The thrust of what Paul is getting across in 1 Timothy 2:4 is that we should never forsake praying for someone because they belong to a certain class, group, or culture. No "tribe" is too far from God that He cannot save them, so pray with all diligence for God to move His sovereign hand and save."
And finally, I include this excerpt from John Piper:
If "all people" refers to every person without exception, then universalism is our conclusion only if God's desire to save is absolute. But the Lord desires one thing more than the salvation of all - His glory ( Isa. 48:11). In one sense, God can truly want all who have ever lived to be saved; however, this desire always defers to His will to glorify Himself, the will in view when the Bible says His will is always done. The Lord is glorified when sin is punished in hell, and so God's supreme desire is met even when people are not redeemed.
At this point, I will take this up in a day or two to give time for readers to consider this question for themselves. Then I will continue with how I understand this topic.
Thanks GiGi for this further submission on "Will all be saved?". That was very interesting to read, even as you shared from the writings of those men. There was much I could agree with, and of course, some things that could be debated.
But if I was to narrow down onto one particular 'stand-out' for me from those ten parts, it would be Romans 9:14-23 (as given). Whereas I would have actually referenced the whole subject matter given in Romans 9:1-24: where the apostle was speaking about Israel, examples from their history, God's Intervention, an imagined question proffered, & finally to Gentiles who would also be recipients of God's Mercy & riches. Blessings.
I went to "Are All Saved" because of the groups of Scriptures that speak to God desiring all to come to salvation. These verses seem to imply that this is God's ultimate will or sovereign decree, which would mean that all humans are saved (universalism). Knowing that Scripture speaks of many going the "wide way" that leads to destruction and that all who are not written in the Book of Life will be judged and enter the Lake of Fire forever, these thoughts made me seek deeper understanding of this topic. I did find some good explanations and am considering each of them against Scripture. Sometimes, paradoxes are revealed in Scripture. And this topic may be one of those or the way it has been interpreted literally but superficially may bring us to err in thinking. May the Lord bless us with right understanding as we grow in grace and knowledge of God, our Father, Jesus, God our Savior, and the Holy Spirit, our Life-giving God, all whom are unified One whom we worship.
'
I'll be getting back to posting on this topic in a day or two. Please record your questions for me as you see fit and then present them to me at the appropriate time. Even more so, I appreciate anyone who is willing to present a cohesive explanation of their soteriology as I am doing here. It is such an important aspect of our faith and doctrine and thus deserves a serious, thoughtful, and Scripture based treatment.
Pt. 10
The thrust of what Paul is getting across in 1 Timothy 2:4 is that we should never forsake praying for someone because they belong to a certain class, group, or culture. No "tribe" is too far from God that He cannot save them, so pray with all diligence for God to move His sovereign hand and save."
And finally, I include this excerpt from John Piper:
If "all people" refers to every person without exception, then universalism is our conclusion only if God's desire to save is absolute. But the Lord desires one thing more than the salvation of all - His glory ( Isa. 48:11). In one sense, God can truly want all who have ever lived to be saved; however, this desire always defers to His will to glorify Himself, the will in view when the Bible says His will is always done. The Lord is glorified when sin is punished in hell, and so God's supreme desire is met even when people are not redeemed.
At this point, I will take this up in a day or two to give time for readers to consider this question for themselves. Then I will continue with how I understand this topic.
But if I was to narrow down onto one particular 'stand-out' for me from those ten parts, it would be Romans 9:14-23 (as given). Whereas I would have actually referenced the whole subject matter given in Romans 9:1-24: where the apostle was speaking about Israel, examples from their history, God's Intervention, an imagined question proffered, & finally to Gentiles who would also be recipients of God's Mercy & riches. Blessings.
I went to "Are All Saved" because of the groups of Scriptures that speak to God desiring all to come to salvation. These verses seem to imply that this is God's ultimate will or sovereign decree, which would mean that all humans are saved (universalism). Knowing that Scripture speaks of many going the "wide way" that leads to destruction and that all who are not written in the Book of Life will be judged and enter the Lake of Fire forever, these thoughts made me seek deeper understanding of this topic. I did find some good explanations and am considering each of them against Scripture. Sometimes, paradoxes are revealed in Scripture. And this topic may be one of those or the way it has been interpreted literally but superficially may bring us to err in thinking. May the Lord bless us with right understanding as we grow in grace and knowledge of God, our Father, Jesus, God our Savior, and the Holy Spirit, our Life-giving God, all whom are unified One whom we worship.
'
I'll be getting back to posting on this topic in a day or two. Please record your questions for me as you see fit and then present them to me at the appropriate time. Even more so, I appreciate anyone who is willing to present a cohesive explanation of their soteriology as I am doing here. It is such an important aspect of our faith and doctrine and thus deserves a serious, thoughtful, and Scripture based treatment.
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?