Discuss John 20 Page 9

Hi Jesse,

You are not causing any confusion at all. To me anyway. As we should share these things of the Scriptures to help broaden each other. I very much enjoy conversing with others in the Lord.

That is very interesting about the "eis" following the G1720 word. You are correct as I looked over the Septuagint and saw the differences from those other two verses, with G1720, to John 20:22.

Although Jesus had not ascended into Heaven yet, as you correctly stated, He had raised up from the dead and was in His glorified body at this point. In my thought, in that He just "breathed in" before He spake seems of no avail or reason to me to have stated that.

With the Thayers and Strongs definition of the word G1720 stating "to blow or breathe upon" and "to blow at or on". As I am in no way a scholar in the Greek language.

Also as that word, G1720, only being used twice in the entire Septuagint(Greek OT), in the two verses you stated, and only once in the entire Textus Receptus(Greek NT) in John 20:22.

My belief is that the Lord did breathe the Holy Ghost at His disciples at that point. Although as I stated before only God, and the Lord, knows for sure about this. Your belief is just as good as mine. That is very good that you picked up on that little difference.

As this topic really is not that important. Exactly when the Lords disciples received the Holy Ghost.

Thank you for all your information and time Jesse. Always a pleasure.

God Bless.

Hello Richard,

Here is what brings me to my conclusion:

Genesis 2:7 from the Septuagint translated into English says, "and the God molded man from the dust of the land and (breathed into) his face the breath of life and man became into a living soul."

Ezekiel 37:9 from the Greek Septuagint says, "and He said to me "Prophesy son of man, prophesy over the Spirit and tell the Spirit "Thus says The Lord, come out of the four spirits and (breathe into) these dead let them live!"

The prepositional phrase EIS is used in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9.

There is a specific action taking place in both those verses. The preposition EIS is used with the accusative case in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9. What that means to me is that it points to the object of verbal action. When I see the prepositional phrase EIS with the accusative, I believe it should be translated by using terms such as into, unto, to, toward, etc. A specific action.

But in John 20:22, the prepositional phrase EIS is not used in that verse in the Textus Receptus. That is why I don't believe the English translation is correct when it says He breathed on them. There's nothing in the Greek text to indicate that action was taken. It should read He breathed in. I see it as Jesus taking a deep breath before saying receive ye the Holy Ghost.

But John 20:22 does not tell us that they received the Holy Ghost.

I do agree that the Holy Spirit fell on many in Acts Chapter 2. But I don't see any indication that anyone had received the Holy Spirit before Christ's ascension into heaven. That is what I was getting at. I believe that salvation takes place once God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) enters into a person, not before.

What I was referring to was that while Jesus was here on this earth, I don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit yet. In Acts Chapter 2, yes! This would have been after Christ ascended into heaven.

I hope that I am not causing any confusion here.

Thank you for the response!

Hello Jesse,

As I understand you stating that the true experience, receiving the Holy Ghost, had not happened yet as we see in Acts 2 with the Holy Ghost coming upon them in Jerusalem.

Although I must ask where you have heard "He breathed on them" literally says "He breathed in"? The translation from the Greek is quite accurate. As the Greek word "emphusao" means "to blow or breath upon or to blow at".

I myself believe that is when they did receive the Holy Ghost personally from the Lord. In Acts 2 it states "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". Having that amazing experience. Not stating that is where they received it. I believe that is the first place that they felt or experienced the power of the Holy Ghost. In my understanding.

I hope my statement only brings us together. As only God knows exactly when the Holy Ghost entered them.

God Bless.

There's a scripture that says the Holy Spirit, is the Spirit of Christ.

You can type that in this websites Search Box (as you enter the site. you'll see it

The literal translation of John 20:22 for the term "He breathed on them," it says literally "He breathed in." That is it! "He breathed in and said to them."

What does that mean that He breathed in?

Some point out the fact that the word for breathe is found in two places in the Old Testament, one is in Genesis 2:7, where the Lord literally breathed into the face of Adam and he became a living soul.



And then in Ezekiel 37:9, where he tells Ezekiel to go out and prophecy, and the wind comes and blows on the dead bones and they become alive.



But the difference between this instance and the two places I just mentioned is that in the Septuagint, in Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9 it has what is called the preposition EIS with the accusative.



God breathed into Adam. The wind and breath of God breathed into the dead bones. There is no prepositional phrase here in John 20:22. It is just the word breathed in.

What is interesting is that it does not say that they received the Holy Spirit.

This text is where some get the "two experiences" where here they were saved, and in Acts Chapter 2, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a "second experience" that every Christian needs.

The problem here is that Jesus gave them the command, receive the Holy Ghost. It doesn't say they received Him!

I guess my answer to your question would be that when Jesus said this, He breathed in, like to expand His chest, and He says unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

I hope this was not a private conversation. If so, please accept my apology.

It has been a good day. Jesus speaks to me and you.

John 21:14-17

14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he saith unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him. Feed my sheep.

Hey Rev. John This may be incorrect, but was it the promise of the Comforter that the world could not receive, in John 14:16-17 sent from the Father in Jesus' name? Ron, If wrong that is a beautiful question I will Keep studying. Understand now why you are a Professor.

2 Corinthians 4:6

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

:)

were is the answer

I like your question!

what does it mean he breathed on them the holy spirit

Hello Patty and Joe,

Here are a couple links to the verses I think you are seeking:

Matthew 28:18-20

( Mark 16:14-20

( John 16

( John 20:21-22

Hope that helps. God Bless.

I agree, all had to believe, but the Jews had to believe John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." and the Gentiles had to believe 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

But you'll have to agree nothing beats Bible study for having fun!

Skip Vought, You said this: Paul, writing the the church at Corinth in about 55, records how he had DELIVERED to them what he had RECEIVED: received many years earlier when he had visited Peter and James in Jerusalem some 3 years after his Damascus Road conversion.

Paul disagrees with you, Read this: Galatians 1:11-12 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." Jesus gave Paul the exact word of the Gospel that he preached to the Gentiles.

The amount of time between the death of Jesus, and His subsequent appearance to Paul would be 8 or 9 years around 36 or 37A.D.). so Paul would have been in his early 30's when Jesus appeared to him, and he became a Christian.

Galatians 1:18-19 "Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." Galatians 2:1-2 "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain." So, 8 years plus 3 years plus 14 years, would be 25 year after the resurrection of Jesus that Paul had the big Bible conference in Jerusalem with all the Apostles when he told the other Apostles of the Gospel that he was preaching to the Gentiles. The 12 Apostles had been preaching a different Gospel for 25 years. They never preached "how that Christ died for sins" Not once. Although the Gospel that the 12 Apostles preached to the Jews are found in about a half-a-dozen scriptures, they are basically all the same. John's Gospel is perhaps the clearest and best one. John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son

My point is, there are two different Gospels; one for the Jews, and one for the Gentiles. John 1:11-12 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:", John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.", Romans 10:9-13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.", and 1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.". Those five Gospels are basically the same Gospel for the Jews. The twelve Disciples were commanded by Jesus, NOT to go to the Gentiles in Matthew chapter ten. The one exception was Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, (not the Kingdom of God) for the kingdom of God was taken from the Jews, and given to the Gentiles in Matthew Chapter 21:43. The reason the Jews had to admit that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, was because "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. " But as many Jews, that received him were saved; and about 3,000 were saved at Pentecost. Paul's Gospel is Different

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles by God's choice. The Lord Jesus declared that He had a specific mission for Paul: "This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel" ( Acts 9:15). Paul had been set apart from birth and called by God's grace so that he might "preach [Christ] among the Gentiles" ( Galatians 1:15-16).

Are you a Gentile? Then you need to go to the Apostle Paul to find out how to be saved, what we cal "born again".

This passage of scripture is 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, but verse three and four, is the Gospel, the good news that Christ took our place so that we might have live everlasting.

Jesus commanded his 12 Disciples NOT to go to the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 1-7, and then about eighteen years later, he sent Paul to the Gentiles, WHY? Because he had a different Gospel for the Gentiles, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31. That Gospel is for the Jews. And Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" You can plainly see they are different. Peter, nor any of the 12 apostles preach that "Jesus died for our sins" as Paul did. Check out these two scriptures John 20:31, and 1st Corinthians 15:3,4.

God called you

from the beginning

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." Other verses say, "foundation of the world,"

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" But we were not "in him" until we received him. So, how did God call you by Paul's Gospel before the foundation of the world? Pete says it was "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." 1 Peter 1:2. elect, and chosen have the same meaning. So, God looked forward in time, and saw all those gentiles who would believe Paul's Gospel, and all the Jews who would believe John's Gospel: John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." and Paul's Gospel for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" And those are the ones that was Chose before the foundation of the world. Do you see the difference in these two Gospels? Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles during the Age of Grace, often called the Church age. and John's Gospel in for the Jews before the age of Grace, and the Great Tribulation after the age of Grace. And Believing is the way you receive Jesus as the Christ, the son of God, for the Jews. And believing Paul's Gospel is the way yo

Hello Kristina,

In my experiences and perception, along with Scripture, you are correct. As of coarse He is our Lord and Eternal King. What started from a very personal experience with the Lord I was led to this answer in the Bible about Jesus being our brother. As when we are born again of the Spirit we are also children of God and joint-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:15-17. Some Scriptures about Jesus being our brother. These are for you:

Matthew 12:50

Romans 8:29

John 6:38

John 20:17

( 1 Corinthians 9:5

Hebrews 2:11

Hebrews 2:17

I hope that helps. God Bless.

Tongues were a sign gift to the Jews, because their Nation started under Moses with sign and wanders; miracles of all sorts. The tongues sign was to bear witness to the Gospel for the Jews ( John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." So if someone was speaking in tongues today, would they be speaking to Jews; for the Gentiles don't need a sing?

Peter never preach that Christ died for our sins, His Gospel is different from Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles. In Matthew chapter tem Jesus commanded his disciples not to go to the Gentiles; the only exception is Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and preached to one Gentile in Acts 10. The Apostle John's Gospel to the Jews is John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Plainly the Gospel, but different. Plus the kingdom of God was taken from the Jews in Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Paul had to explain his Gospel to the disciples about 18 years or so later. When Paul preach to 12 Jews in Acts 19, he preached almost the same gospel as Act 2:38. The Gospel for the Jews, and the Gospel for the Gentiles are plainly different.

Thank you Mark. I suppose Jesus' Wrists were pierced & nailed to the tree, as nails in the palm of the hand would just tear through the flesh because of the weight of the body. Then reading John 20:25-27, would mean His Wrists, rather than hands.

Remember Chris: tongues were for a sign unto the Jews bearing witness to the Gospel to the Jews ( John 20:31) because the Jews require a sign, or they would not believe. Gentiles do not need a sign to believe.

No problem Paul,

On this "God and Jesus are not the same" all I can do is give you my perception on this. As other people may have different views. Maybe others more learned than I would like to share but I will proclaim what I feel about our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not believe Jesus Christ is God the Father as it seems pretty obvious to me as they are two, Father and Son. Although things like Jesus stating "I and the Father are One" and "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" some people may use those to proclaim that "Jesus is God". As I have said before I really have no problem with people saying Jesus is God as they are One. As God is Spirit the Father being in the Son and the Son in the Father is truth. They being One. All things that the Father has have been given to the Son.

Jesus Christ being the Elect or Chosen One of God. He is the Word of God and the Perfect Lamb of God. The Mediator between God Almighty and man. Sent to us by our Perfect Father in Heaven to bear our sins on His shoulders.( 1 John 2:1-2. By the Glorious Grace and love that God has for us. I believe Isaiah 42 is a good chapter, in the Old Testament, that speaks about Jesus Christ.

Maybe some other verses of Jesus and the Father not being the "same" even though they are One:

Proverbs 30:4

Matthew 26:39

John 8:17-18

John 20:17

( 1 Timothy 2:5

The Book of John is my favorite out of the four books of the journey of Chirst. Reading chapter 15-17 is good to see correlation between the Father and Son.

I hope what I have replied helps you. This is Truth to me in how my eyes have been lead to perceive the Lord Jesus Christ. And no person has taught me these things.

God Bless you brother.

Jane,

I believe it was his earthly body, and there are two reasons for why I believe that. Firstly, the grave clothes were empty, and secondly, he had the prints of the nails and wound in his side, from his crucifixion to offer to Thomas. John 20:5,6,7 and v.27

Simply put Faith is something you believe in without a doubt. example, when you sit in a chair that you have never sat in before, do you check it out to make sure that it is safe or do you just sit in it, trusting that it was built to hold a human weight. This, to me would be an example of Faith that it was built to be safe. Or when you see a little child and see the trust they have in their parents to protect and nourish them, this is another example of Faith. Throughout the NT there are many examples of Faith, John 20:25 Thomas who just spent 3 years with Jesus, but had doubt on His resurrection, until Jesus showed himself to him, Mark 5:25-34 is of a woman who had an issue of blood, and believed, and she was healed. Matthew 8:10 the Roman centurion believed and his servant was healed. Likewise as Christians we need to believe that Jesus death and resurrection on the cross is the only way to our salvation. Hebrews chapter 11 Paul explains faith in great detail, Matthew 18:3 tells us to become and believe as a child. I hope this helps.

John 20:25 "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, 27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. 28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. 29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. Mark 5:34 "And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague."

Matthew 8:10 "When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel."

These are all verses directed to Yehsua below; My God John 10:28, Thy throne of God Heb 1:8

Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

1. Your throne, O God. ( Hebrews 1:8)

2. Thy throne, O God. ( Psalms 45:6)

3. the Word was God. ( John 1:1)

4. My God. ( John 20:28)

5. The mighty God. ( Isaiah 9:6)

6. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( Titus 2:13)

7. the Lord God ... the Almighty. ( Revelation 1:8)

I really like Bob how you used 0 scriptures in your response!

Bob if Yeshua is less god then God the Father then are also you less human then your father!

My brother Robert,

Well at least thank you for replying to me. Although you gave no answer to the one question I asked about the verse. That the the Spirit of Truth shall not speak of himself but what he shall hear. That's ok though. Nobody knows everything.

The reply you gave to brother Adam doesn't answer anything, for me, really. I know of many names that are of God Almighty(Father) that are not of Jesus Christ and vice versa. As you stated there are some they both use.

John 20:17 is good: Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus stating "go to my brethren". Is God our Father or Brother? I call God Father just as Jesus Christ did. Since receiving the Holy Spirit of adoption from Him.

Here's one passage in the old testament speaking of a Father and Son. Proverbs 30:4

And one about Gods Servant or Elect One. Isaiah 42:1

Just a couple names referring to the Father and not Jesus Christ: The Most High, Lord of Hosts, Ancient of Days, God of gods, The Vine Grower, Our Father which art in Heaven etc.

Some names referring to Jesus Christ not God the Father: The Son of God, The Anointed One(Christ or Messiah), High Priest, The Bread of Life, Mediator between God and men, The Vine, Lamb of God, Chief corner Stone etc.

And of coarse many names both the Father and Son share. As they are One in each other. Although I do not believe the Son is the Father and the Father is the Son as you do.

Either way I have no problem with how you portray our Lord. I respect you either way. That you are with Jesus Christ our Salvation. That is the important part. I hope you don't think less of me, or us who perceive differently, brother. May our Lord Bless you with peace and good health. Amen.

"There is not a single verse that says Jesus is God the Son" bla bla bla Son of God.. Here does it say straight out GOD, Almighty, Mighty GOD. This is not an eye problem but an heart problem for the deity of Yeshua The Messiah

1. Your throne, O God. ( Hebrews 1:8)

2. Thy throne, O God. ( Psalm 45:6)

3. the Word was God. ( John 1:1)

4. My God. ( John 20:28)

5. The mighty God. ( Isaiah 9:6)

6. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( Titus 2:13)

7. the Lord God ... the Almighty. ( Revelation 1:8)

8. God and Savior Jesus Christ. ( 2 Peter 1:1)

"Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy." Hebrews 1:8

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Psalm 45:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Titus 2:13 ( God, and, savior, our, Isous, Christou).

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

edited edition

Daniel. D

John 20:28, "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". Neither did Jesus rebuke Thomas for saying what he did, in recognizing that Jesus was indeed the Son of God & the One Who came out of God. And his exclamation was not one of surprise but of affirmation when He finally realized Who this Jesus is & the sin of doubt that he carried.

"There is not a single verse that says Jesus is God the Son" bla bla bla Son of God.. Here does it say straight out GOD, Almight, Mighty GOD. This is not an eye problem but an heart problem for the deity of Yeshua The Messiah

1. Your throne, O God. Heb 1:8

2. Thy throne, O God. Ps 45:6

3. the Word was God. John 1:1

4. My Go.d John 20:28

5. The mighty. God Isa 9:6

6. God and Savior. Jesus Christ

7. the Lord God / the Almighty. Rev 1:8

8. God and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:1

"Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You above Your companions with the oil of joy." Hebrews 1:8

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Psalm 45:6

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ Titus 2:13

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Pet 1:1