Discuss Revelation 12 Page 11

Steve, May the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

John 9 1-3 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

(vs 2) And his disciples ask him, saying, Master, WHO DID SIN, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

(vs 3) Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, or his parents: but that THE WORKS OF GOD should be manifest in him.

None of us can completely understand why God does certain thing, but we can believe through the working of the Holy Spirit and stand on his word that the outcome will both bring us into the light and glorify God in the process.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day (of the Lord)(CHRIST IN YOU) dawn, and the day star arise in you hearts.

Revelation 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 22:16 ...... I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together; and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the holy Spirit) saying in heaven (you, where Christ

dwells), Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of God (Christ in you), and the power of his Christ: for the ACCUSER of our brethern is cast down, which ACCUSED them (you) before our God day and night (they have no rest).

COME INTO MY REST AND CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS (your way of thinking)

May the SPIRIT grace you with ears to hear and eyes to see.

REVELATION 13:17

May the Spirit grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

Revelation 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .....things that must shortly come to pass.....and signified....

(vs 3) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things that are written therein: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Most will study Revelation and never apply these verses to the truth of the rest of Revelation.

Signified: the nouns are symbols of something other than there definition as denoted by a dictionary. There definition can be found hidden in other scriptures in God's word.

Example:

Luke 8:5 ....and the fowls of the air devoured it.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this...

Luke 8:12 ....then cometh the DEVIL (fowls of the air)

Luke 13:19 (A PARABLE) It (kingdom of heaven) is like a grain of mustard seed....and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches (where the fowls of the air dwell)....WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING.

Revelation 2:13 ....Even where Satan's seat is...

Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVIL'S by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God (Christ in you) is come in unto you.

Revelation 12:7-10 And there was war in heaven (where is the kingdom of heaven; CHRIST IN YOU, heaven is YOU): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

(vs 8) And prevailed not, neither was THEIR place found anymore in heaven (in you)

(vs 9) And the great dragon was cast out......

(vs 10) and I heard a loud voice (Holy Spirit) saying, Now is salvation... strength..and the kingdom....

Must shortly come to pass: the revealing of Jesus Christ, he is the kingdom of heaven: CHRIST IN YOU has to happen in before your physical body dies.

The time is at hand: If you were alive 1800 years ago these words were would have declared the kingdom of heaven to you just as they are declaring the kingdom of heaven to the person reading them at the instance.

Hello Earl,

Indeed we are taught by God's Spirit. Thanks for sharing John 2:27. One word that stands out to me in that verse is the word abideth/abide, MENO in the original language. MENO is a word that denotes permanency, God's Spirit permanently abiding in us and us in Him. I agree that He is our teacher.

You and I have a different understanding of Revelation 12:14 on who this woman is and the other symbolisms in that verse, but that's okay. I know there are different theories as to who this woman is. One group says this woman is Mary Baker Eddy, which I totally disagree with!

Jesse, may the Spirit grace us with his wisdom and understanding. You stated that Paul was bold in his teachings; but could be so because he was taught by Jesus in the desert. Scripture says we are taught the same way.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him abideth in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman (symbolic of the church, which is us) were given two wings of a great eagle (symbolic of the kingdom of heaven), that she might fly in the wilderness (the desert where you are taught by the Holy Spirit, which is Christ), into her place, nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (symbolic of the day of the Lord which began at John the Baptist crying as a voice in the desert and has continued now for 2000 years.

Ezekiel 17:1-24

Mark 1:3

John 1:23

Daniel 12:7

Daniel 12:11-12

BE BOLD, fear not it's Christ words, it's his WORKS.

Hi Skip, hope you don't mind, I agree with your "wonder to the angels". I have not read anywhere in scripture that angels will be replaced. In Matt. 25:41 we read the lake of fire was prepared for Satan (devil) and his angels and like everything else, most likely before the foundation of the world, the plan of God. We read in Job1:6 Job 2:1 Satan still has access to heaven, Satan and God are having a conversation about Job. We also see God puts restrictions on Satan.

I Luke.10:18 we read Jesus saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven.

In Revelation 12:10 we read the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down. Satan did not fall in Revelation 12, he was cast out of heaven "neither was their place found any more in heaven". We also see in Revelation 12:11 the reason they were able to cast Satan out. "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony"; This shows this is at least after the crucifying of Jesus, more likely in the future. Also, in Revelation 12, it is permanent, they are rejoicing in heaven Satan will no longer have access to heaven. When Satan is cast out down to earth he gives his power to the beast in Revelation 13.

In the Bible, we can read angels left their first estate and their own habitation and are locked in chains of darkness until judgment day. Jude 1:6 and 2Pet.2:4. Some scriptures say there are demons, evil spirits on the earth, and how they got here there is little information in the Bible how. You have to go outside the Bible and compile a bushel of speculations and pick one but be careful.

Some things are not answered by scriptures but do not affect our salvation. The things we do need are in bold print.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Thanks Ron

Vincent,

Go ahead and tell us your thoughts here. I can't extract specific answers from the text.

Maybe you can explain the dichotomy of the devil who shows up in the garden, Genesis 3, from the "morning star" that weakened the nations, Isaiah 14:12-15 and aspired to rise to heaven, from the one kicked out of heaven, Revelation 12:7-9.

I need semblance to draw a rational conclusion on what's happening with satan's tenure. Is this the nature of inequity, allowing the spirit of satan to continually spoil life?

Jesus calls the devil "the God of this world", 2 Corinthians 4:4. Does the devil's spirit reside on earth where he works his loom, or does he do so from heaven, or both? Has he already been kicked out of heaven, and Rev 12:7-9 is purely symbolic?

Today we face the same problems Adam and Eve faced in the garden, nothing has changed. I have a feeling you can shed light on this.

For a job, health and coverage. Blessings.

Ron,

"the 6th trumpet the 2nd woe. If we read Revelation 11 and Revelation 12 it was the third woe the final woe"

You misspoke. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe.

I must say this is a defining moment. You almost had me...



Revelation 12:12 will just have to wait a little season. Rev 12:12 will be given robes like their fellow servants.

God Bless America

I'd like to add some commentary concerning Jesus' ministry. The 70th week is split evenly, and over time, between Jesus and Anti-Christ: each having 42 months (3.5 years) power. Jesus' ministry was the 1st half of the week, 42 months, and was cut off, crucified, then in the end-times, satan gets the 2nd half of the week, 42 months.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

We also see that the 2 witnesses (The 144,000, The woman/church) are persecuted by by satan for 42 months, Revelation 12:4

These hostilities takes place between the 6th and 7th trumpets, during anti-Christs rule.

There is no such thing as a 7 year great tribulation, satan only gets 42 months.

Pray for James, a Drilling Engineer, 500 miles out in the ocean who just hurt his hand and needs to finish his contract so that he can return home to his family.

just asking for everyone to pray for the father of my son Jose, whose spirit is broken and he is living a life of addiction and pain, to be guided and healed toward a righteous path of well being. thank you.

I have lifted you both up to the Lord. Lung cancer is serious, but God is still on the throne. I have asked Him to show the doctors the reason you aren't able to speak. "Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you."-- 1 Peter 5:7

Lets continual our wait on the lord while he is (zephaniah ) god has a determinaion to gather all the nations unto his holy assembly to pour out on them his indination of fierce anger of jealousy

Yup! They came here to pratice their free & good worship to their God by killing my people-" INDIANS"who was here with no need for you. Thanks for shewing us the way to the Cross.

Please pray for me and my husband. I am suffering with a loss of voice for a long time and the doctors cannot diagnose it. Also, my husband is suffering with lung cancer. Thank you.

William, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Revelation 12:7 And there was WAR IN HEAVEN.......

Revelation 1:1 .....and sent and signified (or symbolic of) it by his angel....

Revelation 1:3 ....for the time is at hand....

Revelation is difficult at best to understand because most want believe the above two verses. The words were just as true for readers in Johns time as they are to us in our time and will be to those in the future who read them. The war in heaven (which began after Christ was crucified) was happening in Johns time just as it it happening today and will continue happening as long as there is a tomorrow.

Now, with the working of the Spirit let's see if by using other verses as the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM we can come to the truth about the WAR IN HEAVEN.

Luke 17:21 .....the kingdom of heaven is in YOU.....

2 Corinthians 12:2 ....such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God DWELLETH IN

YOU?

There is a natural heaven, but an a symbol it represent us (WHERE GOD DWELLS)

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the SPIRIT OF GOD, then the KINGDOM OF GOD IS COME UNTO YOU.

Revelation 12:7 ....and there was war in heaven (in you)...

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out..

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice (the Holy Spirit) saying in heaven (in you), now is salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM OF OUR GOD..

Luke 10:17-18 And he said unto them (the seventy he sent out to cast out devils), I beheld SATAN as lighting fall FROM HEAVEN (from those that Satan was cast out of).

2 Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God (Spirit) to the pulling down strong holds (traditions of man).

Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the (natural) warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this (spiritual battle) shall be with (spiritual) burning and FUEL of (spiritual) FIRE.

What does the Sun, Moon and garland mean in Revelation 12:1

Sandra,

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4

Which law spells out forgiveness? Had I a choice to only break one of the ten in my lifetime, no matter which I choose, forgiveness isn't there. Righteousness by the law was fulfilled by only one person, the Lord Jesus. That righteousness is what is imputed to those who believe, therefore, those who believe are under no obligation to do, what only Jesus did. However, once the love of God is received it shows in the life of a believer, perhaps not always perfectly, but it grows in their earthly lifetime.

It is the pride of the flesh to think that before the law a person lacks nothing. Matthew 19:30

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24

"To demonstrate our love for God and His Son, Jesus Christ, is to conduct our lives in harmony with the Ten Commandments." It is pride that attaches eternal life to the letter of the law. "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." 1John 1:17 The law is in the sphere of the work of the Holy Spirit, John 16:8, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment". Believers testify of Christ's, grace and truth. I have no doubt the Holy Spirit within a believer will not lead them to violate any of the ten commandments, because the righteousness of Christ exceeds the letter of the law.

Sandra, Are all your sins forgiven?

Thank you Sandra for your detailed explanation of your understanding of the Law & the Book of Ordinances. I do agree with much of what you've written. However, still the Scripture, Romans 8:1-4 niggles at us, to which you've not referred to directly.

How do you reconcile that Scripture with what you believe? In other words, what is Paul referring to here in Romans 8: the Law contained in the Commandments, or the Book of Ordinances, or both?

Chris please let me continue ... and sacrificial laws contained in the book that Moses wrote on parchment and placed beside the Ark of the Covenant. Just as the parchment was perishable--would eventually disintegrate--so it was with the laws of sacrifice. Upon Christ's death on the cross, the curtain in the temple, between the Holy Place and Most Holy Place, was torn in two, from top to bottom, by God's own hands, indicating that the real sacrifice of the Lamb of God, which the daily temple sacrifice symbolized, had paid the ultimate sacrifice to atone for our sins. There was no more need for sacrifice. We have been redeemed by Jesus' mercy and grace, not by the "shadows of things to come". All the symbols of the sacrificial laws had been fulfilled, therefore, in symbolic terms, the sacrificial laws were "nailed to the cross". The cross WAS the altar upon which Jesus Christ, the Messiah, was sacrificed for our sake.

The entire Old Testament tells of our fall and of God's plan of redemption. The entire New Testament tells of Christ's sacrifice for our sins and His plan to return, gather His faithful ones, put an end to sin, and recreate the earth as it was before sin entered. Sin, death, illness, and dying will be no more.

The stone tablets containing the 10 Commandments are the immutable, permanent, unchanging will and character of God.

The stone tablets (Ten Commandments) were written by the Creator Himself with His own finger. The Ten Commandments represent God's character. Also, the first 4 commandments reveal our obligation to God the Creator ("Love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul, and mind"); and the last 6 commandments reveal our obligation to our fellow man ("Love your neighbor as yourself"), as outlined by Jesus Christ. The Ten Commandments, being a revelation of God's character, are unchanging and permanent. To demonstrate our love for God and His Son, Jesus Christ, is to conduct our lives in harmony with the Ten Commandments.

The stone tablets were placed inside the ark, because the ark represented the living presence of God among the people, and the Ten Commandments are His character.

The book of ordinances that was written on parchment by Moses were the laws and ceremonies connected with the blood sacrifices, which were offered as atonement for sin. The sacrifices, and the ceremonies and laws connected with them were symbolic of--pointed forward to--the Messiah, Jesus Christ, who was the Lamb of God--the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. The entire temple and its divisions represented the coming Messiah. The altar of sacrifice represented His death; the laver represented the Water of Life (Christ) and the washing away of sins; the shewbread represented Christ, who is the Bread of Life; the seven candlesticks represented Christ, who is the Light of the World; and the Most Holy Place represented the presence of God the Father, who was reflected by Christ ("If you have seen me, you have seen the Father").

When Christ began His ministry,He resisted Satan's temptations in the wilderness immediately after His baptism, was crucified on Friday, rose from the dead on Sunday morning, and shortly thereafter ascended to His Father with the promise to return and redeem His faithful followers, He fulfilled all of the symbolism contained in the ordinances, special sabbaths,

How does this chapter relate to events of now in 2020-2021?

Every person should read Ezekiel 13 because God says that those preachers who out of their own mind with their Devine thinking of made up stuff by themselves and not Gods Devine plan are going to get it, the boot! and telling people they are going to fly away is very dangerous so just so you know rapture people God hates those who teach His people to fly to save their souls and at the 6th trump when a false messiah stands in Jerusalem with supernatural powers as antichrist claiming he is God returned and the world will follow him and he just might say follow me and we will all fly away it ain't gonna be where you think. Now those who know Revelation 12:8 Satan booted out to deceive the world in a deception and Mark 13, Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2 take heed and don't be deceived. Also the 7 years was cut down to five months for the elect sake anyway 5 months Revelation 9:10 so Satan will be here 2 an a half so store food for 3 months and don't buy or sell and Listen To Those who are Delivered up its God Speaking. Wait for the 7th Trump that's when Christ returns, fire and hail stones and He ain't going to fly anyone out because He sets His Kingdom up Here!

This is a wonderful song based on Revelation 12:10b-12 NLT:



Revelation 12:10b-12 (NLT) - Bible Song | It Has Come at Last

It is by Amy Treadwell Toy and her husband Brandon Toy.

Sandra, I do agree with what you've said about the 'law of commandments contained in ordinances', that the reference here is not to the Ten Commandments but to those other laws pertaining to sacrifices, new moons, sabbaths, etc., but not just these only, but all the Law was fully met by Jesus & then abrogated at the Cross.

"The Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good", but its usefulness, effectiveness & applicability became redundant at the Cross. For sin, taking its authority from the commandment, 'slew' Paul, because that was all the Law could do. What Paul hoped that the Law would give him life, instead only brought him death. So he said that "with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Was Paul saying that he was still going back to God's Laws, obeying in them in his mind & allowing his flesh to sin? No. In the very next verses he says in Romans 8:1-4: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The Law of sin & death (the Ten Commandments & not just the Law contained in Ordinances, but the whole) which slew him, he now rejected, but rather a new Law of the Spirit had taken its place & brought him freedom & power to fulfil the righteousness of the Law.

And Galatians 3:19, as you quoted, doesn't refer to the Ordinances but to the Law - indeed that whole Chapter 3 is devoted to pointing the believers from depending on the 'works of the Law' to the application of faith through the Spirit.

Some churches preach to this day that Jesus abolished the Ten Commandments when He died on the cross. They proclaim this assumption by using Ephesians 2:15 as their basis of evidence, which says. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;..." The obvious truth here is, that the verse states that it was the Commandments contained in ORDINANCES that was abolished at the cross. Not the Ten Commandments contained in stone. The passage in Colossians 2:14-17 has also been used to preach the Commandments abolished. But if you read it you will find it was, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances", again that is mentioned in that passage. According to the Word of God, these ordinances were "added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made" ( Galatians 3:19) It's rather clear to see here that the "commandments contained in ordinances" were added by Moses for a specific reason. If we read the passage again we see it also states these ordinances were only added TILL the seed should come. And who was this seed according to Scripture? Galatians 3:16 boldly proclaims, "thy seed, which is Christ."

The commandments contained in ordinances were added by Moses thousands of years ago as a way to prepare the people for the FIRST arrival of Messiah. They showed their faith in the coming Messiah by keeping the ordinances on a regular basis. When Jesus died on the cross, the ordinances were no longer needed because he fulfilled them by all He did while visiting us as Messiah. The "ordinances" were a series holy days, new moons, and Sabbath days that were to be considered a "shadow of things to come." The word "ordinance" is NOT the same as the word "commandment." where in the Ten Commandments does it speak of "meat and drink?" Nowhere do we find such statements in the Law of God.

So which one is it God the father or christ you are confusing people mr. Trinitarian

Thanks Chris, That shines more light to that phrase that I never fully taken in.

What a mighty Scripture portion you've shared. Thank you Steven. And people miss that little phrase tucked away: "which are a shadow of things to come". The "body" might cast a shadow, but the "shadow" becomes insignificant when the body is present. Our focus must be on the "body" to which the things in the shadow point to.

Colossians 2:13-17. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.