Discuss Matthew 27 Page 7

Hello my brothers and sisters,

I just feel to write a post explaining my position of my "once saved always saved" feelings. As I will put feelings in two ways in that I am not here to take either side of this "belief" that can be taken out of context in many ways today.

First is in the eyes of God and our Lord. There is no speculation of who shall be saved to the Lord. As stated He knows His sheep. He knows the hearts of each and every single person. Knowing us better than we know ourselves and who are His. Knowing the end from the beginning.

In the eyes of man this may become a confusing issue, for some, and is very personal one person to another. Some of us in the Lord have been Blessed to have experienced things in our lives that prove how real Jesus Christ and God our Father are. I have been rebuked by a fellow believer by saying "God chose me". He retorted by stating "you were not chosen but called". I know in my heart God chose me to be His child. Why? Only God knows as I don't see myself better than anyone else.

As another point I feel is how some people may ask "does Jesus Christ love me no matter what"? As I replied to this question in that I believe the more important question I think people should be asking themselves is "do I really love the Lord"? Even as the mouth is a powerful fire. Just as in this world talk can be cheap. As I'm sure most of us have experienced how a person may say one thing like "I love you" but do they actually show that love from the heart. Or has it just become a phrase?

We who have been Blessed by the Lord to have been chosen by Him and know this. As me have a fire burning in my heart for the Lord. It is beyond words. Even though I know I am His I still humble myself every night, on my knees, in prayer begging for His great mercy and forgiveness to anything that I may have done that day that was not in His Will. Or anything that may have disappointed Him. Not even knowing If I did anything wrong.. God is so perfect..

Sir, thank you very much for the explanation. Praise God

Do you believe that a person who believes in Jesus & Jehovah will go to heaven when they die? How do you explain Psalms 37?

AARON, this is the second harvest, the Feast of Weeks what is called Pentecost. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is from the 15th -21st of Nisan no leavened bread is allowed in the houses or in Jerusalem during that time, these seven days where the only days leaven was not allowed. Passover day the 14th was a preparation day for this feast to clear all leaven out of the houses. The Head of the house would inspect the house using a brush to check even the cracks in the floor. The Feast of First Fruits was the day after the Sabbath following Passover day.

Jesus was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits the first day of the week. When Jesus first ascended to heaven, he presented himself and was accepted by God the First Fruits of them that slept. This explains why Mary Magdalene could not touch Jesus before he ascended because no one could partake of him before God accepted him.

The second harvest was fifty days after the Feast of Fruits the day Jesus resurrected. They counted every day until the day after seven sabbaths which is fifty days the meaning of Pentecost. The Festival celebrates the start of the wheat harvest by bringing the first fruits of the harvest as an oblation to the Lord along with the sacrifices prescribed in the Law.

The feasts were a shadow of things to come, Jesus fulfilled the Passover with His life and blood on the cross, the Feast of Unleavened Bread with His perfect sinless life, the Feast of First Fruits by His resurrection the first harvest which gives us the only hope of eternal life with Him, the Feast of Weeks with the baptism of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost the first fruits of the Spirit. There are three feasts left.

I hope this helps and was not too much, God bless, Ron

In Leviticus 23:17, why God says to bring 2 loaves of bread with LEAVEN? for the First fruits offering?Before it was unleavened bread ? So no leaven to be present to God.

Prentice,

I can find nothing in the Bible concerning the "people who run the streets all night long." What you do at "night" is what concerns God, not what time of day it is. Many wonderful things happened during the night according to the Bible. But, we all know form either experience or observation, that people use the night to hide their sins. The question you should be asking is; "what sins am I hiding in the darkness?"

Indeed it is Earl, and we have entered into His rest as we see in Hebrews 4:10, "For he that is entered into His rest, has also ceased from his own works, just as God did from His.

So the writer of Hebrews is going back to creation. He's saying if you surrender to Christ, you will be doing just what God did. You will cease from your own works, your own efforts, at your own salvation. You will cease from your own works, and you will enter into God's rest.

Dear Bro Barney,

The verses you read refer to genuine Christians who are following (and obeying) Christ.

If you put those verses in context with all the other verses like John 14:15, then you realize obeying is pretty important. Christianity is about following Christ, not a get out of hell free card or an unlimited license to sin. It assumes someone is a genuine Christian who avoids sin and obeys God. Obedience doesn't mean there's no grace either. We're still saved by grace, but we're genuinely trying to avoid sin. Whereas someone deliberately sinning and claiming they're saved and can do whatever they want is in danger. Many will cry out, Lord, Lord, and Jesus will not know them, which includes faux Christians.

Luke 12:10 this verse alone debunks the once saved always saved belief, because it clearly says this sin will not be forgiven. Also, no one is 'saved' until they are judged after this life. Those who genuinely follow Jesus can have assurance in salvation, but the Word also says to fear God. Luke 12:4.

I have a feeling these verses won't change anyone's mind once you've made up your mind what you want to believe, but perhaps at least pray about it before suggesting to others that they're saved even if they commit horrific sins and live in the Word and turn their back on Jesus to follow the devil as some Christians sometimes do. Hitler grew up attending church and if you believe OSAS maybe some think Hitler and everyone will be in heaven too along with all other mass murderers. But I don't believe that, I believe satan is trying to convince people they don't need to obey God anymore. God bless.

Sherry, these verses and many more confirm that salvation, once given, is eternal.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Do not get standing and relationship confused. Once a person is truly saved, they are made a child of God. This is your standing and you cannot lose it. However, if a person continues in their sin, they can lose their relationship with God. Just like a rebellious child damages their relationship with their parents.

As for repentance, this is only a recognition of a persons sins and a persons decision to turn away from it. God honors that decision even if we are unable to. Salvation is totally the work of God. He draws us to Jesus who paid the price and if we accept the price, we become His, "is passed from death unto life."

Richard,

I do see the parallel in the Parable of the Sower. I love that parable and how the soil represents the heart. The seed that falls into stony places, the Greek text seems to indicate that this is not rocks mixed in with dirt, but an actual cement slab. There's just enough dirt on top of the slab to catch the seed, but not enough for the seed to take root. I notice that out of the four types of soil (Heart conditions) that this seed falls on, only one out of the four describes salvation, and that is the seed that falls on good ground, as you mentioned. That is the only one out of the four that bears fruit. Only a saved person bears fruit.

And yes, we are His sheep and He knows us (Present Tense). A saved believer, when they stand before the Lord at their appointed time, they will never hear the words "Depart from me, I never knew you."

I have to admit, I thought I might have received a more negative response because I was a little unsure where you stood on the permanency of salvation. I do enjoy reading your posts and I think we are in agreement with each other on a lot of things.

Blessings, in Christ Jesus!

Thank you brother Jesse! My flesh must be your relation!

:)

God bless you brother Richard!

Made it home, hydrating! Not that the day went exceptionally smooth but it was a good day!

Grateful and thankful!

:)

Brother Carleton,

Thank you so much for the clarification. I'm sorry I didn't pick up that you were keying in on repentance. I think I'm following you now. I can be a dummy sometimes so please bear with me!

As I'm reading through your post, there is so much of the Greek coming to my mind and I'm trying not to jumble things up. I do understand God's grace (CHARIS). As far as faith goes, there are two types of faith, human faith, and the faith the Bible speaks about. We all have human faith, but not everyone has the faith that the bible speaks about. That faith only comes from God's Spirit. He is the source. In fact, the Greek word for faith in the bible means persuasion. It's when God's Spirit persuades us to do something.

And that's what makes sense when you say "Grace to have faith and confess Him and grace to repent in Him, and that God leads us by grace to repentance at the cross." That word faith literally means persuasion. God persuades us and shows us our need for repentance.



I agree that we are eternally saved at the cross. That's why the bible says we were crucified with Christ. You are at a place where you have found peace at the foot of the cross. Jesus Christ bore all of our sins at the cross, and in Him, all who have received Him are at peace.

I fully understand what you are saying about the flesh thing. The flesh will never submit to the things of the Lord. Here's something I would like to share with you about the flesh. In my daily life, I find that most of my struggle is not with Satan. Most of my struggle is with Christ because my flesh is continuously trying to get down off that cross.

But praise God that he is a God of grace and mercy. And He has His ways of dealing with me when I decide to go in a different direction from where He is leading me. And as you know, sometimes it can be harsh. That's how we know we belong to Him. It's when He disciplines us or chastises us when we get out of line!

God Bless!!!

Sherry,

I also would like to share this with you and anyone else in this thread about the cost of a Jewish person denouncing Judaism and receiving Christ. A pastor had shared a true story with me about a Jewish man who left Judaism and received Jesus Christ.

This man lived in NY City. When he gave up on Judaism to follow Christ, his family denounced him. They even held a funeral for him even though he was still alive because they considered him dead.

And then one day as this man was walking down the street in NY City, he saw his father approaching from the opposite direction. The man waved and called out to him and said "Hey, dad." The dad just stared at him with a blank look. The man said, "Dad, it's me, your son." And he replied back and said, "You can't be my son, my son is dead!"

That's how serious it is for a Jew to surrender their life to Jesus Christ.

Jesse, the SPIRIT has graced you with HIS truth in your answer to Richard; this is THE SABBATH REST.

Hebrews 3:1-19

Hebrews 4:1-16

Don't overwork yourself brother Carleton. Stay hydrated.

Many Blessings and peace be upon you.

Hi Jesse,

I am glad to hear you liked that verse I posted. I agree with how you explain about "salvation" being lost is really more for them that you may ask "were they ever really saved"? Jesus Christ knows His sheep and is known of them when it is revealed. When it is time for our Father to draw us to Him.

As the Hebrews had a lot to lose to follow the Lord and give their lives to Him. As I'm sure there are many people today in which their lives in this world may be more important that giving their lives to the Lord. It seems almost to parallel directly to the parable our Lord told us in Matthew 13:18-23. Being they who received seed in stony places or thorns. As us who are saved, and sealed, unto salvation are as they who received seed in good ground and bear good fruit for our Father in Heaven.

God Bless.

Brother Jesse for me the key word in what I wrote is "repentance". This is using the phrase perhaps out of context but I believe that God draws us from grace to grace. Grace to have faith and confess Him and grace to repent in Him. God leads us by grace to repentance at the cross. At the cross we are eternally saved and no place else. I have Adam's flesh to contend with and my own free will by my mind to choose to believe and follow this grace. For me that place at the cross where the burden of sin was lifted away is a peaceful and restful place. Jesus is there with us because we are now in Him, made clean. When the burdens or drags as you mentioned in life weigh us down we do not need to fight that fight in our mind but return to Calvary as our eternal assurance that Jesus reigns in us. I believe (by experience) that sometimes though these burdens are severe (perhaps against God's leading I chose my own way) enough that the return to Calvary (where all is well) is not clear and repentance may be needed to see the way home again. My testimony is I know this place of eternal rest and peace even in the tribulations of this earth, but I know myself also that I can be deceived; that is why God by his Love, drew me by grace to see His grace which we believe to be his Mercy, which I believe is the way to repentance and eternal salvation which is eternal life.

It is always nice to try to communicate our hearts in His love.

Thank you brother Jesse.

Carleton

Richard,

Thanks for sharing Ephesians 2:10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, literally upon the basis of good works, which God has before ordained, or planned, that we should walk in them. As believers, our new position is in Christ and we are the result of His workmanship. And we're walking in the life that He created for us before we were even saved.

Carleton,

Yes brother, salvation is eternal, amen! And I agree that it is God the Father that led us to Christ as Jesus says in John 6:44 that No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jesus has promised that He will raise us up at the last day. Jesus said in John 6:39, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day."

It is God the Father who draws us to Christ. It is God the Father who gives us to Christ. And Christ said of all that is given to Him, He will not lose one. That seems permanent to me.

Now the word "draw" isn't the drawing that I depict when I put my hand out to draw. This is the word drag in the Greek text. It's the same word used of Lot when the angels, and if you remember when he was leaving town, didn't want to go, and he hesitated?

It was the faithfulness of God that took him by the hand and dragged him out of the city. That is the faithfulness of God. Even in our hesitations, he'll drag us. So the saying is true, "Christianity is a drag!"

I am doing well, thank you. I am also happy to hear all is well with you. The Lord is good!

Good morning brother Jesse!

Salvation is eternal unto life at the foot of the cross and we must know that place by our original repentance experience yet not laying aside the grace that God had for us as he turned our minds toward Him as he led us to His place of repentance, our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Hope all is well your way, good this way. Keep the faith!

Carleton

Sherry,

You will not find the phrase "Once saved, always saved" in the bible. But that does not mean that salvation is not permanent. There are a couple of verses in Hebrews that seem to indicate that salvation can be lost, but if you understand who the book was written to and what was taking place at that time, you can better understand that it's not talking about saved individuals losing their salvation.

I would encourage you to do some research on what it would cost a Hebrew/Jewish person to denounce Judaism and surrender their life to Christ. It would cost them everything. They would be disowned by their own family, they would be kicked out of their temple, society would not accept them, and they wouldn't be allowed to get a job. It's still the same today.

Hebrews 6:4 seems to indicate that a person can lose their salvation, but that's not the case. It's not talking about saved believers losing their salvation. It's talking about Jews who were part of the crowd that were following along with the teachings and being enlightened to the truth, but never taking that next step in surrendering to Christ. An enlightened person does not mean they are saved. We have many people in our churches today that are being enlightened to the truth, but still haven't surrendered their lives to Christ. They are in church every week but they are not saved. And many of them do eventually walk away. They are not losing their salvation because they never were saved.

You see, there were many Hebrew people following along with the teaching. They were being "enlightened" to the truth. The problem is they never surrendered their life to Christ because of what it would cost them.

I believe in the permanency of salvation because I know that salvation is a work of God, not man. It is God who saves us, and it is God who keeps us saved. If we say we have eternal life, but also believe it can be lost, is it really eternal?

Good day brother Richard, currently working here with the hands and by the sweat of the brow (it was easier when I was your age) but still it is good. Keep the faith!

Carleton

These are some of the verses some people use to defer them from good works.

Ephesians 2:8-9. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Then just reading the next verse shows we are the Lords workmanship to good works and we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 4:21-32. If so be that ye have heard Him, and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Neither give place to the devil.

Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Hello Sherry, I am sure there will be some scriptures coming forward from brethren today with your questions. Brother Chris and I had a discussion kind of related to your question when I gave an experience on a death sin and my restoration. Currently our discussion would be found on page four and finishing towards the end of page three. I hope you find the answers that you are wanting.

Carleton

Hi Sherry,

No where in the Bible does it say "once saved always saved". It does say those who have been "partakers" of the gift of the Holy Ghost "if they shall fall away". Hebrews 6:4-6. In numerous places it speaks of those who have heard the truth, of our Lord Jesus Christ, or "escaped the pollutions of the world" and then are entangled again. 2 Peter 2:20-22. Is as the Proverb 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Repenting of the sins of this world is one of the most important messages throughout the entire Holy Bible. 1 Peter 1:14-16. The devil is the only one who wants people to keep sinning in their worldly lifestyles. Which keeps you separated from God. We are to do our best to follow in the footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ did not die so we could live a life of willful sin and not care. That is what the devil wants people to think so they keep on sinning. This is not a joke or a free pass to sin. God hates sin. Though he loves the sinner and wants them to repent and turn to the Lord.

There is nothing wrong with good works. That is what makes God happy. Love. What is in your heart? It is not good works that save us. The grace, mercy, and love of God saved us as He sent us His Son. To live a perfect life for us. Good works, and repenting from sin and iniquity, is what shows our faith in the Lord that we are walking in newness of life and are His children. To live by His Will.

Don't let anyone tell you repenting and good works are taking something away from Jesus Christ. We must follow our Lord, with a pure heart, till the end.

God Bless.

Where in the Bible does it once you are saved you are always saved? Also I know some people who say if you repent of your sins you are trying to be saved by works, is this true ? If so where in the Bible does it say this.?

What does the bible say about people who run the streets all night long

You are correct my brother Chris. As we really can't make to much of it. We'll just have to stay vigilant.

Most definitely let us fervently pray day and night.

1 Timothy 6:15-16 Which in His times He shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God Bless