Discuss Luke 16 Page 9

James also look at Ephesians 1:4-13 good stuff.

James keep in mind we got born again because we believed Gods Word Romans 10:9+10 which is His will, we never willed or it wasn't mans plan we all were lost dead in trespasses and sin without God and without hope it wasn't done by any of our works this was all freely given by God through Jesus Christ also his will. Jeremiah 10:23 It is not within man to direct his own steps, thats pretty bad. Something to think about

Hi james look at Ephesians Chapter 1:4-12 as the word says he worketh all things after the council of His will, abraham his will, moses his will, obviously Jesus Christ his will, Paul in due time 2 Corinthians 1:1 Gods will. Last in 2 Timothy 2:4 it is gods will that all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. The last part is whats available that does not mean all will believe. Something to think about.

Brother James, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables, and without a PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT unto them:

All the bible is the WORDS OF JESUS; according to Jesus all the Bible is a PARABLE.

Jesus walked three and a half years with his disciples, and they never understood a word he said, until he took them aside and explained it to them.

We TODAY can't understand the words, until the HOLY SPIRIT takes us aside and explains the meaning to us.

You are BORN AGAIN by the word (truth) of God.

Can two walk together (in the word) and not be AGREED.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US (not me) make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Sometimes people spend their time trying to prove someone else is wrong (must be worried) not leading others to believe in being (born again - new creature), (repentance - turn), faith - hope - charity. Heaven is real, (Hell - lake of fire is real Luke 16:23) Eternity is never ending. Mark 9:44, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

In one of the responses to a question the person responding said LK 16 is a parable. Where did he get that information. In the text it does not say it is a parable

What is the Biblical doctrine of Predestination and Foreordination

In reply to Adam's, "... I personally do not believe people go to the Lord upon death, but sleep until judgment day, based on scriptures I've read....." I wish to point out that Jesus Himself told us what happens to ALL people upon death, Luke 16:19-31 AND ESPECIALY the rich man's request to send Lazarus to his father's house to preach the Gospel BUT Abraham rebukes and responds that they would not believe a simple beggar EVEN THOUGH he knew the truth and died in it. Bible students believe the rich man was not named because the people at that time knew him before his death. Jesus would not speak these things if they were not true. He wants us to be content and with HOPE (not a wish but rather a firm belief) in death. If the rich man was able to identify Lazarus across v26: "... a great gulf fixed.." then I believe Lazarus was also able to identify friends and family on BOTH SIDES of the "gulf", ALL waiting for the final judgement, Revelation 20:11, "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." AND Revelation 20:15, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." - this is the SECOND DEATH, it is eternal. For as long as we will be with Christ, so they will be with satan (his name is not worthy to qualify for the capitalization of the s). Amen.

Should have written: Luke 16:27-31.

A short answer: No.

When a belief is based on one's well researched & unchangeable 'facts', then any other proof given, will never be adequate & always rejected.

Remember Luke 16:27-30.

This isn't a comment, been receiving your verse a day for many years. Start my day off with it.But now I wake up and take the verse and put it on a app. Listening to the Holy Spirit on what to say. On line, at first I got this isn't the place for God's Word, but months later, people are saying thanks, amen, gotten JW, anti christ believer. But people our listening and growing in the word of God, Today's verse was James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Used submit to parents, Then I went to the prodigal son story, to the rich man and Lazarus, to putting on the whole armour of God. And lastly John 3:16. Other Bible verses Ephesians 4:27: Luke 8:11-12, I Peter 5:8, I John 3:8, Zechariah 1:3, Psalms 73: 28.

It's all about having someone come to the Lord Jesus Christ, and believing, trusting, and giving their life to him as their Savior. We both our God's servant, what a blessing!

Hebrews chapter 9

27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This is speaking of the Christian dead. (Wherever their bodies ceased to be alive. For the Christian, Christ follower; their flesh/bone remains on the earth, awaiting the moment of the Rapture.

Their spirits have already returned to God in heaven.

The non-Christian dead, remain where they died. Their bodies had been flesh and soul. Because they did not receive Jesus as their Lord; their spirits were not alive to God. They await the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked dead.

In the story of Lazarus the beggar, a rich man awaiting the judgment begged for water because of the flames, but Lazarus could not cross the gulf of distance.

The rich man (died wicked dead) begged again, that Lazarus would go witness Christ to his family members, yet alive. But Lazarus could not cross the gulf. People in hell...pray; they feel, they thirst; they can see.

They would tell you to rescue their still unsaved loved ones.

We can all witness now to our alive, but unsaved family members or close friends. It's up to us. We may be their only contact to hear that there is hope and rest in Jesus. Eternal life in heaven.

I grieved for my unsaved friends and relatives. We all do. Regret is hard to swallow.

Instead of becoming bitter at God and Jesus, remember the manner of death Jesus had to die, so we could be born again.

We need to think on this exchange between Lazarus and the rich man; and not stay silent any longer. Be at peace.

LUKE 16: 19-31

Mishael

Rev. Bob,

I just want to make a spelling correction. It is the Valley of Hinnom, not Henom. I was going off my memory of things I've learned when I gave a response about this valley and did not look up the correct spelling. Sorry about that!

Rev. Bob Blaine:

I agree with Jesse, he gave a great answer, it is also called Gehenna, a destination of the wicked. Jesus used Gehenna as an illustration of hell (the lake of fire), the fire that shall never be quenched. This is a parable; in the Hebrew tradition Abrahams bosom was a place where the righteous dead would go. Excluding the context; is the point of this parable to show when we die, we go to heaven or hell as many teach?

The Jewish people of the time of Jesus had been influenced by Babylonian and Hellenistic Greek cultures. The Pharisees were covetous, they flaunted their wealth and the seat of authority they had. Is this parable describing a holding place where the redeemed can live in peace and safety but can look and even talk across a vast chasm with the sufferings of the sinners in torment?

This parable also does not fit all of scripture, if we receive our reward as soon as we die, as said, we go to heaven or hell. In the text of Luke16 Jesus is talking to Pharisees and scribes and in context, Jesus covers stewardship, love of riches, adultery and no servant can serve two masters.

Many scriptures tell us when we will receive our reward and it is not when we die. Here are just a few and they all agree it is at the second coming of Jesus Christ. ( Matthew 16:27) ( 1 Corinthians 1:7-8) ( 1 Corinthians 15:22-23) ( 1 Thessalonians 2:19) ( Revelation 22:12).

I am sorry if this offends, I did not want to take away of Jesse's answer, but I feel some verses are taken out of context to teach untruths. If this parable is about how to escape hell and go to heaven when you die, then the lesson of the story is that eternal life can be earned by being poor. I'm sure many will disagree including you.

RLW

Rev Bob Blaine,

The rich man was the only one who had a funeral. There was no funeral for the poor beggar (Lazarus). What they used to do with the poor people in those days is take them over to the Valley of Henom which was right outside the city of Jerusalem. It was basically the garbage dump. People would throw their garbage over into the Valley of Henom which was constantly burning. And they would take the bodies of the poor people and just throw them over. There was no burial for the poor because they couldn't afford it. So the beggar died, was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom, and the rich man also died and was buried.

In Luke 16:22, when Lazurus died, he was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom! The rich man died also and was buried! The Bible says nothing about Lazurus body being buried, what happened to this beggars body?

I know his spirit and soul were in Paradise, but it puzzles me why no burial of his body is mentioned? Thank you

Hi Earl,

Thanks for joining in on the discussion. The basic truth I was stating is the fact that not everyone in the "universe" is a Christian. There is no Scriptural proof that EVERYONE is saved forevermore.

Everyone has an opportunity to receive Christ as their Savior. Unfortunately, many will choose not too.

As you so aptly put from Ephesians 1:10 He will gather all things "in Christ" "in Him." However God always explains what He means. In v. 11-13, "that we should be to the praise of His glory, who first TRUSTED in Christ. In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. In whom also AFTER that ye BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise Eph 4:30 tells us "whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

The story referenced in Luke 16: 19- 31 is not a parable. All parables given by our Lord Jesus Christ gave no names of the characters in the story. The story given in Luke 16:19-31 identifies one of the characters by name - Lazarus. This is a true story given by our Lord Jesus Christ. The basic theme here is that there is an actual heaven and hell. The rich man is in hell and not in the grave. They are not the same place.

It is hell because in v.24 the rich man said, "for I am tormented in this flame." There are no flames in the grave. He was asking for water to quench his thirst and cool him from the flames.

The rich man can not receive the LIVING WATER because the salvation of Christ must be received in this life time, never in the life here after.

The rich man knew this fact because of his request to Father Abraham to send someone to his brothers who were still alive. v. 27, 28.



Lazarus is now in Heaven; he was in Abraham's Bosum, before Christ resurrection.

Who are the saints to judge if everyone is saved?

Thanks for the time and discussion in His Name.

Brother David, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

You referenced:

2 Peter 1:20 This verse says no one verse in and of itself give the complete answer. Other verses have to bear witness to know TRUTH. No scriptures can contradict each other. ALL have to bear witness of each other in TRUTH.

Luke 16:22-24

You said this verse and others shows that even though God DESIRES all men to be save they want be saved.

THANK GOD, he doesn't leave his DESIRES up to man.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the FULLNESS OF TIMES (more ages than the one we are now in) that he might gather together IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven (first resurrection), and which are on earth (second resurrection), IN HIM.

Luke 16:22-24 Is a parable referencing the judgements of the two resurrections. Lazarus is in the first resurrection and is IN CHRIST. The rich man is in the GRAVE awaiting the second resurrection. When he is resurrected he will be begging Lazarus to give him the LIVING WATER that was given to him.

Know ye not THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD.

In reply to Glenn Gerun on Luke 5:11

With as much Love and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that is with in me; I ask that you look into Luke 16: 22- 24. Not all will be with Christ forevermore. 2 Peter 3:9 tells us of God's desire for all, but not all will be with Christ forevermore.

May the Lord bless you in your search of God's righteousness and His wisdom not our own. 2 Peter 1:20

Revelation 20:11-15 depicts the great white throne of Christ Jesus. Not all will be with Christ forevermore.

God gave us these passages, as well as the one's you gave, to help us all to become "Christians or born again believers" in order that we are able to be with Him forevermore.

God's desire is that we be with Him forevermore as you brought forth in your discussion. But only through Scripture, His way. 1 Corinthians 15: 1- 4; Romans 10: 9, 10; 1 John 5:10-13

Pray that this discussion helps everyone on this Forum. God bless you. Love in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hey Robert,

Great questions and they are not irrelevant. Asking is good, it is the motive that may not be good. Many questions asked by the scribes and Pharisees were to try and trap Jesus and not to learn the truth.

Those who died before Jesus' death on the cross, were saved because of their faith in the coming messiah. Romans 4: 3-5, Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 11: 1-3. We look back to the cross, those before us looked forward to the cross.

Those who believe in the Messiah, the Christ will be at the Bema Seat of Christ, 1 Corinthians 3:11-16, Acts 4:10-12

God has always had a way for people of all ages to be saved. Ps 19; Luke 16:27-31

Hebrews chapter 9

27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

This is speaking of the Christian dead. (Wherever their bodies ceased to be alive. For the Christian, Christ follower; their flesh/bone remains on the earth, awaiting the moment of the Rapture.

Their spirits have already returned to God in heaven.

The non-Christian dead, remain where they died. Their bodies had been flesh and soul. Because they did not receive Jesus as their Lord; their spirits were not alive to God. They await the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked dead.

In the story of Lazarus the beggar, a rich man awaiting the judgment begged for water because of the flames, but Lazarus could not cross the gulf of distance.

The rich man (died wicked dead) begged again, that Lazarus would go witness Christ to his family members, yet alive. But Lazarus could not cross the gulf. People in hell...pray; they feel, they thirst; they can see.

They would tell you to rescue their still unsaved loved ones.

We can all witness now to our alive, but unsaved family members or close friends. It's up to us. We may be their only contact to hear that there is hope and rest in Jesus. Eternal life in heaven.

I grieved for my unsaved friends and relatives. We all do. Regret is hard to swallow.

Instead of becoming bitter at God and Jesus, remember the manner of death Jesus had to die, so we could be born again. I wept when I watched "the Passion of Christ" movie. I covered my eyes too.

We need to think on this exchange between Lazarus and the rich man; and not stay silent any longer. TIME is shorter.

LUKE 16: 19-31

May God hold your heart in his Hand and give you peace. In Jesus Name. Mishael

Hi Norman,

I would just read what God says and ignore what man says. If you click on these or hover over them you'll see what each Bible verse says. It's clear to me what it says and means and is interesting how some others word hard to try to make it mean something else. 1 Peter 5:8

Matthew 7:14

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 11

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Matthew 12:31-32

Romans 14:12

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

People have freewill to choose good or evil:

Psalms 25:12

Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"

Psalm 119:30

Luke 16:13

Proverbs 3:31

Fear God:

Joshua 24:14

Psalms 25:12

Proverbs 1:29

Seek God:

Psalms 63:1

"I'm not a bad person". Everyone thinks they're good, including the wicked.

Romans 3:23

Mark 10:18

Hello Vince,

Thank you for your response. Yes, we both agree that we must obey God's commandments and remain faithful until death to inherit the blessings. Where we don't, perhaps, see eye to eye is what are the commandments of God today.

Do you keep God's commandments by getting circumcised as per Leviticus 12:3?

Do you keep God's commandments and dwell in booths for seven days every year as per Leviticus 23:42?

Do you make fringes on the border of your garments as per God's commandment at Numbers 15:38?

Do you go up to Jerusalem three times a year as per God's commandment at Exodus 23:17?

If you answer no, it seems to me that you don't, after all, obey God's commandments. Jesus and the Apostle John did not say, "If you obey the 10 commandments", but rather, "If you obey the commandments" (all the commandments). The question arises, though, which commandments?

I would suggest the commandments of the New Covenant (or Testament) found in the portion of our Bibles called the New Testament.

As for Matthew 5:17-18, please note one important point - it says till all be fulfilled. The purpose of the law was fulfilled when Christ offered up his perfect life in sacrifice. Then, it was done away with. Notice:

Galatians 3:23-25 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law (a schoolmaster), shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore THE LAW WAS our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But AFTER that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (the law).

That's why Jesus also said at the parallel account of Matthew 5:17-18 found at Luke 16:16.

Luke 16:16 "The LAW and the prophets WERE UNTIL JOHN: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

Then, Jesus set up the New Covenant.

Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

I welcome your further thoughts.

Good day, Vince.

Hello Richard,

Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I welcome your further comments.

Good day, Richard.

Hello Dan. Thank you for your comments.

A person cannot judge another man for not keeping the Sabbath in the Christian Church under the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, a person was required to judge such a person and stone them to death.

However, in the New Covenant given to the Christian Church, the Elders of a Church are indeed required to judge a man who is sinning such as by committing fornication.

At 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, there is a case of a man who is living in a state of sexual immorality. The Apostle Paul tells the Elders of that Church to judge and disfellowship that individual. Notice:

1 Corinthians 5: 12, 13 "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

That unrepentant, sinful person had to be judged and be thrown out of the Church. Yes, those who break the serious laws of the New Covenant, such as fornication - a serious sin - were judged and expelled.

However, no Christian could be judged for not keeping the Sabbath since the Sabbath was only given to Israel in the Old Covenant. The Apostle Paul and the other Apostles never commanded the Church to keep the Sabbath. If the Sabbath was that important, why would he not do so? Colossians 2:14-16 explains why. I invite you to read it.

As for Matthew 5:18, I would suggest you also read the other portion of that statement recorded at Luke 16:16:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

The Old Covenant was until John. Then, Jesus at his death with his blood, instituted the New Covenant or New Testament - laws found in the books of Romans to Revelation to the Christian Church - the so-called New Testament.

I would also invite you to read Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Luke 22:20.

Hello S Spencer.

Thank you for your insightful comments. I enjoyed reading them. Quite accurate.

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 fail to notice an important point, namely, Jesus said, "till all be fulfilled".

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

The Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ once he died and was resurrected. His death put to death the Mosaic Law as recorded at:

Colossians 2:14-16: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Romans 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Many who quote Matthew 5:17-19 often do not notice what Jesus said in the parallel account at:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

There, Jesus said further that the law, that is, the Mosaic Law, was UNTIL John. After John, it would be the New Covenant that was inaugurated by Jesus' shed blood. (See Luke 22:20.)

Thus, 1 John 5:2, 3 and all other verses in the New Testament (Romans to Revelation), referring to God's commandments, does not refer to the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments but only to the laws of the New Covenant (Romans to Revelation). In that New Testament Law, no instruction is ever made to keep the Sabbath Day or to circumcise all males, etc.

I share these thoughts with you and hope you enjoy them.

Brother Richard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Thank you for looking up the word "torments."

Matthew 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and TORMENTS, and those that were possessed with devils, and those that were lunatick, and those that had the palsy, AND HE HEALED THEM.

Luke 16:23 And in hell (grave) he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of TORMENT.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting, O grave (hell), were is thy victory?

If I am not mistaken; the same Greek word is used in both Luke 16:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:55. Therefore; Christ, at his resurrection, had victory over both; DEATH and the GRAVE (hades) and HELL (hades).

I BELIEVE that both verse mean the grave. Death and the grave are the wages of sin.

Since Judah was the only one that had five brothers and the Pharisees claimed to be of the house of Judah. Jesus was telling the Pharisees the first will be last and the last will be first. They WOULD NOT be part of the first resurrection but would have to wait until the second resurrection. They would be in TORMENT(not having drank from the living water); but after the second resurrection they would be healed as described in Matthew 4:24.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel SHALL BE SAVED.....

I would enjoy doing that for you Earl.

The Greek word for "torments" in Luke 16:23 is pronounced "basanos". If you type in "Strongs number G931" on google that will bring up links to this Greek word you can look over.

The definition can be of a "touchstone to test gold or silver". The rest of the definitions are "the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to divulge the truth, torture, torment, acute pains, of the pains of a disease, of those in hell after death".

It seems it is only used three times in the NT. Matthew 4:24, Luke 16:23, Luke 16:28.

God Bless.

Richard, I would like to ask a favour. I don't know how to look up a word in Greek. Would you please look up the Greek word "torments" used in Luke 16:23 and tell me how many other places it appears and how it is applied. Thank you.

Hi Earl,

Please forgive me to reply to this but I feel to. I understand you don't believe in Hell, or eternal damnation, though I do and to me it seems it was a very important thing Christ taught. To Repent from sins/iniquity and follow Him down the straight and narrow path that leads to life eternal. As He is the way.

The Lord taught not all are going down that path. Matthew 7:13-14. Here He states not everyone is to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven Matthew 7:21. As He stated there shall be some to go away to everlasting punishment but the righteous to life eternal Matthew 25:31-46. Numerous parables of the wicked being separated from the just in the end Matthew 13:37-50.

Though if Luke 16:19-31, is a parable what it states is not hard to see. The man who suffered and begged died and was carried by angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man who lived lavishly and did not help Lazarus died and was in Hades in torment. Even though he begged for a touch of water He did not receive it. Just being told how Lazarus who suffered was now comforted and he was now in torment. Even when he begged that a message be sent to his family that they repent so they would not end up as he did. He was told that if they hear not Moses and the prophets, they would neither be persuaded by one raising from the dead.

I also don't understand how you think the "fire" of God that tries/chastens us and our works it the same as "eternal fire, torment and punishment".

Could you please explain some of these things? As I see it very dangerous to say a place of eternal damnation does not exist.

Have you ever looked into people who have died, came back to life, and actually experienced a place that is worse than we could imagine? Usually calling it hell and has converted many people to believing in Christ. What would you say to them?

I would never think to tell anyone hell is not real. What if it is and you were wrong? Making people think it doesn't matter what they do?

Thanks God Bless.