Matthew 13:5 - Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
The Greek word for "stony places" is PETRODAY, and it actually means a slab. It does not mean that the soil was mixed up with rocks. It means that there was a slab, or a foundation stone underneath the soil, some kind of limestone or foundation stone underneath the dirt. And the seed would hit the dirt, and as all plants do, it would try to burrow itself. And then as all grass and plants do, they naturally try to spread root and establish a root system before they start cropping up on the top. This seed only has enough to be caught in the dirt. But it has nowhere to go for a root system.
Matthew 13:21 - Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
The phrase "by and by" is one word in the Greek (EUTHUS) that means Immediately. Properly translated "immediately, he is offended."
Matthew 13:25 - But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
A tare is what is called in the Greek ZIDZANIA, which means that it is actually black wheat. It looks exactly the same as wheat in its stalk as it grows, but when it gets to the time to blossom, the fruit of the wheat seed, some are black, and some are not. Now the ZIDZANIA (the tares), they are poisonous.
They used to feed those to their livestock because it's not good for food for people. But the animals started dying, and they began to realize that they were poisonous. All of a sudden you have got a good crop of wheat growing, but you have also got these tares growing with it.
So, the enemy came in, and sometimes they would do that to each other, is that a farmer would be growing his wheat, and then his enemy farmer down the street comes in the night and puts in tares, just to give them a bad crop.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This is one of the great verses in the bible, and probably the most debated verse in the bible, so we'll skip it. No, just kidding!
First of all, Jesus says "thou art Peter." The Greek word for Peter is PETROS, which means a small rock or stone. The word for rock that was used for Jesus is PETRA. It looks like they are from the same word. One is masculine and one is feminine. PETRA is a massive rock, a foundation stone.
So, we are talking about a little pebble. That is what PETROS is. And a PETRA is like a cement slab, a foundation. The two words are not even close in identification. And so, people argue and debate and say, thou art Peter, PETROS, and upon this rock PETRA, I will build my church. They say that since it is not the same word as Peter, then maybe PETRA refers to his confession, that everybody that makes the confession that Peter made they will be the ones that will make up the church.
Others say that it makes reference to Peter and that the church is based or built on Peter, and that he's the foundation of the church. Religious groups held up this view for many, many years. At least one group still does.
Well, what is interesting here is that PETRA, and we are just going to follow the word PETRA, because PETROS is for Peter. That is it. In 1 Corinthians 10:4, concerning the children of Israel going through the wilderness, Paul says, and they did all drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that spiritual rock, PETRA, that followed them and that rock, PETRA, was Christ. So, PETRA was Christ 1 Corinthians 10:4.
Matthew 16:16 - And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Some people say, "wait a minute, it says Son of God!"
Something very important to understand:
There are a few Greek words in the New Testament for the word son. The verb form to give birth is TIKTO. The noun form that names the child that has experienced the birth is called a TEKNON.
So, people go from door-to-door, and they tell you that Jesus can't be God because He was the Son of God. And as a son, He had to be born. And they also say that not only is there God the Father, but there has to be god the mother because you can't have a son unless you have a father and a mother. They say that God the Father and god the mother are in heaven and Jesus is their son. And the son can't be the Father, they can't be the same people. Good grief!
Well, you got to love the Greek because this word for son has nothing to do with birth. It is the word HUIOS. Jesus is never called a TEKNON in the scriptures. TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. He is in line to inherit the estate. And what happened was Jesus said that He came as the Son, and the Father has given all things into His hands. Everybody is going to have to answer to Jesus Christ!
When He said, "the Son of the living God," that's a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
Matthew 16:17 - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
The term bar Jonah, bar is the word son in Aramaic. So, He says Simon the son of Jonah. He says blessed art thou, and there's our word MAKARIOS we saw in the beatitudes.
It means to experience the fullness of something. He's telling Peter that you have been illuminated, enlightened, and it is a revelation from God.
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
Jesse, please don't take this wrong I care, and I am trying to understand. I have read your posts on Matthew and some of it is helpful, but I do not agree with your understanding of the meaning you give on some of the Greek words.
In Matthew 16:16 you are saying when Peter told Jesus He is the Son of the living God Peter is confessing to Jesus, that He is the Messiah and He is God. You also say Son of the Living God is a title of God, sorry I don't agree with that. I understand you and probably most on this site believe in a triune God and that Jesus is God, I am sorry, but a title did not die for my sins.
God cannot be the Messiah, if we deny Jesus is the Christ/Messiah we are a liar and an antichrist. The one who does that also denies the Father and the Son, 1 John 2:22.
The heart and truth of the gospel is Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, a man born of a virgin whose Father is God conceived by the Holy Ghost with flesh and blood who God the Father sent, John 3:16. Who became the Messiah when He was anointed with the Holy Ghost after John the Baptise baptized Him. He died for our sins, and we are to confess Him and believe He is the Son of God, 1 John 4:151 John 5:10. In the Son of God Jesus is our faith and the only hope of salvation. Jesus is the one Moses spoke of Deuteronomy 18:15
My understanding is 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 is about this doctrine; I know you and others on here will not agree.
Secondly, I want to assure both you and Jaz that you have not and will not offend me by disagreeing with anything I say. Does it offend either of you when I disagree? It shouldn't! We all come here to share our understanding of scripture. Are we to expect that everything we say here will always be agreed upon by everyone? I would hope not. If we disagree, we just disagree. And that is okay. For me personally, I admit that there's always that possibility that I can be wrong. Not too many people will say this about themselves. I also think that even though we may disagree with each other on something, there is that possibility that we might both be wrong.
But no, I will never be offended if either of you (or anyone else for that matter) disagrees with me. If we're being rude to each other while disagreeing, that's a different story. But I'm only doing the same thing that you and everyone else here is doing which is sharing my understanding of what I've studied. We are human. None of us are infallible in our understanding. There will always be disagreement from someone no matter what we share. Not related to our discussion here, but years ago on a different website, I posted an exact quote from the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. I never even added my understanding, just quoted word for word a piece of scripture from the Bible. And guess what? Someone disagreed with it. Go figure!
Thank you, brother, I agree, giving our understanding even if we do not agree cannot be offensive. My understanding of Scripture has grown from discussions we have here, I have benefitted from you, S Spencer, Chris, Giannis, GiGi, and others here. Many sites unless you say you follow the Nicene Creed you cannot even post.
I understand some Bible verses can support the Trinity doctrine. I can see where in John 10:33 it says they said Jesus blasphemed because "being a man, makest thyself, God". In John 10:22-42 they first asked Jesus "If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" and Jesus said, "I told you, and ye believed not:". So, Jesus told them He was the Messiah, they did not even accept that, but they were not His sheep, because they did not hear His voice.
We see in John 17 that the Father gave Jesus power over all flesh to give eternal life so that they/us might know the only true God and Jesus Christ/the Messiah whom the Father sent. In John 10 Jesus continues saying His Father is greater than all and the works Jesus did were the Father's works, not His, and Jesus said this in John 14:28. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". Jesus also said in John 17 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:34 Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 where the judges of Israel who exercised the authority of God, are gods, gods here is the same Greek word in verses 33 and 36 where it is makest thyself God. In verse 36 Jesus rebukes them "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
What I see the works Jesus did were not His works, but the Father's works done through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was anointed with without measure. That is why Jesus said this, in John 14:17 and John 16:7.
I do thank you for discussing this with me, we can let it rest if you want to.
First, I will say that yes, I do believe in a Triune God. I see several places in the Bible that show that Jesus is God. And, no, a title did not die for my sins either. Jesus Christ dies for my sins. As for the phrases "Son of God," and "Son of the living God," to a Hebrew/Jewish person (which Peter was) it is the same as claiming to be God. Jesus Himself claimed to be the Son of God in front of a Jewish crowd. Was He the Son of God? Indeed, He was.
But why would they accuse Him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God? It's because to them, He was claiming to be God. They understood fully what Jesus was claiming when He said He was the Son of God. You may disagree with this but if you do some research from a Jewish standpoint on those two phrases and what they actually meant to a Hebrew/Jewish person at that time, it becomes clear as to why they accused Jesus of blasphemy when He told them He was the Son of God. To them, He was claiming to be God. At least, that's how they understood it.
I am not able to make the connection that 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 is about the "doctrine" of Jesus being God. It does mention those who preach another Jesus, but where is it saying that this other Jesus being preached comes from those who believe He is God? If that's what it means to preach another Jesus, then I suppose Verse 4 can be reversed to say that those who preach that Jesus is not God are the ones being mentioned here. Although neither of these apply.
I am running out of space so I will send a second short post.
Thank you for that Brother . I agree with you . I do sometimes read things on here that I don't agree with but I have a big problem .
I'm not confident that I can disagree with someone without offending them and I love Brother Jesse as my Brother in Christ .
So , because I don't believe that I'm good enough at expressing myself without offending , I say nothing . You just said it perfectly for me , so , I shall say again thank you . Now I shall be quiet because I have no wish to offend , you manage to say things clearly and inoffensively , I thank God for you !
Hello Jaz. I don't think that a concern of offending someone should preclude you from sharing your understanding of the Word. After all, each one who contributes is essentially stating how he or she understands what is being read & how it applies to them. It's only when one derides another for his/her views then that should be unacceptable & avoided at all costs.
As an example, both you & Ronald have your views on the Deity of Christ (as far as: was Christ in existence before His Birth, or did He become Divine at or after His Birth). Brother Ronald and I have had some discussion on this before, & only he, along with one other from years ago, were prepared to give their understanding of John 1:1. In my understanding of that verse, & adjoining verses, their interpretation did not make sense to me, but obviously it was as clear as day to them. So, we have two choices: to further exegete that passage or to let the matter lie. If we do proceed with it, we can still be civil, understanding & reflective to what each one presents. At the end, we may not be convinced, for whatever reason, but the value (both personal & community-wise) is great, since we are compelled to test our understanding of the Word & use what we gain when considering other passages related to the subject. So, don't be hindered because of fear of offending someone; simply present what you believe & with supporting Scriptures, why you hold to that belief. If you cannot take the matter further for whatever reason, feel free to excuse yourself. That's how I approach such discussions, though I do admit that I do enjoy probing further to learn more of the belief of others. Blessings.
Thank you, I also consider Jesse a brother in Christ. I hope he will not be offended from what I replied to him. It is my understanding not against him. We are all on a journey and the Holy Spirit is our guide. This subject many will not discuss and I am grateful Jesse and others on this site is open to discuss it.
Matthew 15:22 - And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
First of all, she is a Gentile, a Canaanite woman. Secondly, notice her plea: She says, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. Literally, "my daughter is severely demonized." That is the literal translation from the Greek text. Interesting!
Matthew 16:8 - Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
And when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith. Now I want to share this with you. Where it says "O ye of little faith," that is all one word in the Greek text, and it is a title. To have "little faith" is to have no faith!
Matthew 14:9 - And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.
Herod was sorry. I want to share something about this word "sorry" because sometimes people say sorry, and we just take it as a grain of salt, and we move on. But the Greek word used in this verse is the word LUPAY, which means that he was literally grieved. Not just sorry, but literally he grieved! But he gave the commandment because he had to in front of all of his friends.
Matthew 14:26 - And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
The word spirit in Greek is PHANTASMA, and it where we get our English word phantom from. They thought He was a ghost. It is not the word for spirit. It is the word for ghost. They thought He was a ghost and they cried out.
Matthew 14:27 - But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
But straightway, or immediately, Jesus spake unto them saying, be of good cheer. Literally be of courage. He didn't mean be happy. He just meant, have some courage here guys!
But please notice this. Jesus says it is I, except in the Greek it doesn't say it is I. It says AYGO AYMI, or I AM, and that's the name of God, Jehovah God in the Old Testament. He says, be of courage, I AM! Do not be afraid!
Matthew 14:28 - And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
Peter answered and said unto him, Lord, if it be thou, and in the Greek text that is called the first-class condition assumed to be true. What Peter is saying is "Since it's you. And please notice as a side note that the storm is still going. It hasn't stopped. Some people lose that as they read through it.
Matthew 13:5 - Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
The Greek word for "stony places" is PETRODAY, and it actually means a slab. It does not mean that the soil was mixed up with rocks. It means that there was a slab, or a foundation stone underneath the soil, some kind of limestone or foundation stone underneath the dirt. And the seed would hit the dirt, and as all plants do, it would try to burrow itself. And then as all grass and plants do, they naturally try to spread root and establish a root system before they start cropping up on the top. This seed only has enough to be caught in the dirt. But it has nowhere to go for a root system.
Matthew 13:21 - Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
The phrase "by and by" is one word in the Greek (EUTHUS) that means Immediately. Properly translated "immediately, he is offended."
Matthew 13:25 - But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
A tare is what is called in the Greek ZIDZANIA, which means that it is actually black wheat. It looks exactly the same as wheat in its stalk as it grows, but when it gets to the time to blossom, the fruit of the wheat seed, some are black, and some are not. Now the ZIDZANIA (the tares), they are poisonous.
They used to feed those to their livestock because it's not good for food for people. But the animals started dying, and they began to realize that they were poisonous. All of a sudden you have got a good crop of wheat growing, but you have also got these tares growing with it.
So, the enemy came in, and sometimes they would do that to each other, is that a farmer would be growing his wheat, and then his enemy farmer down the street comes in the night and puts in tares, just to give them a bad crop.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This is one of the great verses in the bible, and probably the most debated verse in the bible, so we'll skip it. No, just kidding!
First of all, Jesus says "thou art Peter." The Greek word for Peter is PETROS, which means a small rock or stone. The word for rock that was used for Jesus is PETRA. It looks like they are from the same word. One is masculine and one is feminine. PETRA is a massive rock, a foundation stone.
So, we are talking about a little pebble. That is what PETROS is. And a PETRA is like a cement slab, a foundation. The two words are not even close in identification. And so, people argue and debate and say, thou art Peter, PETROS, and upon this rock PETRA, I will build my church. They say that since it is not the same word as Peter, then maybe PETRA refers to his confession, that everybody that makes the confession that Peter made they will be the ones that will make up the church.
Others say that it makes reference to Peter and that the church is based or built on Peter, and that he's the foundation of the church. Religious groups held up this view for many, many years. At least one group still does.
Well, what is interesting here is that PETRA, and we are just going to follow the word PETRA, because PETROS is for Peter. That is it. In 1 Corinthians 10:4, concerning the children of Israel going through the wilderness, Paul says, and they did all drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that spiritual rock, PETRA, that followed them and that rock, PETRA, was Christ. So, PETRA was Christ 1 Corinthians 10:4.
I just returned home from the road and just copied and printed the material.
I will be reading them and adding them to my study.
You're time and effort is appreciated and will not be wasted.
Thanks again and God bless!
Matthew 16:16 - And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Some people say, "wait a minute, it says Son of God!"
Something very important to understand:
There are a few Greek words in the New Testament for the word son. The verb form to give birth is TIKTO. The noun form that names the child that has experienced the birth is called a TEKNON.
So, people go from door-to-door, and they tell you that Jesus can't be God because He was the Son of God. And as a son, He had to be born. And they also say that not only is there God the Father, but there has to be god the mother because you can't have a son unless you have a father and a mother. They say that God the Father and god the mother are in heaven and Jesus is their son. And the son can't be the Father, they can't be the same people. Good grief!
Well, you got to love the Greek because this word for son has nothing to do with birth. It is the word HUIOS. Jesus is never called a TEKNON in the scriptures. TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. He is in line to inherit the estate. And what happened was Jesus said that He came as the Son, and the Father has given all things into His hands. Everybody is going to have to answer to Jesus Christ!
When He said, "the Son of the living God," that's a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
Matthew 16:17 - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
The term bar Jonah, bar is the word son in Aramaic. So, He says Simon the son of Jonah. He says blessed art thou, and there's our word MAKARIOS we saw in the beatitudes.
It means to experience the fullness of something. He's telling Peter that you have been illuminated, enlightened, and it is a revelation from God.
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
Thanks and God bless.
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
Blessings to you!
Jesse, please don't take this wrong I care, and I am trying to understand. I have read your posts on Matthew and some of it is helpful, but I do not agree with your understanding of the meaning you give on some of the Greek words.
In Matthew 16:16 you are saying when Peter told Jesus He is the Son of the living God Peter is confessing to Jesus, that He is the Messiah and He is God. You also say Son of the Living God is a title of God, sorry I don't agree with that. I understand you and probably most on this site believe in a triune God and that Jesus is God, I am sorry, but a title did not die for my sins.
God cannot be the Messiah, if we deny Jesus is the Christ/Messiah we are a liar and an antichrist. The one who does that also denies the Father and the Son, 1 John 2:22.
The heart and truth of the gospel is Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, a man born of a virgin whose Father is God conceived by the Holy Ghost with flesh and blood who God the Father sent, John 3:16. Who became the Messiah when He was anointed with the Holy Ghost after John the Baptise baptized Him. He died for our sins, and we are to confess Him and believe He is the Son of God, 1 John 4:15 1 John 5:10. In the Son of God Jesus is our faith and the only hope of salvation. Jesus is the one Moses spoke of Deuteronomy 18:15
My understanding is 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 is about this doctrine; I know you and others on here will not agree.
God bless,
RLW
(Part 2):
Secondly, I want to assure both you and Jaz that you have not and will not offend me by disagreeing with anything I say. Does it offend either of you when I disagree? It shouldn't! We all come here to share our understanding of scripture. Are we to expect that everything we say here will always be agreed upon by everyone? I would hope not. If we disagree, we just disagree. And that is okay. For me personally, I admit that there's always that possibility that I can be wrong. Not too many people will say this about themselves. I also think that even though we may disagree with each other on something, there is that possibility that we might both be wrong.
But no, I will never be offended if either of you (or anyone else for that matter) disagrees with me. If we're being rude to each other while disagreeing, that's a different story. But I'm only doing the same thing that you and everyone else here is doing which is sharing my understanding of what I've studied. We are human. None of us are infallible in our understanding. There will always be disagreement from someone no matter what we share. Not related to our discussion here, but years ago on a different website, I posted an exact quote from the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. I never even added my understanding, just quoted word for word a piece of scripture from the Bible. And guess what? Someone disagreed with it. Go figure!
Blessings to you both in Christ!
Thank you, brother, I agree, giving our understanding even if we do not agree cannot be offensive. My understanding of Scripture has grown from discussions we have here, I have benefitted from you, S Spencer, Chris, Giannis, GiGi, and others here. Many sites unless you say you follow the Nicene Creed you cannot even post.
I understand some Bible verses can support the Trinity doctrine. I can see where in John 10:33 it says they said Jesus blasphemed because "being a man, makest thyself, God". In John 10:22-42 they first asked Jesus "If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly" and Jesus said, "I told you, and ye believed not:". So, Jesus told them He was the Messiah, they did not even accept that, but they were not His sheep, because they did not hear His voice.
We see in John 17 that the Father gave Jesus power over all flesh to give eternal life so that they/us might know the only true God and Jesus Christ/the Messiah whom the Father sent. In John 10 Jesus continues saying His Father is greater than all and the works Jesus did were the Father's works, not His, and Jesus said this in John 14:28. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one". Jesus also said in John 17 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 10:34 Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 where the judges of Israel who exercised the authority of God, are gods, gods here is the same Greek word in verses 33 and 36 where it is makest thyself God. In verse 36 Jesus rebukes them "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
What I see the works Jesus did were not His works, but the Father's works done through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was anointed with without measure. That is why Jesus said this, in John 14:17 and John 16:7.
I do thank you for discussing this with me, we can let it rest if you want to.
God bless,
RLW
(Part 1):
First, I will say that yes, I do believe in a Triune God. I see several places in the Bible that show that Jesus is God. And, no, a title did not die for my sins either. Jesus Christ dies for my sins. As for the phrases "Son of God," and "Son of the living God," to a Hebrew/Jewish person (which Peter was) it is the same as claiming to be God. Jesus Himself claimed to be the Son of God in front of a Jewish crowd. Was He the Son of God? Indeed, He was.
But why would they accuse Him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God? It's because to them, He was claiming to be God. They understood fully what Jesus was claiming when He said He was the Son of God. You may disagree with this but if you do some research from a Jewish standpoint on those two phrases and what they actually meant to a Hebrew/Jewish person at that time, it becomes clear as to why they accused Jesus of blasphemy when He told them He was the Son of God. To them, He was claiming to be God. At least, that's how they understood it.
I am not able to make the connection that 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 is about the "doctrine" of Jesus being God. It does mention those who preach another Jesus, but where is it saying that this other Jesus being preached comes from those who believe He is God? If that's what it means to preach another Jesus, then I suppose Verse 4 can be reversed to say that those who preach that Jesus is not God are the ones being mentioned here. Although neither of these apply.
I am running out of space so I will send a second short post.
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I'm not confident that I can disagree with someone without offending them and I love Brother Jesse as my Brother in Christ .
So , because I don't believe that I'm good enough at expressing myself without offending , I say nothing . You just said it perfectly for me , so , I shall say again thank you . Now I shall be quiet because I have no wish to offend , you manage to say things clearly and inoffensively , I thank God for you !
As an example, both you & Ronald have your views on the Deity of Christ (as far as: was Christ in existence before His Birth, or did He become Divine at or after His Birth). Brother Ronald and I have had some discussion on this before, & only he, along with one other from years ago, were prepared to give their understanding of John 1:1. In my understanding of that verse, & adjoining verses, their interpretation did not make sense to me, but obviously it was as clear as day to them. So, we have two choices: to further exegete that passage or to let the matter lie. If we do proceed with it, we can still be civil, understanding & reflective to what each one presents. At the end, we may not be convinced, for whatever reason, but the value (both personal & community-wise) is great, since we are compelled to test our understanding of the Word & use what we gain when considering other passages related to the subject. So, don't be hindered because of fear of offending someone; simply present what you believe & with supporting Scriptures, why you hold to that belief. If you cannot take the matter further for whatever reason, feel free to excuse yourself. That's how I approach such discussions, though I do admit that I do enjoy probing further to learn more of the belief of others. Blessings.
Thank you, I also consider Jesse a brother in Christ. I hope he will not be offended from what I replied to him. It is my understanding not against him. We are all on a journey and the Holy Spirit is our guide. This subject many will not discuss and I am grateful Jesse and others on this site is open to discuss it.
God bless,
RLW
Matthew 15:22 - And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
First of all, she is a Gentile, a Canaanite woman. Secondly, notice her plea: She says, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. Literally, "my daughter is severely demonized." That is the literal translation from the Greek text. Interesting!
Matthew 16:8 - Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
And when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith. Now I want to share this with you. Where it says "O ye of little faith," that is all one word in the Greek text, and it is a title. To have "little faith" is to have no faith!
Matthew 14:9 - And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.
Herod was sorry. I want to share something about this word "sorry" because sometimes people say sorry, and we just take it as a grain of salt, and we move on. But the Greek word used in this verse is the word LUPAY, which means that he was literally grieved. Not just sorry, but literally he grieved! But he gave the commandment because he had to in front of all of his friends.
Matthew 14:26 - And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
The word spirit in Greek is PHANTASMA, and it where we get our English word phantom from. They thought He was a ghost. It is not the word for spirit. It is the word for ghost. They thought He was a ghost and they cried out.
Matthew 14:27 - But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
But straightway, or immediately, Jesus spake unto them saying, be of good cheer. Literally be of courage. He didn't mean be happy. He just meant, have some courage here guys!
But please notice this. Jesus says it is I, except in the Greek it doesn't say it is I. It says AYGO AYMI, or I AM, and that's the name of God, Jehovah God in the Old Testament. He says, be of courage, I AM! Do not be afraid!
Matthew 14:28 - And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
Peter answered and said unto him, Lord, if it be thou, and in the Greek text that is called the first-class condition assumed to be true. What Peter is saying is "Since it's you. And please notice as a side note that the storm is still going. It hasn't stopped. Some people lose that as they read through it.
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