Discuss Luke 12 Page 9

Luke 12:10 is in the New Testament. This verse is 100% clear to me what it means and it applies to everyone. I don't see any other way to interpret it. Christians are not immune to this, Christians must still be obedient, and Christians still have freewill.

First, this you quoted is an Old Testament verse; Jesus hadn't died for anybody's sins yet; And no one was born again.

Luke 12:10 "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

whether a person blasphemes the Holy Ghost or not, they are headed for hell. for they are all condemned. John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." So it's not as easy as just finding a verse like that and wrongfully applying it, You must put in the Age of Grace, or it is taken out of context.

Hi Charles,

Those are excellent verses you listed, but they don't prove that once saved, always saved. The only verse someone needs to see to refute that is: Luke 12:10. It says if anyone (including Christians) commits blasphemy of the holy ghost they won't be forgiven. You are welcome to read my other post for more scripture, but all someone needs to see is that one verse to see that someone can be a Christian then still has the freewill to do the opposite and not be saved. God bless...

First, we aren't actually saved until judgement day. Some say we're 'saved' when we 'accept' Jesus Christ into our heart, but no where in the Bible does it say that. What it actually says is to be a Christian is this: Link

A Christian is a Christ follower- it means we are actively following Christ. If we genuinely do that the Bible says our sins will be covered by Jesus's sacrifice and grace. However, just because we become a Christian doesn't mean we're stripped of freewill and become robots- we still have full ability to choose good or evil, to sin or not sin, and we're still tempted by satan. Therefore, some people slip up occasionally and sin, but still genuinely try to follow Christ, however, some do stop, turn and follow satan and follow the evil of the world. That person is not saved and they are technically not acting like a Christian anymore.

Those who claim once saved always saved always fail to explain one simple indisputable verse: Luke 12:10. Jesus tells his followers (Christians) that if they commit blashphemy of the holy ghost they will not be saved. Hebrews 10:26 is another indisputable verse that was talking to Christians, saying that Christianity isn't a license to sin, or a get out of jail free card. Non-Christians who haven't received the knowledge of the truth as it says have ignorance as an excuse and doesn't apply to them.

Here's anther: Hebrews 6:4 - 6:6 and another: Matthew 7:21 - 7:23

The Bible speaks for itself. Only would have to cherry pick around all these 100% clear verses in order to come up with the opposite conclusion.

Satan is behind all lies and he's a great deceiver, so which is more likely: that he's deceiving people to fear God and obey Him more than they need to? Or, is it more likely satan is deceiving people into believing they're saved and it's ok to sin and follow the world?

God bless...

If God is not, "one being but three distinct persons (Trinity)", as you claim, than scripture must be wrong. Than as Paul states "God forbid". In John 14:26 why then did Jesus call the Comforter (Holy Ghost) "he" as in reference to a person as opposed to "it" as you would describe him, or in John 16:7 "but if I depart, I will send "him" unto you," another reference to the Holy Ghost, as a person. 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

These are but a few scriptures to support that the Holy Ghost is a distinct part of the Trinity of God.

As per your claim "The Spirit is not a person" it would be nice to see some scripture to support your view.

Luke 12:12,

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7-16 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Matthew 10:32

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 12:8

Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 John 4:15

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

John 12:42

Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

Romans 14:11

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philippians 2:11

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

2 John 1:7

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Romans 15:9

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

John 9:22

These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It seems to mean the one unforgivable sin is not having the Holy Spirit, because those without the Holy Spirit people don't have their debts paid by the blood of the Lamb. So rejecting God and Jesus's sacrifice in their place is unforgivable because forgiveness is through the blood.

Once someone accepts Jesus's sacrifice in their place, and puts their faith in Him, that condition no longer exists, and all can be forgiven.

Rebecca, may the Spirit grace you with his understanding.

Most things in God's word have to be discerned by applying multiple scriptures and all applied against:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing (Holy Ghost in you) which ye have received (by grace) of him (Holy Ghost) abideth in you, and you NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU; but as the same anointing (the Holy Ghost) teacheth you ALL things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it (the Holy Ghost) hath taught you, ye shall abide (become one) in him (the Holy Ghost).

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have HEARD him (the Holy Ghost), and have been taught by him (the Holy Ghost), as the truth is in Jesus (THE WORD OF GOD).

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by HEARING, and HEARING by the WORD OF GOD (studying, meditating).

The scriptures were written by men under the influence of the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 19:10 .... for the testimony (words) of Jesus (THE WORD) is the spirit of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:21 For prophecy came.....as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Now to your question, what does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Ghost. Since the WORD (truth) was written by the Holy Ghost, you blaspheme when you call his WORD a lie. Example:

1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is GOOD AND ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Saviour; who WILL HAVE all men to be saved, and come to the KNOWLEDGE of the truth.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, thy WILL BE DONE in earth, as it (HIS WILL) is in heaven.

1 Timothy 4:10-11 .....who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.

(vs) 11 These things COMMAND AND TEACH.

Psalm 22:27 ALL the ends of the world shall REMEMBER and TURN unto the LORD: and ALL KINDREDS OF THE NATIONS SHALL WORSHIP BEFORE THEE.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (Father) that put ALL THINGS under him (Son) that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

WE all blaspheme on our journey to TRUTH just REPENT and TURN to the new found TRUTH.

Rebecca this is one of the most misunderstood scriptures in Gods Word, but think about an action against Gods Word an individual cannot be forgiven of, the answer is just as you can be born again of the True God , an individual can be born again of the devil that cannot be reversed an example Jesus Christ when speaking to in John 8:42-44 hes speaking to religious leaders and carefully look at what he says, your father the devil, that an incredible statement God showed him where they were coming from. Which is why he said you will die in your sin. Keep something in mind were talking about an action unforgivable.

Very simply, it means that the Words of God spoken or the Work of God done in the Power of the Holy Spirit, is being attributed to Satan. This is also what the Jewish leaders were accusing Jesus of: Jesus' claim to be God's Son & His position at God's right Hand ( Matthew 26:63-65). Rather, they were the ones who blasphemed by claiming that Jesus did His miracles under Satanic power ( Matthew 12:22-32).

Therefore, this should remind us to be careful when judging another's words or work in the Lord's Name - we might just find ourselves speaking against the Lord & the Truth, even if done ignorantly.

What does blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost mean in the bible?

Mark 3:28-29

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

BUT he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath NEVER FORGIVENESS , but is in DANGER of eternal damnation:

Luke 12:10

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

2 Timothy 3:2

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

The Work of the Holy Spirit. John 16

"I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5But now I am going to him (Father) who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper (HOLY SPIRIT) will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8And when HE comes, HE will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in ME; 10concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world (Satan) is judged.

12"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13When the Spirit of truth comes, HE will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he HEARS, he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

My comment: if the Holy Spirit is not calling you (in your born again spirit), to return to Jesus, you are in danger of blaspheming.

Mishael

Brother Joseph. You've not erred in any way. You've come here to present something that has been weighing much on your heart & whoever reads your submission, must sense in a very real way, the pain & despondency you feel. The Christian life is not just about our spiritual strengths & weaknesses, but also the physical part of us that weigh us down affecting both the body & spirit. So by your sharing, I think many have been moved to pray for you & that you will sense the Lord's enabling to strengthen your resolve to abstain from unnecessary eating & to commit every part of your life (physical & spiritual) to the One Who delights to help us.

Those were lovely pertinent Scriptures you quoted from John 6:32 onwards & Luke 12:31. As we feast on Him our Living Bread, He will feed us with what we need & will satisfy us completely. Jeremiah 33:3: "Call unto me (says the Almighty), and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not." Many have not even begun to taste the extent of the Lord's Goodness, simply because they have not, in faith, called out to Him. He delights to hear his children call on Him & He delights to answer them & reveal His Mighty Arm of Power & Love. May the Lord be very close to you in your journey with Him & supply you with what you need to be His overcomer.

Thank you Chris but I realize I have erred in the faith not only because I asked a Carnal question but I realized I had to seek Christ Jesus because he is the true bread of life. Luke 12:31 But seek ye first the kingdom and all these things shall be added unto you.

Hello, I believe these verses explain and provide the answer to your question:

Matthew 10:28

Luke 12:5

Matthew 7:13-29

Link

Raising a family, working a couple jobs, sending kids to a Christian school. working long hrs. turned into more than I knew I needed. We fail to draw the line when it comes to those things that are important and those that are needful! Peace ,love and joy, were not evidence of a thriving family. Sin, poor decisions, unholy friends, only contributed to further dissimulation. The family that loves Jesus first , will be the happiest! Christ first in all things! Rich or poor put Him first!

This chapter relates to the time of David's struggle against King Saul, at which time the various tribes & others dedicated themselves to David to fight against Saul.

Of the Tribe of Issachar, we read that the two hundred chiefs of Issachar who were faithful to David, are described as those who "understood the times & knew what Israel should do". There are various interpretations to this. 1. these men were politically knowledgeable knowing how to discern & use current events to their advantage. 2. that they were known for their understanding of astronomy & physical science. 3. as men of wisdom, prudence & religious scholarship, they knew that the time had come for David to take over kingship.

It is my opinion that given the background of these remarks about the chiefs of Issachar, it seems likely that their skills in understanding the political situation, with the resources of armed men available to David & knowledge of the Scriptures, these chiefs were able to offer guidance to David concerning the next steps that he should take. One of the first matters of discussion was the returning of the Ark of God, for which Issachar may have taken a lead role.

For us today, as Christians we have the Spirit of Christ in us to give us wisdom & guidance in matters of life, both physical & spiritual. When we read & study God's Word as well, we understand what the Mind & Will of God is. Using this knowledge & help, we are expected to keep abreast with what is going on around us, discerning the times we live in thus being careful in our lives & offer guidance to those without knowledge & seeking. Issachar was ready to advise David - we too should be full of God's Word, ready to share the Truth to others in light of the world's events. Jesus spoke of this in Luke 12:54-57, about those who could accurately forecast the weather, but their knowledge didn't extend to a proper understanding of the Scriptures/Prophets about the coming Messiah.

Wesley's Commentary for Luke 12:55

12:53 The father against the son - For those who reject me will be implacable toward their very nearest relations who receive me. At this day also is this scripture fulfilled. Now likewise there is no concord between Christ and Belial.

12:54 And he said to the people also - In the preceding verses he speaks only to his disciples. From the west - In Judea, the west wind, blowing from the sea, usually brought rain: the south wind, blowing from the deserts of Arabia, occasioned sultry heat. # Mt 16:2|.

12:56 How do ye not discern this season - Of the Messiah's coming, distinguishable by so many surer signs.

12:57 Why even of yourselves, without any external sign, judge ye not what is right? - Why do ye not discern and acknowledge the intrinsic excellence of my doctrine?

What is the meaning of Luke 12:49_56?

I've seen this same discussion played out repeatedly online and I'm not sure if either party learns anything from the exchange. The scriptures shared to support each point of view doesn't seem surprising to either party, but some seem to put more emphasis on one set of scriptures and less on another. Both sides agree grace through faith is what saves Ephesians 2:8-9. I've noticed that one side sometimes assumes the other side doesn't believe in grace, but that's a false assumption. I think the key question is how important is it to avoid sin? According to Jesus very important: Matthew 5:48.

Many of the parables were spoken to his followers (Christians) to fear God and keep his commandments and that narrow is the gate leading to heaven (few will find it) and wide is the gate leading to hell. If all Christians are already saved what's the point of trying? Maybe not all Christians who assume they are saved are and maybe some are lukewarm. Matthew 7:21-23. I think it's safe to say that Christianity is an active religion- the term literally means a Christ follower which involves action and movement.

If someone follows Christ I believe they can have confidence in their salvation. John 5:24 If someone lives an entire life of sin and follows the world and puts their treasure in the world and not in heaven, but they were sprinked as a baby or responded to an altar call 40 years ago, are they really a Christ follower? God is the judge, but I think that person should be afraid of going to hell and should turn from evil and follow Jesus, because of scriptures like Luke 12:5.

We're all impefect and sin, just as Paul admitted he struggled with, but that shouldn't stop someone from trying very hard to avoid sin, be obedient, and be a light to the world as Jesus said. I think someone who thinks they earned a get out of jail free card and uses it as a license to enjoy a life of sin and pursue evil will be surprised in the end as predicted in Matthew 7:21-23.

In His parable, Jesus was pointing out that a person's heart is either towards God or to mammon (money, goods, pleasures) - Matthew 6:24. This man had no concern for God or God's requirements & indeed his own afterlife - his focus was on himself & to enjoy what he had accomplished by his own hands, constantly watching his wealth becoming even greater in the passing years.

Had he given God the first place rather than himself, it would have demonstrated that even with his bountiful harvests & substance, he would have acknowledged that it was God Who blessed him with these things, he would have also given of his substance to the needy around him & his own faith & love for God would have increased. I believe, in the Old Covenant economy, this rich man could have been wise in God's Eyes & not foolish, & would have been accepted by God as a man of faith & love for the people around him. Rather than being a self-centred rich 'fool', he would have been a people-centric wise man who was rich towards God having a heart towards God & not self.

I enjoyed reading your sermons.What would happened if the rich(fool) would have given God first place in his planning ?

Page 2.

Re: Hell. In the Bible the words used for Hell can be applied to both grave & a place of torment. In Genesis 37:35 we see the word 'Sheol' used. In Luke 16:23, Hades is used. Both words can be depicted as Hell, but its application calls for one being a grave & the other, a place of torment. As also with 'Gehenna': it may have had its roots in the Valley of Hinnom where the atrocities of human burning took place, but in Scripture ( Matthew 5:22, Luke 12:5) & references in Revelation 19,20 clearly speaks of a place other than that near Jerusalem where eternal torment of those judged unworthy to partake of God's Kingdom. I've only given a few Scriptures on this for want of space.

And yes, Jesus was in the grave (sepulchre, 'mnemeion') for three days before appearing to Mary. Blessings.

Kathy, the Proverbs are generally individual words of wisdom or proverbial truths, but sometimes we see some connections, as in Proverbs 16:2,3.

Verse 2: man's perception of himself & his actions will be deemed as correct & honourable but the Lord does not see as man does, for God weighs (or, takes into account, measures) the inner thoughts or motives of man.

In contrast we see in verse 3: when that man does not justify his actions by his own reckoning (v2) rather commits his works (his deeds, plans, designs) to the Lord, then even his thoughts (what man plans to do further as a result of first looking to the Lord) will be confirmed & established by the Lord.

The Truth here is that when the child of God first seeks the Lord, committing his actions to Him, then he can trust the Lord to bring it to pass even when he feels that he may be doing things from his own mind. The act of calling upon the Lord & trusting Him to work on one's behalf will mean that the Lord will also lead him throughout that endeavour.

Some associated Scriptures that give weight to this Truth are in: Psalm 37:4,5; Proverbs 3:5,6; Luke 12:30,31.

Scriptures regarding our thoughts: Romans 12:2; Philippians 4:8.

Thank you, the Israeli household explanation answers my question. God bless!!

The important point of this lesson is the division that will come, not necessarily the count. Jesus Christ is the great dividing line in humanity, whether we are his or not. We are shown here that even our families and households, where unity is presumed, will not be exempt.

The list of relationships would be typical of a household in Israel. Father/son, mother/daughter, mother in law/daughter in law. If married, a daughter would then be joined to her husband's household.

Matthew 10:34-38 is a parallel passage emphasizing that Jesus Christ must be our primary allegiance, above even our closest kin.

Why is the number of the family chosen to be 5? Does it represent anything? Any reference from other chapters of the bible?

Mishael, the Spirit grace us with his words, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire ( Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire) before Satan. Revelation 19 is describing those that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb, one cannot be the bride of Christ without partaking of the marriage supper of the Lamb. Being invited to the Lamb's supper means one partakes of the lake of fire (for our God is a consuming fire). Luke 12:49 I (Spirit of God, in flesh) am come to send fire upon the earth (mankind); and what will I (the Spirit of God be) if it (fire) be already kindled? (vs) 50 But I (Spirit of God,in flesh) have a baptism (of fire) to be baptized with, and how am I (Spirit of God) straitened till it (baptism of fire) be accomplished! Matthew 3:11 ....he (Spirit of God) shall baptize you (children of Satan, everyone is a child of this world before they are born of the seed of the Spirit) with the Holy Ghost and with fire (our God is a consuming fire). Since the Spirit is eternal the fire is eternal. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful (were you once fearful), and unbelieving (were you once unbelieving), and murders (did you once hate you brothers) ....all liars (did you once lie). The Spirit graces us with the lake of fire Malachi 3:1 ....and the Lord whom ye seek, shall suddenly appear (at your rebirth) in his temple (you,the Spirits throne, heaven), (vs) 2 But who may abide the day of his coming? for he (the Spirit of truth) is like a refiners fire and fullers soap. Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord (Spirit) shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion.....by the spirit of judgement, and by the spirit of burning. (vs) 5 And the Lord (Spirit) will create (new birth) upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud (like the cloud over the tabernacle in Moses day) by day , and the shining of a flaming fire by night...(and when the cloud moved the people moved and when cloud stood still the people stood still)

Lynn, beware of making assumptions about me or the Bible.

Romans 6 doesn't say what you've been saying. It's not a hall pass to commit and enjoy unlimited intentional sinning. Have you read the whole chapter? The first 2 verses contradicts the idea of you can't sin. It clearly says do NOT continue in sin in verse 1, and verse 23 is another warning to avoid sin. Freedom from sin doesn't mean unlimited sinning with no consequence, verse 15. V16: obey. V18 "servants of righteousness"

I've have never met anyone who claims they are without sin and that sin doesn't apply and that God is fine with you sinning, because "it's not sin". That's a distortion of the gospel. He didn't die for you so you could take advantage of him and enjoy sin and do evil all you want. That's not Christianity. The definition of a Christian is a Christ-follower and if someone isn't following and trying to emulate Jesus Christ then they aren't a Christian. Jesus called us to a ridiculously high standard that none can achieve. Only Jesus was perfect on earth, not you. You are a sinner just like everyone else and you still do sin, but if you genuinely follow Jesus and are genuinely trying to obey his commands then you're covered by grace for all our sins. It's not a hall pass so you can act wicked in the world and can commit all kinds of evil. Do you understand the difference?

Most people will go to hell. Narrow is the gate that leads to heaven. That means if 2/3 of the world believes in God that only a portion of those who call themselves Christians will go to heaven. Matthew 7:23. It's not about being 'good' or 'earning it', but about genuinely following Jesus. If you genuinely follow Jesus you would be serious about obeying him and avoiding sin. If you don't then you don't love Jesus. John 14:15. If someone doesn't love Jesus, in my opinion they are probably going to hell. This is a serious situation. People who consider themselves Christians will go there and should be afraid. Luke 12:5.

Larry, I've also thought over this dilemma as well over the years, and the only answer I can offer is that in fact we all suffer in one form or another. I know you specifically mentioned physical pain & suffering & that is one part of the whole. Sometimes, emotional pain & mental anguish can come under the same umbrella of physical suffering that each one faces in life. And their severity can be as harsh & painful as the physical.

You may be thinking of a special instance of some going through the mill with pain while others appear to be free from it. As you may agree, since we are all sinners & suffer the effects of it (whether in the physical, spiritual, emotional or mental spheres), I don't believe that anyone can sail through this life without pain in some form. It is true that some do suffer far more than others, but all do suffer & then finally have pain's last stab at us at the cessation of this life.

The Psalmist, Asaph, in Psalm 73 spoke of a similar dilemma, "Why do the wicked go through life without pain (v 5), speak against God (vv 9, 11) & live in prosperity (v 12)?" His answer: "Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction. How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors." (vv 18, 19). He saw their end (their eternal suffering) as far worse as opposed to those (who suffer in this life) but have their trust in the Lord. So pain experienced in life to the Psalmist was transitory - the pain of being estranged from God after death is eternal.