Discuss Genesis 5 Page 4

The text does not list any descendants for Abel. It can be assumed that he did not have any children. Cain's lineage is listed in Chapter 4, set apart from Adam's and Seth's. I deduce that Cain continued to wander away from God over the course of his life, becoming more and more debased over time. But he was not alone, his progeny also promoted the widespread wickedness in the world in Cain's lifetime and this same wickedness took root in the lineage of Seth as well. Both lineages became corrupted. Idolatry did not have it's beginnings after the flood with the likes of Nimrod. No, it was practiced before the flood, too, on a grand scale. It grieved God deeply. How sad for Him.

As God, he could have chosen to be completely unaffected by His creation. He is totally self-sufficient and totally satisfied within the Godhead. He does not have any needs that He cannot fulfill within His Godhead. Yet He chose to be involved with His creation, to have compassion on us, to be grieved by us, to share His life with us. What a wonderful God He is. He chose to condescend Himself to be intimate with us, to know us and have us know Him. A large portion of Christians have a lower viewpoint of God than they ought. Understanding that we can only know God in His humanity in Christ meeting our humanity, He is still higher than the highest of possibilities. Makes me love and appreciate Him more knowing how he bent low to touch me, to choose me even before I was born, having called me from the womb. I honestly cannot remember a time when I did not believe in Him. But having walked with Him all my life, getting to know Him more and more through Scripture, worship, fellowship with believers, I learn more and more how Great He is and how great His love for me is. I'm humbled and grateful. Why me? From infancy? God is not a respecter of persons. He has a redemptive plan for us and He fit me into it according to His wisdom and grace. Certainly didn't earn it as an infant by good works.

In studying a timeline of the lives of Adam-Noah, and viewing who's life overlaps with whom's. With about 900 years of life per person, it seems that Adam was alive when Noah's father was alive! So at the time of Lamech, Noah's father, it is possible for all of the patriarchs that led up to Lamech may have still been alive! Imagine what these long lived people could teach and share with each new generation. Imagine what skills and talents could be perfected in 900 years. Imagine the collective knowledge and wisdom of the lineage of Adam to Noah. Imagine the strength of faith held among these patriarchs, made stronger as a family group. And then, know that in Noah's day, he alone was said to be found righteous. What happened! Enoch was alive in Lamech's lifetime before God took him to be with Him without dying. It seems that perhaps Methuselah and Lamech were not wholly committed to the Lord despite all of the influence and testimony. Maybe they became complacent since everyone was living so long and had not died yet, thinking since sin did not lead to immediate physical death, they could play around with sin, all the while death was at work in their spiritual nature. Perhaps they had become numb to God's leading. Maybe they did not follow the example of their forefathers in prayer and worship. Maybe they thought that these forefathers could do the praying and worshipping for them! I just find it so very incredible that these in the line of Seth would fall away from God. Thankfully, Noah listened and practiced the faith of his forefathers, not the unbelief of his father and grandfather.

But even today, people with believing parents, grandparents, siblings, turn away from the faith they had as children and follow the ways of the world. My own sons have done this very thing, and it grieves me daily, but the grieving leads me to look up to God and pray for them, believing that God will answer my prayers in His time; believing that He loves them more than I ever could!

Hello again,

So many good comments on this chapter's thread! This chapter is an account of the generations from Adam to Noah (up to the generation of the flood). It starts off with restating the creation of mankind (Adam) and emphasizing that mankind was made in the image of God. Boy, volumes have been written about what the image of God means and was in mankind. it is common thought that the image of God is in each and every person that existed from Adam until the last person God's wishes to be born on earth is born. It never exited the make-up of mankind. There are many theories about what constitutes the image of God. it is a good topic of research and I encourage pursuing such research. I don't wish to speak more to this topic at this time.

Many people commented about whether Adam and Eve were created immortal or were mortal but perfect, needing to eat from the tree of life to continue living. My thought is that the tree of life was there for a good and beneficial reason.

I think that Adam and Eve were created as mortal beings, certainly "above" what we presently are, but in need of God's life-sustaining help. They had that help in the garden before they sinned, but after, the tree of life was made inaccessible to them. Did they need to eat of the tree of life one time to be immortal or daily? Did they ever eat from the tree of life? Don't know. I think that the presence of both trees presented a choice for Adam and Eve. They could choose to eat from the tree of life or the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but not from both. They chose foolishly because they believed the deceiver instead of God, a deadly choice.

Interesting how it says that Seth was begotten after Adam's image, not God's. I concur that this was stated because Adam was created directly by God (a son of God), but Cain/Abel/Seth were begotten after Adam's image through sexual relations between Adam and Eve, not directly by God. The image of God was passed on through human reproduction.

TWO Enochs in the Bible

Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.

The first Enoch was the SON OF CAIN.

He is the father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.

The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). SETH is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.

First Book of Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon. Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.

Justin, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Lactantius, and others borrowed an opinion out of this Book of Enoch, that the angels had connection with the daughters of men, of whom they had offspring (Nephilim: 'the giants of the past'). Tertullian, in several places, speaks of this book with esteem; and would persuade us, that it was preserved by Noah during the deluge. The Book of Enoch, however, was rejected by Origen, Jerome and Augustin as spurious.

[newworldencyclopedia DOT ORG]

Mishael comment: there is Much confusion as to the First Enoch, son of CAIN (who was cursed by God), in Genesis.

Satan seeks to confuse people by causing those who are following to use THE BLOODLINE NAMES of Jesus's Geneology twice.

It helps to find charts made by reputable ministers on Google and compare carefully to the KJV record. Often charts will be disputed by those who dispute the person and Holy Lord Jesus. It all originated in Genesis.

Stay on task and don't incorporate heresy.

To my knowledge the book of Enoch was never included in the KJV since it was only found in the 50s with the death sea scrolls. There are ample mentions of him and his writing throughout the bible though, especially the new testament.

Genesis 5:18-24. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. This and his for the times below average lifespan of three hundred sixty and five years, everyone living about 700-1000 years in those days, mean to me that his life wasn't ended because of death, but because, as it says, God took him after Enoch walking with him, which is perfectly described in the book of Enoch.

Hebrews 11:4-5. 5 makes mention of Enoch, whom by faith was "translated". I interpret this word as him being taken by God, since he was not found due to God having translated him. For before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God, so it says, and this testimony is likely to be his writing. 4 makes mention of Abel speaking even after death, which to my knowledge isn't really explained anywhere else in the bible but is perfectly made sense of in Enoch, where he looks into the depths of the Sheol only to find Abel claiming vengeance for the murdering of him (if someone knows of any passage of the bible which also mentions this I'd be very happy to know).

Lastly, Jude 1:14-15. Must I say any more?

I don't know much about other Apocrypha. I know, superficially, for example, that the deuterocanonical books were instilled by the catholic church and are quite contradictory with the rest of the bible, for the reasons this very same website mentions in its page about the apocrypha. I haven't read them though, so I couldn't know. I recommend the book of Enoch because sufficient mention is made of him to prove its veracity, and that it satisfies the curiosity of us creationists while also explaining, as I said, the nature of malevolence, the giants, of whom David fought one, the Lords cosmology and creation, etc.

Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.

The first Enoch was the son of Cain.

He is described as a son of Cain, and father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.

The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). Seth is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.

Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.

The first Enoch was the son of Cain.

He is described as a son of Cain, and father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.

The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). Seth is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.

First Book of Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon. Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.

Justin, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Lactantius, and others borrowed an opinion out of this Book of Enoch, that the angels had connection with the daughters of men, of whom they had offspring (Nephilim: 'the giants of the past'). Tertullian, in several places, speaks of this book with esteem; and would persuade us, that it was preserved by Noah during the deluge. The Book of Enoch, however, was rejected by Origen, Jerome and Augustin as spurious.

[newworldencyclopedia DOT ORG]

Mishael comment: there is Much confusion as to the First Enoch, son of CAIN (who was cursed by God), in Genesis.

Let's start with scripture.

2 Esdras 6:47-52 your reference

Genesis 1:20-22 * one translation of the Bible I recently read: instead of "whales" says "Monster/s" , Jerusalem Bible translation says"great serpents", NIV says "great creatures " , Jubilee Bible 2000 translation says "And GOD created the great dragons" several other translations say "great sea creatures". = (Huge water creatures.)

My 1st thought is the " dinosaur" namely "Brachiosaurus" & "Brontosaurus" [quotes- for names today?]

Job 40:15 , Job 40:15-24,

Job 41:1-10 Leviathan

Bel and the Dragon 1:23-28

Genesis 5:24, Jude 1:14, Hebrews 11:5,

Linage to CHRIST Luke 3:37

Opinion : Is Enoch symbolism for Huge in The Faith?

You're going to have to do some fancy googling; maybe read some Hebrew history. You can hang out or check tomorrow; CHRIS may already know that date.

Genesis 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 7:13

In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Genesis 5:32

And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 7:9

There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Isaiah 54:9

For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

Genesis 9:28

And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

Genesis 7:6

And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

Genesis 7:11

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Genesis 8:13

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

Genesis 10:1

Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Hebrews 11:5

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

Ecclesiasticus 44:16

"Enoch pleased the Lord, and was translated, being an example of repentance to all generations."

Genesis 5:24

"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."

SO WAS ELIJAH: 2nd Kings Chapter 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2nd Kings 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. (ELISHA was witness of it.)

Adam I have only one question, in Genesis 2:19+20 what part of Adam was so intelligent that he could name every living creature and to this day that is the name of it. Just asking

Hey Adam,

Sorry my post was unclear, traditions and teachings cast a shadow. May the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name lead and guide us. Have a great day.

RLW

Hello RLW, thanks for your comment, but what you said is untrue. Read Genesis 2:16-17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." - these are the words of God. You said God didn't say that, but I'm reading it with my own eyes and can't deny what I'm reading. Do you still hold this opinion that "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying..." is Eve saying it instead of the LORD God as it says?

From the day Adam ate it he was condemned to death. Today, we age and deteriorate until we die. There is no evidence that they aged prior to that. For example, Adam was created as an adult, not a baby.

Adam,

If I may disagree, Adam was earthy, mortal from his creation. ( 1Corinthians 15:47-49). God did not say he would die, that is what Eve said. God said surely die, in Hebrew, the words "surely die" are (mo-wt to-Mut) which are similar words used twice, denoting finality. How can an immortal die? Only in the lake of fire.

Death passed from the first Adam, what death, spiritual, and eternal. We are appointed once to die because we are mortal. What is the penalty of sin is it physical or eternal death? What life do we have in Jesus the last Adam? What scripture says Adam was immortal?

May we walk in the Spirit of truth.

RLW

Hello, actually what God said was true: Adam died. He was immortal before, then after his sin became mortal and died. Some think he also had a spiritual death. God didn't say when he'd die, so people falsely assume it would be within an arbitrary timeframe. You also falsely assumed he would die in the garden. These are both false assumptions based on not on scripture. God bless.

Adam did not die in the garden as God promised because God sacrificed an animal in his place tp clothe him.. A substitutional sacrifice.. Jesus fore runner. God was very specific, when he told Adam on the day that he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, on that day... he would die.. The reason he did not was because an animal died in his place.

Hello Earl,

I see the Old Testament as history and prophecy, history of God working through and in His people (the children of Israel), and prophecy about the coming Messiah. The Hebrew OT is arranged differently than our English Bible and is broken down into three sections: The Law (Torah), which is Genesis through Deuteronomy, The Prophets (Neviim) which is Joshua through Malachi, (minus Ruth, Lamentations, and Daniel) and then the writings (Ketuvim) which is Job through 2 Chronicles (including Ruth, Lamentations & Daniel). As far as the two witnesses, these are (two) people that will be protected by God. And they will be testifying in the streets of Jerusalem for 3-1/2 years.

You are correct in saying that the scripture only speaks of two (Enoch/Elijah) that were taken before experiencing death. But as far as the possibility of a numerous number of others who were possibly translated the same, I cannot entertain that thought.

Brother Jesse, everything in Old Testament was witness of the coming of Christ.

Since we call the Old Testament the law and prophets:

I BELIEVE the two witnesses represent the law and prophets, but the law and prophets are made up of dozens and dozens of saints that had they part in the Spirit's WORK.

As for Enoch and Elijah being translated. Scripture only mentions these two, but there could be innumerable, we don't know. These two are our example, as you said, we are translated the same way.

Food for thought, the Spirit reveals.

Okay, Thanks for your spontaneous feedback and you would be preferring too the two oil trees standing before the God of the earth. Amen

Cynthia,

Neither Enoch nor Elijah saw death before God took them. They were taken from this earth before seeing death, the same way that we (Born again believers) who are alive will be taken when Christ comes for His church. We will be taken the same way God took Enoch and Elijah. Could these possibly be the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation chapter 11? The bible does not tell us the names of the two witnesses but it seems to fit. Why God took them, we are unsure. But I would have to believe that these two men were truly faithful to God in all their ways!

Greetings!

verse 24 says that Enoch walked with mean God took him so why is the answer to question also stating that Eliajah was taking up to do that mean he never seen death on earth too?

What I know is that GOD is from Eternity to Eternity, He has not beginning, neither ending. JESUS is the

beginning, and the ending. In fact, there was an Eternity in the heavenly environment of Eden, countless

millenniums, it could have been billions of years, where inhabited a multitude of angels ruled by a Cherub.

We know that there was a rebellion in the garden of God, the garden of Eden, and after the rebellion there

was a great changing in the primitive nature, a transformation in the nature of all things here on Earth.

After the rebellion the time did run away, and God planned to do a RESTORATION of all things, whose things

God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began as it is revealed in Acts 3:v.21.

There was a gap of around 500 years, a half of millennium, time between the fall of angels to the beginning

of God's work according Genesis 1-the first Day-, at the evening and the morning were the first Day.



As we know, God planned to work seven days to reestitution of all things in six Days and to rest in the seventh

Day, but one Day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day. Now let us see, JESUS

came in the fourth Day or around year 4.000, or in the TURN from the fourth to the fifth Day of God's works

-the Word is God. JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto (fourth Day or year 4.000), and I work- John 5:v.17.

An interesting detail is that God revealed Genesis unto Moses, i.e. His plan of restoration of all things after

two Days and half of work, it was about 2.500 years. Although the Devil has usurped God's creation since Eden,

God still provided a seed for Himself according to His Plan of Restoration of all things. Cain had killed Abel,

so God gave birth to Seth and from this seed a parallel generation was formed- Genesis 5:v.1-32,Check it out-

face to face to the rebels of Eden, these were completely corrupted in a millennium of rebellious-Gen.6:v.1-12, God

sent the Flood.

2 Peter 2:5, declares Noah to be a "preacher of righteousness". However, we're not told how he communicated God's Message to the people, whether during the building of the Ark ( Hebrews 11:7) or at other times. His soul would have been vexed by the wickedness around him, as Lot's was with the Sodomites ( 2 Peter 2:7,8).

Genesis 5:32 shows Noah's age as 500 years old & then when he was 600 years old ( Genesis 7:6), the flood waters came upon the Earth. And somewhere between that time ( Genesis 6:3) God declared that man's days "shall be a hundred & twenty years". I guess that's how the understanding arose about God's time limit for man to take stock of his remaining days.

Genesis 5:29

"And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."

it was easy to grow from the ground before it was cursed.

being justified by faith that is a gift that we didn't labour for.

Chris,

You mentioned the flood. According to the dates of generations listed below, the flood was about 4,369 years ago. Does this list agree with your thinking, creation...in the ball park?

Jared became the father of Enoch at 162. Genesis 5:18 460 + 162 = 622

Enoch became the father of Methuselah at 65. Genesis 5:21 622 + 65 = 687

Methuselah became the father of Lamech at 187. Genesis 5:25 687 + 187 = 874

Lamech became the father of Noah at 182. Genesis 5:28 874 + 182 = 1056

The Flood started when Noah was 600. Genesis 7:6 1056 + 600 = 1656

Calculated BC date for creation: 4004

Calculated AM date for the Flood: -1656

Calculated BC date for the Flood: 2348

Current Year (minus one): +2021

Number of years since beginning of Flood: 4369

God bless

Genesis 5

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he (Adam) begat sons and daughters:

As was nothing in Genesis 4 that requires that Cain met people in the land and married into their clans.

We don't know if Cain and Abel had any other siblings at the time of Abel's murder, but we do know from Genesis 5:4, that Adam and Even had other sons and daughters.

It is not at all unreasonable to think that as the population of the world increased they spread out from around Eden into other lands. (NOD). All the members of the first generation would have married siblings or children of siblings. The genetic mutations we are concerned about now would not have been a problem, only after generations would mutations have crept into the gene pool and the danger of close intermarriage (consanguinity) come into being. In the first generations after Adam and Eve, human population would only have increased by FAMILIAL intermarriage.

Mishael comment: the gene pool was so new and strong, that (incest) was able to withstand genetic weaknesses and disease that it causes in our present time.

In fact, it is not until the book of LEVITICUS that we find it forbidden to marry siblings, half sibling and in laws.

Where did Cain find a wife? In the gap between Cain's banishment and Cain's marriage, ( Genesis 5:4). Adam and Eve had more children, probably many more children. We don't know how much TIME PASSED before Cain took a wife, but it's possible that Adam and Eve's children married and had children.

Cain probably married a sister, or maybe a niece. His wife came from the only available population of humans: the descendants of his parents Adam and Eve.

Mishael

The Bible does not speculate where Cain got his wife.

The Bible says that Adam and Eve had many children.

Genesis 5:4 "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat SONS AND DAUGHTERS:"

Obviously, one of those daughters eventually met up with Cain and they got married. God permitted that at the beginning of creation and since man was still close to Adamic perfection, this did not cause birth abnormalities. It is the only way that humans, at the beginning, would have been able to procreate - they had to marry their bother or sister.

In fact, we do the very same thing today, really. We are 1 large human family and we all have Adam as our father. When we marry a fellow human being, we are really marrying our brother or sister.

Kindly.

Good day.

Good day my brothers Earl and Spencer,

As I would like to put my perception on "Heaven". I myself believe Heaven to be an actual place. Not just in us as stated in Luke 17:21. As we are the tabernacles of God where He dwells when we receive His Holy Spirit. Even as God is life and in everything weather Blessed to receive the Spirit of Christ or not. Job 34:14-15.

The Holy Bible is a spiritual book though many, many, things are literal not just spiritual. God's wisdom is so divine that almost anything may be taken in both ways. For maybe a reason God knows why.

Some things to consider I find fascinating. How both Enoch and Elijah were literally taken up by God in there human bodies and never saw a physical death. Genesis 5:24, 2 Kings 2:11-12. I believe Elisha literally saw a chariot of fire. In the book of Enoch there are amazing things we truly cannot comprehend.

14:8 A vision thus appeared to me.

14:9 Behold, in that vision clouds and a mist invited me; agitated stars and flashes of lightning impelled and pressed me forwards, while winds in the vision assisted my flight, accelerating my progress.

14:10 They elevated me aloft to Heaven. I proceeded, until I arrived at a wall built with stones of crystal. A vibrating flame surrounded it, which began to strike me with terror.

Paul stating about a friend with a vision in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. That he could not fully explain.

Also that Jesus Christ in His glorified body( Luke 24:39) was able to appear and disappear. Also He was taken up into the clouds Acts 1:9-11.

Fully understanding Heaven we are not to able. It is so beyond us it could be anything as nothing is impossible with God.

I could go on and on about this but would be a very long conversation. Maybe just adding some people with NDE's having out of body experiences, in the spirit, able to testify of things going on when they were dead. Seeing their own bodies of flesh before them. Being taken up to be in the presence of the Lord.

Glorious

Genesis 5:4 "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:"

According to this verse Adam begat multiple sons and daughters. Eventually, one of these daughters met up with Cain and married him.

LIONel,

This information is not recorded in The Bible. We know that Noah started having son when he was 500 and he completed the ark when he was 600. I would think that he needed his sons to gather the materials and build the ark.