Discuss Hebrews 10 Page 17

Rich - in Reply on Hebrews 10 These are all excellent comments; and they make my heart feel good. It is not easy sometimes; but always put your faith in the lord. You pray to the lord by yourself but usually you always pray with others; at least one other; and I don't know where and when you accepted the Lord as your saviour; but when we do that; we usually go to the church where we got saved or back to the church of our parents and or where we were named or baptized. The ideas is once we accept the Lord; we usually hang around with others with strong faith in God; Our Father in Heaven as you say in the lord's prayer, which I say often and a lot of other christians do; what I did 50 years ago or more is make a commitment to carry a small Bible in my wallet; and I always followed that commitment; and I also later carry a special bigger small Bible that, I had a sentimental attachment to, on my belt; but then another person who was having some issues I thing related to his family asked me for the one on my belt; and I gave it to him although I did not want to; but then when he saw it was from someone; he said no don't give me that one as that must be special to you; and so I gave him the old almost deteriorated one that he wanted but now i have two small ones along with the old back cover back of my old 50 year one. So what you could do is go some where where you can find another Christian; preferable a priest or minister and I know that some may have a bad reputation from the past; however, most of them would never do that today; but the main thing is your faith; and they are use to dealing with people; and sometimes also; if you have other issues; then it may be time to get help there; and a priest or minister and or another man of God and family usually can help there; but what ever you do; don't ever lose faith in God; know that He loves you; and his word is that He will always stand by us, we must never give up, Others can help us c He is there. So, why not go C

Rich,

I think there are many believers who at one point or another have had that same feeling of doubt about their salvation. I know I have. Is it possible that you are trying to deal with your circumstances on your own, and not trusting in the Lord? Once a person receives Christ, they need to be mended. We come to the Lord broken, and we call out to Him to save us, and to mend us. Our past will never leave us. It will always be stuck in the cortex of our brain. But we have to trust Christ. Being mended is a lifetime process my friend. But Christ will mend you. You just have to trust Him. There are some things you said that stand out. You say you don't feel you have that closeness with the Lord that you used to have, your prayers feel like they are not getting through, and don't feel saved. You used the word "feel" three times. Those are fleshly terms, not spiritual. Feelings are human senses and emotions. How do you feel Spirit? You can't feel Spirit. Whether or not you "feel" saved, you're still saved. You don't have to feel anything to know you are saved. If you truly from your heart called out to the Lord to come into your life, and to save you, His promise in Romans 10:13 is that He promised to save you. As far as your prayers getting through, if you ask anything according to His will (Not yours), that prayer will always be answered. Listen to this, cut it out and put it on your refrigerator if you need to: Prayer is the means by which you express your submission to God's will in whatever you are asking Him for, and knowing that He will always answer that prayer.

Whether or not you feel saved, you are. Christ is in you (If you received Him). He will never leave you. You are eternally secure in Him. All you have to do is trust Him. You're relationship with Jesus Christ will never change. You might break fellowship with Him, but you can call out to Him to restore that any time. But your relationship as a child of God will never change! Salvation is eternal!

I understand what you are saying and i have repented and turn away from the life i was living but for the first time in years i am alcohol and drug free and every sin i have ever done is coming back to haunt me, I guess what i am saying even though i don't feel have that closeness with the Lord i used to have and my prayers feel like they are not getting through, so without that closeness am i still saved? Because i don't feel saved.

(Part 2)

I hope you understand what this verse is saying. Jesus Christ was the final sacrifice for sin. There is no more sacrifice for sin. Those Hebrew people who were being enlightened to the truth had to choose between accepting Christ's final sacrifice for sin, or going turning away and going back to their own sacrificing.

Please know this. If you have received Christ (Been born of His Spirit), He lives inside of you. He promised to never leave you, nor forsake you. You are eternally secure in Christ if you have been born of His Spirit. Also understand, that even though you're saved, you will sin. As long as you live in a body of flesh, you will sin. However, you will be unable to live a lifestyle of sin because Christ's Spirit in you will not allow you to do so. There will be conviction. You will commit single acts of sin, but it is impossible for a saved person to live a lifestyle of sin, their former lifestyle before receiving Christ.

Please do not be troubled in heart. If you have Christ, you'll always have Christ. He's not leaving you!

Rich,

I'm going to have to break this up. I would like to share this with you in hope that it might ease your mind. There are some who use Hebrews 10:26 to show that a person can lose their salvation. That is not what this verse is saying. Hebrews 10:26 says "For if we sin willfully, that is, we go back to serving the principle of sin, after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

If you go back to Chapter 6, those who were enlightened, that are no longer coming for fellowship, just because they were enlightened doesn't mean they're saved. The Lord can enlighten someone as to the knowledge of the truth, they know the truth, they have seen the truth, they understand the truth, but have never surrendered their life to Christ.

Now if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. This is what the writer is saying. He's talking to Hebrew people who were following along and being enlightened to the truth about Christ. But when it came time for them to make a decision to give up Judaism and surrender their life to Christ, many of them would leave because of the price they would have to pay. If they received Christ, they would be banned from their own temple, they would lose their jobs, their family would disown them. So they chose to go back into Judaism because surrendering to Christ would be too hard. The writer is telling them that if they go back into old Judaism, you're not going to find any sacrifice there that's going to take care of your sin problem if you leave Christ.

More to follow.

Also, Rich, verses 10:26-39 is a warning dealing with the sin of apostasy, an intentional falling away. He is NOT talking about himself or genuine believers. I recommend getting a Study Bible, as they explain many, many things in the Bible we may not understand. I LOVE mine. David Jeremiah's study Bible is excellent, I have that one & also John Macarthur's.

What immediately came to my mind is

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. (Also continue on thru 2:2) The fear you feel is NOT from God, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind. 11 Timothy 1:7 But satan, the liar who comes to kill, steal & destroy has gripped you. Cast off his lies IN JESUS NAME!!!!! I pray this helps to bring His peace into your soul. Get into the Word & see what God says, then you'll know the truth, & satan's lies will be more obvious to you.

Stay a while in 1 John and his other books.

In 1 John 2:1 it says that if you sin and Satan drags you up before the Throne of God, you have an ADVOCATE (sitting at Gods right arm). Jesus, your Advocate and attorney. He checks the Lambs Book of Life, sees your name written in it, and your case is dismissed for lack of evidence. Your sins have been blotted out with His blood.

It doesn't mean we can run amok and sin all over the place. We are to put ourselves in the Holy Spirits leadership, teaching; conviction when we do sin.

Fear hath torments. That's a demon with many little demons. It's their job to shake your faith in Jesus. The spirit of death causes some people to take their lives. They know they have no rights to do any of that to a Jesus trusting Christian.

In 1 John 1:9 you will learn to run to the Cross if you do sin and confess; be forgiven; renewed. I go there a lot.

We are washed clean by constantly renewing our minds with the Word of God. Your Bible. If we don't furnish our "homes" with Bible teaching; prayer: demons come back around to see if you have an opening for them. You can make them leave!

Say what you've learned: IT IS WRITTEN... and speak your scripture that you've planted in your heart.

You'll get so strong that you'll be able to help other people get freed as well.

Now go read Romans 8:1-2. Read all of Rom. 8. Read Book of John 8:32

You did good coming here :)

Hebrews 10 vs 26-27 say if we sin willfully, does that mean if we sin on purpose deliberately with Full knowledge of what we are doing, we can never turn to repentance? Is the rest of our lives spent with foreboding and fear knowing hell is our destination? Because I cant seem to find Jesus anymore from the very second I wake up until I finally go to sleep I'm in fear , I have absolutely no joy in my life, I do my best to lead others to Christ but inside I feel like I've made an eternal mistake, and I dont want anyone else to make it

This train doesn't carry backsliders! Must sill check oneself and repent and ask for forgiveness on bended knees.

Chris, following up on where I left off. As you point out, Hebrews 10:5 "speaks of the temporary, deficient & incompleteness of the sacrificial system & that only God's offering would accomplish God's Purposes." So, the logical conclusion is that if:

1. God prepared a body for Christ

2. And He prepared that human body before creation ( 2 Tim 1:9)

3. And God created mankind in His image

4. Then, can we conclude God created man so Christ could have a human body in His image?

Or was it accidental? God either created man in His image on purpose and with a purpose, or the body for Christ was a convenient accident. Wasn't the Law, to include sacrifices, set up by God as a Shadow of what was to come? If the Law was a Shadow, what was it a Shadow of? For there to be a Shadow, there has to be a real object that casts that Shadow. And which comes first, the shadow or the object that casts that Shadow? Col 2:17. And if a Shadow, when was that Shadow cast? When God used an animal to clothe Adam and Eve? When Abel offered a better sacrifice than Cain? Or when Abraham offered his son on the altar?

We see from these Scriptures, I hope, the Shadow of Christ's Sacrifice was cast prior to anything being created. Heb 8:5. Consequently, is it fair to conclude that both the Shadow and the object that casts that Shadow, Christ, were for Christ to enter the world as the True Sacrificial Lamb? Col 2:17, Isa 49:6, 51:5.

Isaiah 40:3 sounds the call to prepare the way for the Lord. You said, "It does not speak of man being created to open the way for Christ to come & be his Sacrifice." But if the call is not to man, who is the call to? Who was to come? A man. Why did God make man in His image? Because an animal could not meet the needs only the Man Christ could satisfy.

And when did Christ start casting the Shadow? He started casting the Shadow back to the beginning of time, from the 1st Century Cross, to before creation. John 8:58. Which came 1st, Man, Shadow or Christ?

Hi Chris,

part 3:

> if the 'Christian' persists in wilful sin, then he hasn't been saved in the first place

This seems like a tough position to take, because it appears to contradict itself at every angle. For example: what/who is a Christian, to you? Can you give a precise and reliable definition of a Christian?

What if someone you believe is a Christian who meets the criteria you believed was set for one later turned out to turn away from Christ and continue in willful sin as it says in Hebrews 10:26 then you say they were never a Christian in the first place, but why weren't they? I know of Christians who are husbands, dads, pastors, youth ministers, worship leaders, who have each turned from Christianity. There's even a forum online for ex-Christians who have left the faith. So, you say they never were Christian in the first place even after all they did as Christians. So, does that mean someone who only responds to an altar call and prays and gives their heart to Jesus isn't Christian either? What exactly is a Christian?

Even angels in heaven (they're already in heaven) have freewill to sin and turn from God. If even angels have freewill while in heaven, of course mankind does on Earth when God specifically gave mankind the freedom to choose good or evil, to choose love or hate. We're not robots. Just like if you're a dad it's more meaningful if your son/daughter voluntarily says 'I love you', God gave us freewill to choose if we want to be with him or not, to love Him or not, to obey Him or not. It's our choice and we'll also be judged. I suppose if you believe you "can't" sin that doesn't jibe with judgment day either. If we're already saved, what's the point of being judged for our actions?

Secondly, it sounds like you don't believe Christians have freewill if you they can't sin. To say we don't have freewill is to contradict other verses.

Part 2:

The second observation is your quote:

How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Impossible, the Spirit could never allow for such an attitude or interpretation;

The first part is a scripture Romans 6:2, but your 2nd sentence is not in the Bible. It does not say that after Romans 6:2 and I don't believe a Christian sinning is impossible. Even Paul admits to sin and all Christians sin, so to claim Christians can't sin seems inconsistent with the Bible. Here are a few examples:

-Much of Jesus's teachings were to his existing followers, including many warnings to not go astray and to 'do things'. If all his Christian followers were already saved then why would Jesus ask them to keep doing things? Why change at all? Why even preach the gospel? Why have a Bible? Why try? I have never heard anyone who believes OSAS have a clear answer for this. If Christians don't need to avoid sin because they're saved regardless why would anything in the Bible even matter? It does matter, because the Bible clearly says obeying God is important. If you don't obey then you don't love Jesus and aren't following Jesus much.

-Most of Jesus's parables were about how most people will go to hell and how to avoid it. Jesus called people to put forth effort, to change, to take action. If taking action wasn't important or even related to salvation then why would Jesus keep saying it was like in Matthew 7:21? This verse would have to be reinterpreted, discredited, or thrown out to believe that obeying God is bad. Is God likely to say that obeying him is bad or is satan more likely to say that?

-Judas was a Christian and he betrayed Jesus and died a horrible death and likely went to hell.

-People are given freewill. We're not robots. The Bible already says all sin. Anyone claiming Christians can't sin is claiming we don't have freewill. Hebrews 10:26.

Hi Chris, just noticed your comment...

>If I seek to obey any of God's Laws, including the Sabbath, then I am judged by the Law & voluntarily exempt myself from salvation by Grace & not the Law.

Jesus disagrees with this in John 14:15. Jesus directly says if you love him you will keep his commandments (law). If you don't obey, then you don't love Jesus. If someone doesn't love or follow Jesus then they likely won't be invited to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

James 2 explains how grace and works work together. Its possible what you were trying to say is actually from James 2:10, but it doesn't say what you wrote. If you read on it clearly supports doing good works. No where in the Bible does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God or Jesus. It says the opposite throughout.

I watch out for anyone claiming good works are 'bad', as if following Jesus and his commands are bad. But somehow that not worrying about following Jesus's commands is 'ok' despite the exact words Jesus said that say the opposite. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Calling good bad sounds awfully familiar as if it comes a deceiver.

If you pursue Christ you are a Christian under grace, but following Him is an activity involving effort. It's not human effort that saves anyone, but it should be the natural fruit of loving Jesus. Many call themselves Christians and don't love Jesus, because they don't obey, and they will be surprised in the end just as Jesus predicted: Revelation 3:16 and Matthew 7:21 and Hebrews 10:26.

Hebrews 10:25

1 Corinthians 14:26

1 Thess. 5:11

Matthew 28:20

Deuteronomy 31:12-13

There's five reasons. It's much more powerful if the church is well attended for Corporate Prayer (in case you're sick or struggling in some area.)

We who believe to the saving of the souls shall be able to do this because of the Lord preparing the way before us as when we by faith accepted the truth of the price paid by His blood. We were chosen though unworthy so that in the time appointed we would fall back into faith and choose salvation of the soul.

Have I read the whole chapter? That doesn't deserve an answer. But let's look at Hebrews 10:26. First of all, the book was written to the Jews, Hebrew people. It was not written to the church. For a Jew or Hebrew person to turn away from Judaism and receive Christ meant severe persecution would follow. "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins." Receiving knowledge of the truth doesn't save a person. Did you ever notice in the gospels that whenever huge crowds would follow Jesus, and He would turn around and preach truth to them, they would leave? They received knowledge/ truth from Christ, but they turned away. "Oh, I'm going to suffer if I surrender to you? I'm out of here!"

Do you see what the writer is telling them? You received the truth about salvation, but if you turn back to Judaism because it is easier than surrendering to Christ because of persecution, there is no more sacrifice for your sin.

Hi Jesse, is your position that Christians never commit blasphemy of the holy spirit? or that they are incapable to? or they don't have the freewill to?

The Bible says even angels in heaven sinned, because they too have freewill in heaven. Humans have the same freewill, and Christians have the same freewill, do they not? Unfortunately some Christians have turned to evil and denounced faith in Jesus and committed blasphemy of the holy spirit, do you recognize this? Judas did that.

What is your reason for living life as a Christian or trying to be obedient to Jesus, if it has nothing to do with going to heaven?

Hebrews 10:26 You said doesn't refer to salvation, except it does. Have you read the whole chapter? How do you feel about James 2:17-26 or John 14:15, or Luke 12:9?

Many verses say Christians are to be obedient, but are you saying obedience or transforming isn't needed to enter heaven? Do you think there's no downside to Christians following the world of sin? Romans 12:2

Adam, let's look at Mark 3:28-30, the unpardonable sin. V.29, Jesus says, But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: He's not talking about Christians. Verse 30 says, Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Who are "they?" Not Christians. If you back up to Verse 22, you see who Jesus is giving the warning to. Blaspheming means to express rejection. When the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin, and their need of Christ, if they reject the testimony, their sins will not be forgiven. Christians receive the testimony, they don't reject it. Why use Hebrews 10:26? It has nothing to do with losing salvation. You're free to believe that you yourself can lose your own salvation, but you shouldn't be trying to convince those who are trusting in God's that they can lose theirs. Instead of looking for verses that seem to indicate you can lose your salvation, I would try finding the verses that indicate you can't!

Hello, the Bible refutes that with these 2 verses and more. A Christian who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit clearly isn't forgiven and won't go to heaven, because that's what Jesus said. He warned Christians about this in the Bible: Mark 3:28-30. Hebrews 10:26. How can anyone claim that a Christian who deliberately turns their back on God and permanently denounces Jesus is still saved? It seems that Jesus's own words would have to be ignored to come to such a conclusion. John 14:15. Why would Jesus tell his Christian followers to obey Him if they were already saved and if it made no difference if they obeyed or not? Why does this Matthew 7:21 reference say also to obey if you don't have to? Clearly these verses paint a different picture than the one satan is painting trying to convince Christians that its ok to disobey and sin all you want with no consequence. One of these beliefs is true and the other is false. Satan is the father of lies and may be behind one of them- which is more likely, that satan is deceiving Christians into being unnecessarily obedient, or that he's deceiving Christians into believing it's ok to be disobedient?

(continuing comment). How precious is our salvation then: this gift that we hang onto tenaciously in a life of godliness & love. Rom 5:20 "..But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound", i.e. there is not too great a sin that God's Grace cannot cover.

All Scripture pertaining to the Mercy of God granted to us through His Son, shows us that we don't have license to sin because of the Grace afforded us. Heb 10:26 speaks of those who were apparently saved, or at least, believed themselves to be, & rejected Christ forever, preferring the offerings of the world. Then there are those who firmly believe that once we are saved, our subsequent carelessness in life, doesn't void our salvation & eternal life. But Phil 2:12: "...work out your own salvation with fear & trembling"; i.e. now that you are saved, keep close tabs on your new life with great seriousness. 1 Pet 4:18 "and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly & sinner appear"; i.e. we are saved by the "skin of our teeth". (see following comment).

I take it to mean that God's grace is not a l license to sin.

I would add: the readers of Hebrews were Messianic Jews, living in Jerusalem & were being encouraged during persecution. The key verse re: Rebeca's question, is verse 26: "If we sin wilfully...". In Greek, this is written in the present, active tense; i.e. "If we go on sinning, or making it a continual habit". We understand by the Spirit's Work in our salvation, that it is a complete & perfect Work; i.e. we are not only forgiven completely but for all time & given the Power to live our new life. We can still sin, but the Spirit within checks us to draw us to repentance. But if we reject His pleas & prefer our 'other' lifestyle, then the question: were we even saved at all? God is our Judge.

This is not talking about a believer losing their salvation. The writer is speaking to unsaved Jews and telling them that if people died under the wrath of God for just violating the law of Moses, they will suffer greater punishment if they reject the Son of God, or consider the blood of the New Covenant of Christ to be an unholy thing, or insult the Holy Spirit when He comes and ministers the gospel of grace to them. This passage is talking about Jews who were hearing the message of salvation, but did not take the next step of receiving Christ for salvation, because if they did, they would be persecuted by their fellow Jews, kicked out of the temple, and even ostracized by their own kin.

In Hebrews 10.29, the writer anticipates a "much sorer punishment." Some throughout history have interpreted this as a loss of salvation and an eternity in hell (lake of fire). Is this accurate? If so, how do we reconcile this with verses dealing with security? If not, what does the passage teach?

I needed to hear this. Thank you!

I disagree. Acts 2:38 we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in baptism when repent of our sins. Of course we continue to sin. We're in the flesh. Sin is a transgression of the law. Lying, talking bad about someone, thinking bad thoughts about others. But we have the Holy Spirit that helps guide us and our consciences are pricked and we pray and ask Gods forgiveness for that sin and ask for prayers for spiritual strength to overcome that weakness in ourselves. It'snot easy living in such a corrupt society as ours is and keep our thoughts and minds as they should be. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation.

The reason he said their sin and iniquity i will remember no more. is beacuse he did away with the first (flesh) law by works to estblish the 2nd(spirit) law in your mind hearts. romans 12:2 do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of the mind gods children have stopped sinning is we have become a new creation. he came in the flesh and died and rose up in the spirit. and gods children our walking in the light and truth. we have entered into gods rest we stopped relying on our flesh dead works as something to earn eternal life we now trust in his son jesus said it is finished its already been done for us. we just live by faith faith in his son. amen

When Jesus warned the Disciples about Sin Adam they were not yet Born Again of God's Seed, 1Jn3:9 Pentecost had not come Jesus told them to wait untill The Holy Ghost Empowered them to share the Gospel. Like the Old Testerment Saints they had the Promise but not the reality like we do now. Gods Full Plan of Salvation confirms fully with Scripture we do not continue to Sin when we are Born Again.