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There are two major errors as we head towards the Tribulation. One is the increasing number of those rejecting the God of the Bible and espousing a violent revolution; the other is what I believe is the genesis of the "Mystery Babylon" end time one world religion which basically holds to a tenet that man is basically good; and they can be somehow convinced to act upon these innate desires to bring some sort of utopian peace on earth. Such will bring about the first seal with the false peace of Antichrist on a ready and willing world population. Everyone; of course will be given a chance to join that bandwagon; as surely those espousing violence are somehow disenfranchised; explaining their behavior. Thus comes the covenant with "death and hell" knowingly made at that time according to Isaiah 28:15.
One could merely read the beatitudes or other verses about "good works" in the scriptures and somehow think that by doing certain actions they are following the Gospel. Outwardly perhaps; but not inwardly in the heart as man cannot love those who hate them and despitefully use them without the Spirit's assistance ( Matt. 5:44). We cannot; as Joni Mitchell states in the 1969 song "Woodstock" go back to the garden. The exaltation of man as though he has some redeeming quality started to gain popularity in the 19th Century "enlightenment" period.
When we look at other writings outside the Bible; it is certain that certain moral themes are more or less covered in these texts which are similar to scripture. We can see the same thing; of course in pagan cultures with the theme of a virgin giving birth with Isis and Osiris. The Bible is the written Word of God; even if some earlier texts were written down beforehand. God Himself wrote the 10 commandments on stone ( Ex. 31:18). He is the source of all truth; moral and otherwise and has taken care that the revealed Word was preserved and also became flesh ( John 1:14).
This we can understand from the second time God appeared unto the wise king.
"That theLordappeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon./And theLordsaid unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually./And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments:/Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel(1 Ki.9:2-5)".
This shows the temple built by Solomon ceased to be a temple of God when he fell away from his singleminded devotion because of his many wives."Can two walk together, except they be agreed?(Amos3:3)" King Solomon began well as the nation of Israel did. In their apostasy they ceased to be the apple of His eye and all desolations predicted by Jeremiah became real. Jesus drew away those who did business in the temple courts,"....And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves(Matt.21:12-13)".This clearly establishes temples of man hold in themselves no value without establishing the connection with the Word ( John 1:1), in other words, the everlasting covenant.
Our bodies as a temple is an idea and it is valid because of the everlasting covenant. Our individual covenant by blood is carried over into the everlasting covenant. The testimony of Jesus Christ,"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven"
You asked:How is Jesus and God one,and Jesus was sent by God?
Now,didn't you(and all like you)still understand or interpret this mystery?Does not the Word testify that He is GOD?Yes,He does. The Word is GOD,self-executing or self-executable,understand?The Word is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word has not beginning,neither ending.As you and all know,JESUS is the beginning and the ending
For clarifying the great and deep MYSTERY of GOD sent JESUS,and both the Father and the Son be One,hope that you and all understand meditating in what the Word Himself said by/through His prophet Isaiah around year750BC- Isaiah 9:6-7:
6For unto us a child is born,unto us a Son is given:and the government shall be upon His shoulder:and His NAME shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The MIGHTY GOD(Mat.28:18 and Rev.1:8,among biblical references),The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace
7Of the increase of His government( Revelation 11:15-18)and peace there shall be no end,upon the Throne of David,and upon His KINGDOM,to order it,and to ESTABLISH IT with Judgment and with Justice from henceforth even for ever.The ZEAL of the LORD of hosts will perform this
Then,having passed around 750years after the Word have said prophetically the message above through His servant Isaiah,by the way,Isaiah is one of the 24 elders,the Word LITERALLY fulfilled His wonderful promise to send His Son,exactly in the END of the 4th Day and beginning of the 5th Day,actually in the TURN from the 4th to the 5th millennium after Adam,or 2000 years ago.THEN the Word was MADE FLESH,as said John Apostle- John 1:14-,and dwelt among us,(and we beheld His glory,the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)-JESUS WAS BORN-full of grace and truth
Heb.1:1-3->1GOD,who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2-Has in these last days spoken unto us by His Son...3 Who being the brightness of His glory,the EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE PERSON OF GOD...
This is a difficult subject to discuss openly. Being one is to be united in the holy love of God. The way we can do this is to become one with His Son, Jesus Christ the only way to the Father, John 14:6. When a man and woman are married, they become one as we through faith become one in Jesus. When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist Jesus was filled without measure with the Holy Ghost/Spirit, God's Spirit, John 3:34.
God was manifested in Jesus, John 14:10 1 Tim. 3:10. Jesus was the Tabernacle of God, John 10:38. Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30 and Jesus told us we can be one as He and the Father are one, John 17:20-23. Jesus did nothing on His own, only the will of the Father, Jesus was obedient to the Father, Rom. 5:19 and as you said, Jesus was sent by the Father, John 5:30. The doctrine Jesus laid out was not His doctrine but His who sent Him, the Father, John 7:16.
All things are delivered unto Jesus of the Father, Matt. 11:27 and all in heaven and earth is under Jesus's feet, 1 Cor. 15:27 and will be until the last enemy is under His feet, that is death, Rev. 20:14. Jesus said the Father was greater than Him, John 14:28. Scripture says Jesus has a God, 2 Cor. 11:3 1 Eph. 1:3 Eph. 1:17 Col 1:3 Jesus said He had a God John 20:17.
In the garden, Jesus prayed to the Father that the cup He was about to partake could pass if there was another way, but said not His will but the Father's will, Matt. 26:39. All the introductions, greetings, and blessings in the Scriptures in the New Testament that are given to the followers of Christ and called to be saints from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, two not three.
Rom. 1:7-8 1 Cor. 1:3-4 1 John 1:3 2 John 1:3 2 Cor. 1:2-3 Gal. 1:3-4 Eph. 1:2-3 Phil. 1:2 Col. 1:2-3 2 Thess.1:2 1 Tim.1:2 2 Tim.1:2 Titus 1:4 Philemon 1:3 2 Pet. 1:2.
You must study the Scriptures letting the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God guide you to your understanding, not from my reply, or man.
God bless,
RLW
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a FLOOD after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the FLOOD which the dragon cast out of his mouth.( See Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation 16:13-15. And Get ready)
17 And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.(that is the Spirit of prophecy- Revelation 19:10)
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle (by allegory, the OLD and New Testaments- Revelation 11:3), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent(the red Dragon). ---> (By the way, JESUS said for the Devil: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD". The Word is GOD- John 1:1. The Words that came from the MOUTH of GOD are written in the Bible, you know?)
Was Satan, the MAN of sin, son of perdition, born?(2Thes.2:3-4) Yes, he was, of course, decades ago.
(baptistboard.co - (Baptist Christian Forums )
Get ready, yeah, get ready
Greetings in Christ JESUS
just to remember :
NATION shall rise against NATION ... Will be G7, and G-20, and UN, among other World Entites, DISSOLVED?
Get ready, yes, get ready
Our GOD is in control of History, nothing random happens.
Remember: Our GOD rests of His works in this seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium after Adam. By the way, GOD sent JESUS - the Word made flesh( John 1:14), He is the true God, and eternal life, and we know that the Son of GOD came (IN THE FOURTH DAY- John 5:17, take a look, or around 4000 years after Adam, even around 2000 years ago), and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is True, and we are in Him that is True, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and Eternal life- 1John 5:19-20.
Our Lord JESUS said: All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Our Lord JESUS will exert all His Power from this beginning of this seventh and final millennium to destroy the works of the Devil, to destroy the Devil's WORLD with its all kind of structures: religious, and economic,social,military, among other systems of the satanic organizations and systems.By the way, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever- Revelation 11:15-18.Take a look.
By the way, one of the 7 heads of the MAN Beast of sea- Revelation 13:1-10- will be wounded to death; but his deadly wound will be healed (but how? well, the dragon( Revelation 13:11, will give to the MAN Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority- Revelation 13:2), and all the world ( Luke 21:24 combined with Revelation 11:2) will wonder after the MAN Beast of sea.
Be careful and get ready
Well, Celebration of the Lamb's marriage? ONLY AFTER THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON. (see the site of purebibleforum)
Revelation 18:4- Come out of her,my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Get ready
I have FAITH in the finished WORKS of Christ.
( Rom. 3:10)"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
( Rom. 3:23)"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
It is because of that FAITH that leads me in to a life of OBEDIENCE.
( Rom. 4:4)"Now to him that WORKETH is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT."
(1 John 1:6) "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and WALK in DARKNESS, WE LIE, and DO NOT THE TRUTH:"
( 2 Cor. 6:17) "Wherefore COME OUT from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,"
( Heb. 11:8) "BY FAITH Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, OBEYED; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."
Jordyn You should know that you cannot profess a FAITH in Christ yet WALK in DARKNESS
( Mat. 6:24)"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
We have to be cautious of the "subtle" things or I might as well continue smoking cigarettes, commit fornication, adultery and thievery so long as I BELIEVE. No, I want to have FULL OBEDIENCE.
( Rev 3:16) "So then because thou art LUKEWARM, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."
You are explaining something I already understand quite well.
Again I thank you for your time and patience. you have helped me in some areas of which I am really grateful for.
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
To comment the first sentence of your post-part 2-, be sure that what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD- John 1:1, self-executing, understand?
What does the Word of GOD say?
2Thessalonians 2:3-6 and 9-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. The verbiage your spirit manifested in your reply is good for nothing.
The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth, the one who comes from above is above all- John 3:31 combined with Ephesians 1:3, among other Scriptures.
Be careful of then get ready
Firstly, I dind't understand reading your reply-part 1- why you have started it running away from the main focus of my post, I did not write anything about crucifixion and resurrection of JESUS, so, what you wrote has nothing to do with Matthew 24.
Your spirit tried to justify this undesirable behavior mentioning Acts 1:6-7. But the worst is that you surreptitiously said that "cannot see-the disciples- ASKING JESUS for a SIGN of His second coming, the wording of Matt. 24:3:
Now, now, then you confess you BELIEVE NOT in the Holy Scriptures, in what is written in the Book of the Lord- Matthew 24:3-4KJV:
-3...the disciples came unto JESUS privately, literally saying,"Tell us...what shall be the SIGN of THY COMING, and of the END the WORLD?"
-4 JESUS answered and said unto the disciples(AND TO ME TOO),Take heed that no man deceive you. As you can see, you did not deceive me with your words, actually it is impossible you deceive me.
In your third sentence you confess that years ago was like a dog studing end-time prophecies, and reading Matthew 4 "the words looked like they were 20 times larger it was like they were jumping off the page" , I must say i don't believe in cunningly devised fables.
You said "that a warning we need to take to heart, your studies changed from then on you still can say you have much to learn", ok in fact you "have much to learn" as you said, you have lamp but it already went out then your spirit tries to feed you with chaff and tares according to your reply.
My Lord JESUS left very very clear,saying: Matthew 12:35-37KJV
35 ... an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36But I say unto you,That every IDLE WORD that men shall speak,they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment(that is the seventh and last Day,or seventh and last millennium).
37For by thy words thou shalt be justified,and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
The Word is GOD- John 1:1,self-executing.Take care or get ready
To continue in my study on Who God truly is I move on to "L" and meditate on God as being LIFE.
God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14 as "I AM WHO I AM" which speaks to His self-existence. He does not derive His existence from any other, nor did He ever begin to exist at any time, nor will He ever not exit. This is impossible for Him.
When He calls Himself "I AM, it is perhaps one of the profoundest statement we can know. HE IS!
He is clearly stating that He exists, o if, and, or buts about it. He has always existed, and will exist forever.
John 1:4 says that Life is in God. He is the source of all life. Because He is the Life. john 11:25 Jesus calls Himself the Resurrection and the Life. John 5:26 Jesus says that He has Life within Himself just as the Father has life within Himself. Thus saying that He is God , just as the Father is God. John 6:63 Jesus says that the Spirit gives life, affirming that the Spirit is God. And with these statements Jesus is saying that within the Godhead there are three who together gives life since they are Life itself. Nothing comes into existence without being created by God and it is He who give any creature life. In John 6:63.
God made us. Each person of the Godhead is involved in giving us life because they are Life itself, as Jesus says in John 14:6 when He says that He is the way, the truth, and the life.
Romans 5:10 speaks of how we are saved through the life of Christ. By the power of God's everlasting life, Jesus' body was resurrected from the dead and lives forever. This is how we receive salvation. Because He lives, we will live. And since all people ever created receive their natural life from God, those who are chosen by God to be saved, receive their spiritual life from God as well. see part 2
You appear to be someone who is interested in what the Bible has to say to us, even considering the rich heritage that both the descendants of Isaac & Ishmael share from the olden days. In your consideration of this prophetical Book of Isaiah, we need to remember that this book & indeed all the Bible Books are written in an historical & chronological manner. Unlike the Qur'an, where the writings are purportedly made from isolated revelations received over a period of time, the Books of the Bible were written by men moved by God's Spirit ( 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), but were given in a systematic historical way. So when we take a verse or portion of the Bible to teach or defend a belief, then we must look at the whole - or else, our understanding will be skewed & we will be led into error.
Since you're looking at the prophecies in Isaiah, if you would care to begin at Isaiah 13:1 right through to Isaiah 23:18, and you will notice a series of denunciations by God against particular lands/nations. Through his prophet Isaiah, God denounces Babylon, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethopia, Egypt, Babylon (again), Edom, Arabia (the part you're referring to), Jerusalem, & Tyre. So when you refer to Isaiah 21:13, the specific passage is from Isaiah 21:13-17, where God's Judgement is found in verse 16, that "within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail". Even though Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe, the reference here are to all connected to her. All these suffered judgement under God's Hand.
But at the appointed time, God sent forth His Son Jesus, the One Who came to receive our judgement & punishment upon Himself (for our sins). Without Him we would all be condemned, but those who believed on Him would receive forgiveness ( John 1:11,12).
We are the third heaven, where God dwells, the third heaven, the (literal) body of Christ, the third heaven, Christ in the flesh the second time, the NEW heaven, the third heaven, the Kingdom on God on earth.
Revelation is symbolic, the 1000 year reign, is symbolic of ONE DAY, the Day of the Lord, when all flesh was raised AS ONE FLESH, the flesh and bone of Christ.
This ONE DAY, has been on earth now for 2000 years, and will never be anywhere but on earth.
At present, we are the (literal) body of Christ, when harvested, we will still be the (literal) body of Christ, BUT, in the twinkling of an eye, switch bodies: we will be given HIS RESURRECTED body, our flesh and blood body cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
1000 years has and end, the DAY of the Lord has no end, everytime the clock shows 11:59:59 PM, the next tick becomes TODAY, the Day of the LORD, world without end, TODAY, the DAY of SALVATION.
We were promised where Christ is: WE WILL BE ALSO, Christ is in man, omnipresent, as the spirit of truth, bring man into the TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE of Kingdom of God.
Revelation 10:11 .... Thou must prophecy AGAIN before many peoples, and nation, and tongues, and kings.
Jacobs ladder, in Genesis, is symbolic of the harvested SEED ascending and descending on Christ.
John 1:51 ... I say unto you, HEREAFTER ye shall see (the third) heaven OPEN, and the angels of God (ministering spirit) ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.
God BLESS YOU!
I receive not testimony from man. I receive not honour from men.
What matters and prevails is what is written the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD - John 1:1- , self-executing, don't you understand?
I receive not testimony from man. He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth.
Your words mean nothing, they are good for nothing, they are insignificant, in fact a trap that sounds surreptitiously from a disguised and cunning spirit. I receive not honour from men.
What matters and prevails is what is written the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD - John 1:1- , self-executing, understand?
What does the Word of GOD say? By the way, the Word is GOD, understand? John 1:1
Matthew 1:1 to 17
1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
No, not in the frame of what you're implying.
Quoting you
There is a definition that's given to us here. It says we are in the flesh if we don't have Christ. If we are not "born again" we have an illegitimate claim at being a true believer.
Whereas, those who are born again do belong to Christ & has been gather unto the Gardener.
Yet those who are in the work of sanctification of the Spirit.
They are true believers too, & belong to Christ, having received of God the gift of faith, from hearing the Word of God in their hearts to the working out of their salvation,& by that gift of faith, they receive ever increasing measures of His Spirit Gal 3:2
Hebrews 12:1 wherefore lay aside the sin that doth so easily beset us. They believe & are in the work of regeneration.
Hebrews 12:4,5,6,7,8 Holy Spirit calls them His children & He's their Father, they belong to Him
Hebrews 12:9-11 afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby, & why? Because they have become partakers of His holiness, the Divine Nature
So in the cleansing work of making holy, their growing from faith to faith & from glory to glory being brought to the baptismal of the Holy Spirit to be dead unto sin, born again of the incorruptible Seed.
Friend,
The path is straight & the gate is narrow indeed that leads to life & few there be that find it, for some then, its to narrow for them to enter. Yet our Leader has plainly mark the path for us, He takes us by the hand & leads us in the very same path that He Himself walked in, wherein He received of the Father all His glory, & so shall we, for all that would believe all things are possible. Isa 42:16 the just Rom 1:17
Its not from the studying of the letter, as one would for any other endeavor, by the art of human science, but a total resolution of one spirit to empty oneself & be guided & taught of God's Spirit John 1:9 Titus 2:11 within one's own conscience. The Immanuel of God, who is within us.
But I don't agree with what Jesse implying, its unscriptural, against sound reasoning & Christ Spirit bears witness against it in my heart.
Some comments about God. I will repeat some of your comments and add some more, what I understand of Him.
God is invisible. No man has ever seen God, nor he can because they will die.
So do we know anything about God or not, or do we know God or not? Has anybody gone up there and saw Him, and His surroundings, has anybody talked to Him face to face to tell us something about Him? How does He really look like? How is His character? What is He like really?
Although God has revealed to people in the OT many things about Himself, it seems those were not enough for us to have a relatively good knowledge of Him. Only some general things about Him.
In John 1:18 Jesus says,, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him"
So it was Jesus who told us everything about God. Actually everybody who gets to know Jesus, he actually gets to know Father as well, since they are completely indentical, in character, power, nature ..., everything. Like Jesus said to Phillip the one who sees Jesus has seen God the Father Himself. Of course Jesus doesn't mean here the external appearance of God.
There is a very nice verse in Hebrews 1:2-3
"2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds
3. Who (Jesus) being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Jesus is the visible brightness of the invisible glory of God, He is the express image of the invible image of God. After all that how can one claim that Jesus is not God?
But how is God's external appearance. The truth is that we don't know. Some say His is like a man, taking into account some descriptions in the Bible. Others say that He only uses such expressions for Himself to make us feel comfortable with Him.
Acts 17:29 states:
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
God has many warnings in scripture regarding not making idols of created beings or heavenly objects such as the moon and stars. This verse shows how God cannot be reduced to a man made concept or picture.
Colossians 1:15 states: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." This verse is discussing Christ who although He came in a man is part of the Godhead; so certainly we shouldn't have images of Him either; especially to be venerated or worshipped. As to whether; say a stained glass window is equally offensive we have to look to the heart of those who are attending a church service; as sadly some even with such an object as that will find some feature that seems to have some supernatural light in the image which is idolotry. The same could be said for the Apostles on such imagery; a Protestant wouldn't have any desire normally to make it an idol; but other denominations such as Greek Orthodox have statues of "saints" which clearly constitute worship that is against scripture.
John 1:18 states that no man has ever seen God but in Christ we in a sense see Him. His attributes including the Godhead are said to be clear from creation ( Romans 1:20). This was said to be known from the time of Creation according to the beginning of this verse. This shows that only later the nations departed from the knowledge that Adam and his immediate descendants would have instilled in them; there was deliberate rebellion against the Creator throughout the earth; both after the garden and after the flood with the tower of Babel and then God confusing the languages and scattering men throughout the earth (see Genesis 10:25 on likely splitting off of continents and dispersion of men).
The Word is from everlasting to everlasting, He has not begining nor ending. JESUS is the begining. The Word is GOD-John1:1-, The same was in the beginning -was in JESUS-with GOD- John 1:2. As said the angel of the Lord -John the Baptist - "No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared Him". Isaiah 9:6 - Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. JESUS said: I and my Father are One( John 10:30), and All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth- Matthew 28:18.
Who knows GOD? Who knows JESUS? Even JESUS Himself said: No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him- Matthew 11:27. It's it.
1John 1:3 John was speaking on the other side of the baptizmal of the Christ, he knew in power of being dead unto sin,
& the power of the resurrection of Christ within Him, joining Him to Christ & the Father John 17:21-24 in a consummate intimate fellowship which he explains to His children "that your joy maybe full, which they had & are experiencing in a measure; as they continue in the working out of their salvation, steadfast & confident unto the end.
We ourselve experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them. His Presence increases in our lives, receving more of His Spirit by the hearing & obedience of Faith, which gives & increases us in what John say later "an understanding" 1John 5:20 & a part of this understanding is Philippians 4:13 which we have received.
Could non-believers read this epistles & become believers, of course; Mark 9:23 This is the heart of God Isa 49:6 Acts 13:47
in love & truth
Grace be to you
Thanks for your response and sharing your understanding of this scripture. I will continue to pray, study and research this as I want to keep an open mind. There has been some controversy over the years regarding exactly when, who and where the letters of 1John were presented, and to whom. Most agree, the letters would have been presented to wide gatherings of people in multiple places, which in all probability could include large audiences of not only believers, but also unbelievers.
It makes sense that John may have wanted to reach out and provide his messages to as many people as possible.
With that said, I was only commenting on 1 John verses 1-10, and as I read and understand these 10 verses, I still believe John was reaching out to the unsaved/nonbelievers in these particular verses. Not to dissect each verse I will present a key verse that sways me in my current understanding.
1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
John says that which we (Christians) have seen and heard we declare unto you (Christians already know this, he must be reaching out to others) John goes on to say: that ye also may have fellowship with us (Christians are already in fellowship, he is speaking to others that are not currently in fellowship) John then says: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ (Existing Christians would already be in fellowship with the these entities)
I do agree the remaining chapters in 1 John 2,3,4 and 5 were directed at existing Christians.
GBU
Lets look at what John says
In the context of what I previously wrote to you,
1John 1:4 1John 2:3 they're learning to know Him & are experiencing a measure of His joy & he encourages them to continue, that their joy made be full as they grow toward being born again of the of the Spirit by the Incorruptible Seed---unbeliever doesn't know this
1John 1:7 an unbeliever does not walk in the Light
1John 2:1 He calls them his little children, new converts
Would he call unbelievers, his little children?
1John 2:7 he calls them his brethren
1John 2:8 because the darkness is pass & the true Light now shines "past tense" they're believers working out their salvation
1John 2:12 calling them little children again, their past sins having been forgiven
1John 2:13 describing the progressional work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, from children, to young men, to fathers
1John 2:21 but because you know it, they're believers
1John 2:27 they have received the Anointing, must be believers,
1John 3:1-3 revealing again God's love to His own, they have this hope in the working out of the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirt unto the new creature ,to be pure, even as He is pure
Dan; the whole epistle is full of this, you mention unbelievers needs to be cleanse, yes, but so does new believers as they grow in Grace, learning to pick up the cross & deny self & learn, know & put on Christ.
once we come to be believers in the Light, then the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience begins, for example;
Just look at our own lives, we both believe & as we continue to walk in the Light, learning Him in which in this learning of Him we fall many times, yet we continue, step by step He cleanses us, eventually overcoming all sin, thoroughly purge, & are baptize by Christ, become dead unto sin, the born again experience. This is what John is revealing to His little children.
An unbeliever does not know this,
Hope this clears the mist
Thanks for you your input here regarding the ongoing topic of sin. You may in fact agree with Jessie regarding the scripture 1John:1-10 being directed at believers, but I will continue to believe that John is speaking to unbelievers/possible new converts, unless you can show me in scripture that I'm in error.
John is referring to (We) and (Them) a lot. Who is the We? Who is the Them? I believe if we breakdown the scripture we will know who these (2) groups are that he is referring to. These (2) two groups are not alike. One group is nothing like the other group. Indeed, the people in one group are the exact opposite of what the Bible describes as a Christian.
1John 1:3 (unbelievers) They do not have fellowship with us as we have with God.
We Christians: We have fellowship with Christ and all of the members of His Body. 1Cor 1:9 and 1John 1:7
1John 1:5 (unbelievers) They need to hear the message that John has heard.
We Christians: We have heard the message and have believed. Romans 10:17
1John 1:6 (unbelievers) They lie and do not live by the truth.
We Christians: We have already met the Truth and we walk by the Truth. John 14:6 2John 1:4
1John 1:7 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all sin.
We Christians: We have been purified from all sin. Heb 10:10
1John 1:8 (unbelievers) They are deceived.
We Christians: We are filled with the Spirit of Truth. John 14:17
1John 1:9 (unbelievers) They need to be purified from all unrighteousness.
We Christians: We have received the gift of forgiveness, and have been made righteous. 1Cor 6:11. Eph 1:7
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) They are calling God a liar.
We Christians: We agree with God. Romans 10:9-13
1John 1:10 (unbelievers) God's word has no place in their lives.
We Christians: God's word lives in us. 1Thes 2:13
Hope this helps.
GBU
Jesse A, is right,
John is speaking to believers who are in the progressional stages of "sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus". they're learning & putting on Christ in ever increasing measures, yet they have not yet attain to the baptismal of Christ were self is crucified & they are "dead unto sin" but are in the working out of their salvation with fear & trembling, revealing the true fear of the Lord is working within their hearts, to depart from all evil.
In this ever increasing measures of growth in Christ/Grace/Light/Spirit 1John 1:8 is refer too, John commands them to 1John 2:1 keep repenting, remaining tender to the motions of His Spirit, with a heart devoted to the fear of the Lord until the appointed time of the Father when we are baptize with the baptismal of Christ, " thoroughly purged". We having experientially learnt the struggles of Rom 6 & 7 and have been brought to Rom 8:1,2 & their is no condemnation because His Word has
Isa 55:11, go & sin no more, we have been brought through 1Pet 5:10 in Christ, born again of the Incorruptible Seed & thus become incorruptible too, by the Cross/ Spirit / Grace / Light shining in our hearts & received John 1:12
through all these experiences in the working out of our salvation & in our continuing to perfecting of holiness in the love & fear of God, ever growing in Grace, we can say with John, 1John 1:1-3
Oh, praise the Lord, Psalms 62:5 Proverbs 23:18
2 Timothy 2:19 Psalms 93:5 " who houses we are"
the LORD, strengthen & encourage you
He is not speaking to believers here in 1John:8 he is speaking to unbelievers! He is hoping to gain new converts to fellowship with as you will see if you read the proceeding verses like 1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
Read on my friend. As believers we should be already be walking in truth 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
1 John 2:6
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
1 John 3:6
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
As Christians we should stop telling ourselves and others that we can never stop sinning. This is a defeatist attitude and comes not from Jesus or God. In many places Jesus tells us nothing is impossible if we have Faith!
Read and Believe
Part 2.
Continuing my response to part 1.
Again, we have Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
(No believer has an evil heart of unbelief). The writer is saying examine yourself. Verse 10 he says, "They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
You emphasized 1 John 1;7.
I say: IF we are saved, we ARE walking in the light! if we are not in the light we ARE in darkness!
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:6-7. (This is confirmation of salvation, not earning it or trying not to lose it.)
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on the verses you addressed in part 4 being that I have already gave my interpretation on these verses.
However, I would like to address 1 Timothy 4:1. In Part 3.
See Part 3.
There was a question posted few weeks, regarding The Gift of The Holy Spirit.
Part 1
-I believe Jesus Christ is the son of the Living God and He died on the Cross for my sins, and He was buried and rose on the third Day and He is sited at the right hand of the father, and He is our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
-Brethren bear this in mind that God is the same and He does not change.
As it is written Malachi 3:6, kjv
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
-As God spoke by the prophets in time past in these days, these last hours ( John 1:18) He speaks to us by His beloved son in whom we have been qualified to be saints in the inheritance in the light by His blood at the cross By repentance. ( Colossians 1:12-14,KJV)
-And if you have repented at the cross and received salvation which is by grace and faith alone none of any of our works then we receive gifts according to His will which He gives for the edifying of the ministry (body of Christ For He is the Head of the Church Colossians 1:18, KJV.)
As it written in Ephesians 4:7-8, KJV
7.But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
-And in time past ( Hebrews 1:1, KJV) They the prophets healed the sick, raised the dead and provided provisions and all according to the will of God and not mans will.
-Therefore, we serve the same Living God who has been in the beginning and Does not Change and Was manifest unto us as a child, but He was there from the begging as a Son given unto us as a Son Mighty God, everlasting Father. (Isiah 6:9 KJV)
As it is written in 1 timothy 3:16, KJV.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Part 2 next.
Part two
What does it mean to believe? What is the evidence that we believe? As Paul said, it is like running a race, when we start this race, we believe we are going to finish, and with God's Spirit we have all the determination and motivation we are not only going to finish this race we are going to win this race.
We are saved! We are being saved! We shall be saved! When we start, are all our sins forgiven, our past, present, and our future sins the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and are baptized? Is our salvation guaranteed and we cannot lose it or fall out of grace regardless?
We are saved. Eph. 2:5 When we accept the gospel and are baptized our sins are blotted out, Isaiah 44:22 Acts 3:19 and we become a child/son/daughter of God, John 1:12 we are justified, made righteous by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and now we begin a relationship through God's Spirit, and God and Jesus abide in us, 2 John 1:9. This is the start of the race, the beginning of our salvation.
We are being saved. Philippians 1:6 Hearing the Word one believes and is baptized into Christ they are made clean (justification) the work of grace, and the Lord will continue working in us until He returns if we abide in Him John 15:3-5. How does God complete his good work in us? Testing James 1:2-4, chastising Heb. 12:6-7 Our relationship. If we abide in Him, Jesus, and God abides in us. The branches bear the fruit of the vine, the vine produces the fruit not us/branch, sanctification. We are running the race Philippians 2:12
We shall be saved. Redemption and glorification. Our full salvation comes at the end, when Jesus returns. Luke 21:28 "being now justified" We started the race. We are being saved, "being reconciled" we are running the race, 2 Cor. 5:18. We shall be saved at the end of the race. Romans 13:11.
See part three.
Part three,
Each believer is personally responsible for living in obedience to Christ's commands. 1 Timothy 4:16. Can we come up short, Hebrews 4:1. Some of the natural branches of the house of Israel were broken off for unbelief so the people of the nations who believe and are justified are grafted in. Believers/saved can be cut off if they do not continue in his goodness/grace. Romans 11:15-24.
Much of your post I agree, it is about becoming saved and our relationship with Jesus, and if we continue to abide in Him those scriptures apply. Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. Peter and the disciples at this time were still observing the old law. We see years later they were still debating it in Acts 15.
1 Cor. 9:27 If we look at the wording "But I keep under my body and bring it into subjection" it is as if his body is his adversary. It is like he was beating his body whether it is said metaphorical, but to the subduing of the natural appetites of the flesh, a life of self-denial not to succumb to the sins of the flesh. The Greek adokimos translated as castaway, is the same word for reprobate, Romans 1:28 Titus 1:16. I do not think Paul is talking about rewards.
Hebrews 3:12-13 This chapter starts with "Wherefore holy brethern" These are Christians, saved, verse 6 "if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." The writer includes himself "If We". Verses 12 and 13 are to these same people and verse 14 says "For we are made partakers of Christ" Because they are made so they are saved believers in Christ.
1 John 1:7 If is conditional a choice if you walk in the light there is fellowship, if you don't walk in the light, you are outside of the fellowship.
See part four.