Discuss Revelation 20 Page 9

Thank you Tony. In reference to Revelation 20:10, the "torment" being used for 'testing', in your understanding, does this 'testing' continue eternally without any finality to their judgement? Or does the verse more fully speak of that eternal torment received is the result of them being found guilty & deserving of their punishment. I became confused when you also referred to Jeremiah 31:34: are you speaking of the saved whose sins are already forgiven by virtue of Christ's death, or for some type of redemption for the unsaved?

And then to the "touchstone" & the connection to the "cornerstone". Though the same Greek word for Stone is used, I see a different application, where Christ is seen not as the 'testing' stone but as the very stone that forms the joint for connecting the two walls together, & is being rejected as useless (as was the rejection of the lord of vineyard's son). And the chief priests & scribes correctly perceived "that he had spoken this parable against them".

And then when we come to Revelation 20:10, where the "devil is was cast into the Lake of Fire, where the beast & the false prophet already are", I don't understand this to be a testing time for unbelievers. Their judgement is seen in Revelation 20:11-13, when the Books are opened & according to their works, were deemed guilty & not found in the Book of Life. Their judgement & punishment are now eternal. Those who belong to Him, through His Son, have been eternally secured, & their only judgement is in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, where rewards are given to those who have built their Christian lives well on that One Foundation & sadly with shamefacedness & loss to those who have dishonoured Him in their lives.

There's more to share, but I feel that I may not have fully comprehended your understanding, so will leave it for now.

CONTINUED ON REVELATION 20:10 . The righteous will witness false believers rejecting the testing of the Stone. The fire will witness that He has not made a mistake in judging the lost. If He could make a mistake about someone's salvation among the lost, the fire could have no effect on them, the fire cannot destroy the gold of redemption which is in Christ. I can understand the horror and grief as the redeem see that there is no possibility for loved ones to be saved. As terrible as this testing is, God has made clear that He judged correctly. Then He wipes away all tears from our eyes, and we leave behind all that we experienced in this world of sin, For God also wipes away our sins. Jeremiah 31:34



"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD : for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD ; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

When God chooses not to remember something, it cannot exist anywhere. What a God!

Hi Chris-Here's my understanding of the Greek word for "torment," in Revelation 20:10. First, I have read this passage many times (who doesn't read Revelation many times?) This is what struck me. Why are the wicked raised from the dead? Haven't they been previously judged at this time? What is God's purpose in casting them into the Lake of fire? Most all believers have family members and close friends who we thought would be in the kingdom. Why do the righteous in the Holy City have to see people we love about to face their eternity in the fire?

As you pointed out, the word in Greek is ""basanisthesontai." Strong's NT 928. It is associated with NT 931, a "Touchstone." It is also related to the ancient word for "testing," This where I saw the full impact of Rev 20:10. Their torment is related to testing them. Jesus says in Rev 3:18, "Buy of Me gold tried in the fire."

In 1 Corinthians 3:10-14, Paul refers to this time of testing by fire. It will reveal "every man's work," as to the person's true character. And only precious metal will survive the fire. In ancient Greek, NT 931, "Touchstone" was a "Lydiam stone" used by assayers to determine the value of certain metals (gold and silver). As the assayer pressed the metal against the stone, it would leave a streak that determined its value. Luke 20:17, Jesus mentions that He is the "Stone" Israel rejected. The Geek word for stone is, "Lithos," or Lydiam, the stone used by assayers."

My question at this point was, "Why does God test the lost in Rev 20:10? He knows who are His and those that don't belong to Him. Therefore, the testing must be for the redeemed! The only scenario I see is that God wants the redeemed to know why their loved ones are not saved. He does not want the saved to raise the question of, "Will the possibility of sin ever occur again in the New Earth? Basically, this testing time demonstrates that the lost do not want to follow or worship Christ. CONTINUED...

Thank you Tony for your further comments. Just taking up your question now on Revelation 20:10, which I neglected to do earlier for lack of comment space.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Noting your brief comment on this & what I can see of the word "vasanistirio" or, "basanizo", it speaks of 'torment, torture, examining by torture'. However, you've written, "The English robs God of His mercy and goodness in this last act with the lost." I assume you mean the English usage of the Greek word, so I would be intrigued what this word means to you, in line with the Revelation verse.

Greetings my brother Chris.

Pardon my tremendous error in my previous response!!! A mighty example of the mind outracing the fingers on the keyboard.

I apologize for sending "I believe Revelation 20:14 explains the place all souls reside after death until the gathering of the church and the following judgment of the lost." My intention was to state - I believe Revelation 20;14 explains the place all lost souls eternally reside after the gathering of the church and following the judgment of the lost. Quite different than what I originally sent.

As to my comments on 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, I do not think Paul fully understood the timing of the return of Christ for His church. In my studies, I have found that many, perhaps a large majority, of early believers envisioned a quick return of Christ. Paul was the foremost of these believers in a return in his lifetime. Thus stated, at the time of his writing (dictating?) Second Corinthians I believe Paul expected an imminent return of Christ. Later, I believe Paul came to realize the timetable of Christ's return was longer than he originally believed.

It is believed Paul initially visited Corinth about 50-51 CE. The First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians is believed to have been written about 53-54 CE from Ephesus. The second letter is believed to have been written from Macedonia in about 55 CE. Thus the second letter was approximately 5 years after Paul first visited Corinth. Paul's execution is dated between 67 and 70 CE.

Based on the traditional view, 2 Timothy was Paul's final epistle and is dated as 67 CE and originated in Rome. While the date is not certain, the location is known as Paul was in the custody of the Romans at his time.

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e that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Brother Bill, I continue to enjoy our discussions.

Couple of your points. Firstly, distinguishing between Sheol & the Lake of Fire. You stated that "I believe Revelation 20:14 explains the place all souls reside after death until the gathering of the church and the following judgment of the lost." That passage speaks of the Lake of Fire which apparently is the terminus of all unforgiven sinners, including Satan, his henchmen, the Anti-christ, etc., or maybe I've misunderstood you. Can that burning Lake, from which there is no escape, be considered a holding place for all souls after death? Indeed, as you stated, "God would have none perish in the eternal fire as He is love", yet we know that the majority will suffer in that eternal raging flame for they have spurned the offer of God's Love, despised His Son, & must suffer under His Just Hand. If that were not so, there is no case for the Gospel & its spread, often done in great labours even death, throughout the world.

Re: 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. I've re-read this. In verses 1-4, Paul writes on our 'earthly house' being dissolved (returned to dust), & we have the promise of a "house from Heaven". And verse 5 connects that thought of our glorified body provided by the same God Who has given us the "earnest of the Spirit", with the next verses. Paul says 'while he is in this body, he is absent from the Lord'. Rather the very opposite is his longing & confidence, 'to be absent in the body & to be present with the Lord'. So, I agree with how you read some of this portion, though I guess, it's how we read verses 6 & 8. Is Paul inferring a gap between his bodily demise & spiritual awakening in the Lord's Presence, or does he envision a 'no gap': his spirit must either be clothed in a body or be clothed in a heavenly body? - Either here or there. Can a believer given the Spirit & leaving this Earth, be left in a state of flux, rather than immediately return to the One Who has purchased us, completing His redemptive work?

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Good morning brother Chris!

Oh, the power of this discussion! So much to share together and expand our minds in the Spirit.

Your last post opens a wealth of information contained in both the Old and New Testaments as we know them.

We must agree that we have, and will keep, very separate views of the story of the beggar, Lazarus. I have no problem with our differing views as it is my firm conviction, that with few verese excluded, God reveals truth on an individual basis. This is where we two are on this scripture.

My personal belief is that ALL souls do, and always have, leave the body and go to a "holding place" until the gathering of the church by Christ. Further, I do not believe there is a "chasm" between the good and bad souls across which the two sides can see and talk with each other; prior to the resurrection or afterward.

Revelation 20:14 says that death and hades, Greek, (Sheol Hebrew), are thrown into the lake of fire. Why? Because they are no longer part of God's realm - death will be absent in eternity and the residence of the souls is unnecessary because of the judgment of the non-believer in verse 20:11.

I believe Revelation 20:14 explains the place all souls reside after death until the gathering of the church and the following judgment of the lost. If the place is named, its location is not. However, it does exist and verses indicate Christ visited Sheol during the three days prior to the resurrection - 1 Peter 3:18-20; Ephesians 4:9-10, (see Psalms 68:18, Isaiah 61:1-2, and Luke 4:18).

Why would Christ visit the souls in Sheol? All covenants before that of Christ did not include salvation, only atonement for sin by animal blood. The spirits of all that died prior to the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ were given the chance to acknowledge Christ and His salvation to allow them to be participants in the salvation provided by the resurrection.

God would have none perish in the eternal fire as He is love.

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Brother david, i fully agree.

philippians 2:13 for it is god that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.

you (sinful flesh died, on the cross, you no longer exist. the life (i am the way, truth, life) now in you is christ.

no greater love has a man than to give his life for his brother. have you died to christ (the word of god, this is the first death) (first resurrection).

revelation 20:6

revelation 13:10

Thank you, T. Levis for the verses.

Revelation 20:12-15 is an interesting set of verses and its meaning/knowledge depends on the interpretation of the keywords of:

1. Verse 12. "The DEAD, small and great" - I see this as meaning those that are non-believers only because the believers, other than those saved during the millennium, are already in heaven at the gathering of the church by Christ.

2. Verse 13. "The sea" - These words are used in the following two verses to indicate the lost mass of humanity:



Matthew 13:47-50.

Matthew 4:18-20.

3. Revelation 20:5. "The rest of the dead lived not again" - clearly a reference to the non-believers as the remaining dead would have to be those not gathered by Christ in the clouds. These dead are dead throughout the millennium.

Again, thank you for your response and the verses provided.

Hopefully these are helpful.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58

Luke 16:22-26

Hebrews 9:27

Revelation 2:11

Revelation 20:4-6

Revelation 20:12-15

Revelation 3:3-5

Revelation 21:10-27

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

Hello Prasanth. The question you ask is a valid one & because the Scriptures are not entirely clear on all the events pertaining to Satan's origin & despatch, we can only formulate an opinion based on what the Scriptures do reveal. Therefore, we can get many opinions on this, even yours could be valid. So, as you've asked the question, let me give you my understanding using a timeline.

a. When God created all things in Heaven (He Himself being un-created), all heavenly beings, etc. were created in eternity past. This was before the creation of the worlds, of man & of other things for the Earth. In Heaven, God created beings such as cherubs, seraphs, beasts, etc., which all had a particular function before God & which constantly worshipped Him ( Ezekiel 10:1-22; Isaiah 6:1-8).

b. One cherub, which was "perfect in thy ways from the day thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" ( Ezekiel 28:15), is reference to the one the Bible calls, Lucifer ( Isaiah 14:12). Although, the Ezekiel reference is directly to the King of Tyrus, the wording suggests that the spirit within the king is being addressed & described. Lucifer desired to sit in God's place ( Isaiah 14:12-14), therefore he was cast out of Heaven onto the Earth.

c. And Lucifer, also called Satan (in Book of Job), was there in readiness to deform God's perfect creation (man & woman) in the Garden of Eden, that they too might become like him, filled with evil & opposing God & all that is righteous & holy ( Genesis 3:1-19).

d. Though Satan was cast to the Earth, he still has access to Heaven, even as he presented himself to God with the other angels ( Job 1:6,7) to accuse Job (even as he does us: Revelation 12:10). Satan is not chained or confined to Hell now - he roams freely to deceive the nations ( Revelation 20:3) & will make his final thrust through the coming Anti-Christ, the personification of Satan, just as King Tyrus was. But he will one day be locked up for good ( Revelation 20:7-10).

Hi Glenn, I believe that Isaiah 11:6-10 speaks of the Millenium Kingdom of Christ on Earth. This is when Satan is locked away for 1,000 years (Revelation chapter 20), and he can no longer "deceive the nations" during this time. There will still be sinners (the nations) around, but not within the walls of Jerusalem where Christ the King sits & reigns ( Revelation 20:1-6) and the saved from the nations shall reign with Him.

It maybe at this time, with sin's force curtailed that the animal kingdom will also lose its fierceness (result of sin's corruption of all things), & the once ferocious animals will now co-habit with the more docile ones. But in Heaven, there is no Scripture to support the presence of animals in God's midst, apart from the heavenly beasts & beings. One's wishful thinking cannot add to what is already revealed to us.

Brother Sonny, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Most people are taught by the traditions of man, very few study themselves and let the Spirit reveal the truth to them.

Romans 8:20 For the CREATURE (CREATION) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY (evil), not WILLINGLY, but by REASON of him who hath SUBJECTED the same (creation) in HOPE. (Becoming ONE with their CREATOR).

Ponder on the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.

That knowledge exist TOGETHER, you can't have the KNOWLEDGE of good without also having the KNOWLEDGE of evil.

After partaking of this KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, God said, behold they (creation) have become like one of us to KNOW good and evil.

This KNOWLEDGE is necessary to become LIKE GOD.

John 17:21 That they (creation) ALL may BE ONE; as thou Father, art ONE IN ME, and I IN THEE, that thou also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has SENT ME.

Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery....CHRIST IN YOU.....

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4) proceeded lighting, and thunder and voices: BURNING ( Isaiah 4:4) before the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4), which (lighting, thunder, voices) ARE the SEVEN Spirits of God (now in you).

Isaiah 11:2 And the (first is the) SPIRIT of the LORD (Father) shall rest upon him (Christ (in you)), the (second) spirit of WISDOM, and (the third spirit of) UNDERSTANDING, the (forth) spirit of COUNSEL and (the fifth spirit of) MIGHT, the (sixth) spirit of KNOWLEDGE and (the seventh spirit) of the FEAR of the Lord.

When we no longer have to SUFFER IN THE FLESH we will BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND SON.

Have you considered: Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ?

While a comforting thought, that repeated phrase doesn't appear that way in the Bible. Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. That doesn't mean everyone goes to be with the Lord and that doesn't mean that everyone is absent from their body upon death and won't wait for Jesus to return, and won't face any judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. God bless...

This may actually be the differences in calendar years. I have recently been learning the differences in calendars. Todays USA calendar is different from the Jewish calendar, & even the Jewish calendar is different than originally. Hopefully that's helpful.

Proverbs 25:2

Proverbs 2:4

Matthew 13:11

Hey studying Revelation.

I agree with the study bible, the one I use has relating scripture in the middle and the scripture is half the page and commentaries on the bottom half. I love it you can study one page for hours for every time you go to another relative scripture it has more relating verses that will carry you all over the Bible.

I just listed two reasons that revelation is hard, it is made up of visions John was given and some of the visions are different, but are about the same event, but are in different parts of the book. And some things have not been revealed like the seven thunders John was told not to write and seal up.

I guess you are referring to Isaiah 24 on the upside-down, I don't see it fitting Genesis, maybe. I do agree with the last generation, whenever that will be, they may be shown what we cannot see now, if we die before it starts, we will wake up, and there we will be with Jesus.

God bless,

RLW

Revelation gets a little easier to read with a STUDY BIBLE.

The kind that have CENTER OF EACH PAGE, Reference Columns. There are tiny abc's Within the scriptures on each page; that match to the ones in the center reference column.

They point us forward or backward to other relevant scriptures or prophesies (fulfilled or unfulfilled)

I don't care for the study Bibles that use the bottom of the page, or the sides.

Revelation is using many references to other scriptures. A serious student needs one of these.

I have to have many spiral notebooks to guide me in these referenced scriptures. I title it with what is happening in the Revelation scriptures.

That is how I discovered that God had turned the earth upside down. Which may be the way Genesis began. That's one of those studies that I choose to leave in Gods hands.

If He had wanted us to know what happened 2 Billion years ago; He would have included a book and chapters for it in the Bible. OR.maybe He was waiting on the children in the Book of Daniel; a generation that would be alive during "the Time of the End". Daniel 12:9-10 Wise children.

Daniel 1:17

Children who walk with the Holy Spirit. Able to despise all for to be the Lords servants. You can't love this world that will pass away. Love the God who is going to destroy this world and then restore it. Back to what it was when Adam was put in it.

Who would have the power of the key to the bottomless pit and give permission to use? Jesus in Revelation 1:18 had the keys of hell and death and is alive evermore. The Revelation the Lamb is worthy to open the seals thereof. Revelation 5:9-10 And they sang a new song, saying Though are worthy to take the book, and open the seals thereof: for though was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Revelation 20:1 says: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

One stronger than Satan and all other evil spirits could and did bound this bottomless pit by the power of the resurrection. This is the completed Work of Christ for those who could now look to Jesus as the author and finisher of their faith and be saved from the dominion of death and hell with Satan and his evil spirits.

The Kingdom of Christ could now come down from heaven to dwell among men. Saved children of God on earth could become citizens of the Kingdom instead of as aliens without the gate.

The same citizens could now reign with Jesus for a thousand years. These citizens of the Kingdom can pray intercessory prayers and sing a pure praise to the Lord.

So another view is the 1000 years is the Gospel era. The loosing of Satan towards the end of time will help clarify the Kingdom of Heaven from the kingdom of the world. This present Kingdom view is peaceable and is contained in all the doctrines of the Bible including turning swords into ploweshares.

Shellon Hooten,

Revelation is hard, for one, it is not in chronological order, and not all has been revealed to us. Pray and keep in mind there are answers we may never be given. At this time there have been 3.5 years of tribulation by Satan, the beast, the false prophet, and the great whore Babylon, and Babylon was just destroyed by the ten kings/countries of the beast. ( Revelation 17, 18).

These same ten kings/kingdoms/countries will make war with Jesus, ( Revelation 17:14). They were rejoicing in heaven and "his wife hath made herself ready" and "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb" ( Revelation 19:1-10).

In ( Revelation 19:11-21) we see Jesus coming with his armies, ( Matthew 25:31) that were in heaven, and the call to the fowls to gather to the supper of the great God. ( Ezekiel 39: 17-20) There are more scriptures on the coming of Jesus, ( Matthew 24: 29-31) ( Mark 13:24-27) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), and more. The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and the remnant of the armies are destroyed by the sword proceeding out of the mouth of Jesus. The power of His word wiped them out.

Then in Revelation 20, Satan is locked in the bottomless pit, to be there for one thousand years, and Jesus sets up His Kingdom and the camp of the saints. So scripture tells us when Jesus returns with all His holy angels/armies, He sends angels to gather His elect. Who are in this first resurrection? The description of them is in ( Revelation 20:4). Are they all that will be saved? Are they the most loyal elect that is given this honor? The key is the white throne judgment, is it only for the lost as taught? Why is the book of life opened ( Revelation 20:12)? Should we not consider ( Matthew 25:31-46) ( John 5:28-29) ( Acts 24:15). Do we overlook ( Revelation 20:15)?

I know this does not answer your question, if it can be answered, but may it inspire study.

God bless,

RLW

Again, reading the Commentaries are helpful.

Google: BIBLEHUB dot com

Revelation is sometimes hard to sort out. I find it easier to go with what is written in the Bible.

When the Father releases the Son to go get His Bride (called, CAUGHT UP IN THE CLOUDS)

1. Jesus already has Saints in heaven that died long ago. From Genesis until the present day.

During the Caught Up, Jesus resurrects the dead in Christ. They named Jesus as their Lord and Savior; prior to death.

2. Christ Followers, alive upon earth, will be Caught Up in the clouds, 2nd.

Believers will receive their resurrection bodies and white robes.

I very much trust what I have learned about Jesus thus far. I trust, I follow. I don't need to know every detail of what happens next.

As the Bride of Christ, we have already entered into Covenant with Him. We're engaged. We've been personally invited to attend the Marriage Supper. Only those who accepted the invitation may attend.

I'm one of those people that says stuff like; here's where we are now; and here is where we're going. Criticizing doesn't alter Focus. I know in whom I have believed and love. I don't need an itinerary. It's in the Bible.

It's very human to want to know what happens next. Faith says, I'm All In. Jesus said often, Follow Me. I hope this can quell some of those fears of the "Unknown". I do not believe anyone is going to get lost.

For me now, I keep my faith eyes on Jesus and do as best I can, to follow His known will. If sin pops up, I kick it to the curb, and keep following.

I don't enjoy arguing. I love seeing me produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Keep my mind anchored to whatever is pure, lovely and of good report.

The Commander of the Host leads, and everyone follows Him. Don't fret the details. Trust Jesus implicitly. Read of Gideon and how God worked all that presupposition out of him. I love that story!

Mishael

Note that Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul just said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. I think some are reading things into that that aren't there and it seems contrary to other scripture about us all facing judgment. No one gets to skip judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.

I doubt mass murderers like Hitler went to the Lord for example. I believe he is waiting to face judgment like everyone else.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?

Also, when people die they 'sleep' as it says in. So, they are still with their bodies. If cremated, I still believe souls are just sleeping somewhere awaiting Jesus's return, then the day of judgment that says everyone must face. It doesn't say anyone gets to skip judgment day. God bless.

Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." What do this mean exactly? who are the these people?

The Hebrew word for hand is Yad, the def. also includes the arm! So this vaccine is called ( world order ) WO 202020 060606 by Bill Gates who developed it! Red flag no. 1, Red flag no. 2 It contains a luminescent chemical called Luciferase! Red flag no.3 it changes your God given DNA by deleting it with messenger RNA! This is the fallen angels trying to mingle the iron with the clay from Daniel! This "gene therapy" is full of nanotech graphene oxide it's in the hydrogel delivery system of the injection! It doesn't even qualify as a vaccine according to the FDA or CDC standards! Moderna and Pfizer admit that they are hacking the human genome! They say they are downloading an operating system into human beings! When a vaxxed person puts their arm and hand under a black light , their entire arm lights up! People have scanned their arm and their number shows up on the screen!

Adam,

The warning to not take the mark is specifically for the 144 thousand sealed saints. They are the only ones strong enough not to take the mark ( Revelation 20:4). God knows everyone else, Christian or not, will accept the mark during the great tribulation. This is human instinct to survive any way possible. Chapter 14 is for the saints.

( Revelation 14:9-11)

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There are Bible accounts you accept at face value, and others you don't accept at face value (more to it than meets the eye). If you don't understand who the immediate audience is, you will not gain full understanding. You will think it's directed at you, and say something like "I wouldn't take the mark", when in fact, you most certainly will take the mark. Most Christian's are weak as water and will clamor to take the mark. God knows the hypocrites, Christian's in name only will lose their religion for their bellies. Each claim must be proven in its measure, and this one has problems in its rhetorical design.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It uses the word "destruction."

I don't know if you believe in hell or not. Most Christians do, because the Bible warns us about hell. So, if you believe in hell, the next question is how long does it last? Instant destruction/death, medium term death, long term, or eternity? The Bible uses different synonyms, examples, parables, etc to describe hell. For example, if you keep reading in Matthew 7 verse 19 it calls it a 'fire'. Matthew 8:12 says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mark 9:48 says the worm never dies and fire unquenched. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 says "everlasting destruction." I interpret this is not short. Revelation 20:10 also suggests it's not short in duration. Jude 1:7 - uses the word "eternal fire." Matthew 25:46, Matthew 25:41. These are only a handful of examples and I think there are more suggesting that hell is not an instant death. If you find just as many verses saying hell is instant and you die instantly, please share them. I also don't believe the word death or destruction automatically means it's instant. It can happen over a longer period of time. For example Adam and ate the fruit and was condemned to death, but lived 930 years. He became mortal and died just like God said and it wasn't instant, but the death was slow. Is it out of the question to consider the same could be true for hell, especially since many verses say it's eternal?

People will likely interpret the duration differently and we probably won't know for sure until the end. But because of the scripture, the context, that hell is intended to be a punishment for those who disobeyed, I do not believe it is an instant death. I think people will be very sorry and deeply regret they disrespected God and did not take Him seriously and I believe God will fairly see those who chose evil are punished. God bless.

Tom Any action in life that is done in repetition that is sin is in the category of seared conscience because a person does it not feeling a sense of right or wrong when doing it. Eventually it gets to feeling normal and the mind justifies the action not believing its wrong. A clear conscience is produced by endeavoring to line up our actions with scripture I.E. living it. We endeavor to walk with a clear conscience toward God.

Romans chapter 1, all of it.

I don't have to comment on this. The scriptures are plain enough.

If you don't have a Bible, this website does. It's on the red page that google opened.

I like Isaiah 7:9, where it states If you don't stand firm in the Faith you won't stand at all..so stand firm my brother..

Hi Tom.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor( EFFEMINATE,) nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 11.

Verse 11: AND SUCH "WERE" SOME OF YOU: BUT YE ARE WASHED, BUT YE ARE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE ARE JUSTIFIED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS, AND BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.

So shall we continue in sin?

Romans 6:1-7. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This is something one can be freed from, atleast a repented heart.

I hope this helps,

God bless.

I obtained the above information about the Mark of the Beast from a Book called Revelation & Charts, by J.J. Como, it was a picture and a short story of a PLO, who had converted to Christ, it is on page #26..Just for your info..