Discuss John 1 Page 44

Hello Ron, What holy thing has been born of a woman from Adam until Jesus?

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14

"I am the bread of life.. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.."

I am the bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51

"He can not deny himself" 2 Timothy 2:13

Carleton

Hi Ron, I agree with some of what you said, except for the following assumptions:

"If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?"

I don't believe the above assumption is true. The Bible clearly says Jesus was without sin (perfect), so why even flirt with the idea that He wasn't? Where does that idea even come from?

Jesus didn't come to die for His own sins, but for yours, for mine, for all human beings past, present and future. Why assume it has anything to do with Jesus' doing something wrong? It wasn't about Him atoning for His sin, but yours! That's what makes it extra special and loving- He loved you that much to give you that gift that frankly He had no business doing.

The other assumptions I noticed was this, which I also don't believe is true:

"God cannot be tempted, Jesus was, God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us."

First, what do you mean by God cannot be tempted- do you mean God won't give into temptation or is impossible for a tempter like satan to tempt Him? Human beings are tempted by satan as a normal part of being human- so of course Jesus was tempted. It's possible you got this idea from: James 1:13, but it says God cannot be tempted with evil. It doesn't say that if God becomes a man that satan can't attempt to tempt him. This is likely at the core of this misunderstanding. Of course the Bible says clearly that Jesus is God in John 1:1 and many other verses.

Second, you wrote: "God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us"

I agree with the first part that God can't die. But then you wrote that Jesus died for us. Yes, as a human being, not as God. His spirit didn't die. So, this sounds like it's conflating 2 different things and assuming that Jesus doesn't have a soul or spirit or that there's no afterlife? Since all human beings have a soul/spirit and an afterlife, and since God the Father is a spirit, of course God the Son has this too which didn't die. God bless.

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Would the Love of God for sinners be seen in creating another human or animal (though perfect) to represent Him in sacrifice & prove His Love? It would be like saying, 'I don't want to risk my life to go out to save the drowning man; I would rather find another to do it for me'. Where is the true Love here?

Rather, for John 15:13 to reveal Jesus' Mind, we can only understand that Jesus was the One Who delighted to accomplish His Father's Will as a Man: John 6:38; Philippians 2:6-8.

So to the question: who is this Jesus & was He linked to Mary by blood thereby inheriting her sin nature? From the Scriptures just given, we see that Jesus is inextricably connected to God & came down from Heaven as God sent out His Word to be made human ( John 1:1,14). Can God (His Word made flesh) be found with a sin nature? To answer that, I referred you to 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. Here we saw that God's first creation (Adam) is of the Earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven" & He is referred to as the last Adam.

So God had determined two separate creations. The first one was created perfect but was deceived & sinned. The second One was created perfect, not from dust, but by the Spirit who took the Word & placed it in Mary to be brought into the World not as a man formed from & lying on the ground but as a Babe formed by the Spirit & issued through a woman.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even we also should walk in newness of life. For if we had been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 64-11

"he ever liveth to make intercession for us" Hebrews 7:25

"And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" 1 John 2:1

"No man hath seen the God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" John 1:18

"I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world" Matthew 13:35

"In my Father's house are many mansions.... I go to prepare a place for you" John 14:2

"God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good" Acts 10:38

"Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" 1 Peter 2:21

"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you" John 13:15

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9-11

"I am a debtor" Romans 1:14

"His name shall be called...The mighty God" Isaiah 9:6

"My Lord and my God" John 20:2

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest" Luke 1:32

"that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16

"And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" John 1:34

"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17

"God sent his only begotten Son into the world" 1 John 4:9

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" Matthew 16:16

"The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14

"And thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" Matthew 1:21

"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20

"But when the fulness of the time was to come, God sent his Son" Galatians 4:4

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14

"Behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS" Luke 1:31

"Then said Mary to the Angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" Luke 1:34

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

" Thou son of David, fear not to take Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 1:20

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14

"I am the bread of life....This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51

What is the motive for this campaign to discredit Jesus's divinity? Why do you celebrate when you feel you have delivered your case? Does this actually come from God, or does it actually come from the great deceiver?

Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.

Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 44:6

John 20:27-28

John 10:30

John 5:18

John 1:18

Colossians 2:9-10

John 10:33

John 1:1

John 1:14

1 Corinthians 8:6

Revelation 1:17-18

Acts 7:59-60

Matthew 28:19

2 Peter 1:1

Acts 20:28

1 John 5:7

Chris,

Also, we can look at Philippians 2:6 which says, Who (Referring to Jesus), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:



2 Corinthians 4:4 says, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

There is a word in the Greek text that can be defined as the out beam, or radiance of God's glory. It is the word APOUGASMA. It is a word used to describe Christ, being the out beam of God's glory.

I like to imagine shining a flashlight on a wall in a pitch-black room. The light I see on the wall is Christ. But if I were to take that same flashlight and point it at my eyes, its brightness would be so great that it would blind me. Thus, our image of the Divine Glory of God is enlightened and more vivid by the beauty of the scriptures!

I believe what the inspired writer of Hebrews wanted his readers to draw is apparent and fitting. Christ is the "effulgence" of God's glory ( Hebrews 1:3) because as the Word, He became flesh so that the grace and truth of God's glory could be seen by all ( John 1:14,17-18).

Jesus is the true light that radiates forth prevailing over all shades of darkness ( John 1:5). Just as no one can stare directly into the beam of the flashlight or spotlight without being blinded by the extreme brightness, in like manner, none can see the Father because of His Divine Glory.

But, as the light of the flashlight shines forth from the bulb revealing its essence, Jesus shines forth as the visible manifestation by which the knowledge of the glory of God is declared to all ( John 1:14,18; 2 Corinthians 4:6). For he who sees Jesus beholds the Father! ( John 12:45; 14:9,10).

Thanks Chris!

Dear Ron, I only see one post by you in this thread and it sounds like you're referring to another thread, so it's unclear what conversation you're referring to or what you believe on the subject being discussed. You suggested that I'm closed off. Actually I've been quite open to get others' opinion on this subject of Jesus's divinity which the Bible is black and white on. But after hearing a variety of arguments, reading, and praying about it, it's clear that satan is working overtime to deceive Christians into doubting the Bible. It's almost unbelievable to witness how some can just completely disregard certain verses because it's inconvenient to them, so they reinterpret it to suit their needs. The devil loves seeing someone doubt and develop cracks in their foundation which then grow and become crevases and canyons. Some here have even admitted they not only don't believe other parts of the Bible either. That's really sad and sickening to hear this.

John 1:1 - if someone doesn't believe this verse then they are refusing to believe part of the Bible, part of God's Word. It's so simple even 4 year olds can understand it. It's clear what it means and it's cute to read the mental gymnastics some attempt to twist it into something else, but nope, it means exactly what it says, even if you prefer it to not say it. I must ask, what's the real reason for people denying Christ and denying His divinity? Does it take faith for that... or the opposite of faith? Is such doubt from God... or from the opposite of God?

You said this is defended. Yes, the truth should be defended. Jesus should be defended. Anyone who considers himself a Christian should follow Christ and defend Him, and defend the truth in love. God bless.

And Jesse, just to add a portion of Scripture that I often refer to (& to which bro. Adam has recently & correctly highlighted in another comment), is 1 John 4:1-3:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

To affirm & confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is NOT simply a belief that there was an historical Jesus on Earth Who went about doing good & speaking the Words of God - even the devils know that fact (an abundance of references exist showing Jesus dealing with them). But to confess that this Jesus had a pre-existence (to which we now know that He was vitally & inseparably connected to the Godhead from Eternity to Eternity, known as the Word of God ( John 1:1 & Revelation 19:13)), has "in due time" (God's appointed time) appeared to mankind from God to be given flesh & be called the Son of God & to lay down His Life for sinners.

Any departure from this great Truth was the overwhelming burden on the Apostle John's heart as he had the constant battle before him to warn & protect the children of God from the intrusions of Gnosticism into the Church. And particularly an offshoot of it (Docetism) which taught "that the incarnation was incredible (unbelievable, false), because Deity cannot unite itself with anything material, such as a body". How sad that Christians even today are gripped with that false belief & proclaiming that God, by sending out His Word, could not have assumed a body of flesh (the incarnation). John tells us that the spirit of antichrist was alive & well then as we even see it today.

Hello Sacha,

I would like to reply to your question. So going back to Genesis 22 is the story of Abraham offering up his son Isaac. Which I believe is stated to be a test of faith from God to Abraham. Hebrews 11:7, James 2:21-23. To see how deep his faith truly was. Not just faith but faith by works.

As this topic has come up before I will share my beliefs with some Scripture to it. As another stated also, I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. I believe as God is eternal that instead of Him being alone why not have a Son whom is perfect in every aspect just as He is. To be in Him and with Him always in His heart and in His bosom John 1:18 for companionship (that actually just came to me today as I was standing outside praising the Lord).

I usually state Jesus Christ as Lord along with thirty other names I know by heart that I call Him while in prayer. I do not call Him God personally. Although He is one with God and I believe He is the Word of God(as it states in Revelation 19:13. Also some titles the Father and Son share are Lord of lords, Alpha and Omega, Savior. As in the OT, using only one verse as there are many, that there is no Saviour but the LORD. Isaiah 43:11. Through out the NT God and Jesus Christ are both stated as our Saviour. Just some Titus 1:3, Titus 1:4, Titus 3:4, Titus 3:6.

So as you have your own beliefs, and just as well I have mine, I will stop here as I don't want to quarrel or argue any more about this. I believe Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God is eternal just as the Father and has always been with the Father. Yes His physical life came to this earth being born of Mary. As He had to suffer death for us as a perfect sacrifice or offering for our sins. Which is very honorable and why the Father honors Him higher than any other being. Even the highest Holy angels. Hebrews 1:4.

And about Him being at the Fathers right hand Steven saw this before He was stoned in Acts 7:55-56. So it's not just a metaphor. God Bless

Dear Sacha,

If you're a Christian and don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is mystifying. If you don't believe in the many scriptures in the Bible that say not only Jesus is the son of God, but is God, then that is mystifying. You are in the minority who believe that. Many think saying such things as what you just said is a heresy, but I wouldn't go so far- I think it's just misunderstanding in the same way the other person did. Much of it involves falsely assuming a format like this: "Jesus has one title, therefore he can't (with my own human interpretation) have other titles, because my personal reasons." You suggested that Jesus is not Lord, but that's a foundational belief in Christianity and is throughout the Bible. It's sad that someone has to also assume false motives of another Christian too. Did you pray to God the Father about this before posting such controversy?

Examples of Jesus is Lord: Link

Romans 10:9

Romans 6:23

Philippians 2:10-11

Luke 6:46

Isaiah 44:6

John 13:13

1 Thessalonians 4:16

2 Timothy 1:8

Acts 16:31

1 Corinthians 12:3-5

Did you reach each of the above?

Romans 10:9 for example says: ""That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."" - some translations word it as "...if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord..."

Deut 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

This verse is similar to: 1 John 5:7-8, John 10:30, and John 1:1, John 1:14, and so many others that say Jesus is God. This doesn't mean Jesus is God the Father, but Jesus is God the Son.

When it says "we are one" that does not mean they are separate. It means they are one. So, when a man says they can't be one, or Jesus is separate somehow, because it says they are 'one' that idea self-contradicts itself. I believe the Bible as it is written.

Dear Adam,

With all due respect, I've given you the word of God, not my interpretation, and you have rejected it choosing to cleave to the witchcraft/theology of rome and her 501c3 seminary indoctrinated sorcerers.

The problem here is when I read John 1:1, "and the Word was God"; I believe it as it is written, the written (yes every word of the kjv) or spoken word/logos was God (in the beginning it was only spoken). The Word was with God and the Word was God. Verily in the same way my Word also is with me and I am my Word, it represents me.

But when you read John 1:1, you believe the word; Word: actually means Son of God or Christ. This is because you have been taught to believe this by Rome. This is called witchcraft, the purposeful twisting of words to mean something other than what they mean.

God didn't die on a cross.

God cannot die, and has never been born. He is without beginning or ending.

The Holy Spirit is eternal.

The son of God, the man Christ Jesus( 1 Tim. 2:5) died on a cross, and God resurrected him.

Yes Jesus Christ was a man.

But he wasn't just any man, he was the son of God born without sin, because the Holy Spirit was his Father and a virgin was his mother, therefore he was not born under the curse of Adam, and he lived a sinless life yet being tempted in all the ways we are so he would be the sinless sacrifice for all humanity.

He was also that prophet spoken of by God to Moses:

Deuteronomy 18:18

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Just because He spoke the words of His Father (as you referenced John 8:58), does not make Him a "person of the godhead". Many prophets spoke the word of God and didn't claim to be part of the godhead. That is heresy. The word godhead is a singular word, not plural and there are no "persons" in it.

This is your final admonition to come out of Babylon (rome).

Be well.

Thanks for sharing your evidence. I agree with all the scriptures and believe and trust in the Bible. I don't trust your interpretion of it, however, as to arrive at such a conclusion you first have to cherrypick a few verses and ignore many verses. Secondly, the few cherrypicked have to then be interpreted in an unconventional, distorted way.

So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.

The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.

John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.

One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.

I Corinthians chapters 12-14

The Holy Spirit now in operation on earth since the day of Pentecost (book of Acts).

Jesus ascended to sit at the right hand of God; He delegated gift giving to the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit gives the gifts of the Spirit, as He wills. He is the Spirit of Jesus Christ, on earth, now.

If it's in the New Testament, then it is New Testament living for now till Jesus comes back. This is a new and better Covenant. Each born again Christian is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. "Know ye not you are the Temple of the living God?"

If we don't read our Bibles beyond, Psalm 23, 1 John 1:9, Psalm 51 or Genesis; Matthew 25:29-46, we'll miss seeing the Ministry Gifts.

The whole of the purpose of the Cross was to strip Satan of his power he stole from Adam; Ratify the New Covenant with His Blood. To deliver the Holy Spirit to the New Testament Church

(Pentecost). Jesus would then be in every born again believers, spirit. Fulfill all outstanding Prophesy; start writing the New Testament down

If we are skittish about Tongues, the Holy Spirit knows that. He's in us. We're the temple. Scripture says to desire the best gifts or operations, like: government, hospitality, missions, and more, like ministry gifts=prophets, teachers, pastors, evangelists, apostles. Etc. It's written.

New Testament disciples and believers were saying things like, I follow Peter or Paul and others. It was new and that's how people think to identify. Herd mentality.

Habakkuk 2:2

And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon table ,so that he may run that readeth it. (They didn't have paper notebooks then, or personal Bibles!)

You will find your identity in the pages of your Bible. I've said that for 36 years. Jesus will help us understand our particular equippings. He hasn't told me to scratch that one out and move along; so, it still stands as Rhema. Google that word...

Believe Jesus's words. Bible.

Respectfully, that is your opinion, and not what the scripture declares. You have chosen to interpret the Bible a certain way and that is your opinion. Most Christians don't read the Bible in the way you describe and disagree with you. But what really matters is what God says the truth is. There's been some fake news circulating around lately where some are claiming Jesus isn't God, but a few Bible scriptures debunk that lie very quickly.

Here's what the scripture declares: John 10:30. John 1:1. 1 John 5:7-8.

The heresy of claiming Jesus didn't become man and wasn't who he said he was even occurred back in Jesus' times and is even in the Bible! 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7. It literally calls these people spreading the lies the antichrist.

So, the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God and was fully man. Since it says that, the phrase Jesus was fully God and fully man sounds true. Just because the phrase in that word order doesn't appear in the Bible doesn't mean it's not 100% true. The Bible also doesn't use the word restroom anywhere, but that doesn't mean people never had to use a bathroom or toilet.

Since it clearly says in the Bible it's true, it seems like an unusual argument to make against it being true. It doesn't seem like such an argument would come without scripture evidence or without serious prayer asking God if this is true or not, before spreading such information around. The Bible calling someone an antichrist is not a joke- that is a serious offense to mislead others and try to stir up doubt in the body of Christ. So, what is your evidence of this and have you first prayed to God and asked for confirmation if this idea contrary to scripture is "true"?

God bless...

Hello Mishael,

Thank you for your reply. Although I believe you may have taken my question a little off. It wasn't why Jesus was baptized in the Jordan. Just as you stated that in Matthew 3:15 Jesus told John it was to "fulfill all righteousness".

It was just in a previous post from RTB, and at least one other, that they state that Jesus Christ was anointed with, or received, the Holy Ghost at His baptism by John. As he made a good point in Luke 1:15 how John the baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb. As we know how much greater Jesus Christ is than John the baptist. Not taking anything away from how great John the baptist was.

I stated this in a post the other day about Jesus Christ and being filled with the Holy Ghost "Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sight of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was just a sign for John, or for His supernatural powers, only God knows. John 1:32-34."

I hope that cleared up for you that my question was not why He was baptized but about the Holy Ghost being in Him before His water baptism. Which I believe and there is evidence to in the Scriptures.

Thank you very much for your reply Mishael. You always leave lots of helpful information.

God Bless.

Hi I read your post, I would like to reason with you on John not living a life of sin,

I believe anyone born again can make that claim, because of we being baptized in Christ, "read Romans 6.

BUT that don't make us sinless, as long as we're in these bodies sin is there,

read Romans 7.

Not until Christ rose from the dead were we given the power over sin, ""Not sinless but nolonger running after sin"".

( Romans 8:11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.)

John knew himself Jesus baptism was different and he needed it

Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Before the Christ was crucified and rose again there was a dwelling of the Holyspirit for God's servants to minister but there wasn't a baptism of the Holyspirit that proceeded after the Lamb slain for the sins of the World. by which we minister and by which we are "Positionally sanctified " ( Forever cleansed from the penalty of sin)

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Romans 3:23-24. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Msg has been slightly edited for clarity, and moved to the correct thread.

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now listen to the Lord speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now He's speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

Thank you once again Andrew.

To re-state: I certainly don't believe in a "triune co-equal triple god". There is only One God from Whom goes His Word & His Spirit. And John 1:1 states that that Word was with God & was God. And then verse 14 states that the Word was made flesh. That Word has now been brought into the World as Jesus. So who is this Jesus? Even Colossians 1:15-19 tells us that Jesus (the Word) was involved in creation & now is the Head of the Body.

You said that 'God created everything in Genesis 1'. "He spoke it into existence. The Son of God didn't fall out of His mouth." Was Jesus the Son of God in creation? No. Only the Word of God was spoken in creation. But God chose to send forth His Word "in due time" clothed in flesh for the suffering of death. I know nothing of the "beguilement of Rome & her sorcerers", but the Scriptures reveal who Jesus is, "the Word of God made man". If this simple yet profound Truth can be made to mean something else, then I would have to query so much of the Bible that might have other such secret hidden meanings, making it altogether useless to me, leaving me floundering in confusion.

Even 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." "Three, Three". Why is it even in there, if it were not important to reveal the three-fold Nature of the One God? And that to me (without the intrusion of the supposed trickery of Rome), is clear evidence of a Triune God: One God revealed in His Fullness: Father, Word & the Holy Spirit - all Three in operation for the salvation of mankind & no doubt, in the final judgement upon the World. Blessings.

No worries Chris,

You only get two admonitions.

God has a 2 strike law.

However, to answer your earnest questions..& to reiterate what the Scripture shows forth:

We aren't splitting hairs.

The deity of the man Christ Jesus is His Father (God). This does not make Him a separate god "of a triune co-equal triple god".

Where you and I differ is when you read the word Godhead: you understand it to be plural, when Godhead is a singular noun. In Spanish bibles it is written deidad; which simply means deity.

Likewise, when you read the word; Word in John 1:1 and 1:14 you understand it to mean: son or Christ.

Such is the beguilement of Rome and her sorcerers/TheoLOGIANs who have changed the meaning of words.

I certainly am no better than you, as I use to believe the same, until I was washed from those lies by the word of God.

When John 1:1 says: "and the Word was God."

I understand it as it is written, that the Word was God (the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ).

How did God create everything in Genesis 1? He spoke it into existence. The Son of God didn't fall out of His mouth.

1 John 5:7-8 KJV

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

These verses are not speaking about a "trinity". Rather verse 7 is speaking about God the Father (who is the Word and the Holy Spirit). And verse 8 is speaking about the baptism of water and Spirit ( John 3:5) by which you have the blood covering. It is a blood covenant.

Finally I submit to you to meditate on these verses of Scripture:

1 John 5:20-21

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Sincerely,

Andrew

As no one person is exactly the same as another. Just as well there is many different beliefs to interpreting the Scriptures. Which is said to have no private interpretation. ( 2 Peter 1:20-21.

As this has been discussed before I will put my portion. I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Though He was more than just a "sinless" man. He was part man part God. Born of a virgin who was conceived by the Holy Ghost ( Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:30-35. Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sign of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was for just a sign for John or for His supernatural powers only God knows. John 1:32-34.

If some think that believing Jesus Christ is more that just a man is taking something away from the Father. God wants us to honor His Son as He is the only way to the Father. Scriptures pointing to Him being more than "just" a man John 3:12-13, John 3:33-35, John 3:38, John 8:54-58, John 17:3-5, Colossians 1:12-20, Hebrews 1:1-4.

Also titles Jesus Christ, the Son of God, uses like Alpha and Omega(first and last) in the beginning of Revelation. The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, being King of kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 17:14. Also the Word of God and King of kings and Lord of lords given to the man riding the white horse out of Heaven. I believe is Jesus Christ.

Besides all of the miracles He performed. Him being transfigured on the mountain Matthew 17:2.

There is one True Holy Living Almighty God. Saying the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one. Also as how many verses I have that state the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are in us after being saved. To me showing Jesus Christ is the Word of God and one with God and the Holy Ghost.

Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.

Greetings in Jesus' name, Alec.

In this passage of scripture we can see that the pharisees were trying to trip Jesus up & condemn Him, as they always tried to, unsuccessfully. The sabbath was a convocation (an act or rehearsal) pointing to the 7th day 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ after His second coming. This is the rest spoken of in Hebrews that remaineth to enter into. Christian's don't enter into a day of the week, though there's certainly nothing wrong with observing the sabbath and the Lord's day.

Concerning the pharisees:

13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

- Isaiah 28:13

This is why Jesus said in :

Matthew 23:23 KJV

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

John 1:17

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

I hope this helps you.

Be well,

Andrew

In some passages, the Bible says that Jesus is God ( John 10:30, John 1:1 & 14, Isiah 9:6, John 14:9), but other passages don't say that Jesus and God's are the same ( Luke 9:44, Luke 9:58, Matt. 16:13-17, Luke 18:19).

Are Jesus and God the same, or is Jesus God's Son?

How can I explain this to someone?

Well praise the Lord if you have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ!

That's the first half of being born of water & Spirit Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 necessary to enter into the kingdom.

As to Christ being the Word, that is a lie from the pit of hell to get people to believe in a "pre-incarnate Christ" and a "trinity" (words not found in the Holy Scriptures), so that they don't know the Son of God, and He will tell them, "depart from me I never knew you" as you referenced in Matthew 7.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Amen. How did God create everything? By His word. It doesn't say "and the word was Christ."

And the word was made flesh ( John 1:14).

God was manifest in the flesh ( 1 Tim 3:16)

Amen.

When was God manifest in the flesh?

Luke 3:22

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Amen.

When the Holy Spirit (God) descended upon and began to dwell in His Son, God was manifest in the flesh, and then Jesus began his 3.5 year ministry of miracles signs and wonders.

Which brings us to the root of our conversation. Murmuring or babbling (i.e. sha la la ba ba like you can hear in some "pentecostal/apostolic" churches) is not evidence of having received the Holy Ghost. However, as I said; the fake tongues do not invalidate the real thing. The Book of Acts shows forth that anytime someone received the Holy Ghost they spoke in another tongue (be it of men or angels). If you can show me, from the scriptures, an instance that someone received the Holy Ghost by "feeling peace" then I will gladly stand corrected, but I have not found any such scripture. I wouldn't trust a "personal experience" over what the word of God says.

Isaiah 55:1

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Thank you for answering my one question.

No man has told me I have received the Holy Ghost. Just as no man shall ever persuade me that the Holy Ghost is not in me. I know because of what I have experienced. The Holy Bible is what God lead me to read which lead me to Jesus Christ. Most people in this world would not believe what I have experienced. Those who do are wise as I speak truth. All glory to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.

I did avoid your first question. As it was unlearned. I do not believe in a "trinity of gods". God is one. It seems you do not believe in Jesus Christ being the Word of God? As stated in (1 John 1:14, John 14:10? The Father and the Son are also one, John 9:30. Let's not get into that though as you have your own belief. Your assumption of my water baptism is false also.

No where in the Holy Bible does it specifically state everyone who receives the Holy Ghost shall murmur or babble. That in no way is magnifying God. And to prophecy people must understand your words. Again remember as in Matthew 7:21-23 that no matter how much you prophesied, or cast out devils, in the name of the Lord that is not what saves you. The Lord searches hearts. I also just as you will have to give account for our words Matthew 12:36-37.

God Bless you.

Well praise the Lord!

Pardon my redundancy but since this is a dalvation issue allow me to confirm; you have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (and not the titles Father Son and Holy Ghost) for the remission of sins?

Verily what you said that The Father (God), The Word (God) and the Holy Ghost (God) are one. However, if you happen to believe that the word; Word actually means Christ, or Son of God, then unfortunately you have been deceived by rome's sorcerers/ theologians. JOHN 1:1 KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Amen.

The word, Word means written or spoken unit of communication. Just like these words I am writing to you here. They are my word (aside from my Father's word -1 Perer 4:11 :) and they are with me.

In summary, getting back to the original question at hand: yes, the Holy Scriptures clearly show that every time someone received the Gift of the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts, the initial manifestation and evidence of it is that they would speak in an unknown tongue (be it of men or angels) and prophesy and magnify God, Hallelujah! This is not to misconstrue the initial evidence of having received the Gift with the individual 'gift of diverse tongues' or being able to speak in known languages of men without ever having learned them (Paul speaks of this in 1 Corinthians 12).

So yes, in summary, all who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost will speak in an unknown tongue as the Spirit gives them utterance. However not all have the gift of diverse tongues. Covet the best gifts.

I hope this helps you so that you can press in in prayer and praise and receive the Gift, as Jesus said in Luke 11:13 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Amen.

We don't want to boast of a false gift as that would make us like what is spoken of in Proverbs 25:14, & Jude 1:12 if we continue.

Be well

when we understand our purpose there will be no need for jealousy just like john understood who he was and he was proud to tell people and there was no hate found in him even when his followers left him and followed Jesus, there was nowhere that it was found that he was beefing Jesus rather he kept bearing witness. As Christians, we should know our purpose it will help us stay put to our purpose and eliminate drifting.

Colossians 3:1-4. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

FOR YE ARE DEAD, AND YOUR LIFE IS "HID" WITH CHRIST IN GOD.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,

THEN SHALL YE ALSO APPEAR WITH HIM IN GLORY. "Absent of the body present with the Lord"

CHRIST WAS JUDGED FOR OUR SINS NOT HIS!! AND HE ROSE AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION!!

You see in the old testament in the book of Exodus, you see the blood of the lamb as an atonement to hide them from judgment.

Exodus 12:11-13. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the "LORD'S PASSOVER."

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute "JUDGMENT": I am the LORD.

And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Christ is our passover, Jews/Gentiles =Church.

John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Believers works what they have done will be tried with fire but not for salvation.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 (KJV) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: "BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire.

Romans 8:1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hello, maybe you've already made up your mind on this which is different than how some others interpret it. The verses you quoted before don't indicate anything different and support my interpretation. Scripture like 1 Peter chapter 1 are clear to me and countless other verses instruct Christians to not sin.

"They are not able to live according to their old nature."

Some believe that for Christians it's impossible to sin, which I think is a misinterpretation of the Bible that plays into the hand of the enemy. There are Christians who sometimes look at pornography- so does that mean that's not a sin, or some cheat on their wives- not sin? Some have probably even killed- not sin? Seems like a tough argument to make to claim that sin isn't sin. Or that Christians no longer have freewill to sin? We all likely know Christians who have drifted from the faith and have sinned or even denounced the faith.

Not sure if you believe this, but I think the belief of "impossible for Christians to sin" originates from 1 John in 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18, but if you read the context it doesn't say what some are assuming it says. The keywords are who is born of God don't 'practice' sin. Genuine followers won't continue to sin on an ongoing basis.

If you read the whole book of 1 John it explains and shows the context, like right out of the gate in 1 John 1:8-10. So, which is it, can a Christian sin or not?

In chapter 3, it clarifies that its only those who follow commandments. So, an action is required for Christians. It's not like you already won and can disobey and do whatever sin you want. ( 1 John 3:23-24) says that to dwell in Jesus the Christian must obey. If it was a given (automatic) then Jesus wouldn't have kept telling his followers (Christians) to avoid sin. He absolutely pounded this message in them. A true follower should not sin, they should hate it and avoid it at all costs. Matthew 5:30, John 14:15. God bless.