Discuss Genesis 4 Page 7

Earl,

Amen, Thanks Earl

If you carefully read Genesis, you'll see that after Cain, Abel and Seth; Eve had more children.

I get lots of info from reading Geneology lists in the Bible. You can Google charts of BIBLE Geneology that you can look at.

Jesus's Geneology is really interesting if you know where the Bible speaks about some of his ancestors. Rehab was a prostitute. Ruth had been a Moabite priestess who assisted with child sacrifice. Very interesting.

S Spencer, Yes eve was the first of all living in the flesh, Christ is the first of all living the Spirit.

There are no races, sir. God has only created one race. The human race. God has created all nations to on earth from one blood. The blood of Adam.

Walt, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Man didn't start with eve; man started with Christ. Adam was just a shadow of the TRUE FIRST MAN CREATED.

Revelation 3:14 .... the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD...

The true witness is Christ.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness....

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING....

Jesus was the first man created; and when HIS WORKS are finished, He will be the LAST MAN created.

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, and THEY ARE CREATED; and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.

Romans 8:29 For whom he (GOD) did foreknow (ALL CREATION), he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he (THE SON) might be the firstborn (FIRST MAN OF CREATION) among many brethren (LAST MAN OF CREATION).

Hi Walt.

Yes, no reason to believe otherwise.

Genesis 3:20 (KJV) And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of "" ALL living.""

Did all man kind/all races of man start with Eve?

So does God have powers?

Does God love us more than those who came before us? From Pentecost to now, have we become more holy or more worthy that we should be spared from what all the believers in Christ had to endure that came before us? The body of Christ in the past have been stoned, beheaded, crucified, impaled and dipped in oil, lit as lamps along roadsides, burned at the stake, fed to lions, killed by gladiators, and tortured beyond imagination. Inflicted by kingdoms, empires, and countries throughout history even by the Roman Catholic Church, and is still going on. Do we think the end times will be worse than they have had to endure?

Why should the last generation be spared? "Take heed that no man deceive you"!

The great tribulation and the wrath of God, are not the same thing. We will be spared the wrath of God, but we have been promised tribulations, the wrath of God is after the second coming of Christ when there is no more repentance.

Acts.14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Matthew 24:21,29 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Out of love, Ron

Hi Dorothy,

Hopefully these may be the verses you were looking for:

James 4:13-15 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

Maybe Proverbs 3:5-6. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

God Bless.

Where does it say when plain for your future put God

first, something like that.

does anyone consider Cain and Abel as Esau and Isaac? any connections?

Hi Dawn,

Genesis 5. Genealogy

Here's why Cain is not in the Genealogy, 1st.

Genesis 4:11, And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;....12...13...

14: BEHOLD, THOU HAST DRIVEN ME OUT THIS DAY FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH; AND-

"""FROM THY FACE SHALL I BE HID""";

2nd.

The first 5 chapters was on the creation the next section is on Noah and the flood, The Emphasis on this Genealogy is on Adam, " The first man" to Noah.

Hebrew:

Transliteration: 'dm

Pronunciation: aw-dawm'

Definition: The same as H120; {Adam} the name of the first {man} also of a place in Palestine: - Adam.

KJV Usage: Adam(9x).

In the next division in Genesis you see a Genealogy in Ch 10 he does the same thing, you see a Genealogy of Noah with certain characters like Nimrod highlighted setting up the brief story of him in ch 11 before he gives us the story of Abraham. Again you see the family of Abraham listed as you go to ch 12 with the story of Abraham focusing just on lineage of the preceding character.

Here's another example Matthew 1:1-2 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Abraham begat "ISAAC"; and Isaac begat "JACOB"; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

Have you noticed no mention of Ishmael or Essau?

Because the focus is on Jesus to king David. this Genealogy goes through Solomon but the Genealogy in Luke goes through Nathan, One giving the legal line to the thrown and the other giving the blood line to the thrown.

I hope that clears this up for you because I don't know why one would suggest that God would bless a biological birth from Satan, Only God can permit Life.

Dawn

Genesis 4:2. I don't think it shows they came to the age of accountability at the same time, I believe Cain was offering the fruit of the ground before Abel reached the age of accountability.

The fruit of a cursed ground instead of a blood sacrifice. The issue was that God didn't require that of Cain.

When Abel came along he did what was required.

Louis,

Man's turning point from the beginning has been, "Do I believe God?"

God gave Adam ONE commandment. Eve was deceived but Adam chose to rebel, which is the evidence of unbelief.

The entire plot line of The Bible shows God pursuing man and man's responses.

Able responds by believing God while Cain does not. Genesis 4:3-5

Noah responds by believing God Genesis 6:22

Abraham believes God Genesis 15:6

...

And it all culminated in Jesus and is encapsulated in...

"And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Act 16:31

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man BELIEVETH unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Rom 10:9-10

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" 1Co 15:1-4

Upon true saving BELIEF in God man's position with God changes. Before BELIEF he is an enemy of God. After true saving BELIEF in God he is at peace with God.

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Rom 5:10

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" Rom 5:1

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jud 1:24-25 (KJVA)

The story of Cain and Abel is in Genesis 4:1-16

Hi Dawn, So you said "since this is a place to ask questions so you decided to give it a shot", So how about we first deal with Gen. 4:1-2. That verse is literal and quite direct.

Genesis 4:1. And "ADAM" knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, ""I HAVE GOTTEN A MAN FROM THE LORD."" This phrase defines Cain

In verse 2 it says "And she (AGAIN) bare his brother Abel". NO TWINS HERE!! Separate birth.

This could have happened several years later as far as we know.

when it comes to child birth the scripture is careful to mention twins if they're present as it did Essau and Jacob.

Genesis 4:2 And she ""AGAIN"" bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

You stated Eve was Beguiled "sexually seduced" by Satan.

That would be way out of context considering she was answering a direct question from the Lord!

Genesis 3:13. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, ""AND I DID EAT""

How was she beguiled? By leading her astray from God's command.

If you take this definition below of beguiled and what happens in Gen 3. it's clear we have a picture of deception!! How did you get sexually seduction out of that and disregard Genesis 4:1?

Hebrew:

Transliteration: nsh'

Pronunciation: naw-shaw'

Definition: A primitive root; to lead {astray} that {is} (mentally) to {delude} or (morally) to seduce: - {beguile} {deceive} X {greatly} X utterly.

KJV Usage: deceive(12x), greatly(1x), beguiled me(1x), seize(1x), utterly(1x).

Occurs: 16

In verses: 15

Besides it could have been a 100 years between Genesis 3:13 and Genesis 4:1.

Please give us your interpretation of Genesis 4:1 since it is scripture we cannot discard it.

And I will deal with the Genealogy. Genesis 4:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten ""A"" man ( not twins) from the LORD. Waiting on your response.

Dawn

Cain and Able were the sons of Adam, Genesis 4:1-2 Cain killed his brother, Genesis 4:8. Cain was banished from the face of the earth (Eden) and the presence of the LORD Genesis7 9:16. Abel was to be the righteous line to the Messiah Jesus Christ.

Genesis 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

God gave us the genealogy of Cain but it has no consequence on the line to Jesus. The genealogy in the Bible from Adam does not include Cain and Able, it also does not list the firstborn as some say, it covers the righteous line to Jesus. There are many teachings out there that we must be careful. We must test the spirits for there are many contrary to the word of God. Like the verse, you listed John 8:44 Here is another.

1John.3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

These verses by themselves may hint at what you said of Satan and Eve but, this does not mean they are from the physical seed of Satan (devil). Cain was not of the seed of the devil, it is saying if you choose evil, not righteousness you are of the devil. We are either sons and daughters of God or Satan (devil). You can paint a very deceptive picture with one or two verses.

1John.3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Test the spirits, if we cannot find scripture to back up what we hear or read RUN!!!

2 Corinthians 11:14-1514 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

God bless you, Ron

Hi Dawn,

Genesis 4:1 (KJV) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

God must be mad,he multiply Cain for who slew his brother.

Genesis 4:9, I feel is Cain's rhetorical question to the Lord's question as to where Abel was. As such, no answer was given. Cain's question was an attempt to side-track God's probe as to Abel's whereabouts. He knew that God knew the answer, but still wanted to absolve himself of any knowledge of Abel or wrongdoing against him; somewhat like the suspected criminal doing his best to deny even being anywhere near the scene of the crime. One could possibly get away with lies & deception before the law, but who can convince God of our wrongdoing? But for Cain, the evidence was already before God & the punishment was immediate & he had no further recourse or a second hearing.

Hi Beatrice, I do believe Abel was following instructions when he offered his sacrifice because he offered it by faith, and faith comes by hearing the word.

Hebrews 11:4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Genesis 4: 3-4 Cain offered the fruit of the ground but Abel offered the(( firstling ))of the flock.

I believe Cain sacrifice was the work of own hands and God rejected it.

Genesis 4:7. If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Just my thoughts. Thank you.

I love God and god love me to and I love his word

Hi Philip, In Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: Now lets start here, If God tells them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, God knows they can't do that with just Cain, Seth, and Abel. He would have to have blessed them with daughters, Have you noticed noone ever ask that about Seth or Abel? I believe it's because Cain went out and dwelt in the lad of nod after he killed Abel, and the think he found a wife from a pryor creation, but they forget God told Adam and Eve to replenish the earth it wasn't already replenished. Lets look carefully at when Cain went away, I think we may have a clue. Genesis 4:14-17 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, (that every one that findeth me shall slay me).

And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain,( lest any finding him should kill him.)

And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

(And Cain knew his wife;) and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. It seems there were already people other than Cain and Abel, and I take the position Cain already have his wife, they could have been hundreds of years old, we are sure Adam and Eve had daughters, and Possibly Abel, One thing for sure, She's either his sister or his niece, Maybe someone else can provide more insight, I hope that helps.

This would be an extremely difficult case to build as Paul is simply not specific to what was given him to keep him from becoming conceited after those mighty revelations.

I have always tended to believe that his eyes caused him a lot of bother. Whether he had first acquired some disease that eventually affected other parts of his body in the long term & especially his eyes, one can't be certain. Anyway, I'll give you some other Scriptures for you to consider (not in any order):

a. Romans 16:22 (Paul was the author, but Tertius his scribe possibly because of Paul's vision).

b. 1 Corinthians 16:21 & 2 Thessalonians 3:17 (Paul managed to sign off with his name while others helped with the writing of the epistle).

c. Galatians 6:11 (Paul wrote in large letters, rather than writing a 'long letter', as he didn't have a scribe to help him).

d. Galatians 4:13 (Paul preached to the Galatians first, possibly because of the region's higher altitude may have helped with a disease, e.g. malaria which left untreated, might have caused eye problems) & then in Galatians 4:15 (that the Galatians would have given him "their eyes" for his need).

e. Acts 23:3-5 (Paul insulted the High Priest not recognizing him, or as some suppose, that Paul was saying "I didn't expect a High Priest (of his calibre) to order me beaten").

Sorry, I'm directing this response towards Paul's eyes, as I feel that this was where his infirmity was. But of course, no one can say with full certainty.

"Building a case on Paul's thorn in the flesh"

Please brethren help me build a case on Paul's thorn in the flesh. I need your help gathering scripture, verses, and any information regarding "Paul's Thorn" so far I have discovered a few possibilities. In

( 2 Corinthians 12:5-10) Paul mentions:Verse 5 "infirmities" then in verse 7 he mentions the "thorn in the flesh" but in the same verse he wrote "the messenger of satan" and it also says "to buffet me" then in verse 9 he mentions "infirmities" again.

But in verse 10 this is where it gets interesting he mentions ("infirmities" "reproaches" "necessities" "persecution" and "distresses".) So far I have found one major clue its in ( Acts 28:1-6) it's right after they survived the shipwreck and landed in Melita. It mentions a venomous snake in verse 3 that "fastened on his hand" but I know there are many other possibilities for Paul's thorn in the flesh. Some scholars mention he had eye problems or that he was beaten, others say he had men who opposed him. Can you please help me gather proof on these claims please. God Bless you all in Jesus Christ's name, Amen.

Genesis 4:17 When Cain went to the land of Nod he took a wife. Who were her parents?

Thanks Chris, That's very clear.

Page 2.

Romans 2:14,15 clearly show that the Law was never in our possession & we've never been subject to them. And then when the Gentiles became believers, the only instruction given was, not that any of the commandments given to the Jews be followed, but as per Acts 15:19,20: "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

Rather, our directive can never be from the Law given to Israel, because "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." ( Romans 8:2). If the Life-giving Spirit freed a Jewish Paul from the bondage of the Law, how much more to us Gentiles, who never received the Law, are only subject to the Spirit's directions in our lives.

Again, thank you for bringing up those very worthy points.

Page 1.

Thank you for your comments Steven, on this important subject. If I may add some thoughts here:

a. "They don't view the ten commandments as our schoolmaster to show us our short comings, and a need for a savior but rather they're instructions to salvation". Indeed, some do look at salvation in this way, but I think generally, Christians who have been taught properly, don't see that obedience to the Commandments are necessary for salvation, rather, that after being saved, they revert back to it, or fuse it with saving faith, believing God requires to almost use it like a checklist to be on track & to please Him. See how much of an issue Sabbath-keeping is with some. But as you indicated, all that does is bring us back into bondage to the Law.

b. "Did Jesus struggle to resist sin as we do?" This may be difficult to answer but I rather believe that at his temptation with Satan ( Matthew 4:1-11) & very likely throughout His earthly ministry, Satan would have continued to come at Him: and this was to force sin upon Him so a sin nature may be born in Him. I say this, as we see that the first Adam was born without a sin nature, but he failed to resist Satan, & he inherited a nature given to sin & death eventually followed. So when we read that "as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" ( Romans 5:12), the fact we too die is proof of the sin nature being transmitted, rather than the import of any specific sins of Adam.

c. "we were transgressors before the commandments, and when the commandments came we died because we became sin." I tend to make a clear demarcation between those given the Law & those who haven't received it. Certainly, we are privileged to have the Bible so we can learn more fully of God's requirements, but if we're not Jews, how are the Laws, then & now, applicable to Gentiles?