Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
The fire that shall never be quenched means it is irreversible. Look at the remains of sodom and Gomorrah that can be seen today. There are outlines of the buildings in the area near the Dead Sea. Archeological proof of the wrath of God.
The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and its outlying towns have been a permanent destruction. This is an object lesson for us.
Mark 9:43
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"
Thank you Shabbat Keeper for coming back to me. I'll respond to your three recent posts to me with my one here.
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?
In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?
In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?
John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?
Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?
I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.
Actually Shabbat Keeper, I wasn't intending to bring up the Rapture debate here, as it has been well discussed over the years. Rather, I was intending to give, maybe a rather flimsy example of a type of Gospel message, telling unbelievers that "when we turn to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins & receiving Christ into our life, then we will not face (physical) death, but just be raptured (caught up, as with Enoch/Elijah), to forever be with him". Here then would be something for the unbeliever to consider, because as sure as day turns into night, we all (believer & unbeliever alike) will face death - whether this thought leaves an 'icky' feeling in us depends on how we view death. So, rapture is not my issue here, but why is death any more of a punishment when we all have to die & knowing that death (of the body) means a complete eradication of any iota of life (in body, breath, mind, & senses). Often death is welcome, especially for the terminally ill or suffering, & whether or not one experiences a new pain-free joyful existence in the Lord's Presence or not, holds little attraction if there is no more consciousness in death or after it.
If death is the only punishment to the Christ-rejecter, then why do we all have to die? And if I might ask (verses that some don't care to address), why are there so many Scriptures to warn us that physical death is not the end (e.g. Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15); all these pointing to the reality of an eternal torment? As one who doesn't believe in such an eternity, I ask you (as I've done in the past with others), why are these Scriptures rejected so as to support an emotion-charged belief rather than a biblical Truth? Why do we reject or re-write these passages to suit us, when they're given direct from the Mouth of our Lord?
Don't know where you get your teaching Elijiah serves as a double for the Son. Not bible. John the Baptist had the sane spirit as Elijiah which means he had the same words. Elijiah himself did not come down to John the Baptist, John had the same spirit as Elijiah. Elijiah visited Jesus and he will be coming back with Moses according to Revelation 11:6. Elijiah did not physically serve as a double for Jesus. That is like saying your earthly mother is serving as a double for your sister. It don't work that way. Samething in the bible. It is the spirit of words Elijiah that people had and not his person.
Rev 11:6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Malachi 4:5] Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
[6] And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Matthew 17:10] And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
[11] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[13] Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Mark 9:4] And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
[5] And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
[6] For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
[7] And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
1John 1:3 John was speaking on the other side of the baptizmal of the Christ, he knew in power of being dead unto sin,
& the power of the resurrection of Christ within Him, joining Him to Christ & the Father John 17:21-24 in a consummate intimate fellowship which he explains to His children "that your joy maybe full, which they had & are experiencing in a measure; as they continue in the working out of their salvation, steadfast & confident unto the end.
We ourselve experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them. His Presence increases in our lives, receving more of His Spirit by the hearing & obedience of Faith, which gives & increases us in what John say later "an understanding" 1John 5:20 & a part of this understanding is Philippians 4:13 which we have received.
Could non-believers read this epistles & become believers, of course; Mark 9:23 This is the heart of God Isa 49:6Acts 13:47
Thank you for your reply. I will first point out where the holy bible doesn't agree with you. As we all understand Christ required faith in order to Heal people Matthew 17:20 KJV, so in essence it was peoples Faith that allowed Christ to heal. Yet, Christ is merciful whereas the law is unmerciful, so Christ understanding that it isn't about "all or nothing" concerning matters of faith therefore Christ requires only a "mustard seed" of faith (i.e. something that will grow into great faith!) Therefore, Christ gives this example: "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." Mark 9:23 KJV And the man whom Christ was talking to admitted something very Profound: "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Mark 9:24 KJV Then Christ cast out the demon. You see Bennymkje, if what you say is true then any unbelief wouldn't allow Christ to heal someone, yet God is merciful because sometimes The Journey is just as important as The Destination. Remember Grace, for we are under Grace Today, while it is still Today!
I'm sorry Rainwalker, the belief in a literal Hell & a literal eternal torment for those who have rejected God & His Christ is not an idea from the dark ages nor from the Vatican - this is Scripture & plenty of them to support it. It's how one chooses to read, understand & accept the teachings from the Word that is in question - the Word does not change.
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! ( Luke 7:34).
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. ( Luke 15:31:32).
I have combined these verses to show the meaning of another verse ( Mark 2:19) which shows how with the bridegroom (Christ) present the Disciples couldn't fast but they would later on. Now of course that doesn't mean that they shouldn't fast such as what they lacked in Mark 9:29 for deliverance; what it DOES mean is that the joy of being present with the Lord when they were communing together resulted in enjoying meals together; like the Prodigal Son should have had with his father and restored brother.
Since we normally don't have "love feasts" together ( 1 Cor. 11:20-34) it may be a foreign concept but probably should be present in churches today or would often be a helpful concept. Nonetheless; for purposes here let us just refer to any communal meals we partake with our brothers and sisters in the Lord. IF; and I say that emphatically we are ever to imbibe in alcoholic beverages it should be to enjoy the celebration with family or trusted friends and of course praise and worship of God.
We also; of course have to abstain if we or anyone else present is known to have a problem with drinking.
The company we keep also in Christ's example was NOT swaying Him to sin but the Lord was clearly in charge of conversations.
I previously mentioned the lambasting Christ did to the Pharisees when they invited Him over for a meal; that happened more than once but never as clearly as in Luke 11; and Matthew 23. He certainly would be perceived as a most rude houseguest!!!!
We all like Paul have times of plenty and want; feasting and fasting more or less.
Matt 24:3 " the disciples asks, what shall be the sign of Thy coming & the end of the world?
Matt 24 Jesus explains to His disciples the signs of His coming
Jesus is speaking to His disciples who are with Him in present tense. Verily I say unto you!
Matt 24:4 & said unto them, let no man deceive you Matt 24:15 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation
Matt 24:23 then if any man say unto you, lo here is Christ. Matt 24:25 Behold I have told you Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you. Matt 24:33 when ye see all these things Matt 24:44 therefore be ye also ready
Matt 24:34,35
Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all this things be fulfilled, Heaven & earth shall pass away but My word shall not pass away, This was the generation 2000 yrs ago that shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.
Matt 16:28Mark 9:1 standing there with Him then, saw the Kingdom come in Power
Friends, Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming.
If we look at the time after Jesus was in the wilderness and began His public ministry; we see what begins as a few healings and public teachings in His hometown appear to rapidly grow with travel to surrounding areas where He cast out devils and did many healings. As late as Matthew 16:20 Jesus told to His Disciples not to tell anyone He was the Christ. The same instruction is in the Gospels of Mark as well as Luke. Jesus would speak Parables; eventually as the ONLY method of explaining these hidden truths to the general public. ( Matthew 13:13). This shows how deep the concept of Predestination is shown 2 verses later in Matthew 13:15 when He explains because of hard hearts they will not be given information needed to be saved. We must come to Christ on His terms; and at His drawing or prompting ( John 6:37). This concept also shows that Christ never was seeking acclamation and didn't want to be set up as King on this earth before the time either; without understanding that He had to be the suffering Savior first. When a man asked Jesus to help him with unbelief ( Mark 9:24) we need to keep in mind that when on earth He was able to raise men from the dead; today we need to trust that He has power over death; hell and sin but we don't have any certainty that He will use a person to perform a healing through the power of the Spirit today. Nonetheless we should ask the Lord in prayer all things which we will apart from those things which are just for our own selfish desires; He ever intercedes for us according to God's will ( Heb. 7:25). Finally; Jesus knew that mere facts wouldn't save anyone; as evidenced in the rich man's pleas from Hades in Luke 16:31; and all other instances Jesus was harassed for healing on a Sabbath Day-they couldn't ever deny the miracles but accused Him of working on the Sabbath and blasphemy declaring that He was the "I AM" ( John 8:58).
You state: Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say,
It is not as I say, it is Jesus in Matt 17:20 and John in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 and ultimately God, as the bible and all scripture if of God.
I'm accepting what God is telling us in these verses. These verses are tough Love, aren't meant to keep the sinful status quo, they are meant to wake us up! God does not want us to live the rest of our lives in sin.
You state: but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin,
It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin. You must see this; if we continue to tell each other and believe we can never stop sinning, we will in fact lead a lifetime in sin.
If we commit one sin or multiple sins - at the time we commit that sin - we are not abiding in God. Anytime we are sinning we are Not abiding in God - we are abiding in Satan. If we repent and ask for forgiveness God will forgive us. But we must be sincere and stop the habitual repeating of sin.
You state: never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given
Yes, I agree with you, that it is an awful state to live in sin, and these verses interpreted as given by God: are exactly meant to make us feel awful, hopefully to motivate us to really make changes, and work with Him and His Holy Spirit to rid ourselves of all sin. Is it better that we feel awful here on earth, if it promotes us to make the changes to accommodate Gods commands and receive His blessings ultimately winning the prize, and receiving eternal life in His Kingdom. Matt 18:22Mark 9:43
In summary: God tells us not to sin - throughout the bible. I do not see one place - that God tells us sin is acceptable to Him. If you do, please present the scripture.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Jesus tells us below - that we should fear God as He can cast us into hell.
Luke 12:4-5
4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Here a just a few of many verses stating that the unjust/unbeliever/unrepentant sinner will suffer for eternity in Hell.
Luke 16:22-25
Matt 25:41
Matt 3:12
Matt 25:46
Daniel 12:2
Mark 9:44-49
2 Thess 1:8-9
Rev 20:10
Rev 14:10-11
I know in the world we live in today, the popular belief among many preachers and Christians is that God is only good, kind, loving, and forgiving, and because of this - He will not throw anyone into Hell - to suffer for eternity. But that God will only leave us dead for eternity. This kind of teaching is false doctrine and does not conform to the bible, and Jesus own words. As Christian's we must always have a healthy fear of God.
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Hello John. I respond to your question here bearing in mind the details of your other request. I can think of a couple of Scriptures that could speak a little on this. The first one is in Mark 9:17-27 (the account of the man who had a son with an evil spirit & the man's helplessness before Jesus). In verses 23 & 24 ("Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief"). Here we see a father who seems to have tried everything to help his son & was desperate for Jesus' Help. And Jesus said, 'just have faith - just trust Me'. In great anguish, the father said he believed but that Jesus help him if he fell short of sufficient faith. Jesus doesn't give him extra faith - why? The father displayed faith in Jesus to do the healing - not in a doctor or another helper/disciple who might have previously failed him, but in this One called the Son of God Who had the Power to bring deliverance to his son. Jesus was not only this man's last hope, but his only hope & he trusted Him fully for complete healing.
The other passage is in 1 Corinthians 10:13: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." There were many temptations, trials, & sufferings that the Corinthian Christians faced, not only because they were Christians, but that they lived in a very pagan corrupt society. The apostle here is assuring them that their trials & temptations in life were not uncommon, but to His children, God will give them 'a way of escape'. It's true that God can remove the temptation or point us in a different direction to escape, but God's Spirit also gives us power to endure & bear up. Here too, we must exercise implicit faith for God to do as He Wills.
Your post is on point, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, Jesus and Paul used that saying many times. This is not to generate a back-and-forth; just thought you might want to look at it. I agree the transformation was awesome and like you said we have the law and the prophets and the Messiah in the middle a true picture of the fulfillment of scriptures by the Messiah, Jesus.
I have heard it said by many, Moses and Elijah were there and were alive and I have a hard time understanding that. Does it matter? This was before the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus is the firstfruits of those who slept, 1 Cor. 15:20. So, before Jesus defeated death and was resurrected no person who ever lived had not ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
Paul tells us in Acts 2:29,34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. How do we explain Enoch and Elijah being taken? There are some things about that like them being the two witnesses, but I do not know, by the scriptures, I have not found it. But if Moses, after he died, Deuteronomy 34:1-5, was taken up to heaven Jesus would not be the firstfruits.
We see this in Matt. 17:9Mark 9:9 Jesus said it was a vision and do not tell anyone what they saw and in Luke 9:32 they were heavy with sleep and John did not write about it. All three covered the cloud, (the Shekinah Glory), and what God said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." Peter also repeats it in 2 Peter 1:15-18. Was it a vision? Was it to reinforce their faith?
Like I said, this is not to start a ruckus, I just cannot get an understanding of Moses and Elijah alive and being there when John wrote this after Jesus had ascended, because he said Jesus was in heaven; only Jesus who came down is the only one who has ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. ( Galatians 3:26)
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. ( Mark 11:22)
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. ( Mark 9:23)
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ( Matthew 19:26)
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. ( Hebrews 13:5)
I hope and pray these scriptures help your faith walk. It's not how we feel its according to our faith (believing and accepting God's word as it is written) and as we believe and accept God's plan of salvation by faith (not by works, Jesus paid that precious price for our salvation), then we can do the works of Christ Jesus and build up our most holy faith by believing, prayer, studying scripture, etc.
I used search words of faith, believe, and possible to find and share some scriptures. You might find searching the word promise to be encouraging, to read and believe all the promises that are for us in God's word. I am happy to hear about your desire to continue your walk with the Lord, stay encouraged and keep the faith in all areas of your life. Nothing is too hard for God, we can begin again. God never stopped loving and forgiving us, just accept it by faith and walk in it.
If I may offer another perspective on this, we see Jesus saying this also in Matthew 16:28, and Mark 9:1. If you notice, after all three presentations, it immediately goes into the transfiguration of Christ. Matthew ends at Verse 28, but as soon as you go to Matthew 17:1, it talks about the transfiguration. It's the same thing right after Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27.
When Jesus said, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God," I believe He was speaking of Peter, James, and John. They were the ones who Jesus took with Him up into the mountain to pray. They were the ones that were there to witness the transfiguration of Jesus.
Luke 9:29 tells us that as he was praying, the fashion (literally outward appearance) of his countenance (or face), was altered. In the Greek text, it just uses the word HETEROS. His face became different. But even with the Greek word HETEROS, meaning different in kind than He was before, it wasn't a physical change. It was a physical change into a spiritual change. Matthew uses the word metamorphosis, meaning completely transformed. In the Greek text, it just uses the word HETEROS. His face became different.
Now in Matthew Chapter 16, it is unfortunate that Verse 28 was placed in Chapter 16 because Verse 28 goes with Verse 1. Sometimes bible commentaries will stop at the end of Chapter 16 and do a five-page presentation of what Verse 28 means. All they had to do is say go to Verse 1, that there are some standing here that will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming.
Therefore, I reiterate the three rules of Hermeneutics: a literal interpretation (unless a non-literal one is clearly called for); an historical, grammatical & contextual usage to understand the environment & language of that writing; & of course, using Scripture in other places within the Bible to help interpret the portion we're reading. Outside of this defined & confined meaning of 'biblical hermeneutics', we might open ourselves to erroneous understanding & teaching. If we believe that the Holy Spirit assists us in our understanding, then He would not disregard proper interpretative conventions, rather make that Scripture meaningful to us as well as applicable to our lives.
Then going back to our 'Lake of Fire' example, 'Fire' may be the common word that is seen, in say in 1 Kings 18:19-40 & in Revelation 20:14,15, but the whole context is very different between the two. Where 'fire' consumed the sacrifice on the altar in the one, & then in the other, 'fire' doesn't consume, but is eternal & tormenting (even as Jesus spoke of this in Mark 9:43-48). If we don't apply these rules, we can then make the Revelation account anything we want it to mean (or support our belief); such as being a fire of purification (purgatory), or only a spiritual (not actual) fire to demonstrate God's hatred of sin, but the soul be saved. If any of these (& other) interpretations are used, we in the first instance violate the proper understanding of the given Word & secondly, apply our own principles which ultimately makes the Word meaningless & worthless. The Holy Word is to be rigorously guarded from anything that would lead the reader to distraction & departure of the Truth.
Indeed Elijah becomes Elias in NT, like Isaiah becomes Esias. Since the New Testament was written for greek speaking people the authors of the 4 gospels used the greek forms of those hebrew names.
So at a time the apostles asked Jesus ( Mark 9:11-13), "And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?" Jesus answered to them , "And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him."
Jesus is refering to the prophesy written in Malachi 4:5-6, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
And He tells His disciples that Elias has indeed come, he was actually John the Baptist. Jesus' words "as it is written of him" are refering to Elias coming before Jesus and restoring things for Him, not to what happened to him.
I thought I would start out with when we don't fast. That would be for someone that has blood sugar issues (for lengthier fasts); or when we need physical strength for work or mental acumen to perform tasks.
I have stated the verse where Jesus casts out the demon where prayer and fasting were needed for that type of demon; thus the disciples couldn't cast it out ( Mark 9:29). It appears that Jesus expected the disciples to seek the Father through prayer as to the challenges to come; so that it could be revealed to them when fasting was needed. Christ of course had the power to do all things irregardless; but in His dependence on the Spirit so that He could "suffer all things as we did but without sin" ( Heb. 4:15) meant that He trusted in the Spirit for all of His miracles and actions.
Obviously; prayer is something we all should do constantly ( 1 Thess. 5:17). We are also to meditate day and night ( Joshua 1:8). We see how Christ was up all night in prayer before He picked His first group of Disciples; and how at the end the Disciples were to fight sleep due to sorrow ad exhaustion and pray to avoid temptation.
There is no set command for fasting; it appears to have been something the fear of God instigated for instance by the pagan king in Nineveh ( Jonah 3:7). Esther had a 3 day fast before appealing to the King to save her people and reveal her origin in chapter 4; verse 16. The King of Babylon fasted for a night when he was disturbed about Daniel being placed in the lion's den in Daniel 6. Churches these days probably do this much less often than should be done; certainly a short fast would be proper more often than long ones. There are health benefits as well; obviously one without water should be limited. It would seem that God intervened before 40 days without water in the case of Nineveh or it was a miracle they survived that long.
We are to be filled with the Spirit as we are emptied of ourselves.
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
God bless you.
The fire that shall never be quenched means it is irreversible. Look at the remains of sodom and Gomorrah that can be seen today. There are outlines of the buildings in the area near the Dead Sea. Archeological proof of the wrath of God.
The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and its outlying towns have been a permanent destruction. This is an object lesson for us.
Mark 9:43
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
(Part 2):
In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?
In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?
In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?
John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?
Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?
I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.
Actually Shabbat Keeper, I wasn't intending to bring up the Rapture debate here, as it has been well discussed over the years. Rather, I was intending to give, maybe a rather flimsy example of a type of Gospel message, telling unbelievers that "when we turn to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins & receiving Christ into our life, then we will not face (physical) death, but just be raptured (caught up, as with Enoch/Elijah), to forever be with him". Here then would be something for the unbeliever to consider, because as sure as day turns into night, we all (believer & unbeliever alike) will face death - whether this thought leaves an 'icky' feeling in us depends on how we view death. So, rapture is not my issue here, but why is death any more of a punishment when we all have to die & knowing that death (of the body) means a complete eradication of any iota of life (in body, breath, mind, & senses). Often death is welcome, especially for the terminally ill or suffering, & whether or not one experiences a new pain-free joyful existence in the Lord's Presence or not, holds little attraction if there is no more consciousness in death or after it.
If death is the only punishment to the Christ-rejecter, then why do we all have to die? And if I might ask (verses that some don't care to address), why are there so many Scriptures to warn us that physical death is not the end (e.g. Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15); all these pointing to the reality of an eternal torment? As one who doesn't believe in such an eternity, I ask you (as I've done in the past with others), why are these Scriptures rejected so as to support an emotion-charged belief rather than a biblical Truth? Why do we reject or re-write these passages to suit us, when they're given direct from the Mouth of our Lord?
Rev 11:6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Malachi 4:5] Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
[6] And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Matthew 17:10] And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
[11] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[13] Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Mark 9:4] And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
[5] And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
[6] For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
[7] And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
From Adam till the present, what is the SIN that separates man from God.
UNBELIEF
Adam didn't believe God's word.
National Israel didn't believe God's word.
Promised Israel today doesn't believe God's Word.
Paul was struggling with this same sin, UNBELIEF.
Romans 11:32 For God HATH concluded THEM ALL (including Paul) in UNBELIEF, that he may have MERCY ON ALL.
Proverbs 16:6 By MERCY and TRUTH iniquity (unbelief) is PURGED.
1 Timothy 1:13 Who (Paul) was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in UNBELIEF.
Romans 11:30 For YE in times past HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, yet have now obtained mercy because of their UNBELIEF.
Mark 9:24 .... Lord ....help thou my UNBELIEF .......
Matthew 17:20 ...because of your UNBELIEF .....
Every SIN is CAUSED by UNBELIEF.
God Bless YOU!
1John 1:3 John was speaking on the other side of the baptizmal of the Christ, he knew in power of being dead unto sin,
& the power of the resurrection of Christ within Him, joining Him to Christ & the Father John 17:21-24 in a consummate intimate fellowship which he explains to His children "that your joy maybe full, which they had & are experiencing in a measure; as they continue in the working out of their salvation, steadfast & confident unto the end.
We ourselve experience an increase in joy of this fellowship as He takes away our sin, & we don't return to them. His Presence increases in our lives, receving more of His Spirit by the hearing & obedience of Faith, which gives & increases us in what John say later "an understanding" 1John 5:20 & a part of this understanding is Philippians 4:13 which we have received.
Could non-believers read this epistles & become believers, of course; Mark 9:23 This is the heart of God Isa 49:6 Acts 13:47
in love & truth
Grace be to you
Thank you for your reply. I will first point out where the holy bible doesn't agree with you. As we all understand Christ required faith in order to Heal people Matthew 17:20 KJV, so in essence it was peoples Faith that allowed Christ to heal. Yet, Christ is merciful whereas the law is unmerciful, so Christ understanding that it isn't about "all or nothing" concerning matters of faith therefore Christ requires only a "mustard seed" of faith (i.e. something that will grow into great faith!) Therefore, Christ gives this example: "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." Mark 9:23 KJV And the man whom Christ was talking to admitted something very Profound: "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Mark 9:24 KJV Then Christ cast out the demon. You see Bennymkje, if what you say is true then any unbelief wouldn't allow Christ to heal someone, yet God is merciful because sometimes The Journey is just as important as The Destination. Remember Grace, for we are under Grace Today, while it is still Today!
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! ( Luke 7:34).
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. ( Luke 15:31:32).
I have combined these verses to show the meaning of another verse ( Mark 2:19) which shows how with the bridegroom (Christ) present the Disciples couldn't fast but they would later on. Now of course that doesn't mean that they shouldn't fast such as what they lacked in Mark 9:29 for deliverance; what it DOES mean is that the joy of being present with the Lord when they were communing together resulted in enjoying meals together; like the Prodigal Son should have had with his father and restored brother.
Since we normally don't have "love feasts" together ( 1 Cor. 11:20-34) it may be a foreign concept but probably should be present in churches today or would often be a helpful concept. Nonetheless; for purposes here let us just refer to any communal meals we partake with our brothers and sisters in the Lord. IF; and I say that emphatically we are ever to imbibe in alcoholic beverages it should be to enjoy the celebration with family or trusted friends and of course praise and worship of God.
We also; of course have to abstain if we or anyone else present is known to have a problem with drinking.
The company we keep also in Christ's example was NOT swaying Him to sin but the Lord was clearly in charge of conversations.
I previously mentioned the lambasting Christ did to the Pharisees when they invited Him over for a meal; that happened more than once but never as clearly as in Luke 11; and Matthew 23. He certainly would be perceived as a most rude houseguest!!!!
We all like Paul have times of plenty and want; feasting and fasting more or less.
Matt 24:3 " the disciples asks, what shall be the sign of Thy coming & the end of the world?
Matt 24 Jesus explains to His disciples the signs of His coming
Jesus is speaking to His disciples who are with Him in present tense. Verily I say unto you!
Matt 24:4 & said unto them, let no man deceive you Matt 24:15 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation
Matt 24:23 then if any man say unto you, lo here is Christ. Matt 24:25 Behold I have told you Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you. Matt 24:33 when ye see all these things Matt 24:44 therefore be ye also ready
Matt 24:34,35
Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all this things be fulfilled, Heaven & earth shall pass away but My word shall not pass away, This was the generation 2000 yrs ago that shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.
Matt 16:28 Mark 9:1 standing there with Him then, saw the Kingdom come in Power
Friends, Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming.
If we look at the time after Jesus was in the wilderness and began His public ministry; we see what begins as a few healings and public teachings in His hometown appear to rapidly grow with travel to surrounding areas where He cast out devils and did many healings. As late as Matthew 16:20 Jesus told to His Disciples not to tell anyone He was the Christ. The same instruction is in the Gospels of Mark as well as Luke. Jesus would speak Parables; eventually as the ONLY method of explaining these hidden truths to the general public. ( Matthew 13:13). This shows how deep the concept of Predestination is shown 2 verses later in Matthew 13:15 when He explains because of hard hearts they will not be given information needed to be saved. We must come to Christ on His terms; and at His drawing or prompting ( John 6:37). This concept also shows that Christ never was seeking acclamation and didn't want to be set up as King on this earth before the time either; without understanding that He had to be the suffering Savior first. When a man asked Jesus to help him with unbelief ( Mark 9:24) we need to keep in mind that when on earth He was able to raise men from the dead; today we need to trust that He has power over death; hell and sin but we don't have any certainty that He will use a person to perform a healing through the power of the Spirit today. Nonetheless we should ask the Lord in prayer all things which we will apart from those things which are just for our own selfish desires; He ever intercedes for us according to God's will ( Heb. 7:25). Finally; Jesus knew that mere facts wouldn't save anyone; as evidenced in the rich man's pleas from Hades in Luke 16:31; and all other instances Jesus was harassed for healing on a Sabbath Day-they couldn't ever deny the miracles but accused Him of working on the Sabbath and blasphemy declaring that He was the "I AM" ( John 8:58).
You state: Maybe "we can get to a state of sinlessness" as you say,
It is not as I say, it is Jesus in Matt 17:20 and John in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 and ultimately God, as the bible and all scripture if of God.
I'm accepting what God is telling us in these verses. These verses are tough Love, aren't meant to keep the sinful status quo, they are meant to wake us up! God does not want us to live the rest of our lives in sin.
You state: but if we don't in our lifetime, then we not only never had Christ abiding in us, but we actually belong to the devil, simply because we have committed even that one sin,
It is not just about "one sin". It's about a lifetime of continual sin. You must see this; if we continue to tell each other and believe we can never stop sinning, we will in fact lead a lifetime in sin.
If we commit one sin or multiple sins - at the time we commit that sin - we are not abiding in God. Anytime we are sinning we are Not abiding in God - we are abiding in Satan. If we repent and ask for forgiveness God will forgive us. But we must be sincere and stop the habitual repeating of sin.
You state: never finding freedom from it or any other sin. That would be an awful state to live in, if those verses are read & interpreted as given
Yes, I agree with you, that it is an awful state to live in sin, and these verses interpreted as given by God: are exactly meant to make us feel awful, hopefully to motivate us to really make changes, and work with Him and His Holy Spirit to rid ourselves of all sin. Is it better that we feel awful here on earth, if it promotes us to make the changes to accommodate Gods commands and receive His blessings ultimately winning the prize, and receiving eternal life in His Kingdom. Matt 18:22 Mark 9:43
In summary: God tells us not to sin - throughout the bible. I do not see one place - that God tells us sin is acceptable to Him. If you do, please present the scripture.
GBU
You
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Jesus tells us below - that we should fear God as He can cast us into hell.
Luke 12:4-5
4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Here a just a few of many verses stating that the unjust/unbeliever/unrepentant sinner will suffer for eternity in Hell.
Luke 16:22-25
Matt 25:41
Matt 3:12
Matt 25:46
Daniel 12:2
Mark 9:44-49
2 Thess 1:8-9
Rev 20:10
Rev 14:10-11
I know in the world we live in today, the popular belief among many preachers and Christians is that God is only good, kind, loving, and forgiving, and because of this - He will not throw anyone into Hell - to suffer for eternity. But that God will only leave us dead for eternity. This kind of teaching is false doctrine and does not conform to the bible, and Jesus own words. As Christian's we must always have a healthy fear of God.
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
God tells us Hell is real!
Read and Believe!
The other passage is in 1 Corinthians 10:13: "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." There were many temptations, trials, & sufferings that the Corinthian Christians faced, not only because they were Christians, but that they lived in a very pagan corrupt society. The apostle here is assuring them that their trials & temptations in life were not uncommon, but to His children, God will give them 'a way of escape'. It's true that God can remove the temptation or point us in a different direction to escape, but God's Spirit also gives us power to endure & bear up. Here too, we must exercise implicit faith for God to do as He Wills.
Your post is on point, fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, Jesus and Paul used that saying many times. This is not to generate a back-and-forth; just thought you might want to look at it. I agree the transformation was awesome and like you said we have the law and the prophets and the Messiah in the middle a true picture of the fulfillment of scriptures by the Messiah, Jesus.
I have heard it said by many, Moses and Elijah were there and were alive and I have a hard time understanding that. Does it matter? This was before the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus is the firstfruits of those who slept, 1 Cor. 15:20. So, before Jesus defeated death and was resurrected no person who ever lived had not ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
Paul tells us in Acts 2:29,34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. How do we explain Enoch and Elijah being taken? There are some things about that like them being the two witnesses, but I do not know, by the scriptures, I have not found it. But if Moses, after he died, Deuteronomy 34:1-5, was taken up to heaven Jesus would not be the firstfruits.
We see this in Matt. 17:9 Mark 9:9 Jesus said it was a vision and do not tell anyone what they saw and in Luke 9:32 they were heavy with sleep and John did not write about it. All three covered the cloud, (the Shekinah Glory), and what God said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." Peter also repeats it in 2 Peter 1:15-18. Was it a vision? Was it to reinforce their faith?
Like I said, this is not to start a ruckus, I just cannot get an understanding of Moses and Elijah alive and being there when John wrote this after Jesus had ascended, because he said Jesus was in heaven; only Jesus who came down is the only one who has ascended to heaven, John 3:13.
In love thank you for what you do.
God bless,
RLW
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. ( Mark 11:22)
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. ( Mark 9:23)
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ( Matthew 19:26)
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. ( Hebrews 13:5)
I hope and pray these scriptures help your faith walk. It's not how we feel its according to our faith (believing and accepting God's word as it is written) and as we believe and accept God's plan of salvation by faith (not by works, Jesus paid that precious price for our salvation), then we can do the works of Christ Jesus and build up our most holy faith by believing, prayer, studying scripture, etc.
I used search words of faith, believe, and possible to find and share some scriptures. You might find searching the word promise to be encouraging, to read and believe all the promises that are for us in God's word. I am happy to hear about your desire to continue your walk with the Lord, stay encouraged and keep the faith in all areas of your life. Nothing is too hard for God, we can begin again. God never stopped loving and forgiving us, just accept it by faith and walk in it.
Lisalou,
If I may offer another perspective on this, we see Jesus saying this also in Matthew 16:28, and Mark 9:1. If you notice, after all three presentations, it immediately goes into the transfiguration of Christ. Matthew ends at Verse 28, but as soon as you go to Matthew 17:1, it talks about the transfiguration. It's the same thing right after Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27.
When Jesus said, "there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God," I believe He was speaking of Peter, James, and John. They were the ones who Jesus took with Him up into the mountain to pray. They were the ones that were there to witness the transfiguration of Jesus.
Luke 9:29 tells us that as he was praying, the fashion (literally outward appearance) of his countenance (or face), was altered. In the Greek text, it just uses the word HETEROS. His face became different. But even with the Greek word HETEROS, meaning different in kind than He was before, it wasn't a physical change. It was a physical change into a spiritual change. Matthew uses the word metamorphosis, meaning completely transformed. In the Greek text, it just uses the word HETEROS. His face became different.
Now in Matthew Chapter 16, it is unfortunate that Verse 28 was placed in Chapter 16 because Verse 28 goes with Verse 1. Sometimes bible commentaries will stop at the end of Chapter 16 and do a five-page presentation of what Verse 28 means. All they had to do is say go to Verse 1, that there are some standing here that will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming.
Therefore, I reiterate the three rules of Hermeneutics: a literal interpretation (unless a non-literal one is clearly called for); an historical, grammatical & contextual usage to understand the environment & language of that writing; & of course, using Scripture in other places within the Bible to help interpret the portion we're reading. Outside of this defined & confined meaning of 'biblical hermeneutics', we might open ourselves to erroneous understanding & teaching. If we believe that the Holy Spirit assists us in our understanding, then He would not disregard proper interpretative conventions, rather make that Scripture meaningful to us as well as applicable to our lives.
Then going back to our 'Lake of Fire' example, 'Fire' may be the common word that is seen, in say in 1 Kings 18:19-40 & in Revelation 20:14,15, but the whole context is very different between the two. Where 'fire' consumed the sacrifice on the altar in the one, & then in the other, 'fire' doesn't consume, but is eternal & tormenting (even as Jesus spoke of this in Mark 9:43-48). If we don't apply these rules, we can then make the Revelation account anything we want it to mean (or support our belief); such as being a fire of purification (purgatory), or only a spiritual (not actual) fire to demonstrate God's hatred of sin, but the soul be saved. If any of these (& other) interpretations are used, we in the first instance violate the proper understanding of the given Word & secondly, apply our own principles which ultimately makes the Word meaningless & worthless. The Holy Word is to be rigorously guarded from anything that would lead the reader to distraction & departure of the Truth.
It doesn't say we have to "read, in the name of" but when we pray, receive a child, or when people are being baptized,
Jesus name is the principal thing. Matthew 18:5,20, Mark 9:37,39,41,48, Mark 16:15-18, John 14:13,14,26, John 15, John 16:23-28,
Hopefully this is helpful
Hopefully this is also helpful
Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:1-29,
Proverbs 14:5,25, John 8,
Revelation 12:19,
Hopefully these are helpful
Jesus also addressess fasting: Matthew 6:16-18, Luke 18:7-14, Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:14-29,
Hopefully this is helpful
I had to pray many times as I was reading & trying to understand the Bible when I was serious about turning my life to GOD.
If there are certain situations you need help with, in life, you can even use this site to research scripture, questions & answers, or ask questions.
I've found any time I've questioned scripture seemingly contradiction, after deeper reading, prayer & study I find it doesn't.
You can search words, names, phrases.
Hopefully this is helpful
Matthew 6,
Hopefully these are also helpful
Indeed Elijah becomes Elias in NT, like Isaiah becomes Esias. Since the New Testament was written for greek speaking people the authors of the 4 gospels used the greek forms of those hebrew names.
So at a time the apostles asked Jesus ( Mark 9:11-13), "And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?" Jesus answered to them , "And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him."
Jesus is refering to the prophesy written in Malachi 4:5-6, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
And He tells His disciples that Elias has indeed come, he was actually John the Baptist. Jesus' words "as it is written of him" are refering to Elias coming before Jesus and restoring things for Him, not to what happened to him.
I have stated the verse where Jesus casts out the demon where prayer and fasting were needed for that type of demon; thus the disciples couldn't cast it out ( Mark 9:29). It appears that Jesus expected the disciples to seek the Father through prayer as to the challenges to come; so that it could be revealed to them when fasting was needed. Christ of course had the power to do all things irregardless; but in His dependence on the Spirit so that He could "suffer all things as we did but without sin" ( Heb. 4:15) meant that He trusted in the Spirit for all of His miracles and actions.
Obviously; prayer is something we all should do constantly ( 1 Thess. 5:17). We are also to meditate day and night ( Joshua 1:8). We see how Christ was up all night in prayer before He picked His first group of Disciples; and how at the end the Disciples were to fight sleep due to sorrow ad exhaustion and pray to avoid temptation.
There is no set command for fasting; it appears to have been something the fear of God instigated for instance by the pagan king in Nineveh ( Jonah 3:7). Esther had a 3 day fast before appealing to the King to save her people and reveal her origin in chapter 4; verse 16. The King of Babylon fasted for a night when he was disturbed about Daniel being placed in the lion's den in Daniel 6. Churches these days probably do this much less often than should be done; certainly a short fast would be proper more often than long ones. There are health benefits as well; obviously one without water should be limited. It would seem that God intervened before 40 days without water in the case of Nineveh or it was a miracle they survived that long.
We are to be filled with the Spirit as we are emptied of ourselves.
Matthew 18:6-20,
Mark 11:22,23,24, Mark 16:15-18,
James 1:5, Colossians 3,
First you need to believe, Jesus is who He is, The Son of GOD, John 3:16-21, Mark 9:31,