Tewmardew, I hope you found the answer to your question about the woman being a preacher. If a woman wants to be a Christian and follow God's word, then she should know the doctrine we should be following today. Apostle Paul was chosen from the ascended Jesus Christ for to spread the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles and Jews are welcome . So a woman should be reading Romans through Philemon for doctrine and pray continually everyday for God to speak to her .
Please enjoy this verse .
Proverbs 31:30
Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may a woman be saved by this gospel
Apostle Paul could not trust his kinsmen or people that spoke the word twisted. They sound and look holy .
2 Corinthians 11:13
For such arefalseapostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Apostle Paul had friends that betrayed him.
2 Corinthians 11:26
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils amongfalsebrethren;
Galatians 2:4
And that because offalsebrethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Be careful of Satan. UFO looks beautiful in the sky's and now the news talks about it.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into anangeloflight.
We must be careful for the ones closest to us that may be deceiving us with the twisted word.
Philippians 4:6
Becarefulfornothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requestsbemade known unto God.
Saint Peter told his people go to Apostle Paul for Salvation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 .
2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brotherPaulalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may God bless you in this GOSPEL
Paul teaches that women are not to be overseers (pastors) or teachers over men. These are official appointments in a church.
So I do not think that women should be ordained as ministers. I do think that all Christians, men or women, are called to help each other grow in our Scripture knowledge, holy living, and faith, among other things. We are to be examples to, encourage, admonish, instruct, correct, evangelize, and share the gospel message with others. As believers, I think we should pray to be opened to receiving all of these things from whomever God uses to do these things regardless of age, sex, social status, or financial state.
That said, I think that in congregations, men can teach Bible Study to men, women, and children. But women should teach Bible study only to women and children. If someone chooses to have an independent Bible study in their own home, then I think that anyone can attend regardless of if the host is a man or woman. But I do think that we all should be careful to be on guard against inordinate affections and connections with people we are not married to. So, it is best if couples attend together.
Each believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling them and the Spirit works in and through each believer to accomplish His intended purpose. We should act in accordance with the what Scripture teaches and also be keeping in step with the Holy Spirit as He guides each of us and helps us to know the Lord better and others to know the Lord better.
You stated that Paul teaches that women are not to be overseers (pastors) or teachers over men. These are official appointments in church. I never seen that in the bible. He stated that the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law states. That does not mean that a woman is not to preach or teach or be over a man. During this time that Paul is teaching the church of Corinth where Paul is writing a letter to the Church about unruly women telling them to be quiet and ask their husband after church. Telling someone to be quiet don't mean they can't preach, oversee, or teach over a man. You have Joel 2:28 says and it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and daughters shall prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams your young men see visions. as well as Acts chapter 2: 17 that states and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God. I will pour out upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young man shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. This is what the Prophet Joel and the Dr Luke spoke of. Paul never said those words, but he also taught even when behind bars. We women are called to preach call to preach we have a personal relationship with God and our walk is in important as well especially us single women if we don't have a husband who are we going to talk to and not worry about a man who may make a pass at us we walk in our callings and wil continute to lead as we hear God still small voice.
1st Timothy 3rd chapter talks about the qualifications of a Bishop and a Deacon it does not say a woman not supposed to be over a man. I knew you was going there with no other proof. You can bring those scriptures up, but you can overlook Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens, I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. And it come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. You do know that brethren mean siters as well. The Old Testament conceals, and the New Testament reveals women are used to lead and spread the gospel so come again cause if that's all you got.
Just to clarify, Evangelist1. The reference to Joel 2:28 & what the Apostle Peter referenced to in his preaching in Acts 2:18, was Israel-specific. I'm not at all suggesting that the spirit of Prophecy, & other gifts, have not been designated to Christ's Church as well, but those references were (& are) for Israel only (as in "your sons" & "your daughters"). When you read Joel 2:28-32, the message is clearly directed to Israel's future repentance & deliverance before that great & awful Day of the Lord arrives. That is still in the future for them & the world.
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
How was it Isreal specific? So, the bible is talked to just the people of Isreal Christ church we all are Christ Church. Thats what sounds like what you are saying. Acts 10 is significant as it marks a pivotal moment in the early Christian church, emphasizing the inclusivity of God's kingdom. This chapter reveals that salvation is available to all, breaking down ethnic barriers and highlighting that God does not show favoritism. It showcases the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the importance of spreading the Gospel beyond traditional boundaries, particularly through Peter's vision and the conversion of Gentiles. With God not showing favoritism. All you got is 1st Timothy 3rd chapter and that's talking about the qualifications of a preacher and Deacon that's not saying a woman is not supposed to preach or teach or begin over a man, yet God had so many women in leadership positions. 1 Corinthians 14:34 woman is to be silent in church when Paul was in prison giving instruction to women who were unruly in church, so he told them to ask their husbands after church not saying that women are not to preach. Man has an order Jesus came so that all can be saved, and I am sure it doesn't matter what gender the Messager is. We have churches where there are women leading causes there are a few men or us women who are single and have no husband who are we going to to turn to? The only leg you got to stand on or those two chapters and you still have shown me any proof like I said in Acts chapter 10 salvation was extended to the gentiles thus Peter prejudices against by showing him a vision of all types of animals and he told Jesus that he don't eat unclean things but Jesus told him everything he makes is clean so it's not just Isreal its all of Christ followers just like a typical person who says that Paul said a woman cant preach teach or lead over a man when God uses all Flesh wisdom is refereed to as a woman we women are leaders and we hear from God.
Thanks for your reply Evangelist1. You ask, "How was it Israel specific?" Yes, wherever we read of Laws, Directives, & Instructions given to Israel, they are for them alone. We can however learn about God's dealings with Israel, of God's Character & Purposes, but we need to draw a clear line between them & the Church. Remember, even as we read in Romans 11:12-27, that God has cut out Israel (temporarily, because of unbelief) from the olive tree & engrafted the Church into that tree, therefore forming a new people (of believing Jew & Gentile)) that come to Him in true love & faith because of His Son. So, unbelieving Israel has been separated because of unbelief & now we have the 'real' people of God who are now believing & living according to the commandments by the Holy Spirit & the directives given to the Church.
To this end, the Apostle Paul instructs the Church (through pastors Timothy & Titus), in what is commonly called 'Paul's Pastoral Epistles', on Church organization, conduct, & supervision. Though the 'churches' comprised both saved Jews & Gentiles, the Church has become a new 'organism' IN Christ, where the Holy Spirit now conducts the hearts & ministry of believers as a Body. As such, what was distinct in the OT concerning Israel's relationship to God pertaining to the Law, has no bearing on the Church founded on Christ which is wholly redeemed and accepted through Faith. Onto Page 2.
You mentioned 1 Timothy chap 3 (of elders & deacons), or even Titus chap 1 (of elders), but forgot to mention the one we quoted ( 1 Timothy 2:11,12): "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer (permit) not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Here we have a clear directive that a woman within the Church gathering must not teach nor exercise authority (or 'to be in dominion': Greek) over the brothers in the Church. There can be no dispute over these clear words. And to Acts chap 10 (that Gentiles can also be a part of the Church, with the vision/message given to Peter of unclean animals); yes, all are accepted equally (Jew, Gentile, Man or Woman), but only certain are permitted to function in Christ's Church in their order & by appointment by Church elders. This is what God's Word declares and stands firm & any other ideas or preferences to the contrary matter very little. GBU.
I have read my bible from Genesis to Revelation, and I have not read where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man. I know he gave the church of Corinthians instructions by writing them a letter in prison. In those letters he told women to be silent in church. Being silent means to be quiet that have nothing to do with a woman preaching or being over a man. You have not given me any proof at all except for women should be silent in church and I Timothy chapter 3. God uses the unlikely and he uses women as well. We women will not sit on our God gifts we are teachers, preachers we are leaders and God called us to spread the word. I don't have a husband so who am I supposed to ask? I have no doubt I am a woman of God called to preach so far no proof.
Indeed MotherMac. This discussion is open to all - I would welcome those Scriptures about the important & needy work by our sisters when the Body of Christ comes together to worship & learn together.
I'm assuming by what you have written in this thread that you are a single woman, or perhaps you are asking who a woman with no husband is supposed to ask (in response to 1 Corinthians 14:35). In this case, if a woman with no husband has questions during the service, why can't they ask the pastor afterwards? That's who they should be asking.
If you don't mind my asking, are you a pastor? And if I may ask a few more questions, in 1 Corinthians 14:34, women are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Can you tell me what law this is referring to? Can you please share your understanding of 1 Timothy 2:11-12? What qualities must a pastor possess? Lastly, as far a church function, God has given us His order. Can you tell me what that order is?
Finally, I would like to say that all believers are equal, both men and women, but they have different functions and responsibilities. Does God use women to preach the gospel? Yes, but they are not to be placed in a position of authority over the men in the church. Regardless of what we think about this topic, the bible is clear that women are not allowed to be pastors!
I have been following along in this thread from the beginning and chose not to engage earlier because I thought there were some pretty solid answers given to support the fact that women are not allowed to be overseers or pastors in a church assembly. I would like to share a few thoughts of my own on this.
First, I am sorry to hear that you spent so much time reading from Genesis through Revelation trying to find where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man. Since Paul's letters are only found in 13 books of the New Testament, you could have saved yourself a lot of time in your search.
You said, and I quote "I know he (Paul) gave the church of Corinthians instructions by writing them a letter in prison." I'm wondering how you know this for a fact since Paul was not in prison at the time he wrote the letter to the church in Corinth. Paul wrote this letter during his 3rd missionary journey, not while he was in prison.
I do agree with your conclusion on 1 Corinthians 14:34. Here, Paul is not giving instruction about who can or cannot pastor a church. Paul gives instruction elsewhere on this, and those sections of scripture have already been shared with you. Did you notice in this very same verse, it says nothing about the men? Also, you mention that you "have not read where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man," but where does Paul say a woman can or should teach and be over a man? Or where does Paul say that a woman can be a pastor?
I am sorry that you are unable to find 1 Timothy 2:11,12 - I don't think my repeating that Scripture any more will help you, except to drag this out unnecessarily. When you find it, you can maybe share what you read there.
And I don't understand what you mean by writing, "I don't have a husband so who am I supposed to ask?" Ask what? If you had a question about what is written in the Bible or even having to make a decision over a matter in your life, as a single person, as with any person (married or single), we need to first seek the Lord's Face & learn from His Word for help. Approaching your Elder or Pastor would also be the best informed people to advise you, since they would be aware of your status & needs. And it is a very good thing that you are sharing Christ with others - there's no contradiction from the Word on that, but when in a Church meeting, the Apostle Paul made the matter very clear.
Imposter churches their own rule which in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head. The churches that make Christ in their own image shall need such props so they may preach nationalism, white or ethnic, and advocate prosperity. Our soul is a sign that Christ dwells in us by faith to whom you glory. So covering the head is to indicate glory is indeed reserved on him. Stick to your spiritual understanding and it is safer,
The bread you break has no gender issue in token of partaking the body broken on the cross.
God had no such issue with Hagar and He saw her as he saw anyother in need.
The first line "Imposter churches their own rule which in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head"
is to be read as
"Imposter churches makes their own rules while in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head."
Tewmardew, how you doing. Should a woman become a preacher ? This is my view, no. But, if the men stop preaching the truth of God's Word, then I would go and listen to a woman preach.
The first time I heard the word of God, it was a woman and it changed my parents household.
I praise the Lord the Christian woman that God uses to spread the Gospel of Grace.
I am not one to judge, but Jesus Christ.
May God bless you and all the women that wants to get used by God like " Ruth" and many other in the Bible.
Please enjoy this verse .
Proverbs 31:30
Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may a woman be saved by this gospel
2 Corinthians 11:13
For such arefalseapostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Apostle Paul had friends that betrayed him.
2 Corinthians 11:26
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils amongfalsebrethren;
Galatians 2:4
And that because offalsebrethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Be careful of Satan. UFO looks beautiful in the sky's and now the news talks about it.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into anangeloflight.
We must be careful for the ones closest to us that may be deceiving us with the twisted word.
Philippians 4:6
Becarefulfornothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requestsbemade known unto God.
Saint Peter told his people go to Apostle Paul for Salvation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 .
2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brotherPaulalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may God bless you in this GOSPEL
Paul teaches that women are not to be overseers (pastors) or teachers over men. These are official appointments in a church.
So I do not think that women should be ordained as ministers. I do think that all Christians, men or women, are called to help each other grow in our Scripture knowledge, holy living, and faith, among other things. We are to be examples to, encourage, admonish, instruct, correct, evangelize, and share the gospel message with others. As believers, I think we should pray to be opened to receiving all of these things from whomever God uses to do these things regardless of age, sex, social status, or financial state.
That said, I think that in congregations, men can teach Bible Study to men, women, and children. But women should teach Bible study only to women and children. If someone chooses to have an independent Bible study in their own home, then I think that anyone can attend regardless of if the host is a man or woman. But I do think that we all should be careful to be on guard against inordinate affections and connections with people we are not married to. So, it is best if couples attend together.
Each believer has the Holy Spirit indwelling them and the Spirit works in and through each believer to accomplish His intended purpose. We should act in accordance with the what Scripture teaches and also be keeping in step with the Holy Spirit as He guides each of us and helps us to know the Lord better and others to know the Lord better.
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
Thanks for your reply Evangelist1. You ask, "How was it Israel specific?" Yes, wherever we read of Laws, Directives, & Instructions given to Israel, they are for them alone. We can however learn about God's dealings with Israel, of God's Character & Purposes, but we need to draw a clear line between them & the Church. Remember, even as we read in Romans 11:12-27, that God has cut out Israel (temporarily, because of unbelief) from the olive tree & engrafted the Church into that tree, therefore forming a new people (of believing Jew & Gentile)) that come to Him in true love & faith because of His Son. So, unbelieving Israel has been separated because of unbelief & now we have the 'real' people of God who are now believing & living according to the commandments by the Holy Spirit & the directives given to the Church.
To this end, the Apostle Paul instructs the Church (through pastors Timothy & Titus), in what is commonly called 'Paul's Pastoral Epistles', on Church organization, conduct, & supervision. Though the 'churches' comprised both saved Jews & Gentiles, the Church has become a new 'organism' IN Christ, where the Holy Spirit now conducts the hearts & ministry of believers as a Body. As such, what was distinct in the OT concerning Israel's relationship to God pertaining to the Law, has no bearing on the Church founded on Christ which is wholly redeemed and accepted through Faith. Onto Page 2.
You mentioned 1 Timothy chap 3 (of elders & deacons), or even Titus chap 1 (of elders), but forgot to mention the one we quoted ( 1 Timothy 2:11,12): "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer (permit) not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Here we have a clear directive that a woman within the Church gathering must not teach nor exercise authority (or 'to be in dominion': Greek) over the brothers in the Church. There can be no dispute over these clear words. And to Acts chap 10 (that Gentiles can also be a part of the Church, with the vision/message given to Peter of unclean animals); yes, all are accepted equally (Jew, Gentile, Man or Woman), but only certain are permitted to function in Christ's Church in their order & by appointment by Church elders. This is what God's Word declares and stands firm & any other ideas or preferences to the contrary matter very little. GBU.
Is the discussion open for everyone ? Pentecost was the beginning of changes that Apostle Paul addressed.
(Part 2):
I'm assuming by what you have written in this thread that you are a single woman, or perhaps you are asking who a woman with no husband is supposed to ask (in response to 1 Corinthians 14:35). In this case, if a woman with no husband has questions during the service, why can't they ask the pastor afterwards? That's who they should be asking.
If you don't mind my asking, are you a pastor? And if I may ask a few more questions, in 1 Corinthians 14:34, women are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Can you tell me what law this is referring to? Can you please share your understanding of 1 Timothy 2:11-12? What qualities must a pastor possess? Lastly, as far a church function, God has given us His order. Can you tell me what that order is?
Finally, I would like to say that all believers are equal, both men and women, but they have different functions and responsibilities. Does God use women to preach the gospel? Yes, but they are not to be placed in a position of authority over the men in the church. Regardless of what we think about this topic, the bible is clear that women are not allowed to be pastors!
(Part 1):
I have been following along in this thread from the beginning and chose not to engage earlier because I thought there were some pretty solid answers given to support the fact that women are not allowed to be overseers or pastors in a church assembly. I would like to share a few thoughts of my own on this.
First, I am sorry to hear that you spent so much time reading from Genesis through Revelation trying to find where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man. Since Paul's letters are only found in 13 books of the New Testament, you could have saved yourself a lot of time in your search.
You said, and I quote "I know he (Paul) gave the church of Corinthians instructions by writing them a letter in prison." I'm wondering how you know this for a fact since Paul was not in prison at the time he wrote the letter to the church in Corinth. Paul wrote this letter during his 3rd missionary journey, not while he was in prison.
I do agree with your conclusion on 1 Corinthians 14:34. Here, Paul is not giving instruction about who can or cannot pastor a church. Paul gives instruction elsewhere on this, and those sections of scripture have already been shared with you. Did you notice in this very same verse, it says nothing about the men? Also, you mention that you "have not read where Paul said a woman shouldn't teach or be over a man," but where does Paul say a woman can or should teach and be over a man? Or where does Paul say that a woman can be a pastor?
Please see part 2
And I don't understand what you mean by writing, "I don't have a husband so who am I supposed to ask?" Ask what? If you had a question about what is written in the Bible or even having to make a decision over a matter in your life, as a single person, as with any person (married or single), we need to first seek the Lord's Face & learn from His Word for help. Approaching your Elder or Pastor would also be the best informed people to advise you, since they would be aware of your status & needs. And it is a very good thing that you are sharing Christ with others - there's no contradiction from the Word on that, but when in a Church meeting, the Apostle Paul made the matter very clear.
Imposter churches their own rule which in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head. The churches that make Christ in their own image shall need such props so they may preach nationalism, white or ethnic, and advocate prosperity. Our soul is a sign that Christ dwells in us by faith to whom you glory. So covering the head is to indicate glory is indeed reserved on him. Stick to your spiritual understanding and it is safer,
The bread you break has no gender issue in token of partaking the body broken on the cross.
God had no such issue with Hagar and He saw her as he saw anyother in need.
The first line "Imposter churches their own rule which in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head"
is to be read as
"Imposter churches makes their own rules while in Christ there is no split. There are no gender issues , ageism. We are all members of one body while Christ is the head."
The first time I heard the word of God, it was a woman and it changed my parents household.
I praise the Lord the Christian woman that God uses to spread the Gospel of Grace.
I am not one to judge, but Jesus Christ.
May God bless you and all the women that wants to get used by God like " Ruth" and many other in the Bible.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
God will use a woman to spread this gospel too.
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