Discuss Hebrews 10 Page 9

Regarding Hebrews 8:5 = GOD commanded Moses to construct the Old Testament Tabernacle as the instrument of HIS presenting HIMSELF to Israel ( Exo. 25:22; cp. 30:6 & 36):

"There I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the Mercy Seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the Ark of the Testimony, of all things which I will give thee in Commandment unto the children of Israel."

This verse ( Heb. 8:5) records three terms which demonstrate the purpose and value of the Old Testament Levitical Priesthood and of the Tabernacle that GOD commanded Moses to replicate on earth. These terms provide a comprehensive perspective "figure" ( Heb. 9:9) of that which is "of Heavenly Things".

1st, they served as "the example of Heavenly Things", meaning an exact copy or reproduction of the original and "True Tabernacle, which The LORD pitched, and not man" (v.2). Compare the terms "figure", "pattern", and "fashion" in the following references: Exodus 26:30; 27:8; Numbers 8:4; Acts 7:44; and Hebrews 9:9;

By design, the example demonstrates the purpose and value of the original. This example is not a counterfeit, but rather a replication of the actual Heavenly Tabernacle which speaks of the saints dwelling in the very Presence of CHRIST ( Rev. 13:6; 15:5; 21:3).

2nd, they served as a "shadow of Heavenly Things", meaning it only typified, symbolized, represented, and pointed to the Heavenly Tabernacle. A literal shadow is intangible which reveals simply the outline or profile of the actual object. The earthly Tabernacle simply revealed "a figure for the time then present."

3rd, they served as GOD's earthly "pattern" which was enforced only temporarily until CHRIST established HIS "more Excellent Ministry" (v.6) as exclaimed in Hebrews 10:9-12.

Hi Brother Dan.

I hear often how simple scripture is to understand bur yet the Bible is the most debated collection of books ever.

Flesh is what Satan works with to confuse, that's why Jesus says John 8:43-47. also

John 10:27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

They don't become his sheep by following him. They follow him "because they hear his voice " And he lay them down in green pasture. You'll see the results in fruit barring. Something the Law and those who desire to be under it cannot do.

Jesus/truth is a stumblingblock unto them.

Touching scripture Jesus says

John 5:38-39.

And the writer to the Hebrews-

Hebrews 10:7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Jesus came to minister reconciliation by means of "GRACE by faith" to a lost and condemned world. This grace is emphasized all through scripture and climax at the cross.

Romans 4:11.And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

Hebrews 10:5-9. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

This is revealed in the heart of those who believe.

Any message deviates from this reveals the blindness mentioned.

God bless.

Hello, it sounds like you're looking for a severity scale of sin. Scriptures don't seem to distinguish much between severity of sin (aside from blasphemy of the holy ghost). All sin is very bad. God hates sin. Some may try to deceive us into thinking some 'aren't that bad', but that is just temptation and attempts to justify it. We can't really be a Jesus follower and make plans to commit sin either. That act shows someone isn't a genuine follower as evidenced by this verse: Hebrews 10:26. 1 John 5:17, 1 John 1:9, James 4:7. God bless.

Hi Catherine. I think you're referring to what is commonly termed, 'Oneness Pentecostalism', or more familiarly, 'Jesus Only Movement'. That is a particular branch of pentecostalism that is not widely accepted even amongst pentecostals. As you asked, "anyone here Believe "Jesus IS God"?" Many of us here would agree with you with that statement, but I also know that Oneness teaching is that the Triune God is manifested in Heaven as Jesus only - to this most would disagree.

The primary reason for my disagreement would be, that Jesus, whether on Earth or in Heaven, is seen as distinct from His Father - Father God never disappears or is infused in His Son. While on Earth, Jesus always spoke to His Father (John chapter 17 is but one example). And after His Resurrection & Ascension back into Heaven, we read that He is at the Father's right Hand ( Acts 7:55; Colossians 3:1; Luke 22:69; Hebrews 10:12; etc.). So with all these before us in God's Word, it would be difficult to argue for three separate Beings within the Godhead, being found in the one Jesus.

I would be quite happy if you wanted to present your case to show otherwise - you won't be considered a trouble-maker - but a sister who wants to express her belief from the Scriptures & from experience. And the matters of being water baptized only in Jesus' Name and speaking in tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, have been discussed at length here as well. To find those discussions, go to the Advanced Search, typing in (e.g. tongues, water baptism) & then click on 'Discussions' - hopefully you'll get an idea of what has been discussed already. And you'll even find some who are in agreement with your understanding of these topics.

Hi "Failure". The Scriptures are clear about believers in Christ no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh but walking (receptive, in harmony) with the Spirit in you ( Galatians 5:16,17: "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would"; Romans 8:13,14).

When we live in the flesh, i.e. leading lives that are habitually given over to sin, unconcerned about dealing with it by the power of the Holy Spirit, then we would be right in questioning the genuineness of our faith & love for God. But the battle is always on: the lusts of the flesh vs the desires to live to please God. When we're fully convinced that we'd rather live for God & not for sin & seeking the help & power of the Spirit, then His Power will be greater than our weakness. The fact that we do sin now, is simply because we enjoy the sin or want to pursue it. If we remain guarded, very rarely will sin overtake us suddenly, especially in the more overt sins that involve others. Even drunkenness, gluttony, gossip, lying, pride, etc. are all sins that we might want to do & hold dear to us & our make-up. But when we hate those sins, we will seek to take hold of the Spirit to combat them & more so, when we see the sin knocking at our door. The Spirit is there to empower us - to withstand the temptation to give in. We can also overcome that sin by pursuing another course, e.g. move away from that situation or person, replace the temptation with something good/wholesome, going straight into the Word & prayer. The Lord is always there - it's our choice to whom we appeal to: to fleshly desires or to the spirit ( Romans 6:16-23).

Hebrews 10:26. If you read the whole chapter, the sin being spoken of is about those from Judaism who want to appeal to the old sacrifices instead of Christ's Sacrifice (v29) - it doesn't work - that's sin.

What about in Hebrews 10:26 where is states, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." and in Galatians 5:19-21 where it states, " Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

WHEN WAS THE GOSPEL SET IN MOTION? OR PERHAPS THOUGHT OF.

Here's a few scriptures perhaps something to help or give thought to several topics.

1 Peter 1:19-21.

I make this 1st Scripture a significant point of interest because if all get saved in the end regardless then that renders the word Salvation obsolete. So we righteously argue that if that was the case why spill the blood of our Precious Lord as Brother Chris has stated?

I believe here's another factor when combining the above verse with this one.

Hebrews 10:7.

Psalms 40:7.

I believe When considering all scripture it ties some way or another to the Lord's redemption plan.

Sense the plan of salvation was drawn up before the foundation of the world and the volume of the book is written of Christ it don't only render salvation obsolete it render the volume of the book obsolete.

We would no longer have scripture to reason with.

Part 2.

Also when considering the 2 trees in the Garden we must consider this redemption plan was purposed to come by Christ before either of these trees were made! And also consider the volume of the book was written of Christ. I believe that eating of the tree of life has its role in this as well! Atleast in a way to set the plan in motion.

" My thought here is inconclusive "

But here is why I mentioned it. Look at the results from eating of the tree.

Genesis 3:21. I believe this significant piece of scripture is part of the volume of the book mentioned and the first blood atonement sacrifice pointing ahead to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39.

God bless.

These are actual questions people asked about WHEN is Sabbath. Find one answer for them thst everyone agrees on__Mishael

Google Questions about Sabbath=

What day is the true Sabbath day?

What does the Sabbath mean today?

What did Jesus say about the Sabbath day?

What happens if you don't observe the Sabbath?

Does the Bible say the Sabbath is on Saturday?

Why do we go to church on Sunday and not Saturday?

How is the Sabbath observed?

What are we supposed to do on the Sabbath day?

Why is it important to observe the Sabbath?

What religions observe the Sabbath on Saturday?

Is it okay to work on the Sabbath?

Is Sunday a pagan day of worship?

What does the Bible say about going to church every Sunday?

[The Jewish Sabbath-Shabbat in Hebrew, Shabbos in Yiddish-is observed every week beginning at sunset on Friday evening and ending after dark on Saturday evening. For religiously observant Jews, Shabbat is as important as any other holy day. Orthodox Jews do not work or travel on Shabbat.]

[Is the Lord's day the Sabbath or Sunday?

The Lord's Day in Christianity is generally Sunday, the principal day of communal worship. It is observed by most Christians as the weekly memorial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is said in the canonical Gospels to have been witnessed alive from the dead early on the first day of the week.]

Hebrews 10:25

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Hello Natashya,

You might consider reading this: Matthew 18:21-22 Also the parable of the talents after that is also about forgiveness. The summary of this is: Matthew 6:14.

As a Christian following in the footsteps of Jesus our sins are covered by grace as long as we are choosing to follow Jesus. 70x7 basically means a LOT and nearly unlimited. If we're genuinely following Jesus we can have assurance of salvation. But messing up is one thing, but deliberately sinning is another. Hebrews 10:26.

Jesus throughout the Bible challenges everyone including believers to avoid sin. Over and over He said that. The problem is some assume that when they become a Christian you can stop what you're doing, because they believe they're already 'saved' and can commit unlimited sin and evil pleasure they desire and not worry about any consequences. Some even say its bad to do good, because you're putting in 'human effort'. Beware of lies aimed and distorting God's truth. I believe scriptures say the opposite: I believe when you become a Christian you START your journey towards Jesus and work towards developing your character to be more and more like Jesus and a key part of this is NOT SINNING! So, some believe they can and should put zero effort into this 0 of 10. But I believe we should put max effort into this: 10 of 10.

John 14:15,

2 Peter 1:5 says to be diligent. One translation says 'make every effort'

Luke 13:24 says to 'strive to enter through the narrow door'

2 Timothy 2:15 'do your best'

Luke 6:46 - don't call Jesus Lord and fail to do what He says

There are verses about entering God's rest, but I believe it means a spiritual rest and not physical where we're just sitting on the couch all day binge drinking and eating. The Bible says we'll be persecuted for our beliefs, that this is not our world, and we're to run the race as to receive the prize. All this suggests great effort in my opinion, but we're not saved from that effort, but by grace.

God bless...

Brother Earl. You stated the following: "they don't BELIEVE that ALL MEN are God's CHURCH". I don't believe it either. God's Church, or Christ's Church, comprise only those saved by the Blood of the Lamb. If they include the wicked & unrepentant as well as those entering into salvation & its blessings with unbelief in their hearts, then that brings shame on Christ's Work towards salvation & makes the Cross meaningless. If Christ "draws all men unto Him", then the only ones who are accepted of the Father are those of whom He spoke, "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." ( John 12:47,48). And God's Judgement is certain, final, & eternal - no second chances to those who die without Christ ( Hebrews 9:27; Hebrews 10:27-29).

"Judah was the only one that had five brothers, so this (reference in Luke 16:27,28) was addressed to the house of JUDAH, creation is the PROMISED SEED of the house of JUDAH." If the reference is to Judah's five brothers, then what is Judah doing sitting in hell in torments? Hopefully, the Jews didn't realize that Jesus was talking about Judah in hell & his five brothers about to enter there as well.

"since Christ is the church, and Christ is creation's brother". Not sure how you work out that Christ is creation's brother. Christ is indeed the Church ( Colossians 1:18,24), but He is also the Creator without familial relationship to His Creation ( Colossians 1:15-17). He does love His creation, but the only brothers He has, are those whom He has purchased with His Own Blood ( Acts 20:28).

Hi Richard.

HE'S GOING TO WRITE HIS LAWS ON THEIR HEARTS.

Jeremiah 31:31. As it reads God is going to make a new covenant with the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:32 The Lord says this new covenant won't be like the old covenant that he gave their fathers, ( On Mount Sinai by Moses. )

Note: "A Mount that could not be touched"

Jeremiah 31:33-34. Tell us what the New covenant shall be. And how it will function!!

"I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

" Not on tables of Stone "

You see an example of this in

2 Corinthians 3:3.

This new covenant is NOT where they were bond to a law in which they could not keep because of the weakness of the flesh.

See Romans 8:3-4.

That Covenant and tabernacle was a shadow of the (TRUE) tabernacle.

( Hebrews 8:2. A minister of the sanctuary, and of the TRUE tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.)

See Hebrews 8:1-13.

See Hebrews 9:1-28.

See Hebrews 10:8-17.

THE ENERGY BEHIND THE DESIRE TO KEEPING THE LAW BEHIND THIS COVENANT WASN'T COMMANDMENT,

This covenant is set in motion and Moved by the Holyspirit. This is an inward action not an outward one.

This New Covenant is what the Old covenant/Law pointed to.

Note with both Covenants in view.

Galatians 4:23-28. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

God bless.

Dear Earl,

I didn't understand your response to the topic at hand. It seemed to avoid the main question about what we're saved from, but that's ok. I hope what I wrote was at least considered. I did see your repeating of your belief that the KJV is a 'Catholic' Bible and that's untrue. And your idea that hell doesn't actually mean hell, but something nicer like a cellar or grave isn't true either. The Bible is already translated accurately by a team of experts who spent years methodically and prayerfully doing it word for word. You're one person claiming the opposite with no evidence for it, so I don't find the attacks on God's word as credible. Not sure what your goals are in attacking God's word publicly on a Bible site, but nonetheless, I'm glad you're here.

You asked: "For what purpose did GOD SAVE YOU."

I don't agree with the terminology "saved" past tense, because we haven't been judged yet. The Bible mostly uses the terminology shall or will be saved. Future tense, not past tense, because we are still living and have freewill to follow Jesus or not follow Him. The choice is ours.

Paul in the Bible said to run the race to the end to receive the prize, not the race was already over. 1 Cor 9:24-27

So I don't believe I have been "saved" from anything yet, nor has anyone else on earth, because we haven't been judged as it says we will be in 2 Corinthians 5:10. It says we "all" must appear to be judged. All means all. I understand some think they can skip judgment based on good behavior, but that's not Biblical. All means everyone. Here's another: Romans 14:12 "Every one of us..." 1 Corinthians 4:5. "Every one" means everyone, including Christians and non-Christians. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

But by following Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? Yes. Philippians 1:6

If we don't follow Jesus, can we have assurance and confidence in salvation? No. Luke 12:5. Hebrews 10:26

God bless...

Hello Brother Earl, & all in discussion,

I hope you're not feeling attacked, "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Proverbs 27:5-6, I believe we are all still learning, just because we believed something to be true or false previously doesn't mean we always will. The HOLY Spirit is still teaching all of us. The scriptures that are stirring in me the most while reading your discussion are Matthew 7:13-23, Matthew 25:29-30, Matthew 25:31-46, I pray GOD will give us wisdom in these matters. Philippians 2:12-16, Hebrews 10:23-39,

This is part of a commentary on Acts 2:35. You can read the whole thing on BibleRefDOTcom (type a period where I typed DOT)

You might read Matthew 10:36 also

It is true that David had many military battles and attributed his victories to God (see Psalm 18), but the enemies referred to in Psalm 110:1, quoted here in Acts 2:35, are Jesus' enemies (FOES) including the Antichrist, Satan, sin, and the ultimate enemy, which is death ( 1 Corinthians 15:26). The suggestion that Jesus waits for God to defeat His enemies is an interesting one. The author of Hebrews reaffirms it in Hebrews 10:12-13. In Philippians 2:1-9, Paul explains that Jesus voluntarily submitted Himself to God and took on the role of a servant. In return, God has exalted Jesus' name so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" ( Philippians 2:10-11).

"Footstool" is from the Greek root word hypopodion. This is like calling something an "underfoot" in English. In common practice, it means a stool or resting place for one's feet. As a metaphor, it refers to the tradition of military leaders to place their feet on the necks of those they had conquered. Jesus' enemies will be completely vulnerable and in complete subjection to Him. We don't know when, but we do know at least one thing: God will do it, not us ( John 18:36).

Hebrews 10:1-39, Malachi 3:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Isaiah 58:6-8, James 2:15-20

Hopefully these help

Hi Hans.

A conditional covenant is an agreement between two or more parties that requires certain terms to be met. If the terms are met, there will be one kind of result (favorable). If the terms are not met, there will be a different result (unfavorable).

The case we have here is Abraham had no participation in the oath being made therefore he was not bound to an oath.

It was the Lord given the promise and it was "HE" who confirmed it with an oath.

Hebrews 6:13-14.

Hebrews 6:17.

It didn't take obedience of the Law to form the Covenant.

Galatians 3:17-18.

However I didn't Leave out obedience.

Here's why and how we obey.

AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

THE TRUE VINE!

John 151:17.

Ps. You are not expected to bare fruit until AFTER you are connected to the vine.

Notice verse 4.

John 15:4.

The branch cannot bear fruit of itself!!

Nor does it produce the fruit!!

Again. ( YOU CANNOT PRODUCE THE FRUIT ) YOU BEAR IT.!!

( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

Hebrews 10:16

Romans 6:6

Romans 8:10-11.

God bless.

UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT TO ABRAHAM.

This is what is getting covered up by spritualizing certain text.

And How it relates to us.

Hebrews 6:13-19 (KJV) For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Saying, SURELY BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE, and MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THEE.

And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the IMMUTABILITY of his counsel, CONFIRMED IT BY AN OATH:

That by TWO IMMUTABLE THINGS, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, AND WHICH ENTERED INTO THAT "WITHIN THE VEIL;"

Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Here's the covenant and Promise between God and Abraham.

TAKE NOTICE OF WHO IS THE LONE PARTICIPANT IN PERFORMING THE COVENANT.

Here's Isaac being Promised.

Genesis 15:4-5.

Abraham's participation.

Genesis 15:6.

Here's the covenant performed.

Genesis 15:8-11.

NOTICE WHAT GOD DOES TO ABRAHAM.

Genesis 15:12.

This covenant being instituted by God only suggests its faithfulness depended on Gods PROMISE NOT ABRAHAM'S FAITHFULNESS!!

Abraham faith was in God's PROMISE!!

That's Mercy, Grace, and Faith apart from works. And Eternal Security all in view here.

Galatians 4:28. !!

Galatians 3:8-9.

Galatians 3:13-15.

THE PROMISE OF A SAVIOR GIVEN BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH!!

Galatians 3:16-17.

2 Corinthians 3.

Galatians 3:18.

THE TRUE VINE!

AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

Hebrews 10:16.

Romans 6:6.

Romans 8:10-11.

( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

This is what's being attacked by those crept in from unawares.

God bless.

Hello Walter. You wrote: "if someone is first and last all they are stating the(y) are the only one." If Jesus has stated this (as in Revelation 1:8; Revelation 12:13), could He actually be identifying completely with the One God, from Whom He once proceeded from, as the Word of God given flesh? 'Alpha & Omega' is a very strong loaded phrase that can only be denoted to God, to which the risen Jesus Who sits at the right Hand of God, makes claim to ( Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 10:12; 1 Peter 3:22). If the 'only one God now is Jesus', what happened to the Father, Whom Jesus sits beside? Jesus not only prayed to His Father whilst He walked on Earth, but now reigns with Him ( Revelation 3:21; Revelation 7:10).

Hi, I am going back to Hebrews 10:26. This verse is set in the context of someone denying the gospel, so the willful sin here is a believer who apostasizes and continues in stubborn, persistent deliberate rejection of the gospel. If they do not repent and return to faith, they will not be saved in the end. In the mean time, the time period that they are in rejection of the gospel, having previously believed, they are unsaved until they repent, being returned to the same state as non-believers, in which there is no other way to have forgiveness of sins outside of Christ.

Later in this passage, Paul says: Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God (believing the gospel, you may receive the promise (salvation.)

For we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Hebrews 10:35-37; 39

Paul is urging his congregants to persist in the faith, as some were known to have apostasized among the churches in those times.

The conclusion of all things.

Revelation 22:1-7.

Let's skip ahead to 2 neglected verses.

Revelation 22:10-11. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Here's where the unjust will remain unjust, and the just will remain just. Meaning judgement is past tense by the time we get here.

Revelation 22:12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Sounds familiar? ( 1 Corinthians 3:14-15.)

Revelation 22:14-15. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Verse 14 we have the redeemed! They're the just that will stay just mentioned in verse 11. How did they do his commandments? By Atonement!

Romans 3:24-28.

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Also: 1 John 2:1-2.

And Hebrews 10:14-17.

Revelation 5:9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

God bless.

Bro Dan,

Sorry for the late reply. I was away and just saw the questions you sent. I'll respond to the 2 verses you sent. First of all, Hebrews 10:26. This is one of the verses that is used by those who believe salvation can be lost. But I do not see anything there that tells me salvation can be lost. In all the verses in Hebrews chapter 10, beginning from verse 1, the writer, whoever that might be, is speaking to Hebrew people. He is showing them the superiority of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ over the sacrificial system of Judaism.

After the writer has presented his case that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is far superior than their Jewish way of sacrificing, In Hebrews 10:26, the writer is telling these Hebrew people that if they turn away and go back to into Judaism, they are not going to find any sacrifice there that is going to take care of their sin problem if they reject Christ and His sacrifice. (There is no other sacrifice for sin).

A person who has "received the knowledge of the truth" does not mean that person is saved. Hebrews 6:4 also speaks about an "enlightened" person. People also use this verse to prove you can lose your salvation. But again, an enlightened person does not mean a saved person. A person can be enlightened to the truth, they can receive the knowledge of the truth, but if that person does not surrender their life to Jesus Christ, that knowledge and enlightenment means nothing.

These people were being enlightened to the truth about Christ. They received the knowledge. But instead of surrendering to Christ, they were turning away and going back into Judaism. It was much easier for them to do that than to surrender their life to Christ. Surrendering to Christ meant severe persecution, so they were turning away. No salvation there to be lost because they turned away without surrendering to Christ.

I'm running out of space. I'll respond to the other verse you mention ( Philippians 2:12) and your other questions in a second post.

Brother Jesse,

If you believe that you can't lose your salvation - what is Apostle Paul saying here:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

I reads to me, that if we willfully continue to sin there is "no more sacrifice for sins" and we could lose our salvation!

Paul is telling us that we need to work out our own salvation "with fear and trembling". He is asking us to take action! Do we just disregard this scripture?

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Jesus tells us throughout the NT that we need to refrain from sin. Why would Jesus tell us to stop sinning if we can continue to sin and still receive salvation? Jesus and Apostle Paul agree that we must become obedient, and stop sinning, if we want to receive salvation. Tons of scripture stating this..

Should we be so confident in our salvation - that we disregard much of the scripture stating what "we need to be a part" of our own salvation. I will agree with Paul, and approach my salvation with fear and trembling, and trust him and Jesus, when they say we must repent from sin!

God Bless.

Brother Rick,

Regarding the word "Gift" verses "Favor" as mentioned in an earlier post, these terms have been interchanged and argued by the biblical scholars and are related to the various language translations. If it is as you say simply a gift, all that believe - will go to Heaven. Not wanting to beat a dead horse, but the devil and his demons believe - are they going to heaven? We both know the answer, so it requires more than just believing, and this is talked about by Jesus and his apostles throughout the NT.

I'm glad that we do agree that "just believing" is not "a free ticket to salvation". So then, it also takes obedience, so we can't just say "we believe" and continue to live our old lives (live in sin), we are Born Again - to live new lives, and we must struggle as Paul states in various scripture. Many do not believe Paul when he states the following scripture:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

So if you believe Apostle Paul, we will need to participate in our own salvation! It is not just "a Gift" that we receive - no matter what we do. Many people today pick and choose some of Pauls scripture that will approve their current lifestyle, but they will ignore Pauls additional scripture - if it does not help to confirm their lifestyle. When they hear all of the "feel good preachers" telling them they can keep their current worldly lifestyle and still receive salvation - they jump right on board that train!!!!

All of the scripture tells us we "must believe" and "be obedient" to receive our salvation.

Happy Sabbath Day and God Bless.

Brother Adam,

I agree. The gift that is so freely talked about by those who want to "keep their lives" and still recieve salvation are plainly missguided. You simply can't keep your life, and recieve salvation. It is one or the other!

The gift is really a "favor from God" with the hope that the reciever will accept it - and walk with Christ. If the reciever does not walk with Christ - they do not recieve the gift of salvation.

If we are truly - Born Again - there will be a change in us, and we will want to try to live a Christ like life!

Paul states the following which is very clear:

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Galatians 6:7

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

A Christ like person will strive to be sin free, and will produce good fruit/works.

James 2:22

"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?"

So many christians todaybelieve wrongly they are going to heaven no matter what. This is wrong! Here is Paul himself instructing us how to achieve our own salvation:

Philippians 2:12

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Why would Paul instruct us in the above verse, if all believer's are going to heaven anyway?

There are "no free tickets". People need to read the bible and believe what it says.

God Bless

Hello, it really doesn't matter what man thinks, but what God says, correct? So, if you believe and trust God then go with God's word. Here's the problem: people are falsely assuming they're 'saved' before they're even judged. It doesn't say in the Bible we're saved before we're judged, but after. The judgment is to determine salvation. So, you have many here claiming they can't lose their salvation. But that won't occur until after this life. So, they are taking verses that are for that and assuming they apply now. But read the Word closely, Paul said we can have assurance of salvation. Not that we're saved and can do whatever we want with no consequence. Paul said to run the race to get the prize. But people here are thinking he said 'you already have the prize, so don't run any race, and enjoy the world.' It says don't conform to the world.

Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Hebrews 6:4-6

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'

2 Peter 3:17

Luke 8:5-18

1 Timothy 4:1

2 Peter 2:20-22

Hello Michael,

To answer your question, no once saved always saved that Baptist are taught to believe is not correct, a person who receives Christ into their heart still have free will to forfeit their salvation in Christ. Here are a list of scriptures to help you along your journey with Christ about this topic.

Ezekiel 18:24

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

Ezekiel 18:26

"When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die."

Hebrews 10:26

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Hebrews 10:27

"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Read the whole book of Revelation also chapters 2 and 3 pertaining to this topic.

Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3:6-7, Genesis 3:22-24,

Please note inbtween those scriptures GOD acts with compassion & mercy Genesis 3:21, & sacrifice of another creature to cover them.

Romans 16:19

Hopefully these are helpful.

Leviticus 23:19, Hebrews 10:1-10, Ephesians 1:7

I suggest praying and asking for peace and understanding.

If you're referring to something you thought or did before you came to know the Lord, then I personally don't believe you are guilty of this. I think it's closer to the opposite of what the other commenter said. I think it's especially for Christians who already 'know better' and already know the truth, then reject it to the point of calling good evil and evil good and claiming evil motives- perhaps like an ultimate betrayal, and it might also involve denying the holy spirit within you. I hesitate to even write this as an example. A clear example of this blaspheming is Matthew 12:24 by the Pharisees. Jesus logically refuted it, but it's unclear whether He was saying the Pharisees then had no chance to go to heaven, because I don't believe they had true knowledge of the truth yet. I think it's possible Judas committed this as well. It's possible Peter committed this, but was forgiven in a special circumstance, possibly.

My Biblical support for this is Hebrews 10:26 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 and 1 Timothy 1:13 and Hebrews 6:4-6 and Luke 23:34. Maybe more here: Link

This is my personal opinion. Romans 1:20 could be used to suggest otherwise, but it's my opinion that it is only concerning knowing there's a God, not necessarily having the full truth of Jesus Christ and the holy spirit and then denying. I also don't believe falling away qualifies. I think we're talking about a full on rejection and I hate even the thought while writing this, but if it couldn't happen Jesus would not have warned us about it. God bless.

Hello, this question was just asked yesterday, and probably every week on this discussion area.

Here's verses about it:

Link

Here's a previous discussion I found via advanced search and selecting discussions.

Link

More verses:

Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

OSAS believers: "Ok, but a Christian would never do that"

"Christians no longer have freewill to sin? Is that true?"

Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Hebrews 6:4-6

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not the 'race was already won.'

2 Peter 3:17

Luke 8:5-18

1 Timothy 4:1

2 Peter 2:20-22

Hebrews 3:12

Galatians 5:4

1 Corinthians 15:2-8

2 Peter 2:20-21

Hi Michael,

Just one verse in the Bible is all it takes to refute the OSAS theory:

Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

But there's so many more verses too. Paul is the one who said we can have assurance of salvation, but what people often do is the remove the contingent part- this requires us to "follow Jesus!" A Christian is an active Jesus follower. It's a pursuit that involves effort and transforming oneself. Not being slave to sin, but to righteousness. People want their cake and to eat it too, by not following Jesus, enjoying unlimited sin, but also demanding salvation like a spoiled, self-entitled brat. Some Christians even deny this reality. But Jesus already addressed that:

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Believe it or not, there are even people who don't want to do good. They claim that it's 'bad' to do good works. One should ask, did Jesus say that? If not, does that idea come from God or satan?

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

I think people would slander Jesus today for doing good works, just like they did back then.

Here are more verses (too many to even paste here):

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Hebrews 6:4-6

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race", not 'party' or sit on sofa.

Pray to God to know the truth.