John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jesus has come to the end of His earthly mission, the time of His crucifixion has come near, John 13:1. Jesus said, "glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" Jesus has been obedient to His Father and has finished what He was sent to do, except for the last hours of left in Passover day when He will suffer and die.
The words that Jesus spoke are written in John 13 through John 16; all five chapters were written about while they were in the room where they had the Last Supper. He lifted His eyes to heaven. Jesus was praying to the Father, and the disciples were there. Judas left just before Jesus started this prayer. Jesus is in the upper room just before going to the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus prays for Himself, his disciples, and all future believers.
His hour had come, as He said in Luke 22:15-16, He desired to eat this Passover before He suffered, but He would not be there to eat it. And in John 12:23, He said the hour had come that He should be glorified. In John 7:33-39, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit that those who believe in Him will receive, but it has not been given yet because Jesus was not yet glorified/resurrected. God glorified Jesus when He raised Jesus from the dead in His glorified body. We will also be raised in a body fashioned like His, Philippians 3:21.
Jesus knew what He would have to endure later that day: death on the cross. In this prayer, we can see Jesus' love for his disciples and his desire for them to remain in faith and purpose. His emotions in this prayer intensified in the garden, as reflected in Matthew 26:38-43 and Luke 22:40-44. All that Jesus did throughout His mission on earth was to glorify God, showing us the importance of glorifying God in all our actions.
2, As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus confirms that the Father has given Him power over all humanity and that, through His redemptive work, God grants eternal life to all those whom He has given to Jesus. Jesus understood the Scriptures, including what had been said about Him and what He would do and suffer, as illustrated in Isaiah 53:1-12. This indicates that all of humanity has been entrusted to
Christ, beginning with the lost sheep of Israel, and that anyone who believes in Jesus will not perish but will have eternal life.
This was God's plan to make salvation possible, man had to pay the penalty, the only way humanity can be reconciled to Him, as indicated in John 14:6. The word " power " is derived from the Greek word " exousia, " meaning authority. Through the Spirit of God, He granted His power and authority to Jesus Christ over humanity, John 3:34-35, John 5:26-27, Acts 10:38.
The Holy Spirit enabled Jesus to speak the words the Father had given him to speak, John 14:24. After God raised Jesus from the dead, the Father placed all heaven and earth under Jesus, Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23, and Philippians 2:9-11.
Jesus's mission was to do the will of the Father. In John 5:19-23, Jesus says He can do nothing by Himself, same in John 5:30. God has committed all judgment unto the Son. The word committed is the Greek word didmi, to give, to grant, to bestow; it was deliberately transferred to Jesus to do the will of the Father who sent Him.
This highlights God's plan being fulfilled, emphasizing Jesus' role as the Messiah appointed and given authority by the Father.
To deny Jesus' divine nature and present Him as only human who needed the Holy Spirit to tell Him what the Father wanted Him to do or to know the Father or to perform miracles is untruthful as it denies what Scripture does teach about Jesus' divine nature and His unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit and His divine ability to do all that He does through His own power and authority as God in the flesh.
It is true that Jesus only did what the Father willed (speaking to His human nature) as His divine will was the same as the Father's and that He said only what the Father spoke to Him ( John 12:49), because He is the divine Word ( John 1:1).
Your portrayal of Jesus in your post is consistent with your belief that Jesus is not God. And I ma sure you most likely thought I would comment on your post because I believe Scriptures say that He is God in the flesh, and the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God--Three divine Persons in one divine Being.
I believe it is important to correctly reflect what Scriptures do teach about Jesus, and you made errors in this post. What one promotes about being true of Jesus is of cardinal importance in matters of doctrine and faith. That is why I speak up.
Thanks for posting this series on the Last Supper Discourse.
In Part 2 you said several ideas that I don't find supported by the text or the teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
In the passage that speaks of "giving eternal life" it states that Jesus was given power and authority by the Father AND that "he" (Jesus) gives eternal life. It is true that it is God who gives eternal life, but Scripture states clearly that both the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ give eternal life --- John 10:28; 1 John 5:11-13; 20; John 6:27, 54; 1 John 1:2.
John 17:2
"even as You (the Father) gave Him (Jesus, the Son)authority over all flesh, that to all whom You (the Father) have given Him (Jesus), He (Jesus)may give eternal life."
When we look at the truth of this verse it clearly states that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him.
To say of this verse that it is the Father who gives life is not exegeting this verse properly and it diminishes the deity of Jesus.
Also, you state that it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew the Father's will and what to say. But this is not what Scriptures say. In John 14:31 it says that Jesus does all that the Father commands Him (Jesus) to do. No mention of the Holy Spirit here. John 5:19 says that Jesus does all that He sees the Father do. So He knows what the Father's will is and what God is says and does through His own divinity and not through the Holy Spirit.
In His human nature, Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit to be obedient to the Father, but His divinity, being unified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, knew all the will of God, all that the Father does, all that the Father says.
John 10:15 says that "even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
To speak as though Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to know what He was to do or say denies His divinity and oneness with the Father. See part 2
3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
This is one powerful verse: "And this is life eternal." This was the primary purpose of Jesus' mission: the immortality of the Father came to earth, manifested in Jesus, and eternal life which God the Father alone possesses, 1 Timothy 6:16.
God was revealed in the flesh of His only Son, Jesus. What is eternal was manifested in the world and is now available to us. This eternal life is given that we might know the only true God and His Son Jesus Christ, whom His Father sent, 1 John 4:7-16.
There are 38 times in the gospels where Jesus said God sent Him, the most expressive is in John 7:16-29. When Jesus was sent, it was first for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 15:24, at the fullness of time, for those under the law, Galatians 4:4-5. This was part of God's plan from the beginning and happened at the fullness of time.
In 1 John 5:20, John says Jesus gave them understanding that they should know the Son of God, the Messiah has come, and that we should know the true God, and we are in Him, the true God, and in the Son of Him that is the only God from whom eternal life comes. Paul says the same in 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. God, the Father, of whom are all things, "of whom are" Greek ek" or "ex" indicates the origin or source. "Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, Greek dia ho, he, to pas, on the account of Jesus are all things.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jesus tells His Father He has finished the work that the Father gave Him to do. Jesus was obedient to the Father in everything; He lived a life doing the Father's will, not His own, John 4:34, John 5:30. Jesus glorified His Father by living a sinless life, fulfilling the law, and completed the works of the Father by the Spirit of God, John 14:10.
He manifested His Father's love, goodness, justice, mercy, and truth, as Jesus in John 14:7-11 told the disciples, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, I am in the Father, and the Father in me, the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Later in this chapter, Jesus says more than once, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us', "that they may be one, even as we are one".
Jesus knows He must face His crucifixion, and stating that He has glorified the Father and fulfilled His work is not a boast but a reflection of His love and dedication to God's purpose. Jesus prays this prayer in front of His disciples to demonstrate the importance of obedience, emphasizing that all we do is to glorify God.
Trust and dependence on the Son of God, believing in His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, Romans 5:8-10. Titus 1:2 states that God has promised eternal life to us from before creation, but it is our future hope in Jesus through faith, as seen in Romans 1:16. This hope has been established for us in Jesus before time; this hope is eternal life. It is not seen or enjoyed now; that is not hope, Romans 8:24-25.
Is Jesus praying for just the disciples or also future believers? This was determined before the foundation of the world, as we see in John 14:3, and Paul confirms it in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. We will see the glory of Christ that the Father has given Him when He returns to establish the kingdom.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, and salvation was part of God's plan. The word " chose, " from the Greek word eklego, means to pick out for oneself, to choose, elect, or select. God's plan and purpose for humanity was for us to have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:19-20 explains that Jesus, through His obedience to the Father and His sinless life as a lamb without blemish and spot, shed His blood for us. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The word " foreordained " is derived from the Greek word proginosko, meaning to know beforehand, representing the foreknowledge of God, a plan manifested in the last times for us. Various verses refer to the foundation of the world, meaning from the creation of the earth and humanity.
Matthew 25:34 speaks of the glory in God's plan, in the mind of God, encompassing all things from beginning to end, something we as humans cannot fully comprehend. We see the culmination of this verse in Revelation 20:11-15.
I think you are conflating God's plan and Jesus as both being ideas in the mind of God prior to creation. But this is not a true analysis. Scripture is very clear that God decreed all that would occur in creation and history according to His wisdom and good purpose and His decree was made once which immediately began to occur just as He ordained because of His sovereignty and power.
But there is nothing in Scripture that says that Jesus was in the mind of God before creation. Again, you say this because you do not want to believe that Jesus is God and therefore exists eternally as the Father does.
Also, I don't think that foreknowledge necessarily means that He sees all that will happen in advance and then ordains it. I think it is true that God ordains all that occurs in creation and history, but this ordaining is not due to what he foresees. This would make Him dependent upon what is done by others, not Himself. This would make these "others" sovereign over God (which is not true).
It is true that God knows all things, all that actually come to be, all that is done, said, thought, or willed by creatures, all that happens in nature, etc. And He knows all that could possibly be, all possible worlds, possible situations, decisions made by creatures. However, in ordaining all things that actually do occur, He chooses that which is perfect for the accomplishing of HIs purpose and plan for all time and creation. Therefore, foreknowledge is God knowing all reality before it becomes real. But Scripture says that all He ordained was according to His pleasure and divine and perfect will, not by His foreknowledge.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
Revelation 13:7-8 is saying that all who dwell upon the earth will worship (the Beast) not God, for they are all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Perhaps this is not what you meant to convey.
Later I will go through those verses in this part on the topic you highlight.
I am so glad that God will supply for us in Christ through the Holy Spirit the power to endure to the end and cause us to persevere in faith throughout our life. We, ourselves would not be able to do this. Our salvation is of God from start to finish! Praise the Lord!
Let us pray that we come to unity of faith with sound doctrine taught in Scripture concerning all matters of our God, our salvation, our future. I remember reading that we have eternal life now and in the future. Let me pull up that verse.
John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
Eternal life is both a present and future possession of believers. How amazing and comforting that is. We who are in Christ are already raised to life while alive now, but will also be resurrected bodily at Jesus' return to have our salvation become complete and eternal.
All pre-existed in the mind, thoughts, reason, and doctrine of our God the Father, the definition of logos. Revelation 3:14, the beginning of the creation of God, the starting point, the predetermined position of authority that God would give to His Son at the point in time that God planned before creation.
Jesus understood all the Scriptures that foretold the glory destined for Him in the mind of God the Father before creation. God's thoughts and plans began with Jesus, who became the tabernacle of God in flesh on earth. Through Him, eternal life can be bestowed upon all who believe in Him. Every word Jesus spoke was God's word: John 7:15-16, John 12:49, John 14:24.
How should we understand verse 3? Jesus, in prayer to the Father, states that eternal life is dependent on knowing the Father, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the Messiah whom God sent.
Jesus knew who He was. He said in John 20:17, He had a Father and a God. Jesus is praying to His Father, He had no power of himself; all he did and said was the Father working in him. Jesus perfectly submitted to God's will by choice and obedience; the glory Jesus was praying for was yet to be realized, only in the knowledge He had from Scripture and the Holy Spirit He was anointed with, without measure of what it would be.
We must confess Jesus is the Son of God.
I am sorry for this long post; read it, study it, or ignore it. I love you guys.
"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
Thanks again, Ronald. These are good things to study as long as we accept the authority of Scripture as that which determines our belief. Blessings to you tonight and always.
Hi GiGi, thank you for your response. I didn't direct this at you; I was studying it and felt compelled to share. I understand we don't see eye to eye on this, and I appreciate your considerate reply.
I agree; "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
I also agree that Scripture is the word of God, and His Spirit is our guide to truth.
Philippians 2:9-11 God the Father has exalted Jesus above all, and we are to worship Jesus as Lord for the glory of God the Father.
5, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
On the surface, it can be seen that Jesus is asking to be glorified by the Father with the glory He shared before creation, indicating the eternal nature of Christ, who existed before time began. Does Philippians 2:6-8 justify this request? Jesus, for His obedient earthly ministry, He rightfully deserves?
Does all of Scripture agree with this? We have these verses with similar wording. Were the things in these verses physically present before the world was? Were they all in the mind, thoughts, and the plan of God? Can we say some were and some were not? Are they confirmation of God's eternal plan and foreknowledge?
Verses that say before the world was, before the world, and before the foundation of the world. God's foreknowledge, purpose, and plan were before creation.
1 Corinthians 2:7 This wisdom is the gospel of Jesus Christ, hidden in the thoughts of God from before the world was. It was ordained from before the world that would be revealed in the fullness of time, as stated in Ephesians 1:10 and Colossians 1:26-27. There are hints of it throughout the Old Testament, but hidden from the Gentile world, it is now revealed through the preaching of the apostles who were with Jesus from the beginning of His three-and-a-half-year ministry, and Paul, after the leaders of Jerusalem said no to Jesus being the Messiah and killed Stephen, Acts 7:54-60.
2 Timothy 1:9 Our calling and salvation are given not by anything we have done or can do to earn. It is according to God's grace and for His purpose. This grace, which was given to us in Jesus, is part of God's plan before the world began, as we see in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 8:28-29.
Salvation through Jesus Christ is available to everyone who accepts it, it is received by faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God alone.
It says this, speaking of the wisdom of God, not about Jesus being only an idea in God's mind before creation.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"
You deny the preexistence of Jesus as God because you refuse to believe all the verses in Scripture that indicate that He is God and therefore is eternal.
John 17:5 clearly speaks of Jesus having shared glory with the Father eternally before creation, but this does not fit your theology of God being only one person. But these Scriptures refute this view.
Part 1
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Jesus has come to the end of His earthly mission, the time of His crucifixion has come near, John 13:1. Jesus said, "glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:" Jesus has been obedient to His Father and has finished what He was sent to do, except for the last hours of left in Passover day when He will suffer and die.
The words that Jesus spoke are written in John 13 through John 16; all five chapters were written about while they were in the room where they had the Last Supper. He lifted His eyes to heaven. Jesus was praying to the Father, and the disciples were there. Judas left just before Jesus started this prayer. Jesus is in the upper room just before going to the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus prays for Himself, his disciples, and all future believers.
His hour had come, as He said in Luke 22:15-16, He desired to eat this Passover before He suffered, but He would not be there to eat it. And in John 12:23, He said the hour had come that He should be glorified. In John 7:33-39, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit that those who believe in Him will receive, but it has not been given yet because Jesus was not yet glorified/resurrected. God glorified Jesus when He raised Jesus from the dead in His glorified body. We will also be raised in a body fashioned like His, Philippians 3:21.
Jesus knew what He would have to endure later that day: death on the cross. In this prayer, we can see Jesus' love for his disciples and his desire for them to remain in faith and purpose. His emotions in this prayer intensified in the garden, as reflected in Matthew 26:38-43 and Luke 22:40-44. All that Jesus did throughout His mission on earth was to glorify God, showing us the importance of glorifying God in all our actions.
See part 2
Part 2.
2, As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus confirms that the Father has given Him power over all humanity and that, through His redemptive work, God grants eternal life to all those whom He has given to Jesus. Jesus understood the Scriptures, including what had been said about Him and what He would do and suffer, as illustrated in Isaiah 53:1-12. This indicates that all of humanity has been entrusted to
Christ, beginning with the lost sheep of Israel, and that anyone who believes in Jesus will not perish but will have eternal life.
This was God's plan to make salvation possible, man had to pay the penalty, the only way humanity can be reconciled to Him, as indicated in John 14:6. The word " power " is derived from the Greek word " exousia, " meaning authority. Through the Spirit of God, He granted His power and authority to Jesus Christ over humanity, John 3:34-35, John 5:26-27, Acts 10:38.
The Holy Spirit enabled Jesus to speak the words the Father had given him to speak, John 14:24. After God raised Jesus from the dead, the Father placed all heaven and earth under Jesus, Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 1:19-23, and Philippians 2:9-11.
Jesus's mission was to do the will of the Father. In John 5:19-23, Jesus says He can do nothing by Himself, same in John 5:30. God has committed all judgment unto the Son. The word committed is the Greek word didmi, to give, to grant, to bestow; it was deliberately transferred to Jesus to do the will of the Father who sent Him.
This highlights God's plan being fulfilled, emphasizing Jesus' role as the Messiah appointed and given authority by the Father.
See part 3.
Pt. 2
To deny Jesus' divine nature and present Him as only human who needed the Holy Spirit to tell Him what the Father wanted Him to do or to know the Father or to perform miracles is untruthful as it denies what Scripture does teach about Jesus' divine nature and His unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit and His divine ability to do all that He does through His own power and authority as God in the flesh.
It is true that Jesus only did what the Father willed (speaking to His human nature) as His divine will was the same as the Father's and that He said only what the Father spoke to Him ( John 12:49), because He is the divine Word ( John 1:1).
Your portrayal of Jesus in your post is consistent with your belief that Jesus is not God. And I ma sure you most likely thought I would comment on your post because I believe Scriptures say that He is God in the flesh, and the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God--Three divine Persons in one divine Being.
I believe it is important to correctly reflect what Scriptures do teach about Jesus, and you made errors in this post. What one promotes about being true of Jesus is of cardinal importance in matters of doctrine and faith. That is why I speak up.
Thanks for posting this series on the Last Supper Discourse.
In Part 2 you said several ideas that I don't find supported by the text or the teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
In the passage that speaks of "giving eternal life" it states that Jesus was given power and authority by the Father AND that "he" (Jesus) gives eternal life. It is true that it is God who gives eternal life, but Scripture states clearly that both the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ give eternal life --- John 10:28; 1 John 5:11-13; 20; John 6:27, 54; 1 John 1:2.
John 17:2
"even as You (the Father) gave Him (Jesus, the Son)authority over all flesh, that to all whom You (the Father) have given Him (Jesus), He (Jesus)may give eternal life."
When we look at the truth of this verse it clearly states that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him.
To say of this verse that it is the Father who gives life is not exegeting this verse properly and it diminishes the deity of Jesus.
Also, you state that it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew the Father's will and what to say. But this is not what Scriptures say. In John 14:31 it says that Jesus does all that the Father commands Him (Jesus) to do. No mention of the Holy Spirit here. John 5:19 says that Jesus does all that He sees the Father do. So He knows what the Father's will is and what God is says and does through His own divinity and not through the Holy Spirit.
In His human nature, Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit to be obedient to the Father, but His divinity, being unified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, knew all the will of God, all that the Father does, all that the Father says.
John 10:15 says that "even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
To speak as though Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to know what He was to do or say denies His divinity and oneness with the Father. See part 2
3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
This is one powerful verse: "And this is life eternal." This was the primary purpose of Jesus' mission: the immortality of the Father came to earth, manifested in Jesus, and eternal life which God the Father alone possesses, 1 Timothy 6:16.
God was revealed in the flesh of His only Son, Jesus. What is eternal was manifested in the world and is now available to us. This eternal life is given that we might know the only true God and His Son Jesus Christ, whom His Father sent, 1 John 4:7-16.
There are 38 times in the gospels where Jesus said God sent Him, the most expressive is in John 7:16-29. When Jesus was sent, it was first for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 15:24, at the fullness of time, for those under the law, Galatians 4:4-5. This was part of God's plan from the beginning and happened at the fullness of time.
In 1 John 5:20, John says Jesus gave them understanding that they should know the Son of God, the Messiah has come, and that we should know the true God, and we are in Him, the true God, and in the Son of Him that is the only God from whom eternal life comes. Paul says the same in 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. God, the Father, of whom are all things, "of whom are" Greek ek" or "ex" indicates the origin or source. "Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, Greek dia ho, he, to pas, on the account of Jesus are all things.
See part 4.
Part 4.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jesus tells His Father He has finished the work that the Father gave Him to do. Jesus was obedient to the Father in everything; He lived a life doing the Father's will, not His own, John 4:34, John 5:30. Jesus glorified His Father by living a sinless life, fulfilling the law, and completed the works of the Father by the Spirit of God, John 14:10.
He manifested His Father's love, goodness, justice, mercy, and truth, as Jesus in John 14:7-11 told the disciples, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, I am in the Father, and the Father in me, the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Later in this chapter, Jesus says more than once, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us', "that they may be one, even as we are one".
Jesus knows He must face His crucifixion, and stating that He has glorified the Father and fulfilled His work is not a boast but a reflection of His love and dedication to God's purpose. Jesus prays this prayer in front of His disciples to demonstrate the importance of obedience, emphasizing that all we do is to glorify God.
See part 5.
I agree with everything in this post-Part 4.
Part 6
Trust and dependence on the Son of God, believing in His sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection, Romans 5:8-10. Titus 1:2 states that God has promised eternal life to us from before creation, but it is our future hope in Jesus through faith, as seen in Romans 1:16. This hope has been established for us in Jesus before time; this hope is eternal life. It is not seen or enjoyed now; that is not hope, Romans 8:24-25.
Is Jesus praying for just the disciples or also future believers? This was determined before the foundation of the world, as we see in John 14:3, and Paul confirms it in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. We will see the glory of Christ that the Father has given Him when He returns to establish the kingdom.
Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, and salvation was part of God's plan. The word " chose, " from the Greek word eklego, means to pick out for oneself, to choose, elect, or select. God's plan and purpose for humanity was for us to have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:19-20 explains that Jesus, through His obedience to the Father and His sinless life as a lamb without blemish and spot, shed His blood for us. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The word " foreordained " is derived from the Greek word proginosko, meaning to know beforehand, representing the foreknowledge of God, a plan manifested in the last times for us. Various verses refer to the foundation of the world, meaning from the creation of the earth and humanity.
Matthew 25:34 speaks of the glory in God's plan, in the mind of God, encompassing all things from beginning to end, something we as humans cannot fully comprehend. We see the culmination of this verse in Revelation 20:11-15.
See part 7.
I think you are conflating God's plan and Jesus as both being ideas in the mind of God prior to creation. But this is not a true analysis. Scripture is very clear that God decreed all that would occur in creation and history according to His wisdom and good purpose and His decree was made once which immediately began to occur just as He ordained because of His sovereignty and power.
But there is nothing in Scripture that says that Jesus was in the mind of God before creation. Again, you say this because you do not want to believe that Jesus is God and therefore exists eternally as the Father does.
Also, I don't think that foreknowledge necessarily means that He sees all that will happen in advance and then ordains it. I think it is true that God ordains all that occurs in creation and history, but this ordaining is not due to what he foresees. This would make Him dependent upon what is done by others, not Himself. This would make these "others" sovereign over God (which is not true).
It is true that God knows all things, all that actually come to be, all that is done, said, thought, or willed by creatures, all that happens in nature, etc. And He knows all that could possibly be, all possible worlds, possible situations, decisions made by creatures. However, in ordaining all things that actually do occur, He chooses that which is perfect for the accomplishing of HIs purpose and plan for all time and creation. Therefore, foreknowledge is God knowing all reality before it becomes real. But Scripture says that all He ordained was according to His pleasure and divine and perfect will, not by His foreknowledge.
Part 7.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
Predestination, Acts 4:27-28, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:10-12
God's plan.
2 Kings 19:25, Psalm 33:11, Isaiah 14:27, Isaiah 22:11, Isaiah 25:1, Isaiah 37:26, Isaiah 46:10, Jeremiah 29:11.
See last part 8
Revelation 13:7-8 is saying that all who dwell upon the earth will worship (the Beast) not God, for they are all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life. Perhaps this is not what you meant to convey.
Later I will go through those verses in this part on the topic you highlight.
I am so glad that God will supply for us in Christ through the Holy Spirit the power to endure to the end and cause us to persevere in faith throughout our life. We, ourselves would not be able to do this. Our salvation is of God from start to finish! Praise the Lord!
Let us pray that we come to unity of faith with sound doctrine taught in Scripture concerning all matters of our God, our salvation, our future. I remember reading that we have eternal life now and in the future. Let me pull up that verse.
John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
Eternal life is both a present and future possession of believers. How amazing and comforting that is. We who are in Christ are already raised to life while alive now, but will also be resurrected bodily at Jesus' return to have our salvation become complete and eternal.
John 17:1-5,
All pre-existed in the mind, thoughts, reason, and doctrine of our God the Father, the definition of logos. Revelation 3:14, the beginning of the creation of God, the starting point, the predetermined position of authority that God would give to His Son at the point in time that God planned before creation.
Jesus understood all the Scriptures that foretold the glory destined for Him in the mind of God the Father before creation. God's thoughts and plans began with Jesus, who became the tabernacle of God in flesh on earth. Through Him, eternal life can be bestowed upon all who believe in Him. Every word Jesus spoke was God's word: John 7:15-16, John 12:49, John 14:24.
How should we understand verse 3? Jesus, in prayer to the Father, states that eternal life is dependent on knowing the Father, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the Messiah whom God sent.
Jesus knew who He was. He said in John 20:17, He had a Father and a God. Jesus is praying to His Father, He had no power of himself; all he did and said was the Father working in him. Jesus perfectly submitted to God's will by choice and obedience; the glory Jesus was praying for was yet to be realized, only in the knowledge He had from Scripture and the Holy Spirit He was anointed with, without measure of what it would be.
We must confess Jesus is the Son of God.
I am sorry for this long post; read it, study it, or ignore it. I love you guys.
God bless,
RLW
I give you this verse to consider for part 8
John 5:23
"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
Thanks again, Ronald. These are good things to study as long as we accept the authority of Scripture as that which determines our belief. Blessings to you tonight and always.
I agree; "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
I also agree that Scripture is the word of God, and His Spirit is our guide to truth.
Philippians 2:9-11 God the Father has exalted Jesus above all, and we are to worship Jesus as Lord for the glory of God the Father.
God bless,
RLW
I did not think your posts were directed at me. I,, too, thought that you were simply commenting on what you were studying, which I appreciate.
Part 5.
5, And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
On the surface, it can be seen that Jesus is asking to be glorified by the Father with the glory He shared before creation, indicating the eternal nature of Christ, who existed before time began. Does Philippians 2:6-8 justify this request? Jesus, for His obedient earthly ministry, He rightfully deserves?
Does all of Scripture agree with this? We have these verses with similar wording. Were the things in these verses physically present before the world was? Were they all in the mind, thoughts, and the plan of God? Can we say some were and some were not? Are they confirmation of God's eternal plan and foreknowledge?
Verses that say before the world was, before the world, and before the foundation of the world. God's foreknowledge, purpose, and plan were before creation.
1 Corinthians 2:7 This wisdom is the gospel of Jesus Christ, hidden in the thoughts of God from before the world was. It was ordained from before the world that would be revealed in the fullness of time, as stated in Ephesians 1:10 and Colossians 1:26-27. There are hints of it throughout the Old Testament, but hidden from the Gentile world, it is now revealed through the preaching of the apostles who were with Jesus from the beginning of His three-and-a-half-year ministry, and Paul, after the leaders of Jerusalem said no to Jesus being the Messiah and killed Stephen, Acts 7:54-60.
2 Timothy 1:9 Our calling and salvation are given not by anything we have done or can do to earn. It is according to God's grace and for His purpose. This grace, which was given to us in Jesus, is part of God's plan before the world began, as we see in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 8:28-29.
Salvation through Jesus Christ is available to everyone who accepts it, it is received by faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God alone.
See part 6.
It says this, speaking of the wisdom of God, not about Jesus being only an idea in God's mind before creation.
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"
You deny the preexistence of Jesus as God because you refuse to believe all the verses in Scripture that indicate that He is God and therefore is eternal.
John 17:5 clearly speaks of Jesus having shared glory with the Father eternally before creation, but this does not fit your theology of God being only one person. But these Scriptures refute this view.
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