumcised.

Romans 4:11-13.

So Jew and Israel is not always used synonymous in the scripture.

Gigi.

Part 2.

The substance of the material for the furniture of the Tabernacle was different in the Holy Place. In the outer court, brass was the prevailing material since it had to do with the judgment of sin. In the Holy Place, gold was the material that predominated. This was no accident or chance occurrence. Gold was the only object that set forth in such a visible way the deity of Christ. Two objects of furniture, the lampstand and the mercy seat, were made entirely of gold.

The lampstand was the perfect symbol of Christ as the Son of God:

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. ( John 1:9)

He was a "light of the Gentiles" ( Isaiah 42:6). Had He been philanthropic and had not come out of God, He would have been merely another teacher "that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge" ( Job 38:2). He would have only added another ethical system to the already multitudinous and multifarious systems, and He would have been but the harbinger of darkness "through philosophy and vain deceit" ( Colossians 2:8). But as the Son of God, He "is light, and in him is no darkness at all" ( 1 John 1:5).

The lampstand was handmade of beaten work and was highly ornamented. There was a central shaft with three branches on a side, making seven branches in all. Each branch contained three sections, each section being beaten into the shape of an almond blossom and a knop. On top of each shaft was an open almond blossom. On each of these were placed the olive oil lamps.

See part 3.

Hope this helps:

Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

James 4:4 - Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Matthew 6:24 - No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Hello Errol. I'm unsure who challenged you about the manner of Jesus' Coming to Earth & you are correct Jesus came from within God's Person ( John 1:1-14, the Word of God made flesh) & He had all of God's fullness within His Being ( Colossians 2:9: "For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (in a human body)").

I know that those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses have their erroneous understanding of Colossians 1:15, "Who (i.e. Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature". The Greek word for 'firstborn' is 'prototokos' and when written of Jesus, it applies to His preeminence & highest rank of all creation, though He Himself was never created, because He was "begotten of the Father" ( John 1:14). Whereas the JW reads Colossians 1:15 as, "the first created of every creature"; removing the 'prototokos' & replacing it with 'protokitses'. This error then substantiates their belief that Jesus was merely a created Being from God, thereby nullifying His Divinity.

And we see this word, 'firstborn' appearing elsewhere in the New Testament, when referring to Jesus:

Romans 8:29: "firstborn among many brethren", referring to Jesus' preeminence as the 'elder Brother' of His many brethren, the Church. And it also speaks of Jesus' as being wholly Divine yet Him merging with humanity, thus the incarnate God becoming the 'first' in line of this new creation: i.e. we who are now His brothers & sisters have been given His Spirit to indwell us, making us a new creation in Christ Jesus (God's Spirit now residing in man)": 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Colossians 1:18: "firstborn from the dead". This means that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrection Body & it will be when our bodies will be resurrected as His was - but He was our Forerunner in the resurrection. Though Lazarus & the many saints arose from the grave, they weren't given their new glorified bodies.

I hope this little extra study helps you Errol.

Make no mistake, you are saved by obedience of the gospel, it is not just believing it.

Water Baptism is all through the new testament bible. Peter preached Acts 2:38. Again he was not in error.

Book of Acts, on the day of Pentecost. Apostles doctrine through Jesus Christ with love.

Hi DDGC. By definition, 'begotten', or 'beget', is similar to what the dictionary shows. But when used biblically, and I mean about Jesus (as in John 3:16,18; 1 John 4:9), it gives us the description as "ONLY begotten". And this is important, as in Greek, the word is 'monogenes', which means, 'one & only', or 'one (mono) of a kind (genos)'. And Jesus was like no other - there was never a human born on Earth, born of a virgin and Who also held the fullness of the Deity in His Person ( Colossians 2:9). We can rightly say that Jesus was indeed the 'only begotten of God'.