Revelation
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By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
I also believe this quote by Peter in 1 Peter 3:19-20 doesn't say Christ went into Hell and preached to the Spirits in prison.
I believe verse 20 tells us WHEN he preached to those in prison.
(Verse 20)
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
I believe the building of the ark, the material used and the ark itself presents a type in the work of Christ and Christ himself.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I also believe Ephesians 4:8-9 has to be interpreted separate from 1 Peter.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
I believe this passage of scripture is saying Jesus rose victorious from the grave. He paid the price for the sin of the world through His sacrificial death and Resurrection, and broke the power of sin, Satan, death, and hell.
I believe at this point those saved in the Old Testament leaves Abraham's bosom and goes to be with the Lord.
And so do we when we die.
Also, I believe Satan will be bound by a great Angel, not the Lord. That is yet future. Revelation 20:1-2.
The conditions in Revelation 20:3-5 hasn't happened yet.
Blessings.
Recognizing that God is generous to you is acknowledging God and his presensence in you: YOUR HIS BODY. His word says he causes you to do his pleasure; therefore, you are not acting irresponsible with his generosity, but are acting according to his will.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH in you, both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my spirit IN YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes and ye shall keep my JUDGEMENTS and DO THEM.
Colossians 1:27 .....THIS MYSTERY ..... CHRIST IN YOU ......
You DIED with Christ on the cross, ONLY Christ arose; and you as a joint heir, with Christ of that resurrection, A NEW CREATION.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (YOU, Jema) DIE anymore, for they (YOU, Jema) are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN (YOU, Jema) of the RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he (YOU, Jema) that hath part in the FIRST (you and Christ) RESURRECTION ......
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of God (TRUTH) CANNOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed (the anointing) remaineth in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (TRUTH).
The wages of sin is DEATH: you DIED on the cross, the life IN YOU is CHRIST, your the BODY of CHRIST.
BELIEVE, Christ is CAUSING you to do HIS WILL, for his good pleasure, you ARE NOT irresponsible, but walking in the WILL of God.
God Bless you
Here are some Scriptures for you that speak about Hell (Hades, as opposed to Gehenna or Tartarus): Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18; Luke 10:15, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, Revelation 6:8, Revelation 20:13,14. Yes, Hades is a very real place where the dead pre-Cross went, both the righteous & unrighteous. And they had to go there when they died, for the Work of the Cross was not completed & their salvation was not secured. Only the shed Blood of Jesus could save them & us - they had to wait for it & their release from Hades.
The picture of mankind in Romans 3 (of Jew & Gentile) tells us that all are sinners & that circumcision or the Law gave no profit to the Jew. Only the "faith of Jesus Christ" & by His Redemptive Work can a sinner be justified by faith. I see nothing in this chapter about the "Salvation of OT Believers" - only of 'faith vs the law', for instruction to the Church in Rome, and by extension, believers beyond them in space & time.
The simplicity in Christ Jesus
Gods free gift & get in the book of life!
Romans 3:24-26 & follow Apostle Paul
Period
Revelation 20:11-11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I experienced the Holy Spirt immediately present in me.
I didn't find it in Romans 10:9 bc later found that that was for the Jews back in the transitional period where Apostle Paul is beseeching his brethren!
I didn't find it in 1 Corinthians 15 either bc later found out that was a gospel of Reproof!
But the Holy Spirit entered in after reading Through Romans & at Romans 3:24/25/26 Gods free gift to all AMEN!
Many seriously believe that they are saved but it's all like Pinterest fluffiness.
SO You need to protect your souls I seriously ask you to join the Firstborn school & fellowship absolutely FREE, to escape what is ahead! 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
The mark of the beast will devour many!
And I can say I will meet those who take eternity seriously find out how to get in the book of life!
Revelation 20:11-11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Thanks again for replying.
The reason I periodically presents this is not to divide but to show that some of what we are saying is the same thing.
For instance, There is no marked separation between the Old and New Testament as far as what and whom the blood of Christ covers.
The difference is those sacrifices pointed forward to one who would come and be slain for the sins of the whole world.
We look back at it.
I often emphasize that if we set the salvation topic aside and let the scripture give us its chronological order of the end times scenario we all come up to the 7 year tribulation with the last half being the great tribulation. Most agree up to that point.
But then they argue about the rapture.
Well if we set the rapture argument aside for a second and focus on the tribulation period and what chronologically comes after it using Revelation 20:1-4. we come to the Millennium.
Lets get clarity on what is going on here!
After the tribulation period and after the rapture when the salvation issue has been already settled. Shouldn't we be expecting judgment on the inhabitants of the earth?
If the kingdom here on earth has already started, chronologically the first 1000 years of the kingdom Satan is Chained!
Jesus is literally sitting on David's throne ruling with a rod of iron FROM JERUSALEM, and we too rule and reign with Christ upon the earth.
Isaiah 11:1-12.
Isaiah 60:1-12.
There is 100's of these verses of a kingdom here on earth.
This haven't happened yet, Christ is not reigning here on earth in Jerusalem and we're not reigning with him. ( We are pilgrims and sojourners in a foreign land.)
Furthermore, If this happened at the cross, none of the conditions mentioned in the OT concerning the kingdom has been met.
And, the 1000 years have expired!
When did Revelation 20:7-8 occur?
Spiritualizing the scriptures is a must for those who hold certain views.
But yet it doesn't solve these problems.
More another day.
GB.
Thanks for responding, it's been a busy week, sorry for such a late response.
Part 1.
Acts 7:35-38 emphasis is on Moses not the Church. besides this gathering/church is the Nation Israel, Not Christ church "that he would later build mentioned in Matthew 16:18.
Christ have not been crucified yet, so the church couldn't have already been built.
The church was not built on the sacrifices of goats and calves, nor would it be built while the first tabernacle stood.
Church definition.
a calling out that is (concretely) a popular meeting especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both
As you mentioned, In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says upon this rock he will build HIS CHURCH.
So, this rock that Jesus mentions in which he will build his Church, is a rock of offence and a stumbling block to the Jews, so this gathering "The Church " is not the gathering in the wilderness.
GIGI
Galatians 3:29. Is not talking about any promises back to the land here on earth. It's not a Kingdom verse at all. It's about a contrast between Salvation by faith and the works of the Law. That's not a land promises!
Theme; Galatians 3:1-2.
Vs 14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Also, Hebrews 11 is a chapter about faith!
The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven "After" The Millennium kingdom here on Earth. Revelation 21:1-2.
Revelation 20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
See Part 2.
Part 5.
Who is God? - His Nature
We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible ( John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite ( 1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable ( 2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging ( Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere ( Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything ( Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority ( Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6).
Who is God? - His Work
We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God's works, past, present, and future: God created the world ( Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world ( Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan ( Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death ( Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ ( John 6:44); He disciplines His children ( Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world ( Revelation 20:11-15).
Who is God? - A Relationship with Him
In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate ( John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the "bridge" between God and man ( John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins ( Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God ( John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ "all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" ( Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus.
Jerry that is much of what we know about God and that probably don't scratch the surface on GOD!
I HOPE THIS HELPS.
GOD BLESS.
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
I agree with Adam, as we see in Genesis 2:7 that when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam the breath of life he became a living soul. When this spirit of life that is given by God leaves us, we are no longer a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7 the spirit goes back to God who gave it, that is for all people, saved or not saved.
We cannot live without the spirit, our breath as James 2:26 said without it our body is dead. When we stop breathing and that spirit goes back to God, we are no longer a living soul, as Jesus said on the cross, I commend my spirit, His breath then He died. Jesus did not go to heaven He went to the tomb/grave the same as we will. Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected, John 20:17.
My understanding is the confusion comes from Greek Philosophy, the meaning of death, Hades, and the immortality of the soul that merged into the Church with Augustine with the teaching on human nature and the afterlife to Greek philosophies.
Daniel 12:2 is the same as John 5:28-29 that we see in Revelation 20:11-15, the sheep and the goats, we see the last enemy cast into the lake of fire death, and hell/grave. My understanding of Scripture we are mortal, and our breath/spirit goes back to God and our soul no longer lives but is asleep in the grave until we are resurrected from the grave. This body is not what is resurrected it is our soul into our new body, and that is when we will be absent from this body, 1 Cor. 15:42-58.
Can I tell someone who thinks their loved one is in heaven their wrong? No, that would be hurtful. If they ask for my understanding, this is what Scripture says to me.
God bless,
RLW
This corresponds with the idea of all those not written in the Book of Life as well in Revelation 20:5. The status of a person is determined by God; as well as those who the Son is revealed to. ( Matt. 11:27). Thus; in God's timing Antichrist is revealed; and therefore those who do not love the truth will believe THE LIE ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12).
I will give you some of the scriptures that says we died on the cross with Christ and were raised with Christ, the first resurrection.
2 Corinthians 5:14 .... that if ONE died for ALL,then were all DEAD.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ IN God.
Romans 6:6 ....our old man is CRUCIFIED with him .......
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ: nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but Christ liveth in ME .....
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised US UP TOGETHER ......
Isaiah 26:9 Thy DEAD men shall arise, TOGETHER with my dead body shall they ARISE ....
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .....
God bless you
I too am way up in age.
Why do you believe you are going to lay in the grave and wait for the second resurrection?
Why do you not believe you were resurrected with Christ, at the first resurrection?
Revelation 20:5-6
John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly.
Here's John 5:24. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; BUT IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE".
Also see John 11:25-26.
There's physical death and there is spiritual death.
Everyone will die the physical death, ( Once.) Hebrews 9:27. Jesus took care of the Spitual death on the cross.
Those who haven't trusted Christ is ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! There is no sequence to this. You see it in Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;
Revelation 20:13-14. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
This concept is spreaded broadly throughout scripture when interpreted right.
Romans 6:3-11.
Ephesians 2:1-9. And you HATH HE QUICKENED, who were dead in trespasses and sins: He gave life!
This is there present condition.
He didn't say "You whom he WILL quicken!"
If we don't have eternal life now, we don't have nothing to apply our faith to.
God bless.
You said when a believer dies his body goes to the grave to await the resurrection.
The word says unbelievers go to the grave to await the resurrection, they will be raised back in there bodies of flesh and blood.
Believers never die again, they have already died once with Christ.
Martha had the same belief as you, she said to Christ:
John 11:24 ..... I know he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Martha was a unbeliever.
Jesus SAID:
John 11:25 ..... I am the resurrection ....
John 11:26 Whosoever BELIEVETH IN ME shall NEVER DIE .....
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE:
When did they DIE? .... on the cross .....
for they are EQUAL to the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION, on such the SECOND DEATH has no power .....
God bless you
You asked the question about who I'm referring to regarding the "just and the unjust". The just are the ones who have heard The Gospel of The Kingdom by: Jesus Christ, and believe, accept, repent from their sin, ask for forgiveness, receive baptism, and strive to pick up their cross and follow Jesus Christ.
The unjust would be the opposite; they hear the Gospel of the Kingdom and refuse and don't believe, they fail to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and continue to live a worldly life in sin. Or alternately they hear it, believe it initially, and then fall away back into their world of sin.
The bible reinforces and insures that "Everyone that ever lived on this earth," will receive their own final Judgement.
Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Important: How were they judged? They were judged every man according to their works!!!! What??? Works??? Something we all need to really think about
GBU
Not sure? You did not reply to anyone, but we have Jesus standing on Mount Zion just in front of Jerusalem with the 144000 firstfruits unto God and the Lamb. Firstfruits are the first that is sacrificed, this is just after or at Jesus's second coming.
This is after the ten nations destroy Babylon and whoever has worshiped the beast and taken his mark will drink of the wrath of God, so this wrath is after the second coming, and he/beast along with all who have worshiped him and taken his mark the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:9.
When Jesus returns there will be no rest until all enemies are put under His feet. Am I off base?
Brother, not sure about your post help me understand.
God bless,
RLW
Jesus said Yes! Matthew 24
Starting from the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 c.e.
until he comes. Then there's God's Wrath coming against Satan the Devil (the Dragon, Serpent REV. chapter 12), Wild beast (Authorities, Kings, HORNS chapter 17,18), and False Religion (Babylon the Great, Prostitute Revelation 17:1-6; Revelation 20:1,10)
Revelation 17 spoken in illustration then the angel explains
Revelation 18 spoken in illustration how powerful Babylon the great is (False Religion:The Great City)
Revelation 22 spoken partly in illustration and then true talk at the end
Rather it's believed or not, the scriptures (The law passed from Heaven Psalm 83:18) has spoken. 2 Peter 1:20,21
Only time will tell
When we die do we automatically get to go to heaven or do we have to wait until the resurrection?
MountHoreb Reply: I personally can't recall at the moment Jesus giving any details
regarding The Apostles quick resurrection.
But We do have evidence of Jesus Resurrection Luke 24:46. when he died he was on the earth as an
invisible spirit Acts 1:3. Jesus as an invisible spirit ( john 4:24) has the ability to materialize into a human
Luke 24:3,5; Acts 1:9-11 . All angels Can transform themselves Luke 24:4; Luke 24:36
We also have an example of Apostle Stephen who was stoned by the infuriated High Priest.
he knew it meant his death for speaking the truth. notice what he said at Acts 7:54-60;
We have proof that Stephen appealed (prayed) to Jesus in Heaven Acts 7:59.
To no disappointment: Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) Only selected or Chosen a few
to go to heaven according to Revelation 14:1,3. notice the scripture said "from Earth" (redeemed or taken from)
Not all are picked as presidents only one is. and there are those selected under him. Revelation 20:4,6
HOPE THE SCRIPTURES ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION: Psalm 37
Good discussion: my understanding of scripture is as yours, man will not be in the lake of fire for eternity, but also somewhat different. In Daniel 12:2 John 5:24-29 Revelation 20:11-15 we see all good, bad, and ugly will be resurrected so everyone will have a conscious existence to answer and be accountable on judgment day, the last day, and my understanding is that is Revelation 20:11-15.
Greek philosophy of the immortal soul has influenced the understanding of death so, if the soul is immortal and cannot die the burning in hell/lake of fire will be forever. Scripture says to me we are mortal, Romans 8:11 1 Corinthians 15:53-54 2 Corinthians 5:4. We see in Genesis 2:7 that man became a living soul, not a soul was placed in man, so when that breath of life/spirit is gone the body/soul is dead. The breath of life, Ecclesiastes 12:1-8 there will we be until the resurrection.
I could say more but in short, just for consideration, if there is eternal punishment, on resurrection day the unsaved will be given what scripture says only the saved will receive, an immortal body and eternal life? "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" So, the penalty for sin will be eternally over and done with, no more sin, and no more death for eternity, forever and ever.
God bless,
RLW
Now, I have a query on what you had earlier written (& now), in discussion with Jema a few days ago: "So when we look at the nature of God's Judgment program very carefully, we find that the Final Punishment is annihilation, that is destruction". And I quote this as you also shared here, "When was the last time you heard a sermon that focused on the Judgment and Wrath of God for sin?" Obviously, I think I have misunderstood you, where it appears that you believe that the final state of man is, either he's enjoying eternal life with the Lord, or a cessation of all existence (annihilation, as you put it). And then the "Wrath of God for sin" as you now stated. Without making any further assumptions, maybe you could clarify your belief, as in my mind I'm unable to reconcile the two statements.
I believe that Matthew 10:28 was quoted as a reference to the complete destruction of soul & body, to which the Greek word does support; as it does to John 3:16 ("perish"), Romans 2:12, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 2 Peter 3:9, and many others. But reference wasn't made to Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:8,9; Matthew 25:46; Jude 1:7; Revelation 20:10,14,15; & others. In the light of these other Scriptures as well as the essence of the Gospel message which requires an eternal suffering, or else we don't have any Good News of salvation to give, how should we understand your statements? Blessings.
The earth will have the fullness of harvest and life during the Millennium. The vast transfer of wealth to the Temple of God and administering ruling over cities and areas of the world may correspond with places we lived in our earlier life on earth; or made appropriate for the level of service or lack thereof which we lived using our gifts and resources for the Lord at that time.
At the end of the Millennium there is the last final rebellion where the number is as the "sand of the sea" ( Revelation 20:8). Largely; that would be a campaign warning both the deception of those descendants of those who survived Armageddon have because of wicked hearts ( Jeremiah 17:9) as well as Satan being a reality since he wouldn't be seen for the 1000 years. I am a firm believer in predestination as other verses make clear; so that as now we will just be a faithful witness so that His warnings will be recieved by those who are appointed to eternal life and rejected by those not in the Lamb's Book of Life. Again; it is obvious that the Gospel as stated now will not be necessary to prove somehow that Christ is Lord. Isaiah 65:20 indicates those who die at 100 are considered accursed; and we know that during the Millennium God will swiftly deal with rebellion. Those who do wish to go against the Lord will be waiting; perhaps for many hundreds of years for the final rebellion against God; somehow thinking that Satan himself can succeed even though he failed before. No doubt Satan will have some insane explanation of where he was the 1000 years; somehow convincing everyone that he has overcome being bound by his own effort and amassed enough strength to defeat God and His people. Perhaps having God's people close by on earth rather than heaven will convince everyone that he can defeat them suddenly. We know of course how that will end.
As for now; Ephesians 6 shows how we fight spiritual warfare ( 1 Peter 5:9). Evangelism and prayer are our current mission.
Part 1.
Abraham in Genesis 17:6 where it is recorded: "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee."
This is restated in verse 16 of the same chapter in relation to the promise of the son of Sarah: "And I will bless her, and moreover I will give thee a son of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be of her."
It is probable that there would be little question about the meaning of this covenant, if it did not involve eschatology as a whole. It would seem that the promises are simple and direct that David's posterity should continue forever and that his political kingdom would not end. However, even such a simple interpretation presents some immediate problems, as David himself seems to anticipate when he notes that the prophecy concerns a long time to come.
The principal difficulty, however, seems to be that the connotation of the Davidic covenant supports the premillennial interpretation of the Bible involving a future reign of Christ on earth as David's greater Son. This point of view is quite unacceptable to the amillenarian and therefore for them some interpretation of the Davidic covenant must be found other than that of a literal fulfillment. Generally speaking, amillenarians deny that this covenant has any decisive force on the millennial question and find its terms fulfilled in the present day with God's dealings with the church. Quite often the attempt is made to deny that anything in the Old Testament construes a premillennial eschatology and statements are made such as that of Louis Berkhof: "The only Scriptural basis for this theory [i.e., premillennialism] is Revelation 20:1-6, after an Old Testament content has been poured into it" (Systematic Theology,)
See part 2.
In brief the Amillennial view.
I woke up this morning singing to the Lord in my mouth and heart. It must have been a beautiful dream of peace and of the Lord Himself! May worship be with me all day, I pray, Amen. Then I opened the Bible in Hebrews 6:1 reading the beautiful words probably Paul has written, influenced, inspired by the Lord Himself. And as so many Christians struggle with. In the New Testament they are put together as a common thread. So we WILL understand them eventually.
The words you read here are to be read in the Spirit of revelation and wisdom so that you find out for yourselves what the rest of the words and sets in the chapter are about, is the truth we are searching for. The truth we can testify to for hungry people outside the scheme. And we are also starving for God. He will give us both food and water that live and that will go into the eternal dwellings! Go out in peace everyone and know that you are the bearer of a light, a truth, a love like no other on this planet. And it/are will last forever. Amen
Stay close to Him and His word. For remember we shall search and seek, and we shall find. And we must seek more to not be deprived of what we have. When we have received much from the Lord, He will give us more. All in His Glory, Hallelujah Amen. Love u all in Christ Jesus.
I may be different, but in my understanding of the Bible, I approach scripture simply and do not try to complicate things with preconceived ideas and let the Bible and the Holy Spirit do the interpretation. To me, a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning.
A symbol represents something real, a real person, a real thing, or a historical event. When I read, I understand words in a literal sense first, then in a figurative or spiritual sense if the literal doesn't make sense.
Are the Christians now the Israel of God? Have the promises to Israel and the church merged into one common heritage? If so that brings up.
Will the promise of the land given to Abraham's seed, Isaac then Jacob be fulfilled? Isaiah 11:11-12 Ezekiel 37:21-25 Jeremiah 24:5-6 Ezekiel 34:11-12 Ezekiel 36:24-26 Hosea 3:4-5 Micah 4:6-7 Zechariah 13:8-9
Will Jesus the Messiah return and reign on the earth, with a rod of iron? Isaiah 2:1-4 Isaiah 11:1-4 Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:14 Zechariah 14:1-4 Jeremiah 3:17 Revelation 2:26-27 Revelation 11:15 Revelation 12:5 Revelation 19:11-21.
Will there be a literal millennium during which Satan will not deceive the nations and Christ will reign on earth? Revelation 20:1-6 2 Timothy 2:11-12 Isaiah 2:2-4 Isaiah 11:5-16 Isaiah 65:19-25 Isaiah 51:4-5 Zechariah 14:16-21 Micah 4:1-4 Psalms 46:7-11 Matthew 19:28.
To me there are too many scriptures that are showing God has not replaced Israel with the Church. We see in Romans 11:24-27 a day when God will again turn to Israel, the day Jesus returns. Forgive me if some of the scriptures do not fit.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2.
If the coming of the Lord and the gathering together of believers unto Him, and the Day of the Lord are all the same event as you stated,
Who's going to populate the Millenium if all the wicked is destroyed and the righteous raptured at this junction?
Who's these 2 groups described in Revelation 20:8-9?
"And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And (THEY) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the (SAINTS) about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured (THEM).
Who are these saints?
Who are they that went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints?
If we would let the scripture tell us, verse 8 tells us who the saints are. (whom is as the sand of the sea.) This is an Old Testament idiom for Israel.
We know they're not the church they reign with Christ during this period and in Revelation 19:1-9 the Church has made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
To hold that view one would have to suggest that the Church was raptured then returned, Satan released, the wicked resurrected to cause more harm for the bride to go thru it all over again.
You have to include the Millennium in your eschatology theology.
That's why some post trib people say were already in the millennium to get rid of this major issue.
Part 2.
Continuing with just a few of the Day of the Lord verses.
Zephaniah 1:15
Isaiah 13:9
Lamentations 2:1
Isaiah 13:13
Isaiah 51:22
Jeremiah 25:15
Revelation 16:19
Revelation 14:10
Revelation 16:1
Isaiah 63:1-6.
This is what Paul is telling them is not at hand. This is what we all agree on besides a few that the Church will not see.
However some see the Rapture in Revelation 20:4-6 sadly mistaking it for the Resurrection.
That would place the Church on the Earth during the wrath of the Lord that comes upon all the Earth.
When we take 2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, AND THAT MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, the son of perdition;
Paul gives them the sequence of events in chronological order of what happens "AFTER" that what he reminded them of previously in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
That's why he opens up saying "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by "OUR" gathering together unto him," 2 Thessalonians 2:1.
Paul included them and himself in this gathering! So did they see the son of perdition? No.
We take 2 Thessalonians 2:3 with the following scriptures to pitch our viewpoint. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-15.
The son of perdition can't come while the light bearers is in the world. The Church! Who sits in the midst of the Church? Christ/His Holyspirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-8.
God bless.
It is only when we can appear before the throne of grace with our hearts that we feel that God is near.
Then there will be a great apostasy. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-12. We must go to the Book of Revelation to move forward. But as many believers believe, nothing can be taken out of this book. I guess that's the whole Word of God. Revelation 20:1-6 or whole chapter. John he sees what is true.
Paul meant and encouraged the Thessalonians with the words he wrote to them. For when we die, all believers will go to Jesus. We are the ones who die in Christ. Revelation 19 and 20 chapters, one can get an understanding of it all. To the end, there will not be a single believer on earth. And let's hope, however, that the last man of faith has the Holy Spirit with him. We can't believe we're going to be taken away, not until the last man! There will be harder and bad times. Also in terms of richness and money. Finally, the day comes when we MUST receive a chip to go online, to pay bills, to buy food and mm.
Love you all. Stay close to the word of God
We have to understand the difference between taken and left.
Sin (unbelief) governs OUR FLESH, the wages of SIN (unbelief) is death, the "GIFT" of belief is eternal LIFE.
So man is either consumed by unbelief, and goes to the grave, to await the second resurrection: or he believes he and Christ were resurrected TOGETHER; becoming ONE NEW CREATION, and will NEVER SEE DEATH, because he has ALREADY DIED on the CROSS with CHRIST.
ONE will be TAKEN in DEATH, and go to the grave: ONE will be LEFT, never to SEE DEATH, dwelling in the presence of GOD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE (you DIED with Christ): for THEY (the one's LEFT, and will never see the grave) are EQUAL unto the angels (omnipresent, glorified bodies); and are the children of God (God can't die), being the children of (Christ's) RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who hath PART in the first (Christ's) resurrection, on such the second death hath NO POWER ...
God Bless YOU!