Is Revelation 6:2 referring to the Second Coming of Christ?
In Revelation 19:11-15, we are given the vision of the second coming of Christ. The Key Verses are Psalm 45:3-4, Psalm 96:13, and Isaiah 11:4.
In Revelation Chapter 19, we see that when Christ returns at His Second Coming, He will be riding a white horse. Chapter 19 also tells us that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS.
If we go back to Revelation 6:2, we also see a white horse. Some see "white horse", and they connect this with the white horse in Revelation Chapter 19 and believe this is Jesus riding this horse in both places, Chapters 6 and 19. But is the rider the same in both places?
In Chapter 19, I do believe that the rider on the white horse is Jesus. But in Chapter 6, the rider is not referring to Jesus. It is the representation of the antichrist, the false messiah who will come.
The only thing the same in both places is the white horse and this can mislead us into thinking this is Jesus because we know He will return on a white horse. But in Chapter 6, it is not Jesus. I say this because of the differences I see between Chapters 6 and 19. I will share these differences in a second post as I am unable to fit this into a single post.
Here are the differences I see that cause me to come to this conclusion:
In Chapter 6, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow (TOXON). In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword (RHOMPHAIA), not a bow. In Chapter 6, it says a crown (Singular) was given to this one. And the word for crown in Chapter 6 is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS. It is not the crown Christ will be wearing. Jesus will not be wearing a wreath. He will be wearing a royal crown, a DIADEM.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown. It is not a STEPHANOS, the wreath that the false messiah will be wearing.
In Chapter 6, it says this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system. Also, another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until Revelation Chapter 19.
So, this one riding on a white horse in Revelation 6:2 with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS which is a wreath, not a DIADEM, the royal crown that Christ will be wearing. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said would come first.
Hopefully this might be helpful to some. I was one who used to believe that the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 was Jesus. But after comparing the differences using the original text, I no longer see these two places referring to the Second Coming of Christ, but one referring to the false Messiah ( Revelation 6:2), and the other ( Revelation 19:11-15) referring to our Savior Jesus Christ coming wearing a royal crown and with a sword. Not a wreath, not a bow!
If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
Thanks for your reply-I think we're circling back to the heart of our earlier discussion.
First, on reigning with Christ: I agree Revelation 2:26-27 promises ruling authority to overcomers at Thyatira, and Revelation 20:4 shows martyrs from "all nations" sharing in Christ's rule. The question is not whether redeemed people reign, but who reigns where within God's revealed programs. Paul discloses a "one new man" ( Eph 2:15) called the Body of Christ, blessed "in heavenly places" and seated there now ( Eph 1:3; 2:6). Israel, by contrast, is promised an earthly kingdom under Messiah ( Isa 2:1-4; Jer 23:5-6; Matt 19:28; Acts 1:6; 3:19-21). Both realms are under the same Lord, but the stewardships and destinations differ ( 2 Tim 2:12; 1 Cor 6:2-3).
That leads to the Bride question. Dispensationally, the Body of Christ is not the Bride of Christ. In Scripture, bridal/marriage language is consistently tied to Israel and Zion:
"Thy Maker is thine husband" ( Isa 54:5).
"I will betroth thee unto me for ever" ( Hos 2:19-20).
"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee" ( Isa 62:4-5).
In Revelation the identification becomes explicit: "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wifeand he shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem" ( Rev 21:9-10). The city bears Israel's fingerprints-twelve tribes on its gates and the twelve apostles on its foundations ( Rev 21:12-14). Moreover, the wife in Revelation 19:7-8 is arrayed in "fine linenthe righteous acts of saints," fitting the works-tested, kingdom saints who endure (cf. Matt 24:13; Rev 14:12), not the grace-standing, already-perfected righteousness imputed to the Body ( Rom 3:21-26; Phil 3:9).
I agree, when Jesus returns, it will not be a secret, as all the Scriptures proclaim, it will be with the sound of the trumpet, the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 11:15. As you said, every eye shall see Him coming in the clouds, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 19:11-16.
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection, will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6. Scripture does not say Jesus goes back to heaven. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul is comforting them that those who are asleep/dead in Christ would not be left out of the return of Christ and the resurrection. Nowhere in these verses does it say we are taken to heaven.
If we read and study Scriptures with preconceived assumptions, it fogs the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 is about the return of Jesus and our gathering together unto Him on earth, at His coming. It says do not let man deceive you because Jesus will not return until two things happen. The falling away/apostasy, and the man of sin is revealed.
Revelation 19:20 is where the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. In Revelation 17:14, they are the ones in the first resurrection who are in the battle of Armageddon with Jesus, and in Revelation 20:4 are the ones in the first resurrection who are being judged at the judgment seat of Christ, here on earth.
How much time does Scripture give the beast? In Revelation 13, the beast, whom people call the antichrist, from the time he rises, he is only given 3.5 years, not 7 years, Revelation 13:5. This is after the war in heaven where Michael and his angels overcome and cast Satan and his angels down to earth, this is when the restraints are lifted, not the removal of the Church.
The beast is only given 42 months, which is 3.5 years, to make war against the saints and to overcome them, Revelation 13:7. If the church is removed, whom will he make war against? The resurrection of the dead is divided into two:
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection and will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6.
Resurrection for the rest of the dead, which is the second resurrection, and will happen after the 1000 years of Christ's reign, Revelation 20:7-15.
The ones in the first resurrection will reign with Christ, where, Daniel 7:27, 2 Timothy 2:12Revelation 20:6, Revelation 5:9-10. When Jesus returns, He does not go back to heaven.
We see in Revelation 20:4 thrones, and judgment was given to those in the first resurrection. This is on earth, and we see those who were beheaded and did not take the mark or worship the beast, and these lived and reigned with Christ on earth for the 1000 years.
last trumpet is the seventh trumpet, the same trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Jesus is coming to establish His kingdom on this earth.
It should be understood that the Bible clearly states that there are two comings of Jesus.
He came to die for the sins of mankind: this has been fulfilled.
Second Coming: coming to establish the kingdom of God/heaven. This is yet to happen. The resurrection of the righteous dead only happens at the second coming of Christ.
I understand many believe in the rapture, some say pre, mid, or post. In all three views, we are taken to heaven. I have not found any Scripture that explicitly states we are taken to heaven; it is an assumption, and it must be read where it is not written. I don't see the bride mentioned in the rapture doctrine; that's another discussion.
I see the coming of Jesus not as a secret event, but as one the world will witness. This is supported by Scripture: Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and Revelation 19:11-16. This event occurs after the seventh angel sounds the last trumpet, Revelation 11:15. Then, we see the angel summoning the birds for the battle of Armageddon.
The ones in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4-6, will be with Jesus during the battle, Revelation 17:12-14. Afterward, we observe the judgment of those in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4.
A thought, over the past nearly 2000 years, believers in Christ, the body of Christ, the Church have faced beheading, burning at the stake, being placed on poles soaked in oil, lit as lamps along roads, among other horrible deaths. Why would the last of the Church be spared? We have been told we will face much tribulation, and if we endure, Matthew 24:9-13. The Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
That could be true however there is a unique difference in the way Christ is presented to Lordship over the Church and Lordship in the Kingdom here on earth.
Christ Lordship is over our hearts without any written articles on tablets.
In the Kingdom Christ is ruling with a rod of iron.
In Revelation 12:5 we see the Israel presented as the woman and her children who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ.
The Church is never identified as the nations or inhabitants of the earth.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 seems to fit Christ ruling here on earth with a rod of iron as presented in other scriptures and that is a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
Other passages;
Revelation 2:27.
Revelation 19:15.
Isaiah 65:16-25 has much to say about this economy.
This echoes Psalms 2:6-9.
"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Scripture says the Church shall reign with Christ.
Revelation 20:6.
2 Timothy 2:12.
Revelation 5:10.
Luke 22:28-30.
The reigning is not a present reality but a future hope for believers.
Permit me to follow the example of Elihu and act in accordance with his statement in Job 32:21-22.
In a previous comment, you emphasized the importance of properly considering a matter before speaking, so as not to appear as "fools." I wonder if perhaps the claim that Christ will reign with the saints on earth was rebutted too quickly, without sufficient consideration.
The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14:2-3 are described as the firstfruits of those saved in Israel after the rapture, as verse 14 clarifies. However, this does not imply that Christ will not return to earth with them. They will return together with all who have inherited salvation, as seen in Revelation 21:1-3.
It is also important to note that the New Jerusalem, symbolically represented as the Bride, represents the spiritual Church or body of Christ. This is supported in Hebrews 12:22, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 2:19-22, 1 Peter 2:5, and 1 Corinthians 3:9. Only those who have received the Spirit of Christ are considered part of the Church of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9).
This Church will return to earth and reign with Christ for a thousand years, as indicated in Revelation 20:4, Revelation 12:5, and Revelation 19:15.
As Elihu said in Job 34:22: "If you have understanding, hear this; listen to the voice of my words."
Please note that my words are not intended as insults or to cause offense, for that would not reflect the love that the Lord Jesus expects from us. Rather, my intention is to encourage careful consideration of matters from a biblical perspective, rather than relying solely on worldly opinion. As the Lord Jesus said, many teach the traditions of men as doctrine, and as Paul says, we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.
Brother, my memory could be failing me, but I thought you didn't believe in a rapture so I was sort of taken aback by your statement saying, "The Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ must be the same event."
I agree that there will be angels coming with the power of God, and they will accompany Christ when He comes back to the earth at His second coming. The scriptures you provided show that, although I'm not sure how Matthew 26:53 fits in there. However, I'm not sure if angels accompanying Christ would rule out the church from coming with Him also.
We have the description of the events of the Second Coming of Christ beginning at Revelation 19:1 and ending at Revelation 22:5. In Chapter 19, we see a marriage feast taking place. Revelation 19:7 says, Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
We know who the Lamb is. But who's His wife that is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white? I say it is the church. We are His bride. Verse 8 says that she (His bride) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Whoever it is, we are told in Verse 14 that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. If you are saying that the armies mentioned in Revelation 19:14 are angels, why would they be clothed in fine linen white and clean, the same apparel as the bride in in Revelation 19:8?
We know that angels will be accompanying Christ, but are these angels the ones who are clothed in fine linen, white and clean, or is it the bride that we see up in Verses 7 and 8? Whoever it is, they will be the ones coming with Him and they are the armies we see in Verse 14.
I see Revelation 19:8 as describing the bride of Christ (the church). And the bride is given fine linen to wear, the same attire spoken of in Verse 14. So, my understanding is that the armies (emphasis on plural) in Verse 14 consists of both angels and saints, with the saints being the ones arrayed in fine linen.
Zechariah 14:5 indicates that when the Lord comes, all the saints will come with Him. In Matthew 24:31, which you referenced, the elect being gathered are the Jews, not the church.
To answer your question asking who they are in Revelation 20:4-6, I would say that they are the ones who were still here after the rapture, and during the tribulation they were persuaded by the angelic preaching of the gospel and the gospel being preached by the 144,000 not to take the mark of the beast. They will be beheaded for not worshipping the beast or taking the mark.
From what I see, Revelation 20:4-6 is not talking about the church. There will be some who will turn to Christ during the tribulation period, and they will be saved.
Anyways, I'm sure we are once again in disagreement on this subject, but it is still nice to be able to share our understanding with each other. May the Lord continue to keep us until the day of redemption, and may He continue to give us a hunger for His word in order that we might grow in His grace and knowledge.
Revelation is difficult to discuss briefly, and I may have stumbled.
I tried to explain that Revelation isn't arranged in order like other books in the Bible, and I didn't do a good job. Jesus doesn't return until the seventh trumpet, the last trump, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Revelation 10:7.
I'm sorry, but I don't know much about Premillennialism, Amillennialism, or Postmillennialism. I haven't studied them, and I don't care for titles.
My understanding is that Jesus returns in Revelation 19:11-16, and the saints are resurrected, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 20:4-6.
This is when the great tribulation ends, and God's wrath is poured out, Revelation 15:7, Revelation 16:1-17.
Next comes the battle of Armageddon, Revelation 19:17-21 which those in the first resurrection will participate, Revelation 17:14. Their Judgement is shown in Revelation 20:4. The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and those who worshiped the beast and had the mark are either cast in then or during the white throne judgment, but their verdict was already given, Revelation 14:9-10.
Then the kingdom will be established, and there will be people left in the nations whom Satan, after he is released, will deceive.
The land of Israel will be restored, Ezekiel 11:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, and members of the tribes of Israel that will be gathered from all the nations will inhabit that land during the 1000 years, Jeremiah 29:14. Other nations will, as seen in Zechariah 14:16-20, witness Jesus ruling with a rod of iron; there are other Scriptures about this time.
But the seventh trumpet is not the last trumpet. It's the seventh trumpet! It's the last of the seven, but this one is specifically the last trumpet for the call. It's the same trumpet mentioned in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 about the rapture because he says, "For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised."
This trumpet is not an actual trumpet. In the Hebrew, it's the word Shofar. It is a ram's horn. They blow them even in Israel today. It's played for the gathering of the armies. It's sounded from the top of the temples for the priests to come do their daily duties at the temple.
What I find interesting with this is that in Revelation 19:14, it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
Now, I believe that Revelation 19:14 is speaking of the Second Coming. But who else could these armies be besides the church that will come back with Christ? At the beginning of this chapter, in Revelation 19:1, it speaks about a "great voice of much people in heaven," and they are giving praise to the Lord. This is before we even get to the Second Coming in Verse 14. Who are these "much people"?
Whoever they are, they are described as being at a marriage supper taking place in Heaven prior to the Second Coming, and they are also arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So, are these armies saints who will come with Jesus when He returns?
So, this shofar will sound, the dead shall be raised incorruptible, not in their corruptible body, but a new body incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 "Can you tell me how you interpret the events after the tribulation period, on into the Millennium, when Satan is chained and when he is loosed?"
I will do my best to show my understanding of your questions. My study is simple, and I rely on the Bible for interpretation. I use Word Search, a concordance, and my Bible provides other verses that cross-reference a word or phrase throughout Scripture.
The book of Revelation is not in chronological order. We see in Revelation 1:7, that when He comes in the clouds, every eye will see Him. Revelation 6:12-17 shows a vision given to John after the Sixth Seal, revealing the signs of Jesus' coming. Cross-references include Joel 2:10-11, 30-31, Matthew 24, and others.
In Revelation 11:15-19, the seventh trumpet, or the last trumpet, signals the coming of Jesus, ending the tribulation and beginning God's wrath. Revelation 14 combines visions that are not in order; we see Jesus standing on Mount Zion with the 144000, which would occur after Revelation 19:11-16. We know this because, when He returns, His feet will land on the Mount of Olives, as described in Zechariah 14:4.
Revelation 14:6-7 describes the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, which must occur near the end of the tribulation. The announcement of Babylon's fall is seen in chapters 17 and 18. Revelation 14:9-11 states the fate of those who worship the beast, take its mark, and follow the beast and the false prophet. This is carried out in Revelation 19:20-21.
Revelation 14:12-13 declares, "Blessed are those who die in the Lord from henceforth," even as the tribulation continues. My understanding of Revelation 14:14-16, which covers the harvest and the first resurrection, is supported by passages like Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6, and Matthew 24:29-31. Revelation 14:17-20 describes the battle of Armageddon, with related references in Revelation 19:17-21, Ezekiel 39:17-21, and Luke 17:37.
My understanding of the coming of Jesus, the first resurrection, and the gathering of saints to Him, which I see as a one-time event. I understand many may disagree, but I feel in my heart that the teaching of the rapture as a separate event may be incorrect. We must understand that in Revelation, the events recorded in the book are not a linear timeline.
Jesus returns only once, which is what Paul warns about. In 2 Timothy 2:16-18, I believe Paul is addressing the same issue he talks about in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. Paul says, Let no man deceive you by any means, and he is speaking about the coming of the Lord. He states that that day will not come unless there is a falling away first, meaning apostasy or a turning away from faith, and the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, which signifies destruction.
Both of these events must happen before Jesus returns. Just as back then, false teachings about the timing and details of Jesus' return, as I feel the idea of a separate rapture, many are expecting something that is not going to happen, and when it becomes evident to those still here, that moment will lead to the falling away. I feel great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.
When Jesus returns, we observe the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, and the judgment of those in the first resurrection in Revelation 19:11 through Revelation 20:4-6. This judgment includes those who did not worship the beast or take his mark. This proves it is after the great tribulation. Those who fought with Jesus in this battle are the chosen and faithful, Revelation 17:14. These are the ones in the first resurrection; they will reign with Jesus on earth, not in heaven.
Thank you, brother, for this discussion that I feel is very important and will continue to study. It is up to each of us to pray in search of the truth.
And of course Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". To assure the believers in that Church, Paul writes that the Day of Christ's appearing and our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, will only come after a falling away & the revelation of the Anti-Christ. After this happens, Christ appears & we are gathered (the Rapture & Resurrection of 1 Thessalonians chap 4?) unto Him. Then the Great Tribulation begins, as God's Wrath is displayed first in its infancy (the removing of His Restrainer), then with increasing suffering, culminating in Matthew 24:29,30.
Your reference to Revelation 12:12 has bearing on the whole chapter and I perceive we don't understand it the same way and it would be too long to exegete here. Then to Revelation 19:7-9, comparing with Revelation 21:9-11. I can see the connection that the Lamb's wife is the New Jerusalem as stated here, but when we read Revelation 19:7-9, we see that 'she (the New Jerusalem?) hath made herself ready; she would be arrayed in fine white linen which is the righteousness of the saints (can a city or a people be so arrayed?); and there is to be a marriage supper (with a city?)'. This can be quite confusing if one is to believe that Jesus is marrying a city. Or maybe, there are two references: of a city & the Church represented together in marriage. I can't tell. To Page 3.
What is the Rapture? It is a doctrine that began in the 1800s and is widely accepted today. The belief in it is so strong that many see it as a promise, a guarantee, that the Church will be taken to heaven and escape the great tribulation, which is often confused with the wrath of God. But is it true or just a deception? Isn't the rapture a resurrection? We see there are only two resurrections, in Revelation 20:6 and Revelation 20:12-13, separated by a thousand years.
Nowhere is the Church shown in heaven; Revelation 19:7-9 is not about the Church. It describes the bride of Christ adorned with the righteousness of the saints. The marriage and the marriage supper will not occur until Revelation 21:1-2, which takes place after the new heaven and new earth. The angel shows John the bride, the Lamb's wife, who is not the Church, as stated in Revelation 21:9-11.
We must distinguish between the great tribulation and the wrath of God; they are not the same. Tribulation refers to the suffering and persecution faced by believers. We see in Revelation 12:12, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has come down to you, having great wrath. This is when he gives power to the beast, and the great tribulation begins. The short time Satan believed he had was 3.5 years, not seven. Revelation 13:5 mentions 42 months, which is 1260 days, or 3.5 years. The prophecy in Daniel 9 is all about the Messiah, Jesus, and the time Israel has.
We do not see the wrath of God and the Lamb until after the sixth seal, in Revelation 6:12-17. This is when Jesus returns to earth, the earth is round, and when Jesus returns, it will be as in Mathew 24:29-31. We will then meet Him in the air, and we all come down together.
a) Revelation 3:10 (to the Philadelphian Church). This refers to the final seven year tribulation period in which the antichrist will be allowed to deceive the world ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12). Believers can have hope that should this final period come to pass in their lifetimes, they will be kept from having to face God's wrath during the tribulation period; and this Great Tribulation as Jesus spoke about (in Matthew 24:21-31) is the Day of God's Wrath, from which the Church is to be kept from. Even in Zephaniah 2:3, a little glimpse is given of those who will be "hid in the day of the LORD's ANGER".
b) 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10: believers are not appointed to bear God's Wrath but to receive His salvation from it. While it is true that God's wrath is most fully poured out in the sentencing of unbelievers to hell, Revelation 6:15-17 makes it clear that God's wrath is also being poured out upon the earth during the tribulation period (for that is what it means) and believers will not be a part of that. However, those who come to faith during the tribulation will have to suffer the effects of God's wrath, not having received the promise of being kept from the hour of trial. But those days will be cut short for His Elect's sake ( Matthew 24:22).
c) Revelation 19:7-9. The Church is already in Heaven with the Lord, clothed & prepared for the marriage of the Lamb. It is following this that Jesus is seen with the armies of heaven coming to earth to lie waste the armies of the earth and to cast the beast and false prophet into the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 19:11-21). Thus, the church must have already been raptured and taken to heaven before Jesus comes the second time. To Page 3.
I agree that the Church, the Body of Christ, is not the bride; I do not agree that the bride metaphor is rooted in prophecy and tied to Israel. The New Jerusalem is the bride that is dressed in fine linen, pure and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints; Revelation 19:6-8. This is the city that Abraham looked for, Hebrews 11:8-10.
This bride, the New Jerusalem, will not descend until everything is fulfilled and all is made new. Revelation 21:1-3. Then, the marriage and the feast will mark the beginning of our eternity on the new earth with God and Jesus.
Revelation 19:7-9: Let us be glad, rejoice, and honor Him: for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he saith unto me, "These are the true sayings of God."
I also disagree with the teaching of the catching away or the rapture as being carried to heaven. You mention 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, but where does it say we are taken to heaven? This passage describes Jesus returning to earth at the last trump, Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, and Revelation 19:11-16.
Regarding the return of Jesus, I only see in Scripture that He returns once. As seen in 1 Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28, John 14:3, Acts 1:11, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Hebrews 9:28, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 19:11-21, through Revelation 20:1-6, is the same event when Jesus returns, and it occurs after the tribulation of the beast. My understanding is that there is only one Day of the Lord, and that is when Jesus returns.
Regarding the Messiah, I have never asked a Jew about their understanding of it. What I have previously read about Jewish faith is that one day a charismatic Jewish leader, the anointed of God, a man with the characteristics of God, a direct descendant of the Davidic line, will gather Jews from around the world, and bring them back to the Land of Israel and restore the kingdom ridding them of all oppressors.
That was what they were looking for during the time Jesus was here during His 3.5-year ministry, a human conqueror. The disciples were looking for Him to set up the kingdom; they even asked Him after He was resurrected, Acts 1:6-7. They were looking for what we see will happen in the millennium when Jesus returns to earth.
It was mainly the leaders of Jerusalem who did not see or did not hear, which caused blindness in part to happen to Israel, who rejected Jesus; many accepted Jesus as the Messiah while He was here. The leaders of Jerusalem played a prominent role in turning the crowds against Jesus, and it was the nation of Israel as a whole that rejected Him. And today, most Jews do not believe the Messiah has come.
I know we may not agree, but I hope I answered your question.
Revelation 19:16 - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Vesture would be the TZITZIT'S, the prayer shawl that the Jews wear. It will say KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
In Revelation 19:17-18, we have the vision of the supper of God. This is not the supper of the Lamb. This is the supper of God, a little different.
Revelation 19:18 - That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
It's the invitation for the birds to come and feast on dead bodies that will be the result of Christ slaying the nations. In Matthew 24:27-28, Jesus said that wherever the corpse is, the vultures will gather together.
Some have theorized about that for years. Well, here's its fulfillment right here. Jesus said in the end analysis, wherever the vultures are, that's where the dead bodies will be. And that will be the end result of the world and life as we know it.
The vision of the battle of Armageddon is given to us in Verses 19 to 21.
Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles (literally signs), before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were taken, literally living, into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
This is the first mention we've had of the lake of fire. This is the place in the bible that is called hell. There are many words that are translated hell in the English. But the lake of fire is the only place that is called hell.
Revelation 19:12 - His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and we saw that in his vision in Chapter 1 Verses 9 through 18. Flame of fire in scripture always represents judgment.
And on His head were many crowns; Here, the word is DIADEMS, for the royal crown. He is King of all kings, and Lord of all lords. So, He has many crowns.
Revelation 19:14 - And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, and that would be us, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 - And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron:
We see this in Psalm 2:8-9. He's going to rule them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
What the bible is now picturing for us is actually what is being prepared right now, a large wine vat, and the grapes of wrath are being put into this vat. And what they used to do is they would get in with their feet and trample on the grapes until the juice comes out.
And so, our time is being depicted as a time when you're throwing the grapes in the vat, and when the vat is full, the Lord Himself will come and trample down the winepress with the fierceness of His wrath.
Revelation 19:11 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He does judge and make war. In other words, the emphasis is that everything the Lord does is in righteousness. He makes war, and He judges, and it's all righteous.
Please notice, because this is what I alluded to back in Chapter 6 Verses 1 and 2 at the breaking of the first seal, because remember there was a white horse that came out, and the one sitting upon it had a bow in his hand. And he went out to conquer those upon the earth.
And for many years, scholars believed that was a picture of the second coming of Christ. But I showed you how it lines up in Mark Chapter 13. The first four phases that Jesus gave was the revelation of the false messiahs.
The red horse was the wars and rumors of wars. The black horse was the famine. And the pale green horse was death, either by the beasts of the land, or people, or earthquakes, or various events.
That person back in Revelation 6:1-2, he came on a white horse, but he had a bow. He didn't have a sword. His crown was a STEPHANOS, a wreath, where the Lord here, He's going to have DIADEMS, not one, but many.
So, the white horses match, but everything else is different. And that's why Revelation 6:1-2 is not the revelation of Christ at His second coming. This here is the second coming. That was the representation of the false messiah.
Here Christ comes on a white horse. And He was called faithful and true. And in righteousness He does judge and make war.
Revelation 19:4 - And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God who sat upon the throne, saying, Amen; Again, that's from the Hebrew which means so be it. They said Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:6 - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
The Greek word for omnipotent (PANTOKRATOR) means the almighty. He reigns!
Revelation 19:8 - And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
The word white is the word LAMPROS which means bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So, we as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there!
Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
The entire message of the Tanak (the Old Testament), and the entire message of the New Testament is the testimony of Jesus Christ. The book of Revelation is part of the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is all part of the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is not centered on us. Every message and every teaching is centered on Jesus Christ.
When we are taught from the New Testament, we're taught because we belong to Christ. So, my testimony should give honor to His testimony to who He is. And that's the whole message of scripture.
Revelation 19:1 - And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
And after these things I heard a voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia;
There is no Greek word for the word Hallelujah. It is a transliteration in Greek for the Hebrew that means praise YAH, HALLELU, and then YAH, which is God's name in the Old Testament, YAHWEH.
It is interesting that the Greek just transliterates the Hebrew, and we just transliterate it from the Greek. But it means give praise or worship to YAH.
Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Revelation 19:2 - For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
For true and righteous are His judgments:
What an attitude now from before when believers were wanting to know where's the victory?
True and righteous are His judgments. And I emphasize to you that as we move through the various stages of judgment, that sometimes a fourth, or a third of people or things were destroyed at various times in the judgment period.
It would seem to some that God was inflicting a slow death just to make them be tormented. But in reality, as I pointed out to you in these different sections, God was only destroying a few so that it would give the rest of the people a chance to repent.
Even during the Tribulation Period, there's going to be a time when God is going to allow people to repent, but John repeats over and over again, they refuse to repent of all of their evil, and all of their wickedness, so that in the end when it is all destroyed, we can say for true and righteous are His judgments!
For He has judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and has avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
To answer your questions, the first one being, "The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture?"
My answer would be yes. First of all, the phrase "shall be caught up" is translated from the Greek word HARPADZO, which means to be caught up, to be snatched up by force, to be seized. The Latin translation of the same Greek word is RAPTUS, which is where the word rapture comes from. So, whether we call it the rapture, or the HARPADZO, or caught up, it is all talking about the same thing.
HARPAGESOMETHA.
This "caught up" is when the dead in Christ are risen first, and then the living believers (church) together meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Jesus. At Jesus' second coming, He comes all the way down to the ground and the church comes with Him. Now, when we go to Revelation 19:8, we see that we are with Christ in heaven and we are clothed in white, fine linen. This is taking place in heaven before the second coming of Christ.
A few verses later in Revelation 19:14, it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." The armies will be us, the church. We come back with Christ at His second coming.
In Revelation 3:10, Jesus says, "Because you kept the Word of My endurance, I also will keep you from out of the hour of the trial, the one being about to come upon the whole inhabited world in order to try the ones dwelling upon the earth." This also fits perfectly with Daniel 12:1.
This is Jesus' promise to His people who are faithful. He has promised that they will not go through the tribulation and trial that is to come upon the whole earth.
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
i want to ask for prayer that the Lord will help me to be wise this Holy Weekend. i know it's not right to call a bunch of people to my battles, like Gideon did in Judges 7.
verse 2 says:
"The Lord God said to Gideon:
You have too many people, so I can't let you defeat the Midianites.
If I did, you might think you had won without my help."
but I'm managing to look at my life path and listen to my preacher Sarah's advice. I've been following her advice to the letter.
i no longer want to defraud God's Word.
Revelation 19:13 is what He makes me see as a Good Shepherd are my iniquities
1 Timothy 6:12 - Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
The word fight as a command is the word AGONIDZO, agonize, the good agony of faith. It doesn't mean that in your human effort, you're going out to conquer the world or fight for the things of Christ in the world. It's an athletic term. It's what athletes go through in their discipline, their focus, and in their purpose. They agonize through the agony of being an athlete.
1 Timothy 6:16 - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
In Verses 15 and 16, we have the creed concerning Christ. Verses 12 to 14 was the commands concerning our confession. This is the creed concerning Christ. He says Timothy, here's what you confessed. Hold to it. The first one is: who shall show the blessed and only Potentate. That's Jesus Christ. Potentate means power.
Secondly, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. That's all one phrase for God. It's a phrase for Jesus. Jesus is called King of kings, and Lord of lords in Revelation 17:14 and in Revelation 19:16. He is the only blessed, and the only power. He is the King of kings, and Lord of lords.
Thirdly, the only one that has immortality.
Fourthly, He is dwelling in the light, constantly, this light which no man can approach; and whom no man has seen, nor can see:
His invisibility is the fifth thing. To whom be the honor and the glory, or literally strength, KRATOS. Whenever a writer uses the word KRATOS to describe power, and there's different words for power, DUNAMIS is where we get our word dynamite, and that's the normal word for power. But KRATOS means grip. It shows somebody who's in control. The whole universe is in the grip of Christ. So, to Him be the honor. To Him be the power, the grip, forever!
(Part 1):
Is Revelation 6:2 referring to the Second Coming of Christ?
In Revelation 19:11-15, we are given the vision of the second coming of Christ. The Key Verses are Psalm 45:3-4, Psalm 96:13, and Isaiah 11:4.
In Revelation Chapter 19, we see that when Christ returns at His Second Coming, He will be riding a white horse. Chapter 19 also tells us that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS.
If we go back to Revelation 6:2, we also see a white horse. Some see "white horse", and they connect this with the white horse in Revelation Chapter 19 and believe this is Jesus riding this horse in both places, Chapters 6 and 19. But is the rider the same in both places?
In Chapter 19, I do believe that the rider on the white horse is Jesus. But in Chapter 6, the rider is not referring to Jesus. It is the representation of the antichrist, the false messiah who will come.
The only thing the same in both places is the white horse and this can mislead us into thinking this is Jesus because we know He will return on a white horse. But in Chapter 6, it is not Jesus. I say this because of the differences I see between Chapters 6 and 19. I will share these differences in a second post as I am unable to fit this into a single post.
(Part 2):
Here are the differences I see that cause me to come to this conclusion:
In Chapter 6, this one who is sitting on a white horse has a bow (TOXON). In Revelation Chapter 19, Christ has a sword (RHOMPHAIA), not a bow. In Chapter 6, it says a crown (Singular) was given to this one. And the word for crown in Chapter 6 is STEPHANOS. That's the wreath that is given to the victors at the coliseum games. This is a STEPHANOS. It is not the crown Christ will be wearing. Jesus will not be wearing a wreath. He will be wearing a royal crown, a DIADEM.
In Revelation Chapter 19, it says that when Christ comes at His second coming, He will be wearing MANY CROWNS, and the word for crown is DIADEM, the royal crown. It is not a STEPHANOS, the wreath that the false messiah will be wearing.
In Chapter 6, it says this one will come out conquering and to conquer. And that's the antichrist taking over the one world system. Also, another point to make, it is the Lamb that's opening the seal. He's not coming back yet, not until Revelation Chapter 19.
So, this one riding on a white horse in Revelation 6:2 with a bow in his hand, he was given a crown, a STEPHANOS which is a wreath, not a DIADEM, the royal crown that Christ will be wearing. And he went out to conquer. This is the antichrist. This is the false messiah that Jesus said would come first.
Hopefully this might be helpful to some. I was one who used to believe that the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 was Jesus. But after comparing the differences using the original text, I no longer see these two places referring to the Second Coming of Christ, but one referring to the false Messiah ( Revelation 6:2), and the other ( Revelation 19:11-15) referring to our Savior Jesus Christ coming wearing a royal crown and with a sword. Not a wreath, not a bow!
Blessings in Christ Jesus!
Those who went against God?
If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
I hope this helps.
GB.
First, on reigning with Christ: I agree Revelation 2:26-27 promises ruling authority to overcomers at Thyatira, and Revelation 20:4 shows martyrs from "all nations" sharing in Christ's rule. The question is not whether redeemed people reign, but who reigns where within God's revealed programs. Paul discloses a "one new man" ( Eph 2:15) called the Body of Christ, blessed "in heavenly places" and seated there now ( Eph 1:3; 2:6). Israel, by contrast, is promised an earthly kingdom under Messiah ( Isa 2:1-4; Jer 23:5-6; Matt 19:28; Acts 1:6; 3:19-21). Both realms are under the same Lord, but the stewardships and destinations differ ( 2 Tim 2:12; 1 Cor 6:2-3).
That leads to the Bride question. Dispensationally, the Body of Christ is not the Bride of Christ. In Scripture, bridal/marriage language is consistently tied to Israel and Zion:
"Thy Maker is thine husband" ( Isa 54:5).
"I will betroth thee unto me for ever" ( Hos 2:19-20).
"As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee" ( Isa 62:4-5).
In Revelation the identification becomes explicit: "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wifeand he shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem" ( Rev 21:9-10). The city bears Israel's fingerprints-twelve tribes on its gates and the twelve apostles on its foundations ( Rev 21:12-14). Moreover, the wife in Revelation 19:7-8 is arrayed in "fine linenthe righteous acts of saints," fitting the works-tested, kingdom saints who endure (cf. Matt 24:13; Rev 14:12), not the grace-standing, already-perfected righteousness imputed to the Body ( Rom 3:21-26; Phil 3:9).
see pg2
I agree, when Jesus returns, it will not be a secret, as all the Scriptures proclaim, it will be with the sound of the trumpet, the last trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 11:15. As you said, every eye shall see Him coming in the clouds, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 19:11-16.
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection, will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6. Scripture does not say Jesus goes back to heaven. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul is comforting them that those who are asleep/dead in Christ would not be left out of the return of Christ and the resurrection. Nowhere in these verses does it say we are taken to heaven.
If we read and study Scriptures with preconceived assumptions, it fogs the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 is about the return of Jesus and our gathering together unto Him on earth, at His coming. It says do not let man deceive you because Jesus will not return until two things happen. The falling away/apostasy, and the man of sin is revealed.
Revelation 19:20 is where the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. In Revelation 17:14, they are the ones in the first resurrection who are in the battle of Armageddon with Jesus, and in Revelation 20:4 are the ones in the first resurrection who are being judged at the judgment seat of Christ, here on earth.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
How much time does Scripture give the beast? In Revelation 13, the beast, whom people call the antichrist, from the time he rises, he is only given 3.5 years, not 7 years, Revelation 13:5. This is after the war in heaven where Michael and his angels overcome and cast Satan and his angels down to earth, this is when the restraints are lifted, not the removal of the Church.
The beast is only given 42 months, which is 3.5 years, to make war against the saints and to overcome them, Revelation 13:7. If the church is removed, whom will he make war against? The resurrection of the dead is divided into two:
The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection and will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6.
Resurrection for the rest of the dead, which is the second resurrection, and will happen after the 1000 years of Christ's reign, Revelation 20:7-15.
The ones in the first resurrection will reign with Christ, where, Daniel 7:27, 2 Timothy 2:12 Revelation 20:6, Revelation 5:9-10. When Jesus returns, He does not go back to heaven.
We see in Revelation 20:4 thrones, and judgment was given to those in the first resurrection. This is on earth, and we see those who were beheaded and did not take the mark or worship the beast, and these lived and reigned with Christ on earth for the 1000 years.
last trumpet is the seventh trumpet, the same trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Jesus is coming to establish His kingdom on this earth.
It should be understood that the Bible clearly states that there are two comings of Jesus.
He came to die for the sins of mankind: this has been fulfilled.
Second Coming: coming to establish the kingdom of God/heaven. This is yet to happen. The resurrection of the righteous dead only happens at the second coming of Christ.
See part 3.
Thank you, this is my understanding.
I understand many believe in the rapture, some say pre, mid, or post. In all three views, we are taken to heaven. I have not found any Scripture that explicitly states we are taken to heaven; it is an assumption, and it must be read where it is not written. I don't see the bride mentioned in the rapture doctrine; that's another discussion.
I see the coming of Jesus not as a secret event, but as one the world will witness. This is supported by Scripture: Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and Revelation 19:11-16. This event occurs after the seventh angel sounds the last trumpet, Revelation 11:15. Then, we see the angel summoning the birds for the battle of Armageddon.
The ones in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4-6, will be with Jesus during the battle, Revelation 17:12-14. Afterward, we observe the judgment of those in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4.
A thought, over the past nearly 2000 years, believers in Christ, the body of Christ, the Church have faced beheading, burning at the stake, being placed on poles soaked in oil, lit as lamps along roads, among other horrible deaths. Why would the last of the Church be spared? We have been told we will face much tribulation, and if we endure, Matthew 24:9-13. The Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.
God bless,
RLW
If your "battle" is with believing that Jesus is God, may I suggest the following scriptures for your consideration:
Genesis 1:1 along with John 1:1-3, Revelation 19:13, Colossians 1:15-17, Matthew 1:23, John 10:30, John 14:9, Mark 2:5-7, John 8:58, John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7, Colossians 2:9, 1 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1, Revelation 1:8, John 5:18, 1 John 5:20, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, Acts 10:25-26, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:3, Revelation 22:13, Micah 5:2, John 17:5, John 1:14. There are more, but these should suffice.
You mention that "Christians say that there is no separation between Christ and God," and that the bible shows otherwise. Jesus said I and my Father are one, and He also said that if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. This may not mean anything to you, but in the book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as the APOUGASMA (the out beam) of God's glory, God projecting Himself through the time/space factor in the person of Christ. Jesus Christ, being God, was never separated from the source. This is why Jesus can say if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.
The best example I can give would be taking a flashlight in a dark room and shining it on a wall. The flashlight is the source, and the light is projected on the wall from the source. There is no separation unless the flashlight is turned off. Now, imagine the flashlight being God, and the light shining on the wall is Jesus, again, no separation. Jesus is said to be the true light which came down from heaven, the APOUGASMA of God.
If you are sincerely struggling with the deity of Jesus Christ (Him being God), I hope these scriptures I've provided might help. Also, if you would like, I can share my personal understanding on Matthew 26:39 and Luke 22:42 and why Christ would ask this.
If I may ask, are you a Christian? If so, who do you say Jesus is?
That could be true however there is a unique difference in the way Christ is presented to Lordship over the Church and Lordship in the Kingdom here on earth.
Christ Lordship is over our hearts without any written articles on tablets.
In the Kingdom Christ is ruling with a rod of iron.
In Revelation 12:5 we see the Israel presented as the woman and her children who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ.
The Church is never identified as the nations or inhabitants of the earth.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 seems to fit Christ ruling here on earth with a rod of iron as presented in other scriptures and that is a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
Other passages;
Revelation 2:27.
Revelation 19:15.
Isaiah 65:16-25 has much to say about this economy.
This echoes Psalms 2:6-9.
"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Scripture says the Church shall reign with Christ.
Revelation 20:6.
2 Timothy 2:12.
Revelation 5:10.
Luke 22:28-30.
The reigning is not a present reality but a future hope for believers.
Blessings.
In a previous comment, you emphasized the importance of properly considering a matter before speaking, so as not to appear as "fools." I wonder if perhaps the claim that Christ will reign with the saints on earth was rebutted too quickly, without sufficient consideration.
The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 14:2-3 are described as the firstfruits of those saved in Israel after the rapture, as verse 14 clarifies. However, this does not imply that Christ will not return to earth with them. They will return together with all who have inherited salvation, as seen in Revelation 21:1-3.
It is also important to note that the New Jerusalem, symbolically represented as the Bride, represents the spiritual Church or body of Christ. This is supported in Hebrews 12:22, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 2:19-22, 1 Peter 2:5, and 1 Corinthians 3:9. Only those who have received the Spirit of Christ are considered part of the Church of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9).
This Church will return to earth and reign with Christ for a thousand years, as indicated in Revelation 20:4, Revelation 12:5, and Revelation 19:15.
As Elihu said in Job 34:22: "If you have understanding, hear this; listen to the voice of my words."
Please note that my words are not intended as insults or to cause offense, for that would not reflect the love that the Lord Jesus expects from us. Rather, my intention is to encourage careful consideration of matters from a biblical perspective, rather than relying solely on worldly opinion. As the Lord Jesus said, many teach the traditions of men as doctrine, and as Paul says, we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth.
(Part 1):
Brother, my memory could be failing me, but I thought you didn't believe in a rapture so I was sort of taken aback by your statement saying, "The Rapture of the Church and the Second Coming of Christ must be the same event."
I agree that there will be angels coming with the power of God, and they will accompany Christ when He comes back to the earth at His second coming. The scriptures you provided show that, although I'm not sure how Matthew 26:53 fits in there. However, I'm not sure if angels accompanying Christ would rule out the church from coming with Him also.
We have the description of the events of the Second Coming of Christ beginning at Revelation 19:1 and ending at Revelation 22:5. In Chapter 19, we see a marriage feast taking place. Revelation 19:7 says, Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
We know who the Lamb is. But who's His wife that is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white? I say it is the church. We are His bride. Verse 8 says that she (His bride) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Whoever it is, we are told in Verse 14 that the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. If you are saying that the armies mentioned in Revelation 19:14 are angels, why would they be clothed in fine linen white and clean, the same apparel as the bride in in Revelation 19:8?
We know that angels will be accompanying Christ, but are these angels the ones who are clothed in fine linen, white and clean, or is it the bride that we see up in Verses 7 and 8? Whoever it is, they will be the ones coming with Him and they are the armies we see in Verse 14.
(Part 2):
I see Revelation 19:8 as describing the bride of Christ (the church). And the bride is given fine linen to wear, the same attire spoken of in Verse 14. So, my understanding is that the armies (emphasis on plural) in Verse 14 consists of both angels and saints, with the saints being the ones arrayed in fine linen.
Zechariah 14:5 indicates that when the Lord comes, all the saints will come with Him. In Matthew 24:31, which you referenced, the elect being gathered are the Jews, not the church.
To answer your question asking who they are in Revelation 20:4-6, I would say that they are the ones who were still here after the rapture, and during the tribulation they were persuaded by the angelic preaching of the gospel and the gospel being preached by the 144,000 not to take the mark of the beast. They will be beheaded for not worshipping the beast or taking the mark.
From what I see, Revelation 20:4-6 is not talking about the church. There will be some who will turn to Christ during the tribulation period, and they will be saved.
Anyways, I'm sure we are once again in disagreement on this subject, but it is still nice to be able to share our understanding with each other. May the Lord continue to keep us until the day of redemption, and may He continue to give us a hunger for His word in order that we might grow in His grace and knowledge.
God Bless!!!
Revelation is difficult to discuss briefly, and I may have stumbled.
I tried to explain that Revelation isn't arranged in order like other books in the Bible, and I didn't do a good job. Jesus doesn't return until the seventh trumpet, the last trump, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Revelation 10:7.
I'm sorry, but I don't know much about Premillennialism, Amillennialism, or Postmillennialism. I haven't studied them, and I don't care for titles.
My understanding is that Jesus returns in Revelation 19:11-16, and the saints are resurrected, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 20:4-6.
This is when the great tribulation ends, and God's wrath is poured out, Revelation 15:7, Revelation 16:1-17.
Next comes the battle of Armageddon, Revelation 19:17-21 which those in the first resurrection will participate, Revelation 17:14. Their Judgement is shown in Revelation 20:4. The beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, and those who worshiped the beast and had the mark are either cast in then or during the white throne judgment, but their verdict was already given, Revelation 14:9-10.
Then the kingdom will be established, and there will be people left in the nations whom Satan, after he is released, will deceive.
The land of Israel will be restored, Ezekiel 11:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, and members of the tribes of Israel that will be gathered from all the nations will inhabit that land during the 1000 years, Jeremiah 29:14. Other nations will, as seen in Zechariah 14:16-20, witness Jesus ruling with a rod of iron; there are other Scriptures about this time.
I hope this makes things clearer.
God bless,
RLW
(Part 2):
But the seventh trumpet is not the last trumpet. It's the seventh trumpet! It's the last of the seven, but this one is specifically the last trumpet for the call. It's the same trumpet mentioned in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 about the rapture because he says, "For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised."
This trumpet is not an actual trumpet. In the Hebrew, it's the word Shofar. It is a ram's horn. They blow them even in Israel today. It's played for the gathering of the armies. It's sounded from the top of the temples for the priests to come do their daily duties at the temple.
What I find interesting with this is that in Revelation 19:14, it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."
Now, I believe that Revelation 19:14 is speaking of the Second Coming. But who else could these armies be besides the church that will come back with Christ? At the beginning of this chapter, in Revelation 19:1, it speaks about a "great voice of much people in heaven," and they are giving praise to the Lord. This is before we even get to the Second Coming in Verse 14. Who are these "much people"?
Whoever they are, they are described as being at a marriage supper taking place in Heaven prior to the Second Coming, and they are also arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So, are these armies saints who will come with Jesus when He returns?
So, this shofar will sound, the dead shall be raised incorruptible, not in their corruptible body, but a new body incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 "Can you tell me how you interpret the events after the tribulation period, on into the Millennium, when Satan is chained and when he is loosed?"
I will do my best to show my understanding of your questions. My study is simple, and I rely on the Bible for interpretation. I use Word Search, a concordance, and my Bible provides other verses that cross-reference a word or phrase throughout Scripture.
The book of Revelation is not in chronological order. We see in Revelation 1:7, that when He comes in the clouds, every eye will see Him. Revelation 6:12-17 shows a vision given to John after the Sixth Seal, revealing the signs of Jesus' coming. Cross-references include Joel 2:10-11, 30-31, Matthew 24, and others.
In Revelation 11:15-19, the seventh trumpet, or the last trumpet, signals the coming of Jesus, ending the tribulation and beginning God's wrath. Revelation 14 combines visions that are not in order; we see Jesus standing on Mount Zion with the 144000, which would occur after Revelation 19:11-16. We know this because, when He returns, His feet will land on the Mount of Olives, as described in Zechariah 14:4.
Revelation 14:6-7 describes the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, which must occur near the end of the tribulation. The announcement of Babylon's fall is seen in chapters 17 and 18. Revelation 14:9-11 states the fate of those who worship the beast, take its mark, and follow the beast and the false prophet. This is carried out in Revelation 19:20-21.
Revelation 14:12-13 declares, "Blessed are those who die in the Lord from henceforth," even as the tribulation continues. My understanding of Revelation 14:14-16, which covers the harvest and the first resurrection, is supported by passages like Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6, and Matthew 24:29-31. Revelation 14:17-20 describes the battle of Armageddon, with related references in Revelation 19:17-21, Ezekiel 39:17-21, and Luke 17:37.
See Part 2
My understanding of the coming of Jesus, the first resurrection, and the gathering of saints to Him, which I see as a one-time event. I understand many may disagree, but I feel in my heart that the teaching of the rapture as a separate event may be incorrect. We must understand that in Revelation, the events recorded in the book are not a linear timeline.
Jesus returns only once, which is what Paul warns about. In 2 Timothy 2:16-18, I believe Paul is addressing the same issue he talks about in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. Paul says, Let no man deceive you by any means, and he is speaking about the coming of the Lord. He states that that day will not come unless there is a falling away first, meaning apostasy or a turning away from faith, and the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, which signifies destruction.
Both of these events must happen before Jesus returns. Just as back then, false teachings about the timing and details of Jesus' return, as I feel the idea of a separate rapture, many are expecting something that is not going to happen, and when it becomes evident to those still here, that moment will lead to the falling away. I feel great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.
When Jesus returns, we observe the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, and the judgment of those in the first resurrection in Revelation 19:11 through Revelation 20:4-6. This judgment includes those who did not worship the beast or take his mark. This proves it is after the great tribulation. Those who fought with Jesus in this battle are the chosen and faithful, Revelation 17:14. These are the ones in the first resurrection; they will reign with Jesus on earth, not in heaven.
Thank you, brother, for this discussion that I feel is very important and will continue to study. It is up to each of us to pray in search of the truth.
God bless,
RLW
And of course Paul writes in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". To assure the believers in that Church, Paul writes that the Day of Christ's appearing and our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, will only come after a falling away & the revelation of the Anti-Christ. After this happens, Christ appears & we are gathered (the Rapture & Resurrection of 1 Thessalonians chap 4?) unto Him. Then the Great Tribulation begins, as God's Wrath is displayed first in its infancy (the removing of His Restrainer), then with increasing suffering, culminating in Matthew 24:29,30.
Your reference to Revelation 12:12 has bearing on the whole chapter and I perceive we don't understand it the same way and it would be too long to exegete here. Then to Revelation 19:7-9, comparing with Revelation 21:9-11. I can see the connection that the Lamb's wife is the New Jerusalem as stated here, but when we read Revelation 19:7-9, we see that 'she (the New Jerusalem?) hath made herself ready; she would be arrayed in fine white linen which is the righteousness of the saints (can a city or a people be so arrayed?); and there is to be a marriage supper (with a city?)'. This can be quite confusing if one is to believe that Jesus is marrying a city. Or maybe, there are two references: of a city & the Church represented together in marriage. I can't tell. To Page 3.
What is the Rapture? It is a doctrine that began in the 1800s and is widely accepted today. The belief in it is so strong that many see it as a promise, a guarantee, that the Church will be taken to heaven and escape the great tribulation, which is often confused with the wrath of God. But is it true or just a deception? Isn't the rapture a resurrection? We see there are only two resurrections, in Revelation 20:6 and Revelation 20:12-13, separated by a thousand years.
Nowhere is the Church shown in heaven; Revelation 19:7-9 is not about the Church. It describes the bride of Christ adorned with the righteousness of the saints. The marriage and the marriage supper will not occur until Revelation 21:1-2, which takes place after the new heaven and new earth. The angel shows John the bride, the Lamb's wife, who is not the Church, as stated in Revelation 21:9-11.
We must distinguish between the great tribulation and the wrath of God; they are not the same. Tribulation refers to the suffering and persecution faced by believers. We see in Revelation 12:12, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has come down to you, having great wrath. This is when he gives power to the beast, and the great tribulation begins. The short time Satan believed he had was 3.5 years, not seven. Revelation 13:5 mentions 42 months, which is 1260 days, or 3.5 years. The prophecy in Daniel 9 is all about the Messiah, Jesus, and the time Israel has.
We do not see the wrath of God and the Lamb until after the sixth seal, in Revelation 6:12-17. This is when Jesus returns to earth, the earth is round, and when Jesus returns, it will be as in Mathew 24:29-31. We will then meet Him in the air, and we all come down together.
God bless,
RLW
So to some pertinent portions from the Word:
a) Revelation 3:10 (to the Philadelphian Church). This refers to the final seven year tribulation period in which the antichrist will be allowed to deceive the world ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12). Believers can have hope that should this final period come to pass in their lifetimes, they will be kept from having to face God's wrath during the tribulation period; and this Great Tribulation as Jesus spoke about (in Matthew 24:21-31) is the Day of God's Wrath, from which the Church is to be kept from. Even in Zephaniah 2:3, a little glimpse is given of those who will be "hid in the day of the LORD's ANGER".
b) 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10: believers are not appointed to bear God's Wrath but to receive His salvation from it. While it is true that God's wrath is most fully poured out in the sentencing of unbelievers to hell, Revelation 6:15-17 makes it clear that God's wrath is also being poured out upon the earth during the tribulation period (for that is what it means) and believers will not be a part of that. However, those who come to faith during the tribulation will have to suffer the effects of God's wrath, not having received the promise of being kept from the hour of trial. But those days will be cut short for His Elect's sake ( Matthew 24:22).
c) Revelation 19:7-9. The Church is already in Heaven with the Lord, clothed & prepared for the marriage of the Lamb. It is following this that Jesus is seen with the armies of heaven coming to earth to lie waste the armies of the earth and to cast the beast and false prophet into the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 19:11-21). Thus, the church must have already been raptured and taken to heaven before Jesus comes the second time. To Page 3.
I agree that the Church, the Body of Christ, is not the bride; I do not agree that the bride metaphor is rooted in prophecy and tied to Israel. The New Jerusalem is the bride that is dressed in fine linen, pure and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints; Revelation 19:6-8. This is the city that Abraham looked for, Hebrews 11:8-10.
This bride, the New Jerusalem, will not descend until everything is fulfilled and all is made new. Revelation 21:1-3. Then, the marriage and the feast will mark the beginning of our eternity on the new earth with God and Jesus.
Revelation 19:7-9: Let us be glad, rejoice, and honor Him: for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he saith unto me, "These are the true sayings of God."
I also disagree with the teaching of the catching away or the rapture as being carried to heaven. You mention 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, but where does it say we are taken to heaven? This passage describes Jesus returning to earth at the last trump, Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, and Revelation 19:11-16.
God bless,
RLW
Regarding the return of Jesus, I only see in Scripture that He returns once. As seen in 1 Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28, John 14:3, Acts 1:11, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Hebrews 9:28, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 19:11-21, through Revelation 20:1-6, is the same event when Jesus returns, and it occurs after the tribulation of the beast. My understanding is that there is only one Day of the Lord, and that is when Jesus returns.
Regarding the Messiah, I have never asked a Jew about their understanding of it. What I have previously read about Jewish faith is that one day a charismatic Jewish leader, the anointed of God, a man with the characteristics of God, a direct descendant of the Davidic line, will gather Jews from around the world, and bring them back to the Land of Israel and restore the kingdom ridding them of all oppressors.
That was what they were looking for during the time Jesus was here during His 3.5-year ministry, a human conqueror. The disciples were looking for Him to set up the kingdom; they even asked Him after He was resurrected, Acts 1:6-7. They were looking for what we see will happen in the millennium when Jesus returns to earth.
It was mainly the leaders of Jerusalem who did not see or did not hear, which caused blindness in part to happen to Israel, who rejected Jesus; many accepted Jesus as the Messiah while He was here. The leaders of Jerusalem played a prominent role in turning the crowds against Jesus, and it was the nation of Israel as a whole that rejected Him. And today, most Jews do not believe the Messiah has come.
I know we may not agree, but I hope I answered your question.
God bless,
RLW
Revelation 19:16 - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Vesture would be the TZITZIT'S, the prayer shawl that the Jews wear. It will say KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
In Revelation 19:17-18, we have the vision of the supper of God. This is not the supper of the Lamb. This is the supper of God, a little different.
Revelation 19:18 - That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
It's the invitation for the birds to come and feast on dead bodies that will be the result of Christ slaying the nations. In Matthew 24:27-28, Jesus said that wherever the corpse is, the vultures will gather together.
Some have theorized about that for years. Well, here's its fulfillment right here. Jesus said in the end analysis, wherever the vultures are, that's where the dead bodies will be. And that will be the end result of the world and life as we know it.
The vision of the battle of Armageddon is given to us in Verses 19 to 21.
Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that worked miracles (literally signs), before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were taken, literally living, into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
This is the first mention we've had of the lake of fire. This is the place in the bible that is called hell. There are many words that are translated hell in the English. But the lake of fire is the only place that is called hell.
Revelation 19:12 - His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and we saw that in his vision in Chapter 1 Verses 9 through 18. Flame of fire in scripture always represents judgment.
And on His head were many crowns; Here, the word is DIADEMS, for the royal crown. He is King of all kings, and Lord of all lords. So, He has many crowns.
Revelation 19:14 - And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, and that would be us, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 - And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron:
We see this in Psalm 2:8-9. He's going to rule them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
What the bible is now picturing for us is actually what is being prepared right now, a large wine vat, and the grapes of wrath are being put into this vat. And what they used to do is they would get in with their feet and trample on the grapes until the juice comes out.
And so, our time is being depicted as a time when you're throwing the grapes in the vat, and when the vat is full, the Lord Himself will come and trample down the winepress with the fierceness of His wrath.
Revelation 19:11 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He does judge and make war. In other words, the emphasis is that everything the Lord does is in righteousness. He makes war, and He judges, and it's all righteous.
Please notice, because this is what I alluded to back in Chapter 6 Verses 1 and 2 at the breaking of the first seal, because remember there was a white horse that came out, and the one sitting upon it had a bow in his hand. And he went out to conquer those upon the earth.
And for many years, scholars believed that was a picture of the second coming of Christ. But I showed you how it lines up in Mark Chapter 13. The first four phases that Jesus gave was the revelation of the false messiahs.
The red horse was the wars and rumors of wars. The black horse was the famine. And the pale green horse was death, either by the beasts of the land, or people, or earthquakes, or various events.
That person back in Revelation 6:1-2, he came on a white horse, but he had a bow. He didn't have a sword. His crown was a STEPHANOS, a wreath, where the Lord here, He's going to have DIADEMS, not one, but many.
So, the white horses match, but everything else is different. And that's why Revelation 6:1-2 is not the revelation of Christ at His second coming. This here is the second coming. That was the representation of the false messiah.
Here Christ comes on a white horse. And He was called faithful and true. And in righteousness He does judge and make war.
Revelation 19:4 - And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God who sat upon the throne, saying, Amen; Again, that's from the Hebrew which means so be it. They said Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:6 - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
The Greek word for omnipotent (PANTOKRATOR) means the almighty. He reigns!
Revelation 19:8 - And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white:
The word white is the word LAMPROS which means bright. Clean and white: for fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So, we as His bride, we will be clothed in white, fine linen. And notice that this is all taking place in heaven. We are there!
Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
The entire message of the Tanak (the Old Testament), and the entire message of the New Testament is the testimony of Jesus Christ. The book of Revelation is part of the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is all part of the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is not centered on us. Every message and every teaching is centered on Jesus Christ.
When we are taught from the New Testament, we're taught because we belong to Christ. So, my testimony should give honor to His testimony to who He is. And that's the whole message of scripture.
Revelation 19:1 - And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
And after these things I heard a voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia;
There is no Greek word for the word Hallelujah. It is a transliteration in Greek for the Hebrew that means praise YAH, HALLELU, and then YAH, which is God's name in the Old Testament, YAHWEH.
It is interesting that the Greek just transliterates the Hebrew, and we just transliterate it from the Greek. But it means give praise or worship to YAH.
Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Revelation 19:2 - For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
For true and righteous are His judgments:
What an attitude now from before when believers were wanting to know where's the victory?
True and righteous are His judgments. And I emphasize to you that as we move through the various stages of judgment, that sometimes a fourth, or a third of people or things were destroyed at various times in the judgment period.
It would seem to some that God was inflicting a slow death just to make them be tormented. But in reality, as I pointed out to you in these different sections, God was only destroying a few so that it would give the rest of the people a chance to repent.
Even during the Tribulation Period, there's going to be a time when God is going to allow people to repent, but John repeats over and over again, they refuse to repent of all of their evil, and all of their wickedness, so that in the end when it is all destroyed, we can say for true and righteous are His judgments!
For He has judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and has avenged the blood of His servants at her hand.
(Part 2):
To answer your questions, the first one being, "The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture?"
My answer would be yes. First of all, the phrase "shall be caught up" is translated from the Greek word HARPADZO, which means to be caught up, to be snatched up by force, to be seized. The Latin translation of the same Greek word is RAPTUS, which is where the word rapture comes from. So, whether we call it the rapture, or the HARPADZO, or caught up, it is all talking about the same thing.
HARPAGESOMETHA.
This "caught up" is when the dead in Christ are risen first, and then the living believers (church) together meet the Lord in the air. This is not the second coming of Jesus. At Jesus' second coming, He comes all the way down to the ground and the church comes with Him. Now, when we go to Revelation 19:8, we see that we are with Christ in heaven and we are clothed in white, fine linen. This is taking place in heaven before the second coming of Christ.
A few verses later in Revelation 19:14, it says, "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." The armies will be us, the church. We come back with Christ at His second coming.
In Revelation 3:10, Jesus says, "Because you kept the Word of My endurance, I also will keep you from out of the hour of the trial, the one being about to come upon the whole inhabited world in order to try the ones dwelling upon the earth." This also fits perfectly with Daniel 12:1.
This is Jesus' promise to His people who are faithful. He has promised that they will not go through the tribulation and trial that is to come upon the whole earth.
Part 1
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
See part 2
verse 2 says:
"The Lord God said to Gideon:
You have too many people, so I can't let you defeat the Midianites.
If I did, you might think you had won without my help."
but I'm managing to look at my life path and listen to my preacher Sarah's advice. I've been following her advice to the letter.
i no longer want to defraud God's Word.
Revelation 19:13 is what He makes me see as a Good Shepherd are my iniquities
1 Timothy 6:12 - Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
The word fight as a command is the word AGONIDZO, agonize, the good agony of faith. It doesn't mean that in your human effort, you're going out to conquer the world or fight for the things of Christ in the world. It's an athletic term. It's what athletes go through in their discipline, their focus, and in their purpose. They agonize through the agony of being an athlete.
1 Timothy 6:16 - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
In Verses 15 and 16, we have the creed concerning Christ. Verses 12 to 14 was the commands concerning our confession. This is the creed concerning Christ. He says Timothy, here's what you confessed. Hold to it. The first one is: who shall show the blessed and only Potentate. That's Jesus Christ. Potentate means power.
Secondly, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. That's all one phrase for God. It's a phrase for Jesus. Jesus is called King of kings, and Lord of lords in Revelation 17:14 and in Revelation 19:16. He is the only blessed, and the only power. He is the King of kings, and Lord of lords.
Thirdly, the only one that has immortality.
Fourthly, He is dwelling in the light, constantly, this light which no man can approach; and whom no man has seen, nor can see:
His invisibility is the fifth thing. To whom be the honor and the glory, or literally strength, KRATOS. Whenever a writer uses the word KRATOS to describe power, and there's different words for power, DUNAMIS is where we get our word dynamite, and that's the normal word for power. But KRATOS means grip. It shows somebody who's in control. The whole universe is in the grip of Christ. So, to Him be the honor. To Him be the power, the grip, forever!