Discuss Luke 16 Page 2

Job 27:8-10

"For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?/Will God hear his cry when trouble cometh upon him?/ Will he delight himself in the Almighty? will he always call upon God?"

The Book of Job is a set of parables and in this chapter we are dealing with a parable which is the core value of the book. How do we place the sensory values of flesh and blood in terms of soul in terms of the redemption of our soul?. This parable follows twelve other parables.

"Moreover Job continued his parable"(27:1). The above text explains the dilemma of man whose heart is a spiritual space. Forgiving as the Parable of Jesus teaches in Matt.18 is not as personal as one may think. For man chosen before the worlds began and marked for blessings in his Son is a sign as much as God who called him is a sound. "For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."(1 Ti.6:7) Job puts it eloquently since he is a victim of his human condition, "And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."( Job 1:21). God blessed his latter half, " also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before." (42:10). We read that God gave same number of children since the children that he had before were already in the presence of God. This begs the question. Is not the fulness of Christ is also that of God which our natural eyes cannot take in? It is called the land of the living where God is the God of the living. "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,/I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."(Matt.22:31-32)

The unforgiving servant for an hundred pence would put his soul in jeopardy. His soul was cast out as was the rich man, "for I am tormented in this flame"( Luke 16:24)

Re.12:6 "Abraham's Bosom"

We have the Parable of Jesus to indicate where the dead in Christ go to. "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;/And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."( Luke 16:22-23). Abraham's bosom and the depths are alike in the heavenly places. In Job 41 we have a clue to the rich man's discomfort. "Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron./His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth." (41:20-21) The place has another name 'bottomless pit' which is guarded by an angel Abbadon/Apollyon.(Re.9:11) As Abraham explains to the rich man in torment "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."( Luke 16:26) This fixity is like a door shut after the rapture. This is illustrated in the Parable of the Five Foolish Virgins' where the peril of negligence is very clear. "And the door was shut./Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us./But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."(Matt.25:10-12)

The direct line of vision does not ever change. While alive the beggar was in direct line of vision the rich man could see him at the gate. After death we find the rich man from his place could see Lazarus resting in the bosom of Abraham. There is another instance this direct line of vision is rather brought out indirectly. Moses brings people to meet God and when He descends the mountain quaked. "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because theLorddescended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly."(Ex.19: 16-18) . The same smoke from the bottomless pit, "and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace"(v.2

Re.12:16 "the earth"

"And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."

God chose inheritors in light before the foundation of the world. They are as stars.

God set the children of wrath also in heavenly places. The word of God forever settled in heaven can change their composition. Faith of man is what God seeks. "TheLordlooked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God."(Ps.14:2)

Light and darkness have their own configurations so principalities, powers and rulers of the darkness of this world, have their correspondence with spiritual wickedness in high places. For example Michael an archangel fighting with his angel have rulers of the darkness in the depths. Behemoth is one such. "He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him." ( Job 40:19). He is not to be confused with hippo or croc of the Nile. "Thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters, and thy footsteps are not known." Just as God garnished the heavens with starry host the crooked serpent or behemoths are grouped under 'thy way'.(Ps.77.19). In the same discourse God tells Job, "Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth."(40:23)

The Single measurement which God has laid down where man and angel are composite realities on the Spirit that rules throughout His kingdom. What signifies a time, times and a half? Ministry of Jesus as the Spirit of Christ refer to the wonders he did is a time. For example the spiritual Rock,(1 Co.10:3-4) Times refer to the the slain Lamb-Re.13:8 and the Paschal Lamb heaven and earth and a half represents the gospel he preached in his Spirit to the souls in prison.

After rapture what is left of the earth are eternal habitations "that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."( Luke 16:9)

Luke 16:19-31 "The Shroud" (2 of 2)

God separated waters on the second day which runs into eternity. It is the river of time. Everlasting blessing as promised under the covenant from everlasting to everlasting; on the other hand there is stream of fire that ends up at the lake of fire. Blessed is the man who is planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season."(Ps.1:3)

What is the heart of man where he is in the line of vision where the cloud of witnesses stand in attendance. So when Enoch and Noah walk with God, " and he was not; for God took him." (Ge.5:24). The Spirit does not have to mention concerning their vile bodies. Dust to dust is with regards to the outer man. The inner man was represented already as an angel in the presence of the Father. There is only single measurement in the world of the Spirit, man-angel. This speaks about the body God has prepared for the Son.(2 Co.5:1-3) So when Jesus Christ comes in glory with his holy angels they are right there. "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:/ For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:/ Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me:... Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?/And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." (Matt.25:34-40)

Who was Lazarus? He represented Christ. Since his atonement covered him the Rich man despised him. What shall we speak of present class wars? Are we not despising Christ on the basis colour or race when we make their faith and ministry invisible?

Luke 16:19-31 "The shroud" (1 of 2)

"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

There is a shroud that makes the living despise the word of God even though spoken by God. This shroud is upon the worldly and when Abraham advised the rich man he spoke as one who was the most suited to inform him. Abraham was clear eyed to tell the King of Sodom, " That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich." (Ge.14:23) Faith gave him a vision so his inner man knew where to look for his life and godliness. "By faith he sojourned in the land of promise,as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:/For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." (He.11:9-10)

The Parable sets Lazarus in the line of vision of the rich man. He is a beggar and every time he looked for guests to arrive in he might have looked but he is not seen? What kind of vision is it, if I look at my watch but do not know what hour is it? This is the kind of blindness the rich man had developed. "And the vail that is spread over all nations" is what Satan has cast since he made man fall. Like the rich fool in the parable his heart left no room for anything other than his self aggrandisement. On death the rich man is set down in a place from where he can see the same Lazarus now in bliss. What is the gulf? The river of time of course. It is unbroken from everlasting to everlasting; on the other hand there is stream of fire that ends up at the lake of fire. Daniel's night vision shows the fiery throne "And his wheels as burning fire./A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him."(Dan.7:9-10)

Everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and his angels: ( Matt. 25:41) It is thus the heart of man has to reckon both worlds.

Consider for a moment someone who is kind and considerate all his life to friends; family and others but either doesn't believe or never shares the Gospel with them. Many would say "he is a good man"-and we are reminded of those who said that about Jesus or that He was a prophet but not recognized as God in the flesh.

Meanwhile consider someone else who is characteristically gruff; loudmouthed; opinionated and overall a pain to be around who takes the time to correctly explain the Gospel; but of course befitting his usual character doesn't show empathy or bothers to listen much to any responses or otherwise be very helpful even with practical needs that are obvious to others such as atheists who reach out.

Natural man; of course would hang out with the first person and be repulsed with the second; but in all fairness the second person is the one who gives a message in which eternity hangs in the balance. Such a case study of course isn't to justify such an approach to witnessing; but to also avoid what is far WORSE; that is showing all sorts of compassion to someone but WATERING down the Gospel; and not giving a clear warning of the deadly and eternal destruction which every unbeliever is about to face as life is as a vapor.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Galatians 1:10

For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

Praise and highly esteeming a brother seems rare today but it can be edifying

Greetings in Christ JESUS, SeanPaul'

Yes,certainly,as you said,GOD HIMSELF manifested himself to the Hebrews through the OT;which was written by the twenty-four elders,starting with Moses,understand?By the way,JESUS said GOD is Spirit- John 4:24-,what is the name of the invisible Spirit of GOD?Well,GOD had said in the beginning- Genesis 1:26(the beginning is JESUS,who is the LITERAL IMAGE of GOD,He is GOD)-, yes, GOD had said:"Let us make man in OUR image,after OUR likeness", then, both are One, and as we can see, since ancient times, since Genesis, GOD revealed He would be made flesh.

By the prophet Isaiah,who is one of the 24 elders,GOD again revealed He would be made flesh, and around 2000 years ago He LITERALLY fulfilled His promise- John 1:14-and what is the NAME that GOD chose for He Himself? The NAME that GOD chose for He Himself was/is JESUS - JOSHUA-. Luke 1:26-the angel GABRIEL was sent FROM GOD(the Word is GOD,GOD Himself,self-executing) unto a city of Galilee,named Nazareth,and said to Mary:behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a SON, and shalt call his NAME JESUS. He shall be great, and called the Son of the Highest: the Lord GOD(the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing) shall give unto Him the throne of His father David.

Remember: The Jews said to JESUS: John 8:41-we have one Father, even God. And JESUS said to the Devil, father of the Jews-Yahweh:It is written,Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH OF GOD-Mat.4:4.

Psalms 110:1combined with Hebrews 1:8(plus Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1) -

GOD said to the Lord JESUS:Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy Kingdom.

KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD=JEHOVAH; ->JEHOVAH is another esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist nickname of the father of the Jews.

Luke 16:5 lord=a King or one of authority,yes, see John 18:37.

Thanks you for explaining the difference and use of the name and by whom, Now I know the difference. I don't think Bible hub will burn as I was only translating Old Testament, and the Old Testament was given in Hebrew and was given to them as there laws in Hebrew.

In KJV there are 3 different uses of the name. LORD and Lord and lord. Psalms 110:1(A Psalm of David.) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. I think this explains it best.

KJV Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2 , Exodus 6:3, Isaiah 26:4 LORD = GOD JEHOVAH, LORD GOD of Israel

KJV Psalms 110:1, Matthew 25:11, James 2:1, Isaiah 49:14, Luke 20:42, 1 Corinthians 9:1 Lord = Jesus

KJV 2 Samuel 24:3, Luke 16:5 lord = a King or one of authority

I actually found the Psalms answer on u-tube form someone studying the KJV 1611 he was proving the KJV is the true word of GOD and just so happened to answer my question at the same time. I added these verses I found because I didn't mention any books or verses in my original question because it is every translation in Old Testament I compared no matter which book or verse. And I also found this.

Yahweh is the name of Israel's God and the God who came to earth as Jesus Christ, Yahweh in the flesh. Matthew 1:21 says, "She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." The name Jesus is from the Latin form of the Greek form of Yeshua, which literally means "Yahweh saves." So Yahweh will save His people from their sins, and simultaneously Jesus will save His people from their sins. This is just one of many instances where Jesus and Yahweh are equated.

Hi Spencer and Jaz

It is true that it is surprizing also to me that the grk word "aion" (age/time) is used sometimes in the NT instead of the word "world" because in modern grk it means "century". So I have done a research and came up that in ancient grk it had the meaning apart from "a very long period of time", it also had the meaning of "the period of time a person lives".

So it was used in conjuction to people"s lives. And it seems that sometimes (but not always) the writers of the NT use it for the time that this world/humanity exists. And with that meaning it is used in Mat 28. With the same meaning it also used by Luke in Luke 16:8, by Paul in Rom 12:2 and Ephesians 6:12 where Paul talks about the "rulers of the darkness of this world" , where the word "age/time" is used for "world".

But in other verses the world "kosmos" which is the actual grk word for "world" is used, ie in John 18:20, also John 16:11 where John talks about "the prince of this world". (compare it with Ephesians 6:12 that talks about the same thing). So as a final conclusion those two words are interchanged for "world".

Spencer:

"Kosmos" in anc grk means "mankind, humanity". In mod grk it means everything, people, animals, plants. land.

"Oikoumene" means the places/land on earth where people are living.

Also the word "ktisis" is used for world, it means "creation".

Well this is enough with lessons in Greek. Confusing? We have to trust those scholars who have done a very good job in translating the NT. There isn't a perfect translation, all translations lack in some things, even modern greek can not match with ancient greek in meanings. As a conclusion all translations are more or less good. There is no actual error when other words are used as long as the meaning of the text is right. Some go word for word, others not, but there are more understandable than the former ones. Everybody has their favourite translation. We can always use 2 or more when we are not sure what it is meant. GBU

Walking in the Spirit-Study on how to see the Lord in others

Let us focus again on the Matthew 16 passage. 13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

I am hammering home this concept because it is paramount in understanding who the Lord is; and needed to be understood if anyone is to grow as a true Disciple. Let us examine several problems here. The first problem would be considering that somehow the soul of one of these three prophets was living inside Christ which seems to be the concept here; a sort of "reincarnation"; except for the case of John the Baptist who it appears Herod thought had repossessed Christ after having him killed ( Matthew 14:1-2). The concept of the Holy Ghost manifesting in someone as He did with someone else isn't entirely wrong or unscriptural; we see for instance Elisha having a double portion of the Spirit that Elijah had ( 2 Kings 2:9). John the Baptist also was like Elijah in a way ( Matthew 17:12). This correct analogy of course is NOT what people are saying. This fits in also to those who would call Him teacher or Rabbi. Luke 16:15 warns us that what is honorable among men is an abomination to God. Names and titles mean nothing; neither does human pride. Let us once again examine this concept of exaltation of Pastors.

The easy point to make here is that we should never put men on a pedestal; or substitute worship for God alone to a man.

This doesn't change the fact that we should seek examples to emulate; as it is essential for discipleship.

My first time here. So forgive me if I ask in the wrong place etc.

Psalm 75:8 says "For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; It is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: But the dregs thereof, All the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them."

In Luke 16:24 "24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

My question is does the Luke 16:24 in any way cancel out Psalm 75:8. I understand the rich man was still in the not so good part of Abraham's bosom.

However I've been told that Psalm 75:8 would not be possible since there is no water thus no moisture in hell. Even tho that to me is clearly not the full extent of hell yet. Thank for any replies, Lester

Ecalarese.

Part 2.

We should "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" ( 1 Peter 3:15). We prepare by studying God's Word for ourselves, listening to sound Bible teachers, and staying in close fellowship with Jesus. Those practices keep our own lives pure so that we are not hypocrites who preach one thing but do another Galatians 6:1.

Evangelism provides eternal benefits. Jesus encouraged His followers to "store up treasure in heaven" ( Matthew 6:19). That treasure consists of rewards for what we did on earth in His name and for His glory. It is not self-centered to make choices that will ensure eternal treasure for ourselves. Jesus told us to! Our service to Him can be as simple as offering a cup of cold water to one of His own ( Matthew 10:42). The parable of the unjust steward underscores the importance of doing whatever we can to bring people to faith in Christ ( Luke 16:1-13).

4. Evangelism is an overflow of the "hope that is within us" ( Hebrews 6:19; 1 Peter 3:15). When two people fall in love, they cannot help but let everyone around them know it. Joy shows on their faces; stars glitter in their eyes. They are eager to tell anyone who will listen about the wonderful person they love. So it is when we've fallen in love with Jesus. We cannot help but tell people about Him every chance we get. We think about Him all the time. We're drawn to His Word, to worship services, and to others who love Him. We look for opportunities to share His truth with someone who is far from Him. If Jesus is not at the forefront of our minds, we have a spiritual problem and need to address that first before we can share the "hope that is within us."

See part 3.

Continuing with conviction of the Spirit vs man made manipulation.

In light of John 16:8 it is hard to understand the concept of bending over backwards to have people feel comfortable and "fit in" to a church. In fact; I would even go so far as to say it wouldn't be a bad slogan for a church to say in their bulletin that people should "plan to feel UNcomfortable" in their services. How can the fear of the Lord be something which is entertaining to anyone?

How can to so called "hole in men's hearts that only God can fill" appeal to anyone who doesn't conceive their own hopelessness before a righteous and Holy God who they have offended and continue to do so as long as they are unregenerate? ( Psalm 7:11-13). God is angry with the wicked every day; and it is truly sad that many don't get that to appreaciate His love; mercy; and kindness that we have to understand who we are and what great cost it was that He had to send His only Son to die in our stead.

We need something powerful enough to stand against an intractable foe; who seeks to kill; steal and destroy. Let's be real; if a church wants to seek and save the lost they won't be focusing so much time on flashy entertainment; and expensive building projects but will focus on missionary efforts. Many have bought into either careless giving with unscrupulous ministries that are not biblically sound or doing a bunch of service projects without the MAIN priority being presenting the Gospel. We can't err on the other side either with resources; but I have found it is often individual efforts of laypersons on a consistant basis that have more effect than occasional outings where everything tends to be rather scripted. And of course there is the BIG issue of cult personalities where noteriety becomes a snare; sadly that seems to have occured with Billy Graham when he didn't protest having a star in hollywood with his name on a pavement. SEE LUKE 16:15. We don't need approval of politicians or the world.

Hi Ricky.

You will receive different understandings of this. This is something you will need to pray and study for your own conscience. There are some things to question. Is Luke 16:19-31 a parable or is it something that truly happened? Study chapters 15 and 17 and consider what Jesus is teaching.

One thing that influences our understanding is the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul. When we die do we sleep in death until resurrection or do we go to heaven or go to a burning hell for eternity? What does scripture support? Does scripture say we are awake in death?

My understanding is we sleep in death until we are resurrected, and the gift of immortality is not given until resurrection to those chosen and faithful. Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, and the context of this chapter is the love of money and stewardship, Jesus was addressing this to the Pharisees who loved money, "No servant can serve two masters".

God bless,

RLW

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ( Rev. 21:8)

Unbelieving: The first verse that comes to mind here is the man with a son that had a demon possessed son who was being thrown into water; etc. That passage is Mark 9:24 and the whole incident is worth reading to understand further how there was rampant lack of faith as well as preparation for casting out the demon. REALIZING we have unbelief results from the Holy Spirit changing us; it is not what is often a false gospel of not having faith enough for a family member to be healed; or some power trip by a ministry more interested in notoriety and ultimately greedy for gain with someone given a title of "healer". We can say at the time of Christ it was indeed foolish not to believe He could work any miracles including bringing one back from death; because it was only rejecting His claim of Divinity that a person could reject Him which shows the depths of blindness of the Pharisees. The core issue which remains the same is the fact that we are all as "filthy rags" ( Isaiah 64:6) and this includes our so called "good deeds".

Abominable: Luke 16:15 shows what men hold as esteemed is an abomination before God. To esteem something shows a sort of prideful mentality; acclaim and praise is something Christ warned about in numerous passages (see Luke 6:26; another passage in this book as one example). Even calling Christ good implies that he as a mere man or prophet is good; and Christ makes it clear only God alone is good ( Mark 10:18). This is what is so dangerous about anyone who men praise; not only do they almost always practice false theology but we are convinced our own righteousness will justify us in the day of judgment.

No wonder Satan appearing as an angel of light fools lost souls ( 2 Cor. 11:14).

Mark 6:36-45 "Multiplying loaves" (2 of 2)

Jesus Christ as the Lord is the Lord of heaven so he is heavenly. All the prophets until John served the Son as the double for Jesus Christ. "The law and the prophets were until John."( Luke 16:16)

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,/Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (He.1:1-3). It is of him Moses had warned,"The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken."(De.18:15). Moses stood as a stand-in for him. So did every prophet. He is the heir so seven days in the covenant in which seven is a kangaroo word.

The Spirit gives us multiplying of loaves 8:7-9 "And he (Jesus) blessed, and commanded to set them also before them./So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets./And they that had eaten were about four thousand: and he sent them away." Here we seven baskets of the broken meat which stands as the testimony of the Son to his Father. Generally speaking the command numbers are incorporated in the God document to distinguish which is which. Considering the manner imposter church has let them proliferate shows the enemy is within the house. Jesus would soon clear his house of the Canaanites. "and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of theLordof hosts."(Ze.14:21)

Mark 5:36-45 Multiplying loaves (1 of 2)

While studying the significance of the command numbers Twelve and Seven respectively their place in the body of Scriptures is to fix the role of the Son as the heir of all things and the Son of man who is the Word become flesh. It is in the latter role whose humanity sets the doctrine of God as the good news since he died and rose again. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."(He.2:9). So he appointed the twelve in obedience to the Word who was with God.( John 1:1). By healing two, where twelve years are a reminder of the word of God stated in Ge.6:3. As the Word become flesh he obeyed the word of God. Similarly when virtue went out Jesus it was the Spirit's way of reminding that he was anointed for his ministry. He was the Servant-Messiah, fulfilling what was spoken of him by the prophets, "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses."(Matt.8:17)

For this reason the Spirit gives us the number of baskets as twelve, which serves as a testimony to God. "And they did all eat, and were filled./And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments, and of the fishes."(vv.42-43)

The Holy Spirit tags the entities who made the everlasting covenant as the Father and the Son. Of the latter John says,"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made./In him was life; and the life was the light of men."(John1:3-4). Fulfilling the divine Will of the Father we have the tag Seven which is Perfect number. Seven provisions in the covenant therefore are seven days. Thus when the angel warns "for the hour of his judgment is come" the hour is set in heaven and it is not as we count earth time. Ministry of Jesus is from heaven so what role did all the prophets until John did? ( Luke 16:16)

Mark 5:1-20 "my country" (1 of 2)

"And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country." (v.10)

Mark sets Jesus crossing" the other side of the sea into the country of the Gadarenes."The sea mentioned here is the lake of Galilee on the south. Lucan gospel explains the location so we may conclude that Jesus with his disciples arrived there from Galilee. ("which is over against Galilee".-8:26) Gadara is not directly named in the scripture but was a walled city where the Gentiles lived mostly and was a part of the Decapolis. The point of location we need note to our intent and purpose is this: geographically Gadarenes is situated on the east of the Jordan river. Crossing of the Jordan river in spiritual terms signifies death.

Jesus cast out the many demons from the man. They all had a request:"And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

"For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit."/And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many./And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country."(vv.8-10)

Unclean spirits require a body which is impossible for Satan to create. He is the father of lies and not of life. For this reason he used a serpent to beguile Eve and being cast out they had unanimously chose the herd of swine.

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."(1 Co.15:38-40). Here we have a country separate from the land of Galilee. In the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the latter had a place while Galilee signified the blessed state of the beggar. The other man's riches come in all forms and weights. Sheep, cattle and swines are part contributing to the wealth, and the rich man who wished Lazarus to visit him had chosen his own country. His cry came too late. ( Luke 16:24)

Mark 4:1-11 "Unto you given" (2 of 2)

Heresies did not occur happenstance; but their knowledge of good and evil is still where the fall of man left it. Eve let truth given to her aside and let the counsel of the serpent, that seemed better' decide. She let the context determine if it is good or evil. Thus the context of glory of this world has created in them a contextual truth so they serve both God and mammon. If Adam was not trustworthy with the glory and true riches let him as the Parable of the Shred Steward tells,"for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light./And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations./ He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much."( Luke 16:8-11)

Mark 3:31-35 "Our Father in heaven" (1 of 2)

"Who is my mother, or my brethren?"

In this passage the Spirit is setting two sets of families each representing the world of the Spirit and of the body. In the former world familial relationship is pendent to the covenant between God and Man, The latter is symbolic of heaven but in keeping with the body formed of the dust, it is the union of dust to dust and ashes to ashes. "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."(12:25; Matt.22:30). Resurrection of the dead is restoration of the covenant to its former glory where Power and glory of God renders the Man his throne so "and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."(Re.21:3)

Thus the saying of Jesus refers to the world of the Spirit,"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren./And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."(Matt.23:8-9)

In marriage man and woman leave their parents and they shall be one flesh, "And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?"( Luke 16:12; Ge.2:23)

This was provisioned for in the covenant. In Ge.1:28-29 we are shown what our Father in heaven had entrusted them with His creation. "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." This was entrusted with man in his Son. It is to this God willed and the covenant exists, and as a proof sent his only begotten Son to the world in fulness of time.

As the key verse states there is no gender difference. Only those who do the will of God.

Hello D.E.S. I agree that there isn't much given to us in the Bible to give clear teaching - it comes down to how one understands what is given. BTW, the John 3:13 reference you gave, is actually Jesus' response to Nicodemus, when he queried Jesus' Knowledge of these strange things he was hearing. Jesus told him that He was telling him things that only one from God's Presence could do; and that was of this new birth/new heart to be born again, that God required. No man has ever entered Heaven to learn such things & bring this news down to Earth, only Jesus could, He Who came down from Heaven.

That aside, I would ask you to give thought to these Scriptures: Luke 16:19-31 and Luke 23:39-43. In the Luke 16 account, Jesus gave us a glimpse of life after death (the locations of those were prior to Jesus' Own Resurrection). Here, we read that there was consciousness beyond the grave; their bodies were buried, but they were aware of their situation, of joy or pain, even of concerns.

Then the Luke 23 reference. Jesus gave the repentant thief (hanging on the Cross beside Him), the assurance that at his death, he would join Jesus in Paradise - the place of no pain & real comfort. If people today die & just remain in the grave awaiting the resurrection, then most certainly, those of Jesus' day knew that their spirits would live on in the place of God's appointment for them, while their earthly remains awaited resurrection & final judgement. Sending this for your reading & consideration & for God's Comfort & Assurance to be your daily experience.

Christ's hidden attributes.

Jesus of Nazareth came; in the flesh to fulfill numerous prophecies from the Old Testament of the Messiah to come; yet most didn't believe. This is inclusive of His own family members; the Pharisees and Saducees; and at times attitudes from His own disciples.

Eventually after He was risen the stupor was lifted at least for those who He had called and chosen. (see John 1:11; John 7:4-5).

In assessing the situation with the very real parable of Lazarus and the unnamed rich man; the very clear reality is shown that even if one was to rise from the dead they wouldn't believe ( Luke 16:31). This was proven by the soldiers and the concocted tale of how the body of Christ was stolen while they slept ( Matthew 28:13). It would be expected that the supernatural signs with the sun and moon during the Crucifixion would have been enough to convince everyone what had just happened; but we see similar things during the plagues in Revelation; yet the unregenerate in the end will attempt to fight Christ upon His return after hiding from Him during the sixth seal judgment.

Thus; the Holy Spirit is hidden from the world. Much as Christ's acts were recognized; many would not understand that He was indeed the Son of God. Some; as the Pharisees would blaspheme stating that the source was Beelzebub which prompted the warnings of Mark 3:29. Others such as the crowds being fed or those being healed were caught up with having their stomachs filled or earthly ills relieved; and as we see in Luke 17:11-19 only one of ten lepers comes back to Christ to worship Him after being healed. The rest followed Christ's instructions technically to go show themselves to the priests to affirm healing but weren't giving priority to the Messiah over Levitical law. This speaks to us on how we should not have fear to authenticate what are genuine healings as opposed to false ones which sadly are commonplace today.

Page 2.

Jesus in His teaching on this (& this account was not a parable as it does not meet the definition of a parable) is found in Luke 16:20-31, showing that the spirit of man must go somewhere. In the OT economy, where Hades was that temporary residence of departed souls till the Cross, Jesus still taught that there was consciousness in the after-life & also places of rest & waiting and also of torment. And Jesus was giving a real view of life beyond the grave, or else by naming people & places, He was just a deceiver. Jesus never did that; all His parables were without specifics, just everyday situations to which there was a special meaning. Luke 16 is not a parable but a view of the after-life - and He should know.

"Hell is a finality.", you wrote. No, Hell & Heaven are only the beginning. Our lives on Earth are but a quick snapshot of time compared to an everlasting existence, whether in God's Presence or in torment. And finally, you stated a good question, "Also, by your reasoning, how exactly can a disembodied spirit be thirsty? How can a disembodied spirit feel pain? Impossible!" What Jesus was teaching here is that the departed spirit can still feel agony, just as there can be joy & celebration (e.g. Luke 15:10). The spirit of this 'rich man' wasn't thirsty for even a sip of water - he was in torment, & sought comfort, ANY comfort, to relieve him of his agony. Would any amount of water have helped him - I seriously doubt it, but our earthly comparison to this would be, "a drowning man will clutch at a straw" to try & save himself, & would fit the Luke 16 account. And the rich man even pleaded that his brothers would be warned now while still alive, lest they come into such an awful place. So the actual fundamental question remains is: since the Word of God is replete with accounts of the awfulness of a Christ-less eternity, are we going to take the warnings given in it as just a story/a parable/a fable or believe in Jesus & the apostles' words?

Shabbat Keeper:

Luke 16:31 And he said unto them, if they hear not MOSES and the PROPHETS, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose

from the dead.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto you, that after the way they (the church) call HERESY, so worship I the God of my fathers; believing ALL THINGS written in the LAW and the PROPHETS.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, they came many unto him in his lodging, to whom he expounded and testified the KINGDOM of GOD, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses,and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Most don't believe ALL THINGS written in MOSES and the PROPHETS.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written, this honoru hath all his saints.

Isaiah 26:9 ... for when thy judgements (administered by the saints) are in the earth (second resurrection), the world WILL LEARN righteousness.

Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world SHALL REMEMBER (when they are resurrected and judged by the saints) AND TURN (repent) unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

Isaiah 66:24 And they (the saints) shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me, for their (the saints) WORM shall not die; neither shall their (the saints') FIRE be quenched, and they (the saints) shall be and abhorring to all flesh.

Job 25:6 And much less man, that is a worm?and the son or man WHICH IS A WORM.

Psalms 22:6 .... But I am a worm .....

Mark 9:46 Where their WORM dieth not, nor is the FIRE quenched.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Matthew 13:34 ... and without a parable he spake he not unto them......

The whole word of God is Christ speaking.

Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a PARABLE: I will open my DARK SAYINGS of the harps (his people)

God Bless you

Chris,

Luke 16:19-31 was a common PARABLE of that time. Jesus was using it as a TEACHING lesson. And, by the way, this Lazarus in the story is not the same Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead.

In no way, was Jesus saying the dead suffer in a state of torment. Also, by your reasoning, how exactly can a disembodied spirit be thirsty? How can a disembodied spirit feel pain? Impossible!

Thank you Shabbat Keeper for coming back to me. I'll respond to your three recent posts to me with my one here.

Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.

But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.

So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.

Jema or Shabbat Keeper,

(Part 2):

In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?

In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?

In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?

John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?

Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?

I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.

Page 1.

Actually Shabbat Keeper, I wasn't intending to bring up the Rapture debate here, as it has been well discussed over the years. Rather, I was intending to give, maybe a rather flimsy example of a type of Gospel message, telling unbelievers that "when we turn to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins & receiving Christ into our life, then we will not face (physical) death, but just be raptured (caught up, as with Enoch/Elijah), to forever be with him". Here then would be something for the unbeliever to consider, because as sure as day turns into night, we all (believer & unbeliever alike) will face death - whether this thought leaves an 'icky' feeling in us depends on how we view death. So, rapture is not my issue here, but why is death any more of a punishment when we all have to die & knowing that death (of the body) means a complete eradication of any iota of life (in body, breath, mind, & senses). Often death is welcome, especially for the terminally ill or suffering, & whether or not one experiences a new pain-free joyful existence in the Lord's Presence or not, holds little attraction if there is no more consciousness in death or after it.

If death is the only punishment to the Christ-rejecter, then why do we all have to die? And if I might ask (verses that some don't care to address), why are there so many Scriptures to warn us that physical death is not the end (e.g. Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15); all these pointing to the reality of an eternal torment? As one who doesn't believe in such an eternity, I ask you (as I've done in the past with others), why are these Scriptures rejected so as to support an emotion-charged belief rather than a biblical Truth? Why do we reject or re-write these passages to suit us, when they're given direct from the Mouth of our Lord?

May the LORD give us wisdom in reading, studying and applying HIS word.

2 Timothy 2:15

James 2:

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.

Acts 15:

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Salvation is by faith in CHRIST alone.

GOD bless everyone!

1 Sa.20:20-21 "A Covenant"

vv.14-17

"And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul(v.17).

The covenant that Jonathan and David enter into concerns two houses, of Jonathan and David respectively, soul of each being knit as one. The Spirit has set them signifying the role of the soul of man which is a presence establishing truth written in his inward parts. There is no excuse the rich fool in the Parable did nothing to be rich towards God. Now Jonathan has precognition as to the role David was to play. He is also aware that his father had lost it all.'And theLordbe with thee, as he hath been with my father'.

In the min-max narrative mode every covenant a believer makes with Jesus Christ and accepting him as the Savior Lord conforms to the covenant of God made with the Son.(Ps.2:7-8). As discussed in the post titled School of Prophets a prophet is appointed by God and when he spoke of judgment it was valid for specific as well as for the Final judgment. The reason is simple: the eternal word is settled in heaven.(Ps.119:89) and it applies specifically to Jesus Christ.For thetestimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.(Re.19:10-NKJV) " For this reason prophets from Abraham ('for he is a prophet'-Ge.20:7)to John ( Luke 16:16) are like series regardless of time and place takes us to the Day of the Lord. "He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people./Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice(Ps.50:4-5)".

Jonathan is a stand-in for soul to which David signifies the Son. In eternity the body of Christ the church has only one Law and,- Zion is the soul of New Jerusalem; and Psalm of Asaph sings,'Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined(Ps.50:2; Is.2:3).