The great catch of fish story appears to have a very positive message, but does it? Sunday school classes seem to teach that Simon's great catch of fish was a miracle given by Jesus to show how Jesus has special powers that he, in this instance, is using to convince a number of would-be disciples to follow him. It is often plays into the prosperity doctrine that belief in Jesus will bring us a great catch of (fill in the blank). And this story of Jesus would seem to support that message. However, I do not believe that is a proper interpretation at all.
At the beginning of the chapter we see a scene of Simon fixing his nets, tired, and fishless. Jesus is not far away, preaching to the multitudes but yet Simon does not seem interested. Jesus singles Simon out and asks him to sail off into the deep waters and to throw his net out again. Simon agrees, reluctantly, but does it anyway which may be one of the few high points of this story. He has enough faith in this unknown rabbi to at least humor him. Perhaps it was the persuasion of the other disciples that convinced him, but regardless, he consented.
Things went downhill from there. While fishing in the deep (not the shallows) Jesus gave him more of his idol than he could handle. The fish broke his nets and their weight began to sink the boat. Simon likely realized that most of the fish would rot at the dock. In his panic, he asked Jesus to leave him. A reluctant Simon took a chance on this rabbi and now is losing his livelihood and possibly his life. In his desperation, Simon pleads with Jesus for his physical salvation by addressing his sinful spiritual depravity.
We know that the disciples were afraid because after arriving back on land, Jesus said, "Fear not". We end this story with the disciples giving up their lives for Jesus. Why? A lot happened here. Simon may be now boatless, his entire livelihood is gone. What are his options?
I don't understand the use of extra embellishments added to the scripture .
I give my explanation of my understanding of what I think when I read those two passages . You can ignore my explanation , read the two passages as I said , one after the other , and see what you think .
Yes , of course Jesus is reinstating Peter , as you rightly said . You also said this was the traditional teaching , is the traditional teaching not an extra embellishment ?
All words that are not scripture are extra embellishments , or maybe they are explanations of the person who is giving them .
Explanations ? Embellishments ? You may choose the right word , you can also choose to ignore my embellishments , read the two passages for yourself and make your own mind up . I am genuinely sorry if my words have offended you , I thought that I was just explaining my thoughts on these two passages and how I see them as being linked . Please forgive me .
Compare Luke chapter 5 verses 1-11 with the last chapter of the Gospel of John . Read them one after the other . Anything strike you ? Bearing in mind that everything , absolutely everything is done according to God's Will and plan .
Do you see now ? In Luke , it's the beginning of Peters relationship with Jesus , Peter is a married man , he has a family to feed , if he doesn't fish they don't eat . Jesus is saying to Peter , don't worry about that , I will feed them and you and you will feed others , don't worry about the things of this life , follow me , your family will be fine .
In the last chapter of John we see Peter again , fishing to feed his family , re embroiled in the practicalities of this life , Jesus is dead , the disciples lives must go on . Jesus provides the fish again ! Showing Peter , reminding him of their first meeting ! Three times Jesus says to Peter : feed my lambs , feed my sheep ! Don't you remember ? I said that to you the first time we met ! Jesus's last words to Peter in the last chapter of John : follow thou me ! Do you now see the connection between those two events ?
I never said that when Jesus asks Peter if he loves him three times , that this incident wasn't connected to Peters three times denial of Jesus . I wouldn't say that because it's so obviously true .
I don't seem to be able to win on this site . If I just give people scripture references , no one seems to understand why I gave them without some sort of explanation . If I do try to put a bit of exposition in there to try to make myself clearer and explain why I say what I do , I'm doing wrong also .
I'm sorry you don't see it my way . Maybe I'm way off the mark here . Good bye and may God bless you all .
To understand why Jesus asks Peter three times the same question one must examine the question itself.
Jesus asks Peter "Do you love me more than these?". These who? Many people think that Jesus means the other disciples. But why would Jesus ask such a question to Peter? Did Jesus use a scale for His disciples' love to Him? Did Peter actually love Jesus more than the rest? Did Jesus ask him to confirm his love to Him which was bigger than the others? If Jesus actually meant that it would had been an insult to the others.
The "these" is the ship, the nets, the fish, the material things, Peter's life before meeting Jesus. When they followed Jesus they abandoned their profession. And now Peter goes back and he drags 6 more disciples with him into that. But Jesus didn't call them for that, for going fishing. They had to be in prayers to receive the Holy Spirit. They have a mission now. The ship, the fish is the past. The future is their mission. "Peter do you love me more than your previous life which you left when you met me? If you really do love more than it then please understand that you have a mission now, to feed my sheep, this is what you have to do now, leave your ship away, I will take care of you now, didn't you see how mush fish you just gathered?"
Peter seems not to fully realize what Jesus is trying to tell him. Like us who sometimes do not get what God tries hard to make us realize, to make us understand what our christian life really means, what comes next when we believe in Christ. To abandon
everything that we love that may become an obstacle in our christian path. So Jesus asks him again and again until Peter finally gets what Jesus means.
I believe Jesus asking Peter 3 times was not because Peter denied Him 3 times and now had to cofirm his loyalty 3 times. I don't think that God plays such games.
If we love God more than other things in our life and try to live righteously God will provide for us the necessary for a living.
Thanks for your reply , it was a good read . In case you haven't been following the thread , my main point wasn't much to do with Jesus asking Peter if he loves him , that was the person I was talking to who was posting about that but no matter , I enjoyed your message and thank you for it . So you think it was just a coincidence that Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus asks Peter if he loves him three times ? Bearing in mind Luke chapter 17 verses 3+4?
I believe that denying that you know Jesus is stated in the Bible as a sin , if we deny him he will deny us , so....Luke chapter 17 verse 3+4 ?
I do think that Jesus asks Peter three times because Peter sinned against Jesus three times by denying that he knew him and Jesus is giving Peter the prompt to repent of that sin so that Peter is forgiven for it . Repentance is never a game , it's a very real and necessary part of God's plan of salvation for us , in Christ .
That incident with the apostles going fishing took place many days after Jesus's resurrection. So should I assume that all that time since Jesus firstly appeared to them when He resurrected, Peter had not yet repented? He saw the Lord, he was living with the rest, he met Jesus many times and talked to Him, but still didn't repent? And it was at that time that he repented?
It doesn't seem right to me. So why did Peter cry after he denied Jesus when Jesus was captured by the Jews? Weren't his tears, tears of repentance?
That incident reminds me a lot what I often do to my son. When I want to advise him about something and I know that he will not pay much attention and he will take me lightly, quick to finish and go, then I keep telling him the same thing many times until I understand that my words have stuck in his head. "So Alex do you understand what I am saying? Yes father, no need to tell me one more time. OK then, let me tell you one more time (to make absolutely sure that you realy got it)." And my son often gets angry about me repeating it, but for me it is a sure thing that he gets what I am saying and that my words will stay in his mind. Similarly Jesus kept telling Peter the same thing until Peter really thought and considered what Jesus was telling him. It seems it was the third time that Peter really understood that his life from now on was not boats and fish and waste of time and energy in other unnecessary things, but a mission. And we see that after Jesus ascended to heaven all the apostles behaved in a mature way whereas before sometimes they behaved childish.
About Jesus denying us when we deny Him, I think it refers to those who deny Him for a lifetime, not under a difficult situation. We are humans, soil, dust, and we often fall when a challenge comes to our life, Of course Jesus doesn't deny us. Does a father deny a child? But if we get to know Him and then deny Him wholy in our life then in the Judgement He will deny us.
These are just my conclusions on these incidents . We see in the last chapter of John that the Apostles ( though they weren't yet Apostles officially ) had gone back to their normal ways of life , earning a living etc . So this is before their commission to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom had been made known to them . Before they embarked on the work that God wanted them to do , they had to be clean , spiritually clean . Peter had his denial lingering over him , his conscience would have troubled him for sure . If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive . This was Peters cleansing ,for his own benefit , his conscience needed clearing so he could go forward with confidence , in faith and in power . Psychologically , guilt is a terrible monster , we must have faith in the forgiveness of God through Christ , guilt can literally drive us into awful despair and even madness . Peter needed to know that he was forgiven , psychologically it was very important . I'm sure that when Jesus asked him that question : lovest thou me ? ,and he answered it in the affermative , his heart would have lifted to the stars with joy and he would have understood why Jesus asked him three times , his denial would have been torturing every day since . We must not forget when reading the Bible that we are reading about human beings , so we can often bring our own experiences and understanding of our own human nature to the Words of God and just sometimes , we get little glimpses of the humanity of others when we look at ourselves and how we might have responded , reacted , felt , behaved etc .
No worries Brother , I'm a tough old boot and not easily offended . I am a bit troubled if I feel I might have inadvertently offended a brother or sister so I do sincerely apologize if that's the case . I hope we can both help each other along the path to Our Father's Kingdom .
The best way to get out of the Bible is as with learning to swim: take the plunge. The word of God is mighty but it is very user friendly. Begin with Gospels and read in order to understand where the story leads to. There are no loose ends with the love of God. It is expressed in terms of persons, places and events. When you take in what you have read it must be clear: no place is more precious to Him than your heart. Revere him for all His promises . Let not others mislead you with their ignorance. The word of God is like a lamp unto your feet. Walk by that light. May God help you.
The great catch of fish story appears to have a very positive message, but does it? Sunday school classes seem to teach that Simon's great catch of fish was a miracle given by Jesus to show how Jesus has special powers that he, in this instance, is using to convince a number of would-be disciples to follow him. It is often plays into the prosperity doctrine that belief in Jesus will bring us a great catch of (fill in the blank). And this story of Jesus would seem to support that message. However, I do not believe that is a proper interpretation at all.
At the beginning of the chapter we see a scene of Simon fixing his nets, tired, and fishless. Jesus is not far away, preaching to the multitudes but yet Simon does not seem interested. Jesus singles Simon out and asks him to sail off into the deep waters and to throw his net out again. Simon agrees, reluctantly, but does it anyway which may be one of the few high points of this story. He has enough faith in this unknown rabbi to at least humor him. Perhaps it was the persuasion of the other disciples that convinced him, but regardless, he consented.
Things went downhill from there. While fishing in the deep (not the shallows) Jesus gave him more of his idol than he could handle. The fish broke his nets and their weight began to sink the boat. Simon likely realized that most of the fish would rot at the dock. In his panic, he asked Jesus to leave him. A reluctant Simon took a chance on this rabbi and now is losing his livelihood and possibly his life. In his desperation, Simon pleads with Jesus for his physical salvation by addressing his sinful spiritual depravity.
We know that the disciples were afraid because after arriving back on land, Jesus said, "Fear not". We end this story with the disciples giving up their lives for Jesus. Why? A lot happened here. Simon may be now boatless, his entire livelihood is gone. What are his options?
I give my explanation of my understanding of what I think when I read those two passages . You can ignore my explanation , read the two passages as I said , one after the other , and see what you think .
Yes , of course Jesus is reinstating Peter , as you rightly said . You also said this was the traditional teaching , is the traditional teaching not an extra embellishment ?
All words that are not scripture are extra embellishments , or maybe they are explanations of the person who is giving them .
Explanations ? Embellishments ? You may choose the right word , you can also choose to ignore my embellishments , read the two passages for yourself and make your own mind up . I am genuinely sorry if my words have offended you , I thought that I was just explaining my thoughts on these two passages and how I see them as being linked . Please forgive me .
Do you see now ? In Luke , it's the beginning of Peters relationship with Jesus , Peter is a married man , he has a family to feed , if he doesn't fish they don't eat . Jesus is saying to Peter , don't worry about that , I will feed them and you and you will feed others , don't worry about the things of this life , follow me , your family will be fine .
In the last chapter of John we see Peter again , fishing to feed his family , re embroiled in the practicalities of this life , Jesus is dead , the disciples lives must go on . Jesus provides the fish again ! Showing Peter , reminding him of their first meeting ! Three times Jesus says to Peter : feed my lambs , feed my sheep ! Don't you remember ? I said that to you the first time we met ! Jesus's last words to Peter in the last chapter of John : follow thou me ! Do you now see the connection between those two events ?
[Comment Removed]
I don't seem to be able to win on this site . If I just give people scripture references , no one seems to understand why I gave them without some sort of explanation . If I do try to put a bit of exposition in there to try to make myself clearer and explain why I say what I do , I'm doing wrong also .
I'm sorry you don't see it my way . Maybe I'm way off the mark here . Good bye and may God bless you all .
To understand why Jesus asks Peter three times the same question one must examine the question itself.
Jesus asks Peter "Do you love me more than these?". These who? Many people think that Jesus means the other disciples. But why would Jesus ask such a question to Peter? Did Jesus use a scale for His disciples' love to Him? Did Peter actually love Jesus more than the rest? Did Jesus ask him to confirm his love to Him which was bigger than the others? If Jesus actually meant that it would had been an insult to the others.
The "these" is the ship, the nets, the fish, the material things, Peter's life before meeting Jesus. When they followed Jesus they abandoned their profession. And now Peter goes back and he drags 6 more disciples with him into that. But Jesus didn't call them for that, for going fishing. They had to be in prayers to receive the Holy Spirit. They have a mission now. The ship, the fish is the past. The future is their mission. "Peter do you love me more than your previous life which you left when you met me? If you really do love more than it then please understand that you have a mission now, to feed my sheep, this is what you have to do now, leave your ship away, I will take care of you now, didn't you see how mush fish you just gathered?"
Peter seems not to fully realize what Jesus is trying to tell him. Like us who sometimes do not get what God tries hard to make us realize, to make us understand what our christian life really means, what comes next when we believe in Christ. To abandon
everything that we love that may become an obstacle in our christian path. So Jesus asks him again and again until Peter finally gets what Jesus means.
I believe Jesus asking Peter 3 times was not because Peter denied Him 3 times and now had to cofirm his loyalty 3 times. I don't think that God plays such games.
If we love God more than other things in our life and try to live righteously God will provide for us the necessary for a living.
I believe that denying that you know Jesus is stated in the Bible as a sin , if we deny him he will deny us , so....Luke chapter 17 verse 3+4 ?
I do think that Jesus asks Peter three times because Peter sinned against Jesus three times by denying that he knew him and Jesus is giving Peter the prompt to repent of that sin so that Peter is forgiven for it . Repentance is never a game , it's a very real and necessary part of God's plan of salvation for us , in Christ .
That incident with the apostles going fishing took place many days after Jesus's resurrection. So should I assume that all that time since Jesus firstly appeared to them when He resurrected, Peter had not yet repented? He saw the Lord, he was living with the rest, he met Jesus many times and talked to Him, but still didn't repent? And it was at that time that he repented?
It doesn't seem right to me. So why did Peter cry after he denied Jesus when Jesus was captured by the Jews? Weren't his tears, tears of repentance?
That incident reminds me a lot what I often do to my son. When I want to advise him about something and I know that he will not pay much attention and he will take me lightly, quick to finish and go, then I keep telling him the same thing many times until I understand that my words have stuck in his head. "So Alex do you understand what I am saying? Yes father, no need to tell me one more time. OK then, let me tell you one more time (to make absolutely sure that you realy got it)." And my son often gets angry about me repeating it, but for me it is a sure thing that he gets what I am saying and that my words will stay in his mind. Similarly Jesus kept telling Peter the same thing until Peter really thought and considered what Jesus was telling him. It seems it was the third time that Peter really understood that his life from now on was not boats and fish and waste of time and energy in other unnecessary things, but a mission. And we see that after Jesus ascended to heaven all the apostles behaved in a mature way whereas before sometimes they behaved childish.
About Jesus denying us when we deny Him, I think it refers to those who deny Him for a lifetime, not under a difficult situation. We are humans, soil, dust, and we often fall when a challenge comes to our life, Of course Jesus doesn't deny us. Does a father deny a child? But if we get to know Him and then deny Him wholy in our life then in the Judgement He will deny us.
[Comment Removed]
The best way to get out of the Bible is as with learning to swim: take the plunge. The word of God is mighty but it is very user friendly. Begin with Gospels and read in order to understand where the story leads to. There are no loose ends with the love of God. It is expressed in terms of persons, places and events. When you take in what you have read it must be clear: no place is more precious to Him than your heart. Revere him for all His promises . Let not others mislead you with their ignorance. The word of God is like a lamp unto your feet. Walk by that light. May God help you.
[Comment Removed]
[Comment Removed]
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