Bible Discussion Thread

Amen Brother Chris and great point. That's why I can not be dogmatic on this.

If the water does represent the "hearing" of the word in this passage, Jesus didn't answer him.

That would make no sense to Nicodemus, being that he was a Teacher of the law.

If water represents a physical birth that would ring a bell.

But I'm not sure Jesus was trying to give him anything earthly or fleshly in this discourse when I consider verses 11 and 12.

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

I sort of lean towards the scriptures you provided in Ephesians and Romans 10:8-9. "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Again, That may be inconclusive.

God bless you Brother.

Thanks bro S. Spencer. I can see from what you've shared, & bro Giannis has also added to, that if we look at Jesus' Words to Nicodemus as purely from a spiritual point of view/understanding, then of course "to be born of water" must have a spiritual connection & not physical. But of course, I don't read that verse in that manner, rather as Jesus' direct answer to Nicodemus' question, which can be paraphrased, 'Yes, there is a physical birth but there is also a spiritual birth/re-birth which I'm telling you about' - 'that a man has to be born, yes physically, but also spiritually to enter God's Kingdom'.

A couple of Bible commenters have even suggested that this being 'born of water' (or, born of the flesh, John 3:6) is a reference to the amniotic fluid which surrounds an embryo in the womb. That this fluid is the water (representing the physical nature of birth) that Jesus refers to, and then to the other birth, which Nico had no inkling about, which is the new birth, not physical but from God's Spirit. But to this meaning (i.e. amniotic fluid), I would be cautious about. Anyway, remaining open over such passages is the key to spiritual enlightenment & understanding. Blessings.

Amen Brother Chris.

I've seen great commentary on both sides of this topic.

Either way we're in Good company.

God bless.

Hello Spencer

This is how I understand it. Jesus says to Nicodemus that if one is not born again he can not see the Kingdom of God. So Nicodemus understands that Jesus is talking about a physical birth and asks Him how this can be done, enter his mother's womb and be born again? In his mind Jesus is talking about a physical birth. Then Jesus answers him and explains that he is talking about a spiritual birth. So these "water and Spirit" are the spiritual birth. Next Jesus talks to Nicodemus about salvation, verses 11-21. eg. "14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.". So Jesus talks to Nicodemus about having faith in Him in order to enter the kingdom of God. Faith is something that occurs when one hears the gospel and accepts it. That is why I don't take that water as the physical birth. In any case it can not be, in my opinion, the water of baptism. But what I don't understand is why Jesus is expecting Nicodemus to know these things as a master of Israel. How could Nicodemus knew about these? And from verse 11, I understand that Nicodemus had a doubt on what Jesus said.

Indeed bro Giannis. Leaving aside the matter of the water (whether it means from the Word or the flesh), I too sense the difficulty in understanding John 3:9,10 (..."Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"). As a teacher of the Scriptures, Nicodemus should have picked up, even a little, on what Jesus was trying to convey to him. My thoughts though turn to Psalm 51:10, Ezekiel 11:19,20 & Ezekiel 36:25-27 as passages that should have alerted Nicodemus' mind to Jesus Who was pointing him to a coming spiritual re-birth. And maybe his questions would have centered around those passages & what Jesus was speaking about. Unfortunately, Nico's mind couldn't recall those prophecies. GBU.

Hi Chris

Thanks for the answer. Perhaps it was those scriptures which you mentioned that Nicodemus had to bring in mind. Or perhaps Jesus tried to make him understand that although he was a master of Israel he couldn't have known those things. Because later He said, "12.If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13.And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." In that way Jesus impled that He Himself was/is in heaven and came down to earth to teach people, He wasn't just an other teacher of the Hebrew Law. Anyway. Thanks. GBU

Thanks Giannis.

That is the way I have it as well.

God bless.