That is something you will need to grow in the grace of our Lord and to come to understanding with faith "FROM God"
1 Peter 2:2.
You are right in that what you said.
"God does not reject anyone by outward appearance.
We are separated from God by our sin nature.
Our sin nature is inherited at birth, going all the way back to Adam. Romans 5:12.
It's the heart of mankind that God looks at.
1 Samuel 16:7.
Here is what the Bible say about the heart.
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jeremiah 17:9-10.
Psalms 53:1-3 gives a good description of the state of man at his best when he is separated from God and again this separation is at birth!
Here's the Good news!
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That "WHOSOEVER" believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that "WHOSOEVER" believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, "WHOSOEVER" believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
4 And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This section of scripture concludes with a fairly well known verse (at least to me) in regard to the state of an unregenerated human heart. The surrounding sicriptures describe curses that result from trusting man over God (verse 5); as well as the contrast with those who are trusting rather in the Lord (verse 7). We can see the fate of eternal fire (verse 4) as ultimate punishment as well as results for individuals and nations who are against the Lord; again contrasted with verse 8 which is similar to Psalm 1 in construction with blessings for the righteous.
Prophetically some of these events no doubt are related to Judah and Israel during the Babylonian diaspora. The idea of forsaking God can be seen in verse 13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters. Written in the earth is seen also in Revelation 11:10. Let us choose who to serve this day!
Our own thoughts, desires, and reasoning are a constant source of an internal "voice." The Bible exhorts us to examine our hearts, for they can be deceptive.
Romans 7:15-23: Paul vividly describes the internal battle between the desire to do good and the flesh that leads him to do evil. This is the "voice" of our human nature in conflict with the Spirit.
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" This verse is the basis for caution regarding our own feelings and impulses.
Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death." Our own logic, without God's direction, can lead us astray.
Personalization. The real power of mass mind control of course relates to convincing each individual in regard to their unique life experiences that they share something of the "cosmos" as it were. Any rational or scientific examination of much of what is a type of predictive programming of the soul of men shows much outright fallacy; but the mind of man is easily confused and no doubt Jeremiah 17:9 demonstrates the heart of man is sick beyond understanding. We can comprehend what Isaiah 44:19 says:
And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
It is ironic that in true sacrifices as we see in the O.T. the priests could benefit from the food itself offered to God; but men who use part of a piece of wood to create an idol can't give the true God the glory for blessings only He can bestow. If God hadn't created the animals and plants to eat and our mouths to consume it then we would be as lifeless as the dead piece of wood. Food for thought...
Here is where it gets deep. I am not going to speak categorically here but I am hesitant to keep an image of anyone who has died; and for those who as far as I know are lost I can never look at their pictures again and have to destroy them. The first concept is for a saved person which sort of represents the image of God as to how they were created in outward appearance; countenance; etc. when their souls were still within them. My point here is that even if we do capture a fairly realistic image of Jesus for instance He is inwardly the image of the invisible God and cannot be viewed upon as a mere man. Jesus made it clear that only God gives revelation as to who He is as superior to a great teacher or prophet.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness we not that He didn't dispute Satan when offered all the kingdoms of this world. It had to be so as to Satan's temporary domain over these things or it wouldn't have been a temptation at all. Of course he was totally defeated after probably anticipating Christ was defeated on the cross; only to have the resurrection 3 days later. The true victory happened the second Jesus drew His last breath on the cross when He said "it is finished."
Ultimately; despite almost wiping out all of mankind numerous times in history our enemy is in a defeated position. His complete failure is demonstrated in the fact that it is impossible for even one soul that he has worked so hard to attempt to keep in darkness can be held back from salvation if God so chooses to reveal Himself to them through His Son and of course through the power of the Holy Spirit. Once the statement in John 14:23 comes to pass the Godhead lives within a person and sin no longer can prevent what Romans describes as sancrification and glorification ( Romans 8:30). The process of a born again soul inevitably heads toward this eternal heavenly state and there isn't anything the enemy can do to change that.
We of course are not ignorant of his schemes; and naturally the accuser will continue to find ways to attack us at every opportunity. It is clear though that today even with the wickedness of men at unprecidented levels we see more and more people detransitioning; for instance and coming out of the occult; drugs; and other deviant behaviors as God clearly calls them and works in their lives. It seems we see less of those who we may consider less controversial these days coming to faith and that no doubt is in no small way related to the watered down Gospel today which won't press people to confront their own sick hearts ( Jeremiah 17:9); and desperate need as Jude says to be taken out of the fire.
Hello Sarahirena and thanks for your question. I'm unsure whether your question on the keeping of the Sabbath Day is simply for understanding what Israel was required by God to do on that day, or whether, you are wanting to observe that day yourself and enquiring about what was permissible. So, I'll assume the first, and give you some Scriptures for you to read on the subject.
Exodus 34:21 (no work in the fields); Jeremiah 17:21,22; Amos 8:4,5 (not carrying any load and doing business); Exodus 16:28-30 (not to leave the precincts of the home); Exodus 35:2,3 (light no fires/no cooking); Numbers 15:32-36 (no gathering of firewood). These are some of the restrictions placed on the children of Israel; if they disobeyed, as the man gathering sticks did, it meant death. Very harsh punishment, but that was what the Law demanded, requiring strict obedience to God.
And when the Jewish leaders (the Pharisees and Saducees) came on the scene during the second temple period (i.e. after the Persian king Cyrus began to release the Jewish captives back to their homeland & helped in the building of this temple), these 'new' religious leaders began to add many laws & regulations to the existing Laws given by God to Israel. And it was these leaders that accused Jesus and His disciples for picking and eating corn from the fields on the Sabbath Day (which was not lawful to do). But Jesus explained ( Mark 2:23-28), that the Sabbath day was given for man's benefit and not the other way around. So, if you are hungry, then you are entitled to 'work' by picking or purchasing food to satisfy your need, even though the Letter of the Law prohibited it.
So the Sabbath Day (with the other 9 commands, plus many others) were given to Israel so they might have a day of rest from their hard labors in the field, etc and be refreshed for the next six days work. And this Day was "holy" because it was 'set apart' from the other days. And these commands were for Israel - not given to the Church.
In considering the end times; where we certainly are headed quickly as I see it-we see that proclamations are made beforehand as to the general state of the "last days" such as attitudes of people in 2 Timothy 3 as well as with the 144,000 and the 2 prophets in Revelation. We also see angels themselves as we get to the time the bowl judgments are about to occur as a final warning.
In reality; of course for an unregenerate person it only seals their fate and increases their judgment once their impenitent hearts are challenged. The lack of love of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:10) allows the world to accept the Daniel 9:27 covenant also known as the covenant with death and hell in Isaiah 28:18 which is deliberately agreed upon despite the obvious ramifications.
People as they do now will hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. As with the Prophets of old God says He will do nothing without first revealing the matter to the prophets ( Amos 3:7); and we see this process most clearly it seems with Jeremiah but also of course with the warnings in Deuteronomy as to blessings and cursings. Deuteronomy 30:19 says to choose life and live but of course Jeremiah 17:9 shows the human heart is desperately wicked and who can understand it?
Again a repeated concept here that I have mentioned is that the world is aware of what's coming. It is the same sort of idea when Christ came the first time with the Pharisees denying the obvious and committing the unpardonable blasphemy against the Spirit saying that it is evil; and likely the same sort of thing will be heard by the son of perdition and the world at large once judgments start to fall as we see several times during the bowl judgments ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). He will say "unheard of" things against the Most High ( Daniel 11:36) and will come in his own name yet declare himself to be god (see John 5:43).
We need to be ready to desire seeing the Day of the Lord ( Amos 5:18
Now this again takes some tact and needs to be approached Biblically; and I pray the Lord guides me in this.
Jesus in the passage in the last posting referred to His disciples as "little children". We are never able to get beyond this in a sense even though we are called to grow into solid food in the meat of the Word. Now He foreknew that all but Judas Iscariot would continue in faith until the end. If you look at the narrative it ain't exactly happening on a surface level. The Disciples were acting immature; asking fire to come down from heaven as with Elijah when Jesus wasn't welcomed in a certain town; arguing who was the greatest and of course all including Peter running away when the soldiers came for Him (not to mention falling asleep at His greatest hour of need). Now some of this no doubt was due to their human weaknesses before the Spirit came down at Pentecost. But we see that it indeed IS all Christ who perseveres in His saints through the indwelling and sealing of the Spirit. This is reflected in our obedience and growth; but of course one only needs to read Corinthians as well as Revelation to the churches to see that indeed there are various rewards or lack thereof for individuals. In one sense we don't know everyone's fate as some can make a deathbed confession and what is truly sad is I have heard at least one instance from someone whose mom turned away from Christ near her death. I get no pleasure in mentioning this. We must heed to His warnings because if we let the loss of a lost person control us we will always be bitter toward God and that can't be overcome without true faith.
A true believer knows that without Christ's grace they would never come to God and ultimately if Antichrist came would worship him; that is the case for me and everyone else. Understanding the Jeremiah 17:9 state of our hearts must continue until death.
We are as Jesus stated all "unworthy servants" Lk 17:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Ezekiel 36:24-31
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Satan's greatest debacles: Part 1-Promoting sin in order to keep people from coming to the Lord.
Thinking outside the box as I tend to like to do means I have to choose my words carefully here. In general I'd say that Romans 5:20 is where I am going with this:
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
When we all came to faith in Christ; we were in fact sinners. Too often I think we focus on sin rather than the cause; our sin NATURE. I hate to capitalize and be obnoxious but some things warrant extra emphasis. Exploring this concept I'd actually add to it and say that in order to justify ourselves not only could this verse be taken out of context; but we indeed wish to retain our old nature as our main goal. Our actions may or many not be considered as to a particular sin but many would surprise themselves when asked months or years before a particular sin is made a habit or lifestyle if they were challenged as to just how wicked their heart is (again; focusing on Jeremiah 17:9). If we are truly His children He will either gently or severely buffet us. I don't know about anyone else here but I suspect we'd rather not get the roughshod treatment.
Anyway as to the original concept here those who are called by the Lord are reached above and beyond their own wickedness and the heart is pricked; the consciousness is stirred up. Jesus made atonement for all sin so that isn't an issue in Him reaching us. We should all consider this unique experience once we consider ourselves to be "seasoned veterans" in faith so we don't indeed lose salt and light and have our salvation experience be some dim past memory. I am convinced that our so called ordinary days are at least as much of importance as those when we are doing God's works such as evangelism or serving others in the Body. May we all put into the storehouse heavenly treasures more than earthly ones that fade away.
For the believer; worst case scenario as I discussed in several posts already if we suddenly pass away because of God's dealing with sin there is no doubt we would say once all was said and done that "yes; He took me out because I was disobedient" and go on with our heavenly existence not missing this world one iota. Maybe God puts some who were lazy now on heavy prayer duty for others. Anyway I try to not deviate from scripture in my interpretations here. Someone gaining reward; great or small of course casts it at Jesus' feet (not sure the exact timing when crowns come but by the Rapture they are handed out and then cast at His feet). As I said before there will ba a knowing; others will recognize and NOT jealously follow suit in their designated roles as God is fair in all things. We shall know Him as we are known; a rough interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:12.
What we fear other than the accusations regarding sin and Satan giving us a general feeling of dread is losing control; whatever keeps us in our comfort zones; so to speak. I for one am particularly prone to addiction to certain routines; or how I design my day with a sort of attention deficit behavior that I was diagnosed with many decades ago in the stone ages when I was in High School. The enemy has many tricks; if one tactic doesn't work he'll switch to another; whether it is having people try to take advantage of us; seduction; persecution; doubts; failures where we are tempted to be angry; fleshly passions; etc. Need I go on? That is definitely an advantage of those who have the persuasion as I do of the "total depravity" concept; but I will simply use Jeremiah 17:9. Many people sadly don't get it when they say how nice I am and in fact probably are insulted when I say that I have no good in me. Too bad; although I should gratefully accept compliments as it helps to bolster friendships in all honesty most of what I do involves a half hearted effort. I'm very bad.
The concept of total depravity; of course is an attempt to find a definition that fits best the admittedly appalling condition of the human heart as seen in Jeremiah 17:9. Whether we banter about decrying our hopeless condition because of a doctrinal assent of the situation or it is because the love of God constrains us ( 2 Corinthians 5:14) may sound the same on the outside; but it makes all the difference in reaching lost souls in the inside. One only needs to grasp Isaiah 6:5 and other verses on those prophets that saw God's presence and glory to see that this is a default reaction for all men to have. The world at large; of course scanters off in fear; or as Revelation 6:15-17.
Many today are shielded and have a temporary reprieve; as it were who hang around Christians; whether professing faith or not.
The going may be good for now; not to mention having people around who can help out in a pinch; but once the Bride of Christ is raptured; no such protection will continue to exist.
Another concept I'd like to hammer home is that in regard to Predestination (and I have said this before) it is not so much what we do but the reasons for doing it. The world no doubt is enamored with those who give a lot to the poor; and who are influential and everyone seems to live by their own standards but conforms to what is acceptable which reminds us of the Pharisees in Luke 16:15. The Lord did say they would praise God for our good works ( Matthew 5:16). Since He also mentions in the beatitudes blessing those who curse us in the same chapter in verse 44 as well as in Luke's rendition we certainly don't expect praise for the reason we do things but for external actions by some; although in theory those in the body of Christ should recognize such attributes but those who are Godly usually aren't the prominent ones in the Church even genuine works. There are many who make a sideshow for greedy gain ( 1 Tim. 6:10)
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
There is someone who I know professionally who I cannot go beyond the bounds of that who I have in mind writing this post. As I have prayed for her she has split up with her boyfriend where she was likely compromising which is an answered prayer. I am hoping she decides to attend church once again as the enemy would see fit for that not to happen. I will keep her name anonymous but I see great potential as she is a very loving person and since her desire is to see family members saved as I do I believe she is a true Christian. Due to death she has lost much of her immediate family.
Keeping in mind Jeremiah 17:9 we understand that our hearts are desperately wicked apart from His saving grace. Now; our affections are caught between the flesh and the Spirit. "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh." ( Galatians 5:17; but another version).
This verse shows that we can't just live in a vacuum shutting down the flesh but the Spirit must be in control of all things in our hearts. Fellowship of the saints is a healthy thing for a believer IF it is truly that and not something abandoning scriptural protocols and doctrines. One of the pinnacles of this is suffering as a Body of believers. Being insulated from such in our nation we have a few examples of those suffering being a witness for Christ but to find the majority of a local fellowship engaged with the struggle of the Great Commission is also rare. Usually with today's demographics the biggest issue is elderly individuals with physical ailments and it is certainly commendable for those that step up to assist. True religion is helping the orphans and widows ( James 1:27); which I can say our church is doing to some extent.
Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Heaven is; no doubt principally involved with the worship of the Triune God as primary; and relational with fellowship with other saints in His presence as secondary. In those of us in situations where we are single; or have no possibility of having children it can be depressing; admittedly. What is at the heart of any truly Godly relationship is the presence of the Lord; and we are to guard our hearts against anything getting in the way ( Prov. 4:23). As our hearts are desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) we need to take care not to attempt shortcuts or compromise in order to try to give God a "jump start" as to what we desire.
First and foremost the Kingdom of God is to be sought after; and then the Lord will give us the desires of our heart ( Psalm 37:4).
As a jealous God is towards His people ( Exodus 20:5) an earthly marriage in particular should covet the partnership with the covenant spouse in exclusion of all others in certain aspects of intimacy. No doubt there are applications which a couple should learn to practice in reaching out to others by working together as a team; something that takes hard work and sadly in many cases doesn't come to fruition as we often see only one of the two parties committed to local church attendance; etc.
We must remember that as His children ultimately He knows what is best for us. When we compare the eternal weight of glory ( 2 Corinthians 4:17) to our current burdens that gives us a clear perspective on priorities of greater and lesser importance.
I pray this forum will truly continue to help bear one anothers' burdens even with the anonymous forum.
Thank you Jesus that you are the King of healing! I pray Jesus that Rezten's central nervous system is healed in the name of Jesus! I pray that the central nervous system injury will be healed in a miraculous and powerful way in the name of Jesus! Thank you Jesus that any ailment we have can be healed in your name Jesus. Jeremiah 17:14 "Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me and I shall be saved, for you are my praise." I pray Jesus that salvation will be upon Denis. I pray that no weapon formed against Denis will prosper in the name of Jesus! I pray that Denis's heart is open to you Jesus. I am keeping you in my prayers. Let me know if there is anything else I can pray with you about.
There are many verses in the Bible that show the human nature of Jesus. But also there are many verses that show the divine nature of Jesus. Some of them are many parts of John's gospel (especially the begining) such as John 1:30, John 2:19, John 3:13, John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33, John 14:9-10, John 14:23, John 20:28, Acts 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, Hebrews 1:8, Matthew 1:22-23, 1 Cor 10:9, Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, Zechariah 11:12-13, Romans 9:1-5, and many other that I can not recall now. Jesus also accepted people to kneel infront of Him, something that is only permitted for God. Also compare Psalms 102:25-27 where it talks about God to Hebrews 1:10 where it talks about Jesus. Also compare Joel 3:5 to Acts 9:13. Compare Jeremiah 17:9 to Rev 2:23, etc.
So we have two kinds of scripture. One says that Jesus is human, the other says that Jesus is God. So what do we make out of these two? The obvious, that Jesus is the God, one person of the Godhead, who became man.
Lets think it in another way. We know that God loved people so much so that He sacrificed His own son for us. Now lets use another example. Suppose I love my brother and want to help Him. and the only way to help him is to give my own life for him. How does it seem to you that I would sacrifice instead of my own life, my son's life for Him to help Him? Why my son? And not myself? The most sensible thing is that I would sacrifice my own life for him, not somebody's else. That would be very egoistic. Somebody else to suffer for my intention to help somebody that I love? I think you can understand what I trying to say. So what did God do? He sacrificed Himself for us, one person out of the Godhead took on Him our nature, became a man and gave His life for us. So it is God's love that attracts people to Him. It wouldn't be love if He sacrificed somebody else, an innocent person's life, for his intention to save us. I hope I haven't done it so complicated to understand. GBU
UGH now I know it is the enemy not just my stupid computer this is my THIRD attempt to write about the danger of the flesh in comparison to our new nature. Somehow another window zapped out my post this time...
I was in my defense looking up a verse 2 Thessalonians 2:10 about those who don't LOVE the truth and hence in the next verse believe THE lie. So I will make that my introduction because I realize the importance of that statement. I was going to bring up the TRUST factor in our faith. IF WE DON'T TRUST God's truth above our emotions we can and WILL be deluded; that has to be paramount in reading scripture not just acquiescence of truth but faith that anything CONTRARY is a lie. Of course (I'll let the reader search for the verse so I am not wiped out again) those who love Christ will obey what He says. There has to be BOTH to demonstrate true faith. That separates those disingenuous professers of faith who have no desire to obey His statutes. That isn't legalism; but means we don't live in a lifestyle of anarchy as the alternative.
I will probably do a series here on the flesh as it is such an enemy; our greatest enemy most of the time no doubt. It is more than just self denial or mutilation that is scriptural; it is putting to death the deeds of the flesh. This separates those who have some martyr complex; i.e. suffering just for the sake of proving something about themselves as opposed to taking part in Christ's sufferings. We; of course can't suffer and die for other's sins as He did; but nonetheless the privilege of suffering is given to us ultimately as a blessing because we are tested as gold in the fire and can look forward to great reward.
It is hard to comprehend the sway that these prosperity preachers have until we understand as Jeremiah 17:9 states of the sickness and depravity of men's hearts (in this case covetousness). Each of us however in our own way have gone astray in like manner; just with different sins.
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
A quick overview of the entire chapter of Ezekiel 36 shows that the meaning is primarily in the exodus and eventual regathering of God's people. When we get into a couple chapters later we enter the Ezekiel 38 war which continues showing the fate of nations that fight against Israel. This verse also is used to demonstrate the change in each believer's state; as opposed to the condition mentioned in Jeremiah 17:9 on how deceitful and wicked man's unregenerate heart nature is.
The principle involved in the nation of Israel repenting is found in this verse: Romans 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
The Lord will therefore use the time of "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7) to put the Jews through the fire; and at that time 2/3 will perish and 1/3 make it through ( Zechariah 13:8) which signifies the refining fire. Naturally this is preceded by the arrival of the false messiah who will be venerated by many until the time mentioned in Isaiah 10:20 which would be at the midpoint of the Tribulation.
The new covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31 and the next several verses after also could be applied to that which Christ accomplished for those in the church (or church age). It's final fruition will finally reach Israel who rejected the first coming of their king because they didn't recognize Him as the suffering servant; and or assumed He would immediately overtake their enemies and start an earthly Kingdom.
In general I would state that every age or dispensation has a similar fate; a beginning and end. Israel had several Diasporas and in the last days the church in general will fall away.
Why did God love me as His enemy enough to die for my sins?
I may want to define sin and being God's enemy as a unit conceptually. As for sin; I have stated repeatedly that our external actions (fruits) are symptoms of the root cause that is s sin nature which stems from verses such as Jeremiah 17:9 on the state of the heart of man (not good). It would seem that being God's enemy is beyond even just that concept of our heart and actions.
Unbelief; it would seem is up there as one of the top evils along with pride. That is; of course defined as true unbelief as the Pharisees demonstrated around Christ when miracles could not be denied and they attributed them to Beelzebub ( Matt. 12:24).
This is not as some falsely claim not believing in what some say are miracles with unsubstantiated evidence.
Of course it is in some sense a greater thing to forgive sins which the Pharisees knew only God could do; hence accused Christ of blasphemy when he asked which was greater that or healing ( Matt. 9:8). Whether that or a physical healing with Christ something came from nothing; and in the case of men they need a heart of stone to be turned to a heart of flesh (Ez. 36:26).
We cannot ignore obvious resistance to God when the Gospel is presented; as well as with using His name in vain. Man's sins are exponentially more resistant with the affective opposition of the enemy and his minions. When seeking the Lord there are testimonies from those especially from backgrounds in the occult where the individual becomes aware of entities working through themselves as well as others. When reality dawns on these individuals their true nature is exposed; and often demons need to be cast out. I have stated previously that testimonies tend to be heavily skewed toward God giving freedom from this oppression at the expense of understanding our own wickedness and having a reverent fear of the Lord. Some seem to ignore the spiritual battle in giving testimony of being saved.
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Note the emphasis in these verses on "believing in the HEART""
Jeremiah 17:9,10
The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the HEART, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
And then there is Romans 3:10-18
There in lies the problem.
We cannot and will not "Believe in the heart" until God gives us a NEW HEART, that is a New Resurrected Soul.
Ezekiel 36:26
A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart.
That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation.
Not sure if you are a man or woman; not that I need to know; it is hard of course as it was for my ex to listen to scriptures on women being submissive; etc.
I have stated before that counseling in churches before marriage is helpful but may be hard to find; I would think it would be more common in the Reformed church; or OPC where I got my counselling after separating from my wife (something I should have done a lot sooner). "Irreconcilable differences" I suppose was the wording in my divorce papers. In terms of "communication issues" it has been said that is a lame term; probably in part because there is enough yelling that the point should get across from either party in such matters but no one really has a heart to listen.
Of course we all need to consider Jeremiah 17:9 on the state of the heart. Also; of course the concept of a church being a family of sorts was something I am partially responsible for messing up as shortly after we were married we moved away from her home town and stopped being involved in church. Her support system was something that was never fully restored when we moved back again to Pittsburgh but I also was noncommittal and too wrapped up on eschatological issues since they were rather adamantly Post-Mil. As an immature believer at that time I made a lot of mistakes; so I do thank God that now I am able to have been more involved with evangelism; and made a true commitment as a church member; etc.
The fact is; with her working with this guy for nearly 12 years before the "crap hit the fan" or I finally became aware of her infidelity what happened may have been inevitable. Also in eternity it is worth following the Lord now and any sacrifices that need to be made. Overall; I have stated on this site at least one time if not more that there is a blessing to the covenant of marriage and on the flipside; I believe divorce started family decay which has led to the abyssmal state of society overall today.
Emotional healing: Prayers and communication with the Lord.
The Spirit of the Lord should be what guards our heart ( Prov. 4:23); keeps the reins of our heart in check ( Jeremiah 17:10); gives us the mind of Christ ( 1 Cor. 2:16) as well as communing with our soul ( Romans 8:16).
As ironic as it seems; it may be often best to focus on prayers for our enemies rather than friends. With any kind of healing; there is the tendency because of our own emotional connection to desperately ask for relief from pain and suffering of any sort for those we know and love. What we fail to see sometimes especially with those we are familiar with is that God often uses suffering as a form of chastisement to get someone's attention and turn to the Lord. Obviously we shouldn't be the arbitrators of what kind of test others should go through and deliberately hold ack on prayers either. As we study persevering in prayer; we should also learn to sense the course of events the Lord is directing in an individuals life over time and tweek the prayer appropriately.
Mental healing: This subject of course intersects with emotions and physiological factors; such as Dopamine levels. Actual brain damage may be involved as well as unknown factors. Overall; of course patterns of behavior will bring healing as one focuses their energies on study of the Word and living out a Godly and obedience life of service to the Lord and of course turns away from worldliness. Those too fixated on faith healing at the expense of anything else are missing out on even Paul's example of his thorn in the flesh. Many are able to sympathize with others who are down and out; and the transparency of our own strugles can be a real inspiration and valuable in evangelism. This is more than the boasting of how depraved we are; although incorporates an internal comprehension of our good deeds being filthy rags before conversion. What it DOES show is unconditional love and an open heart to ruined sinners.
Romans 5:12 says Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
The fact is that we are all born with Adam's sin and hence at enmity with God. Our hearts are as Jeremiah 17:9 says "desperately wicked." No one does good ( Romans 3:10-12 and in Psalms); and we are estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3). So the first issue is the thought that anyone is "good" which inevitably comes from comparing ourselves to another "worse" person like Hitler (unless we are that bad ourselves and we can't appeal to anyone worse; in that case we probably wouldn't want to concern ourselves with doing good deeds. Our deeds also; BTW are evil; even our best deeds as "filthy rags". ( Isaiah 64:6). This "grace Gospel" as it is known is obviously taken from Romans as a primary source but reflects many scripture verses. Or as someone once said "a hundred percent sinner needs a hundred percent savior" (can't seem to find this entire phrase quoted by anyone).
Now death; of course in the law comes in two ways; MURDER or justifiable killing whether to exact a punishment "a life for a life" (part of Deuteronomy 19:21). It also is involved with the wars and conquests of Israel with the admittedly hard verses about exterminating entire peoples including women and children in certain circumstances. The understandable aspect of this is when the descendents of the Nephilim (or angels with women producing giant hybrid offspring) were exterminated; being an aberrant being without and eternal soul perhaps the proper interpretation of Isaiah 26:14. That is a deep study; but no doubt this is easier than explaining extermination of human beings. Those nations which were conquered had common practices of child sacrifice with idol worship; therefore it could have saved the children from a worse death. Genesis 15:16 shows how God waits until iniquity is full before utter destruction.
"I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
Blessings
You said you don't own a Bible.
That is something you will need to grow in the grace of our Lord and to come to understanding with faith "FROM God"
1 Peter 2:2.
You are right in that what you said.
"God does not reject anyone by outward appearance.
We are separated from God by our sin nature.
Our sin nature is inherited at birth, going all the way back to Adam. Romans 5:12.
It's the heart of mankind that God looks at.
1 Samuel 16:7.
Here is what the Bible say about the heart.
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jeremiah 17:9-10.
Psalms 53:1-3 gives a good description of the state of man at his best when he is separated from God and again this separation is at birth!
Here's the Good news!
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That "WHOSOEVER" believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that "WHOSOEVER" believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, "WHOSOEVER" believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:9-11
You noticed I emphasized WHOSOEVER?
That's an invitation to everyone!
That's what makes the Good news Good news!
Blessings!
4 And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This section of scripture concludes with a fairly well known verse (at least to me) in regard to the state of an unregenerated human heart. The surrounding sicriptures describe curses that result from trusting man over God (verse 5); as well as the contrast with those who are trusting rather in the Lord (verse 7). We can see the fate of eternal fire (verse 4) as ultimate punishment as well as results for individuals and nations who are against the Lord; again contrasted with verse 8 which is similar to Psalm 1 in construction with blessings for the righteous.
Prophetically some of these events no doubt are related to Judah and Israel during the Babylonian diaspora. The idea of forsaking God can be seen in verse 13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters. Written in the earth is seen also in Revelation 11:10. Let us choose who to serve this day!
continuation - part 2
2. Our Own Voice (The Flesh, The Soul, The Heart)
Our own thoughts, desires, and reasoning are a constant source of an internal "voice." The Bible exhorts us to examine our hearts, for they can be deceptive.
Romans 7:15-23: Paul vividly describes the internal battle between the desire to do good and the flesh that leads him to do evil. This is the "voice" of our human nature in conflict with the Spirit.
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" This verse is the basis for caution regarding our own feelings and impulses.
Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death." Our own logic, without God's direction, can lead us astray.
Personalization. The real power of mass mind control of course relates to convincing each individual in regard to their unique life experiences that they share something of the "cosmos" as it were. Any rational or scientific examination of much of what is a type of predictive programming of the soul of men shows much outright fallacy; but the mind of man is easily confused and no doubt Jeremiah 17:9 demonstrates the heart of man is sick beyond understanding. We can comprehend what Isaiah 44:19 says:
And none considereth in his heart, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the fire; yea, also I have baked bread upon the coals thereof; I have roasted flesh, and eaten it: and shall I make the residue thereof an abomination? shall I fall down to the stock of a tree?
It is ironic that in true sacrifices as we see in the O.T. the priests could benefit from the food itself offered to God; but men who use part of a piece of wood to create an idol can't give the true God the glory for blessings only He can bestow. If God hadn't created the animals and plants to eat and our mouths to consume it then we would be as lifeless as the dead piece of wood. Food for thought...
Here is where it gets deep. I am not going to speak categorically here but I am hesitant to keep an image of anyone who has died; and for those who as far as I know are lost I can never look at their pictures again and have to destroy them. The first concept is for a saved person which sort of represents the image of God as to how they were created in outward appearance; countenance; etc. when their souls were still within them. My point here is that even if we do capture a fairly realistic image of Jesus for instance He is inwardly the image of the invisible God and cannot be viewed upon as a mere man. Jesus made it clear that only God gives revelation as to who He is as superior to a great teacher or prophet.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness we not that He didn't dispute Satan when offered all the kingdoms of this world. It had to be so as to Satan's temporary domain over these things or it wouldn't have been a temptation at all. Of course he was totally defeated after probably anticipating Christ was defeated on the cross; only to have the resurrection 3 days later. The true victory happened the second Jesus drew His last breath on the cross when He said "it is finished."
Ultimately; despite almost wiping out all of mankind numerous times in history our enemy is in a defeated position. His complete failure is demonstrated in the fact that it is impossible for even one soul that he has worked so hard to attempt to keep in darkness can be held back from salvation if God so chooses to reveal Himself to them through His Son and of course through the power of the Holy Spirit. Once the statement in John 14:23 comes to pass the Godhead lives within a person and sin no longer can prevent what Romans describes as sancrification and glorification ( Romans 8:30). The process of a born again soul inevitably heads toward this eternal heavenly state and there isn't anything the enemy can do to change that.
We of course are not ignorant of his schemes; and naturally the accuser will continue to find ways to attack us at every opportunity. It is clear though that today even with the wickedness of men at unprecidented levels we see more and more people detransitioning; for instance and coming out of the occult; drugs; and other deviant behaviors as God clearly calls them and works in their lives. It seems we see less of those who we may consider less controversial these days coming to faith and that no doubt is in no small way related to the watered down Gospel today which won't press people to confront their own sick hearts ( Jeremiah 17:9); and desperate need as Jude says to be taken out of the fire.
Yes even nice people need God.
Exodus 34:21 (no work in the fields); Jeremiah 17:21,22; Amos 8:4,5 (not carrying any load and doing business); Exodus 16:28-30 (not to leave the precincts of the home); Exodus 35:2,3 (light no fires/no cooking); Numbers 15:32-36 (no gathering of firewood). These are some of the restrictions placed on the children of Israel; if they disobeyed, as the man gathering sticks did, it meant death. Very harsh punishment, but that was what the Law demanded, requiring strict obedience to God.
And when the Jewish leaders (the Pharisees and Saducees) came on the scene during the second temple period (i.e. after the Persian king Cyrus began to release the Jewish captives back to their homeland & helped in the building of this temple), these 'new' religious leaders began to add many laws & regulations to the existing Laws given by God to Israel. And it was these leaders that accused Jesus and His disciples for picking and eating corn from the fields on the Sabbath Day (which was not lawful to do). But Jesus explained ( Mark 2:23-28), that the Sabbath day was given for man's benefit and not the other way around. So, if you are hungry, then you are entitled to 'work' by picking or purchasing food to satisfy your need, even though the Letter of the Law prohibited it.
So the Sabbath Day (with the other 9 commands, plus many others) were given to Israel so they might have a day of rest from their hard labors in the field, etc and be refreshed for the next six days work. And this Day was "holy" because it was 'set apart' from the other days. And these commands were for Israel - not given to the Church.
When recieve Christ as savior he gives us a new heart altogether.
He gives us a heart of flesh, one that he works with.
There's no repairing this old stoney heart of ours.
Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
In the original language desperately wicked means "Incurably wicked "
God gets rid of this stoney heart of ours.
Just genuinely go to the Lord for salvation and submit yourself to him and he will do the rest.
Pray and stay in his word for strength and spiritual growth.
Also surround yourself with people like minded.
May the Lord bless you!
In considering the end times; where we certainly are headed quickly as I see it-we see that proclamations are made beforehand as to the general state of the "last days" such as attitudes of people in 2 Timothy 3 as well as with the 144,000 and the 2 prophets in Revelation. We also see angels themselves as we get to the time the bowl judgments are about to occur as a final warning.
In reality; of course for an unregenerate person it only seals their fate and increases their judgment once their impenitent hearts are challenged. The lack of love of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:10) allows the world to accept the Daniel 9:27 covenant also known as the covenant with death and hell in Isaiah 28:18 which is deliberately agreed upon despite the obvious ramifications.
People as they do now will hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. As with the Prophets of old God says He will do nothing without first revealing the matter to the prophets ( Amos 3:7); and we see this process most clearly it seems with Jeremiah but also of course with the warnings in Deuteronomy as to blessings and cursings. Deuteronomy 30:19 says to choose life and live but of course Jeremiah 17:9 shows the human heart is desperately wicked and who can understand it?
Again a repeated concept here that I have mentioned is that the world is aware of what's coming. It is the same sort of idea when Christ came the first time with the Pharisees denying the obvious and committing the unpardonable blasphemy against the Spirit saying that it is evil; and likely the same sort of thing will be heard by the son of perdition and the world at large once judgments start to fall as we see several times during the bowl judgments ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). He will say "unheard of" things against the Most High ( Daniel 11:36) and will come in his own name yet declare himself to be god (see John 5:43).
We need to be ready to desire seeing the Day of the Lord ( Amos 5:18
Now this again takes some tact and needs to be approached Biblically; and I pray the Lord guides me in this.
Jesus in the passage in the last posting referred to His disciples as "little children". We are never able to get beyond this in a sense even though we are called to grow into solid food in the meat of the Word. Now He foreknew that all but Judas Iscariot would continue in faith until the end. If you look at the narrative it ain't exactly happening on a surface level. The Disciples were acting immature; asking fire to come down from heaven as with Elijah when Jesus wasn't welcomed in a certain town; arguing who was the greatest and of course all including Peter running away when the soldiers came for Him (not to mention falling asleep at His greatest hour of need). Now some of this no doubt was due to their human weaknesses before the Spirit came down at Pentecost. But we see that it indeed IS all Christ who perseveres in His saints through the indwelling and sealing of the Spirit. This is reflected in our obedience and growth; but of course one only needs to read Corinthians as well as Revelation to the churches to see that indeed there are various rewards or lack thereof for individuals. In one sense we don't know everyone's fate as some can make a deathbed confession and what is truly sad is I have heard at least one instance from someone whose mom turned away from Christ near her death. I get no pleasure in mentioning this. We must heed to His warnings because if we let the loss of a lost person control us we will always be bitter toward God and that can't be overcome without true faith.
A true believer knows that without Christ's grace they would never come to God and ultimately if Antichrist came would worship him; that is the case for me and everyone else. Understanding the Jeremiah 17:9 state of our hearts must continue until death.
We are as Jesus stated all "unworthy servants" Lk 17:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Ezekiel 36:24-31
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Thinking outside the box as I tend to like to do means I have to choose my words carefully here. In general I'd say that Romans 5:20 is where I am going with this:
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
When we all came to faith in Christ; we were in fact sinners. Too often I think we focus on sin rather than the cause; our sin NATURE. I hate to capitalize and be obnoxious but some things warrant extra emphasis. Exploring this concept I'd actually add to it and say that in order to justify ourselves not only could this verse be taken out of context; but we indeed wish to retain our old nature as our main goal. Our actions may or many not be considered as to a particular sin but many would surprise themselves when asked months or years before a particular sin is made a habit or lifestyle if they were challenged as to just how wicked their heart is (again; focusing on Jeremiah 17:9). If we are truly His children He will either gently or severely buffet us. I don't know about anyone else here but I suspect we'd rather not get the roughshod treatment.
Anyway as to the original concept here those who are called by the Lord are reached above and beyond their own wickedness and the heart is pricked; the consciousness is stirred up. Jesus made atonement for all sin so that isn't an issue in Him reaching us. We should all consider this unique experience once we consider ourselves to be "seasoned veterans" in faith so we don't indeed lose salt and light and have our salvation experience be some dim past memory. I am convinced that our so called ordinary days are at least as much of importance as those when we are doing God's works such as evangelism or serving others in the Body. May we all put into the storehouse heavenly treasures more than earthly ones that fade away.
Maranatha.
For the believer; worst case scenario as I discussed in several posts already if we suddenly pass away because of God's dealing with sin there is no doubt we would say once all was said and done that "yes; He took me out because I was disobedient" and go on with our heavenly existence not missing this world one iota. Maybe God puts some who were lazy now on heavy prayer duty for others. Anyway I try to not deviate from scripture in my interpretations here. Someone gaining reward; great or small of course casts it at Jesus' feet (not sure the exact timing when crowns come but by the Rapture they are handed out and then cast at His feet). As I said before there will ba a knowing; others will recognize and NOT jealously follow suit in their designated roles as God is fair in all things. We shall know Him as we are known; a rough interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:12.
What we fear other than the accusations regarding sin and Satan giving us a general feeling of dread is losing control; whatever keeps us in our comfort zones; so to speak. I for one am particularly prone to addiction to certain routines; or how I design my day with a sort of attention deficit behavior that I was diagnosed with many decades ago in the stone ages when I was in High School. The enemy has many tricks; if one tactic doesn't work he'll switch to another; whether it is having people try to take advantage of us; seduction; persecution; doubts; failures where we are tempted to be angry; fleshly passions; etc. Need I go on? That is definitely an advantage of those who have the persuasion as I do of the "total depravity" concept; but I will simply use Jeremiah 17:9. Many people sadly don't get it when they say how nice I am and in fact probably are insulted when I say that I have no good in me. Too bad; although I should gratefully accept compliments as it helps to bolster friendships in all honesty most of what I do involves a half hearted effort. I'm very bad.
The concept of total depravity; of course is an attempt to find a definition that fits best the admittedly appalling condition of the human heart as seen in Jeremiah 17:9. Whether we banter about decrying our hopeless condition because of a doctrinal assent of the situation or it is because the love of God constrains us ( 2 Corinthians 5:14) may sound the same on the outside; but it makes all the difference in reaching lost souls in the inside. One only needs to grasp Isaiah 6:5 and other verses on those prophets that saw God's presence and glory to see that this is a default reaction for all men to have. The world at large; of course scanters off in fear; or as Revelation 6:15-17.
Many today are shielded and have a temporary reprieve; as it were who hang around Christians; whether professing faith or not.
The going may be good for now; not to mention having people around who can help out in a pinch; but once the Bride of Christ is raptured; no such protection will continue to exist.
Another concept I'd like to hammer home is that in regard to Predestination (and I have said this before) it is not so much what we do but the reasons for doing it. The world no doubt is enamored with those who give a lot to the poor; and who are influential and everyone seems to live by their own standards but conforms to what is acceptable which reminds us of the Pharisees in Luke 16:15. The Lord did say they would praise God for our good works ( Matthew 5:16). Since He also mentions in the beatitudes blessing those who curse us in the same chapter in verse 44 as well as in Luke's rendition we certainly don't expect praise for the reason we do things but for external actions by some; although in theory those in the body of Christ should recognize such attributes but those who are Godly usually aren't the prominent ones in the Church even genuine works. There are many who make a sideshow for greedy gain ( 1 Tim. 6:10)
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
There is someone who I know professionally who I cannot go beyond the bounds of that who I have in mind writing this post. As I have prayed for her she has split up with her boyfriend where she was likely compromising which is an answered prayer. I am hoping she decides to attend church once again as the enemy would see fit for that not to happen. I will keep her name anonymous but I see great potential as she is a very loving person and since her desire is to see family members saved as I do I believe she is a true Christian. Due to death she has lost much of her immediate family.
Keeping in mind Jeremiah 17:9 we understand that our hearts are desperately wicked apart from His saving grace. Now; our affections are caught between the flesh and the Spirit. "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh." ( Galatians 5:17; but another version).
This verse shows that we can't just live in a vacuum shutting down the flesh but the Spirit must be in control of all things in our hearts. Fellowship of the saints is a healthy thing for a believer IF it is truly that and not something abandoning scriptural protocols and doctrines. One of the pinnacles of this is suffering as a Body of believers. Being insulated from such in our nation we have a few examples of those suffering being a witness for Christ but to find the majority of a local fellowship engaged with the struggle of the Great Commission is also rare. Usually with today's demographics the biggest issue is elderly individuals with physical ailments and it is certainly commendable for those that step up to assist. True religion is helping the orphans and widows ( James 1:27); which I can say our church is doing to some extent.
Let us build one another up in Him.
Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Heaven is; no doubt principally involved with the worship of the Triune God as primary; and relational with fellowship with other saints in His presence as secondary. In those of us in situations where we are single; or have no possibility of having children it can be depressing; admittedly. What is at the heart of any truly Godly relationship is the presence of the Lord; and we are to guard our hearts against anything getting in the way ( Prov. 4:23). As our hearts are desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) we need to take care not to attempt shortcuts or compromise in order to try to give God a "jump start" as to what we desire.
First and foremost the Kingdom of God is to be sought after; and then the Lord will give us the desires of our heart ( Psalm 37:4).
As a jealous God is towards His people ( Exodus 20:5) an earthly marriage in particular should covet the partnership with the covenant spouse in exclusion of all others in certain aspects of intimacy. No doubt there are applications which a couple should learn to practice in reaching out to others by working together as a team; something that takes hard work and sadly in many cases doesn't come to fruition as we often see only one of the two parties committed to local church attendance; etc.
We must remember that as His children ultimately He knows what is best for us. When we compare the eternal weight of glory ( 2 Corinthians 4:17) to our current burdens that gives us a clear perspective on priorities of greater and lesser importance.
I pray this forum will truly continue to help bear one anothers' burdens even with the anonymous forum.
You can find this saying in Jeremiah 17:9
There are many verses in the Bible that show the human nature of Jesus. But also there are many verses that show the divine nature of Jesus. Some of them are many parts of John's gospel (especially the begining) such as John 1:30, John 2:19, John 3:13, John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33, John 14:9-10, John 14:23, John 20:28, Acts 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, Hebrews 1:8, Matthew 1:22-23, 1 Cor 10:9, Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, Zechariah 11:12-13, Romans 9:1-5, and many other that I can not recall now. Jesus also accepted people to kneel infront of Him, something that is only permitted for God. Also compare Psalms 102:25-27 where it talks about God to Hebrews 1:10 where it talks about Jesus. Also compare Joel 3:5 to Acts 9:13. Compare Jeremiah 17:9 to Rev 2:23, etc.
So we have two kinds of scripture. One says that Jesus is human, the other says that Jesus is God. So what do we make out of these two? The obvious, that Jesus is the God, one person of the Godhead, who became man.
Lets think it in another way. We know that God loved people so much so that He sacrificed His own son for us. Now lets use another example. Suppose I love my brother and want to help Him. and the only way to help him is to give my own life for him. How does it seem to you that I would sacrifice instead of my own life, my son's life for Him to help Him? Why my son? And not myself? The most sensible thing is that I would sacrifice my own life for him, not somebody's else. That would be very egoistic. Somebody else to suffer for my intention to help somebody that I love? I think you can understand what I trying to say. So what did God do? He sacrificed Himself for us, one person out of the Godhead took on Him our nature, became a man and gave His life for us. So it is God's love that attracts people to Him. It wouldn't be love if He sacrificed somebody else, an innocent person's life, for his intention to save us. I hope I haven't done it so complicated to understand. GBU
1 Timothy 2:5,
Hebrews 12:24,
Proverbs 3:5 kjv.
I was in my defense looking up a verse 2 Thessalonians 2:10 about those who don't LOVE the truth and hence in the next verse believe THE lie. So I will make that my introduction because I realize the importance of that statement. I was going to bring up the TRUST factor in our faith. IF WE DON'T TRUST God's truth above our emotions we can and WILL be deluded; that has to be paramount in reading scripture not just acquiescence of truth but faith that anything CONTRARY is a lie. Of course (I'll let the reader search for the verse so I am not wiped out again) those who love Christ will obey what He says. There has to be BOTH to demonstrate true faith. That separates those disingenuous professers of faith who have no desire to obey His statutes. That isn't legalism; but means we don't live in a lifestyle of anarchy as the alternative.
I will probably do a series here on the flesh as it is such an enemy; our greatest enemy most of the time no doubt. It is more than just self denial or mutilation that is scriptural; it is putting to death the deeds of the flesh. This separates those who have some martyr complex; i.e. suffering just for the sake of proving something about themselves as opposed to taking part in Christ's sufferings. We; of course can't suffer and die for other's sins as He did; but nonetheless the privilege of suffering is given to us ultimately as a blessing because we are tested as gold in the fire and can look forward to great reward.
It is hard to comprehend the sway that these prosperity preachers have until we understand as Jeremiah 17:9 states of the sickness and depravity of men's hearts (in this case covetousness). Each of us however in our own way have gone astray in like manner; just with different sins.
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
A quick overview of the entire chapter of Ezekiel 36 shows that the meaning is primarily in the exodus and eventual regathering of God's people. When we get into a couple chapters later we enter the Ezekiel 38 war which continues showing the fate of nations that fight against Israel. This verse also is used to demonstrate the change in each believer's state; as opposed to the condition mentioned in Jeremiah 17:9 on how deceitful and wicked man's unregenerate heart nature is.
The principle involved in the nation of Israel repenting is found in this verse: Romans 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
The Lord will therefore use the time of "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7) to put the Jews through the fire; and at that time 2/3 will perish and 1/3 make it through ( Zechariah 13:8) which signifies the refining fire. Naturally this is preceded by the arrival of the false messiah who will be venerated by many until the time mentioned in Isaiah 10:20 which would be at the midpoint of the Tribulation.
The new covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31 and the next several verses after also could be applied to that which Christ accomplished for those in the church (or church age). It's final fruition will finally reach Israel who rejected the first coming of their king because they didn't recognize Him as the suffering servant; and or assumed He would immediately overtake their enemies and start an earthly Kingdom.
In general I would state that every age or dispensation has a similar fate; a beginning and end. Israel had several Diasporas and in the last days the church in general will fall away.
I may want to define sin and being God's enemy as a unit conceptually. As for sin; I have stated repeatedly that our external actions (fruits) are symptoms of the root cause that is s sin nature which stems from verses such as Jeremiah 17:9 on the state of the heart of man (not good). It would seem that being God's enemy is beyond even just that concept of our heart and actions.
Unbelief; it would seem is up there as one of the top evils along with pride. That is; of course defined as true unbelief as the Pharisees demonstrated around Christ when miracles could not be denied and they attributed them to Beelzebub ( Matt. 12:24).
This is not as some falsely claim not believing in what some say are miracles with unsubstantiated evidence.
Of course it is in some sense a greater thing to forgive sins which the Pharisees knew only God could do; hence accused Christ of blasphemy when he asked which was greater that or healing ( Matt. 9:8). Whether that or a physical healing with Christ something came from nothing; and in the case of men they need a heart of stone to be turned to a heart of flesh (Ez. 36:26).
We cannot ignore obvious resistance to God when the Gospel is presented; as well as with using His name in vain. Man's sins are exponentially more resistant with the affective opposition of the enemy and his minions. When seeking the Lord there are testimonies from those especially from backgrounds in the occult where the individual becomes aware of entities working through themselves as well as others. When reality dawns on these individuals their true nature is exposed; and often demons need to be cast out. I have stated previously that testimonies tend to be heavily skewed toward God giving freedom from this oppression at the expense of understanding our own wickedness and having a reverent fear of the Lord. Some seem to ignore the spiritual battle in giving testimony of being saved.
You've given some Scriptures here David0921, to which I will respond.
Romans 9:13-16. From Romans 9:1-23, the apostle is speaking about his kinsmen, the Jews; that God had selected Isaac through whom would come Jacob & all of Israel - as opposed to Esau (who was rejected), even though he was the firstborn. All this Paul rehearses before his readers to show that God's promises will be realized, according to His Word, that "In Isaac shall thy seed be called". God was not being partial to one & not the other, but in God's Knowledge & Plan, one was accepted to the rejection of the other.
Here then is God's selection process - not for salvation (since each person has to demonstrate faith & love to God regardless of which tribe or nation they belong to), but of election & receiving the Promises of God. And so Paul goes on in Romans 9:24-33, to show that those of Israel who have rejected the LORD, & not come by faith ( Romans 9:30-32), have been cut out of the olive tree, with the Gentiles being engrafted in (only if the Gentiles stand in faith, Romans 11:20). Why have I written all this? Only to show that the process of leading to salvation (which we're discussing now) is not revealed here, but of who are God's Elect - that the Gospel would now go to the Gentiles, the Jew having rejected it ( Acts 13:46-48).
Jeremiah 17:9. Fully agree as mentioned previously.
Joel 2:12-14. You might need to give your reason for mentioning this Scripture, as I'm unable to relate it to what we're discussing.
Ezekiel 36:24-28. I understand this passage is still in the future (probably during the Millennial rule of Christ), when Israel finally acknowledges their Messiah, receiving a new heart & new spirit. Btw, I do NOT subscribe to Replacement Theology, inasfar as Israel no longer being a part of prophetic fulfilment and the Church is now the new Israel.
To Page 2.
Romans 9:13-16
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is NOT OF HIM THE WILLETH, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Jeremiah 17:9 The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Joel 2:12-14
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with ALL YOUR HEART, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. 14 WHO KNOWETH if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Ezekiel 36:24-28
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eph 2:1,8-10
1 And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You quoted Romans 10-8-10.
Note the emphasis in these verses on "believing in the HEART""
Jeremiah 17:9,10
The HEART is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the HEART, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
And then there is Romans 3:10-18
There in lies the problem.
We cannot and will not "Believe in the heart" until God gives us a NEW HEART, that is a New Resurrected Soul.
Ezekiel 36:26
A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
We must be Born Again as God applies His Salvation to those whom He saves BEFORE we can believe with our whole heart.
That is Salvation. And our Belief, our Faith is the RESULT of God applying salvation to one of His elect. And is not because we have "accepted" an offer of salvation.
I have stated before that counseling in churches before marriage is helpful but may be hard to find; I would think it would be more common in the Reformed church; or OPC where I got my counselling after separating from my wife (something I should have done a lot sooner). "Irreconcilable differences" I suppose was the wording in my divorce papers. In terms of "communication issues" it has been said that is a lame term; probably in part because there is enough yelling that the point should get across from either party in such matters but no one really has a heart to listen.
Of course we all need to consider Jeremiah 17:9 on the state of the heart. Also; of course the concept of a church being a family of sorts was something I am partially responsible for messing up as shortly after we were married we moved away from her home town and stopped being involved in church. Her support system was something that was never fully restored when we moved back again to Pittsburgh but I also was noncommittal and too wrapped up on eschatological issues since they were rather adamantly Post-Mil. As an immature believer at that time I made a lot of mistakes; so I do thank God that now I am able to have been more involved with evangelism; and made a true commitment as a church member; etc.
The fact is; with her working with this guy for nearly 12 years before the "crap hit the fan" or I finally became aware of her infidelity what happened may have been inevitable. Also in eternity it is worth following the Lord now and any sacrifices that need to be made. Overall; I have stated on this site at least one time if not more that there is a blessing to the covenant of marriage and on the flipside; I believe divorce started family decay which has led to the abyssmal state of society overall today.
Agape. Rich P
The Spirit of the Lord should be what guards our heart ( Prov. 4:23); keeps the reins of our heart in check ( Jeremiah 17:10); gives us the mind of Christ ( 1 Cor. 2:16) as well as communing with our soul ( Romans 8:16).
As ironic as it seems; it may be often best to focus on prayers for our enemies rather than friends. With any kind of healing; there is the tendency because of our own emotional connection to desperately ask for relief from pain and suffering of any sort for those we know and love. What we fail to see sometimes especially with those we are familiar with is that God often uses suffering as a form of chastisement to get someone's attention and turn to the Lord. Obviously we shouldn't be the arbitrators of what kind of test others should go through and deliberately hold ack on prayers either. As we study persevering in prayer; we should also learn to sense the course of events the Lord is directing in an individuals life over time and tweek the prayer appropriately.
Mental healing: This subject of course intersects with emotions and physiological factors; such as Dopamine levels. Actual brain damage may be involved as well as unknown factors. Overall; of course patterns of behavior will bring healing as one focuses their energies on study of the Word and living out a Godly and obedience life of service to the Lord and of course turns away from worldliness. Those too fixated on faith healing at the expense of anything else are missing out on even Paul's example of his thorn in the flesh. Many are able to sympathize with others who are down and out; and the transparency of our own strugles can be a real inspiration and valuable in evangelism. This is more than the boasting of how depraved we are; although incorporates an internal comprehension of our good deeds being filthy rags before conversion. What it DOES show is unconditional love and an open heart to ruined sinners.
Romans 5:12 says Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
The fact is that we are all born with Adam's sin and hence at enmity with God. Our hearts are as Jeremiah 17:9 says "desperately wicked." No one does good ( Romans 3:10-12 and in Psalms); and we are estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3). So the first issue is the thought that anyone is "good" which inevitably comes from comparing ourselves to another "worse" person like Hitler (unless we are that bad ourselves and we can't appeal to anyone worse; in that case we probably wouldn't want to concern ourselves with doing good deeds. Our deeds also; BTW are evil; even our best deeds as "filthy rags". ( Isaiah 64:6). This "grace Gospel" as it is known is obviously taken from Romans as a primary source but reflects many scripture verses. Or as someone once said "a hundred percent sinner needs a hundred percent savior" (can't seem to find this entire phrase quoted by anyone).
Now death; of course in the law comes in two ways; MURDER or justifiable killing whether to exact a punishment "a life for a life" (part of Deuteronomy 19:21). It also is involved with the wars and conquests of Israel with the admittedly hard verses about exterminating entire peoples including women and children in certain circumstances. The understandable aspect of this is when the descendents of the Nephilim (or angels with women producing giant hybrid offspring) were exterminated; being an aberrant being without and eternal soul perhaps the proper interpretation of Isaiah 26:14. That is a deep study; but no doubt this is easier than explaining extermination of human beings. Those nations which were conquered had common practices of child sacrifice with idol worship; therefore it could have saved the children from a worse death. Genesis 15:16 shows how God waits until iniquity is full before utter destruction.