Bible Discussion Thread

Biblical Greek Perspectives:

(1 Peter Part 1):

Peter wrote his letters to the Diaspora which is the designation for the Jews who had been displaced from Jerusalem. He wrote 1 Peter around 63 AD and 2 Peter right before 67 AD. 1 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from the outside world. 2 Peter was written to warn the believers about the threat against the Church from inside the church, false teachers, and false teaching. The theme is persecution and suffering, and Peter warns the believing Jews that the persecution against the Church is going to intensify.

1 Peter 1:1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

The word scattered is the Greek word DIASPORA, which is the title and designation for Jews who are displaced from out of Jerusalem and are living in foreign strange countries.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

He says, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. We hear the word elect used a lot. Many major commentators, scholars, and teachers will tell you that the word elect applies to all Christians, that all Christians are elect by God for salvation. But this specific word elect, EKLEKTOS, is a specific designation for Jewish people. They are the elect of God.

If we look at 1 Peter 1:2 and read Peter's introduction here, we might say that Peter is writing to believers here, and so he is calling them the elect. However, he's talking to the Jewish believers. He then says grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. It doesn't give it here, but the word multiplied is actually an Optative Mood in the Greek. It's a wish. May grace and peace be multiplied unto you is what it is literally saying. It's a wish by Peter.

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

Blessings

(1 Peter Part 4b):

1 Peter 2:1 Continued

Paul says it's that easy for a person who's saved because the old life still functions but it does not have control over us. Just put it off. You don't have to be delivered. You don't have to be prayed for. You don't have to cast the demon out. After having laid aside all malice, and the word malice has to with causing adversity.

Secondly, and all guile. Guile means deception.

Thirdly, and hypocrisies. That is, acting the role. It's the third principle in being a non-believer. You have to take on many roles and act many roles depending on what people you're with.

Fourthly, envies. This is desiring what other people have or who other people are.

And lastly: all evil speakings. This is one Greek word, KATALALEO, which means to speak against, and it's the word slander. So, causing adversity, and all deception, and acting, and your envy, and all slander, put it off.

Amen Brother Jesse.

I suppose Peter is speaking to Jewish believers being that the early church started out with mostly "if not all Jews.

Sometimes we forget to consider that and factor that in when we read these scriptures.

Thanks and God bless.

Brother Spencer,

We do know that Peter was the apostle to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles, and that Peter wrote both his letters to the diaspora. However, I am unable to speak one way or another on the number of Jewish and Gentile believers there were in the early church as this is not something that I have considered in the past. I wish I had some information to share with you, but I have nothing, sorry! I would be interested if anyone has any factual knowledge to share, perhaps with numbers and references. But yes, I do agree with you in that in our studies, it is beneficial to take into consideration who the writers are speaking to.

Blessings to you!

Amen Brother Jesse.

I was focusing on the recipient of the word elect, EKLEKTOS, in 1 Peter. "a specific designation for Jewish people. The elect of God.

I read that and never put much emphasis on it "from that particular verse" I did on others but not that one. It's like I just passed over verse 2!

That's why I said, "Sometimes we forget to consider that, and factor that in when we read these scriptures".

I carry that on over to Matthews 24 and other places.

Thanks, and God bless.

Hello S. Spencer,

I do think that Peter had the Jewish believers dispersed around the known world by the time He wrote these epistles. But also, by the time that most of the apostles met their martyrdom, most of the church would be Gentile due not only to the outreach of Paul to the Gentiles, but of Peter ( Acts 10), Phillip (and the eunich), Thomas is said to have gone to India, and the others who followed Jesus; command to bring the gospel to the whole world beginning in Jerusalem, then spreading out through Samaria and all of Palestine, Asia Minor, Greece, Rome, Egypt, and elsewhere soon after Paul met with the apostles in Jerusalem in Acts 15.

If God intended for the gospel to spread throughout the Mediterranean area, He would provide the call and means for the apostles and the other disciples (such as the 120 in the upper room) to take the gospel well outside of Jerusalem, thus reaching dispersed Jews along with Gentiles. It is clear from history that Gentiles greatly outnumbered dispersed Jews and the gospel spread speedily among the Gentiles. Romans 10 and 11 speak of this fact that the Gentiles where receptive to the gospel, while Jews, in general were not.

We do not know much of where Peter preached and travelled although we know he was in Rome before his martyrdom. As for the other apostles, the Scriptures do not tell us about their evangelization. We know John was active in Asia Minor and Antioch, appointing bishops until he was exiled to Patmos in the 90's.

I am wondering why you say that most believers were Jewish when Peter wrote his letters. What information can you give me.

Hi again Gigi.

Another look at the early Church in Acts 11.

Acts 11:19-21. Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word TO NONE BUT UNTO THE JEWS ONLY.

And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.

And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.

Thats all I have for tonight Gigi.

Goodnight and God bless.

Hi Gigi.

I said I suppose Peter is speaking to Jewish believers being that the early church started out with mostly "if not all Jews.

Here's why.

The early Church began in Jerusalem. Not at 1 Peter.

Many Jews turned to Christ after His death upon the cross and His resurrection from the dead.

We see the rapid growth of the Church in Acts 2 "in Jerusalem" where they started! The Lord added to the Church daily.

Multitudes of priests turned to Christ! They were all Jewish!

By the time you get to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 the Church "IN JERUSEALEM was all Jews, and 16-18 years passed between the events in Acts 2 (the day of Pentecost) and the Council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15.

The council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 was roughly around 50 AD. Roughly around 20 years after Christ death on the cross.

1 Peter was written around 63 AD and he wrote to the DIASPORA! He addressed them that way in 1 Peter 1:1. Roughly around 30 years after Christ death on the cross. Peter opened the doors for the Gentiles, but his primary message was to the Jews.

The Gentiles eventually grew in numbers due to the Churches Paul set up on his journey but due to slow travel and Paul's often imprisonment we have no way of knowing the numbers before Paul was martyred around 67 AD.

In 70, the local Christians all left Jerusalem and went to Pella, on the other side of the Jordan, where they disappeared. Jerusalem had prestige and was the spiritual center of the Church, but Pella was just one small town out of many!

Antioch became the closest thing to the center of Christianity after the destruction of Jerusalem.

Paul also spent time bearing the Lord's name before Jews also.

In Acts 9:15 we see that Paul was a chosen vessel to bear the Lord's name before the children of Israel as well.

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL"

God bless.

Hello S. Spencer.

I agree that in the first 20 years of church life, the believers were almost entirely Jews.

I believe that God set everything in motion for the church to become mostly Gentiles by the time Peter wrote his epistle and Paul wrote Romans around 60 A.D. God was bringing about what Paul speaks about in Romans 10-11 in the decades after the council of Jerusalem, that is that there will be a blindness placed upon the Jews until the fullness of Gentiles are brought into the church and then the blindness will be lifted and the Jews will come to salvation.

As Paul worked diligently in his mission work he always started with preaching in the synagogue before he went into the city to preach to Gentiles. As time went on, it can be noted that he met with increasing hostility by the Jews in both Jerusalem and in the dispersion until he realized that God had brought to fruition what God had revealed to him would happen with the Jews and he recorded it in the book of Romans 10-11.

By the 50's and 60's where Acts record this blinding of the Jews and the eager reception of the gospel by the Gentiles, the Jews who were eager to receive the gospel in the first 20 years were still in the church. However, the numbers of new Jewish converts dwindled in the second 20 years. This led to many of the Jewish Christians to leave the synagogues as their place of worship and teaching and create house churches.

By the time of Paul and Peter's deaths, the church was primarily Gentiles and has been for 1900 years due to the blinding of the Jews until the fullness of the Gentiles were saved.

So, when I read Peter, I am aware that he is speaking to Jewish believers. However, unlike dispensationalism, I do think that what is recorded in the gospels, Acts and Epistles is as much for us as it is for Jewish believers. As gentile believers we are to be wise as to the errors of the Jews and to stay strong in the face of doubt and trials so that we, too, are not blinded.

Hi Gigi

I have that slightly different but that's ok.

Thanks for responding and God bless you.

Hello again,

S. Spencer.

I understand that we think differently on this topic. You were not very specific on how you differ from my thoughts and I take that as an indication that you do not wish to further this discussion. I respect that. God's blessings to you, too, this evening.

Hi Gigi.

I'm sorry, I thought it was covered.

You stated "By the time of Paul and Peter's deaths, the church was primarily Gentiles"

Gigi, I've never heard that before. You gave me your perspective but not a breakdown on why you believe that. So decided to pass on it.

You stated, So, when you read Peter, you are aware that he is speaking to Jewish believers. However, unlike dispensationalism.

I was not sure where you were going with that. You have made it clear on feel about dispensationalism, so I passed on it as well.

Now here is a quote you made that puzzles me. "As gentile believers we are to be wise as to the errors of the Jews and to stay strong in the face of doubt and trials so that we, too, are not blinded. End quote.

Gigi how does that co-exist with your beliefs on God's elect the way you describe it?

How do God's elect that is chosen before the foundation of the world "that has nothing to do with the foreknowledge of God according to you" become blind and slip out of God's hands? Have not God opened the eyes to only his elect?

The Nation is blinded.

It is Paul's Kinsman in the flesh that was blinded. I believe it is easier to understand it worded as such rather than saying he blinded the Jews.

It's the Nation of Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; that is blinded so that righteousness and purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

God never intended for salvation to be brought in by the law.

I believe Israel was blinded so that God could carry out his plan laid out in Romans 11:30-32

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

God bless

Hello once again,

Romans 11:8 does say that is God who gave the Jews their blindness (stupor) so that they will not see, nor will they be able to hear and understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So, I think this clears up this discrepency between us. God gave people over to their unbelief and rebellion as Romans 1 speaks to. I think it is important to understand that nothing happens that God does not ordain to occur. He may not directly cause some things, such as sin, but in His plan for creation, as the Absolute Sovereign over all. Nothing happens that He did not always know and allow to occur. But at times, He does directly cause things. to occur, and in this case, Scripture does say that God caused the stupor so that the Jews would not see and believe.

Paul, before he was martyred, saw this occur among his brethren and it grieved him very much ( Romans 9:1-5). God did reveal to Paul why this happened as we read in Romans 11. I think it is difficult for any of us to understand or even approve of God hardening some for His purposes as Romans 9 tells us, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will harden whom I will harden." As believers, we need to humble ourselves to the truth of what Scriptures teach us even when what is taught disagrees with our human sense of justice, right and wrong, and moral sensibilities.

For the record here, I believe that there has always been just one people of God-those who believe on Him and trust in Him, whether, Noah, Abraham, David, the prophets, John the Baptist, the apostles and all Christian believers through time. It is the believing Jews from all time along with the believing Gentiles (such as Rahab, Ruth) from the beginning of creation to the end of time that are God's people. You will read in the epistle of Peter and in Revelation where those who believe in Jesus are a kingdom of kings and priests, a holy nation, royal people, just as the O.T. speaks of Israel in the same way.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for responding.

I've read them all but I haven't freed up some time to reply.

I would like to quickly respond to your last post.

Your quote,' Romans 11:8

does say that is God who gave the Jews their blindness (stupor) so that they will not see, nor will they be able to hear and understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So, I think this clears up this discrepency..

End quote.

Gigi there's no discrepency there at all!

I always said God blinded "Israel"

I have always said it was part of his plan referencing Romans 11:25-26.

BTW Romans 1 doesn't have any connection to this.

We'll talk later.

God bless you.

S. Spencer

Here you said

"It is Paul's Kinsman in the flesh that was blinded. I believe it is easier to understand it worded as such rather than saying he blinded the Jews."

So, when I read this I thought you were saying that it was not God who blinded them.

But Romans 11:8 clears that up.

Otherwise, I don't feel a need to add anything more to our conversation here. It is always good to discuss the Word with you.

Gigi.

Part 4.

Darby's thinking was influenced, in part, by the early Church Fathers' rudimentary understandings of God's dealings with people in distinct periods

Justin Martyr: Recognized a period of law under Moses and a period of grace under Christ.

Irenaeus: Believed in a millennial reign of Christ on earth after the Antichrist's reign.

Tertullian: Discussed the different ages of the world, including a future millennium.

However, you cannot settle a debate or gather truth by solely relying on the internet!

There's scripture that should backup your findings and you should understand them.

For example,

Where do you fit the millennium in your doctrine on this topic? This will determine if you take the text seriously or do you spiritualize the text to fit a belief system.

You must have an understanding on the Old Testament and eschatology when considering it.

You have to study scripture and not the history of Christianity.

That's all I will speak on Dispensationalism at this time.

You said you believe that believers can lapse in faith when facing doubt and trials, but being elect, will be wooed back to faith by God and restored to the life of the tree, as the Prodigal Son parable shows us.

Gigi, that has nothing to do with being blinded from the truth!

Once you receive Christ the Spirit of truth is always with you.

Being blinded as Paul mentions, the truth is kept from them!

They can't perceive.

You said you do not believe that every ethnic Jew will be saved, just the remnant, as Paul says.

Gigi Paul didn't say that!

Here's what he said.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:25-26

They will be able see!

God bless.

Hello S. Spencer,

Thanks for your explanations here. We do agree on some things and disagree on others. At this time, I do not wish to get deep into this discussion as I think such a discussion is best done one on one in person with the Bible in a private study.

I appreciate all that you have highlighted in your posts and will be a help to me as I further study.

Lastly, I do not get most of my understanding from the internet or from church history. I have read and studied Scripture for most of my life without access to either of these relying only on the Bible. So, please, do not be judgmental towards me for finding information online or reading authors of church history. You definitely got your dispensational thinking from sources outside of the Bible. I also have done some research on dispensationalism and the more I read on it the more I do not agree with it. This is not meant as a judgment on you for adhering to it. It is just my stand that I do not agree with it's tenets, way of interpreting the Scriptures within its pre-conceived framework, and the implications it brings upon the Bible that I find erroneous.

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for responding..

I study scripture, I research the internet, I have a library of Biblical literature.

I research them all when needed

Everything has to be verified by scripture.

My dispensational thinking is verified by scripture.

I take a literal approach unless there's a symbol that says otherwise.

Thanks for your time on this Gigi

God bless you.

You are welcome, S. Spencer,

Since we both use outside sources to the Bible to gain insight we are in ways on the same page in this regard and can appreciate that we both are seeking to find understanding. I appreciate what Jesse is doing with highlighting the Greek words and meanings in the N. T. He has a skill set I do not have, so I am grateful for his contribution.

I appreciate you, too, as your insights have helped me over and over again. May we all be sources of encouragement and contribute to building one another up in our faith, doctrine, walk, and relationship with our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Amen Gigi!

Were all forever learning.

The only barrier to the truth is to think we already have it.

I to appreciate Brother Jesse and his lessons.

I've learned a lot on this site from people like him, Brother Chris and others in more than just Scriptural doctrine.

Thanks and May the Lord bless you in all that you do.

As this is public forum let me add that Dispensationalism is the book of doctrines the devil has written for Dummies. There are many books in the series, I understand. Spenser may come to the truth, I wish for him. There is nothing that a miracle cannot do. It did with me. From a cult group God delivered me. God does not change his Will and without understanding the everlasting Covenant any interpretation shall come short of the truth. Now that is my confession.

Bennymkje.

We don't call people dummy on this site!

You being 82 years old and have a website of your own should know that!

I also have a website and the last thing I would do is call people names like a child!

You're calling 95 percent of the people on this site Dummies.

There's people on the site dispensational and don't know it.

You tried to disrespect me but you are disrespecting the site.

I have told you before I don't adhere to your way of interpreting scripture where everything spiritualized so it shouldn't have surprised you when I said I take the Bible seriously and don't spiritualize it.

I wasn't speaking to you I was speaking to Gigi.

S Spencer,

A dummy is what it says and he is dupe of the devil in the sense I used here. Dispensationalism is simply a mock up of the Bible from Devil's Press so verses are there but does not add up. You are beguiled, Spencer, a dupe. God a Spirit has to be understood spiritually so you live in the flesh as obedient to the heavenly Father. You quote verses but does it find home, the truth?I told you from the beginning that if you dont follow my posts, it requires grace from above. So you can treat them as you wish. I did not come to this form to hold the brief for heretics but for the glory of God alone, May God open your eyes so that find truth for yourself.

Bennymkje you are incredible!

beguiled,, a dupe, a Dummy?

By God's Spirit you would call me all that because I refuse to follow you and read your material? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Bennymkje you come on this site insulting people from day one!

Bennymkje I am very familiar with your way of using scripture in away to stand in the way of the truth.

You spiritualize the truth right OUT OF THE TEXT.

I HOPE THAT ANYONE WISHING TO FOLLOW YOU READ THIS WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY.

I am happy to address this, not for my sake but for whoever decides to follow you.

The truth has to be in a person and you can't beat it in him

When teaching present that teacher delivers the word as is! (It's a seed planted)

Now it depends on the condition of a person's heart. IF GOD'S SPIRIT IS IN THAT PERSON THEN TRUTH SHALL BE REVEALED!

The scripture is read as is and (Gods spirit is what makes it find home),

You believe that is foolish but here is what the Bible says about that in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A teacher read the text and then he explains it.

Making someone UNDERSTAND spiritually is not his job.

Here's what scripture has to say about that.

1 Corinthians 3:6-7.

One characteristic of a false teacher is that he tries to draw people to himself with philosophy and sophisticated words. They take pride in their delivery.

On the contrary here's Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5. "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, BUT IN THE POWER OF GOD.!

S Spenser,

I pass it on in silence.

Hello Bennymkje,

I agree with S. Spencer in many ways as to the approach you employ in interpreting Scripture in your posts on this forum. you hyper-spiritualize nearly every Scripture and mash together minced pieces of many unrelated Scripture to forge a meaning to God's Word that is just not there in the first place.

I have tried to read your posts with an open mind to try to understand your methodology and the points you are trying to make from your musings. I do not think that they come from the Holy Spirit at all. But, even so, it is my hope that you will grow in knowledge and grace of Jesus Christ.

Like you, I believe that dispensationalism is based on faulty hermeneutics and premises. However, I try to dialog with those who adhere to it in respectful ways. I encourage you to do so, also. I also keep those on this site in prayer, which includes you and S. Spencer. Mutual concern and respect goes a long way and is what we are to give in loving our brothers and sisters in Christ. This does not mean that we approve of everything someone says on this forum, and we should speak up when we think someone is erring. In love, that is what I try to do for others and today I am attempting to do with you, too.

Bennymkje, you have an edge to how you posts that comes across as a superior, "I cannot be wrong or challenged" that counter your seeming display of "humility" of just posting for the "glory of God". But God is the judge of that, not I.

As a result, I do not read most of your posts, but some of them have been helpful to me. God bless you.

Gigi,

You are free to your opinion and I did not post in this forum or in any other in order to please anyone, I shall leave it as it is. May God be my judge,

Thank you.

May the Lord bless you.

The same to you, Spenser,

Galatians 3:14

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Ephesians 3:6

"That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

Romans 11:36

"For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."

Blessings

Gigi.

Part 3

As for Dispensationalism.

Do you believe the Old Testament saints were saved? If so, how?

Looking back on the cross? Or was it through their rituals and sacrifices knowingly or unknowingly looking ahead?

Certainly, the Old Testament saints were saved by grace as we were, but they weren't looking back on the cross as we are, nor are we looking ahead and performing rituals and animal sacrifices.

THAT'S ALSO DISPENSATIONALISM!

The difference in how Jews were saved during the time of the law and how people are saved during the time of grace is a key aspect of dispensationalism, a theological system that views history as divided into distinct periods or "dispensations".

Dispensationalists believe that God's interactions with humanity change in each dispensation, leading to different approaches to salvation bot same source.

OLD TESTAMENT

During the time of the law, salvation was still by faith, but it was often understood in terms of obedience to God's commands and keeping the covenant. Works were seen as a manifestation of faith POINTING TOWARDS THE CROSS. and a way to demonstrate one's relationship with God.

NEW TESTAMENT.

Under the dispensation of grace, salvation is still by grace through faith, but the focus shifts from outward obedience to inward transformation by the Holy Spirit. Works are still important, but they are seen as a result of faith, not a means of earning salvation. LOOKING BACK UPON THE CROSS.

I won't detail or discuss the future dispensation here.

See Part 4.

Gigi.

Part 2.

Romans 11:25

Gigi, I believe Israel was "to be" blinded before the ministry of Christ For a lack of a better way to put it.

Here's why.

If Israel would have received Christ, then we would be still under the Levitical priesthood.

There would be no redemption from the curse of the law.

There would be no baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The list goes on. You would have to rewrite every page in the Bible, especially Hebrews!

There would be no rebirth by the death and resurrection of Christ.

The Jews didn't kill Christ! The love of the father to a lost world did!

And that's the WHOLE WORLD!!

John 12:23-24 READS

"And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but FOR THIS CAUSE CAME I UNTO THIS HOUR.

IF THE JEWS WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED CHRIST THIS HOUR WOULD NOT HAVE COME.

This is why I say you should word it the way Paul penned it. It is Paul's Kinsman in the flesh that was blinded. I believe it is easier to understand it worded as such rather than saying he blinded the Jews." Meaning Israel blinded under "THAT" ministry in regards to salvation. in that manner they have been blinded. There's a difference Gigi!

I believe Israel blindness was prophetic but yet preordained. Paul is quoting Isaiah 6:9-10 in Romans.

If you look at any other kind of way, it looks like Israel blindness was a plan B.

See Part 3.

Hi Gigi.

Sorry for my delayed response. Busy work week.

Part 1.

Gigi, I don't know what the population of what the Jews was during the first century, but Historians estimate that the Jewish population within the Roman Empire during Jesus' time (roughly) was between 3 and 6.5 million.

Christianity was treated as a sect from Judaism, and it gradually separated from certain Judaism beliefs.

The church was being persecuted and had services in homes.

Gigi Paul was to take the Gospel to the Gentiles; we're not debating that!

However, that doesn't mean they all became believers.

Yes, Gigi all scripture is written to us but it all don't apply "TO" us.

In our own language we can see clearly the Elect mentioned in 1 Peter 1:2 applies to the scattered Jews mentioned in verse 1.

I don't see how me saying during the time of Peter's letters that the Church was predominantly Jews would cause you to write these 4 pages and then go into the discussion of dispensationalism!!

When examining your posts and quotes such as this one, "

"As to the relation of dispensational doctrine to Peter writing to the diaspora Jews, I do not adhere to the dispensational doctrine that Scripture that us directed to the Jews is not for Gentile Christians. This is not a historic doctrine" .End quote.

"The highlighting of what Peter called them (ELECT!) is what seems to start this debate so let's talk about Israel.

Gigi even if there were only 10 Jews in the Church at that time Peter penned the letter,

It was to those scattered 10 Jews.

See Part 2

Thanks Gigi.

I feel obligated to reply to this discussion perhaps over the weekend.

God bless.

S. Spencer,

We have the privilege of the bible being translated into our own language, the literacy to read and learn from it for ourselves, and the gift of preachers and teachers from the past and present to learn from since the internet allows us to access such teachings. We are not limited to the preaching of our local pastor nor do we live in isolation from the church abroad. We have been give great gifts in our time, but we still need to be like the Bereans and take every thought, teaching, and doctrine captive to the Word of God.

I believe that all of Scripture is for us as believers. We are instructed in Hebrews to learn from the experience of the Israelites in the wilderness and Paul teaches us in this chapter of Romans to not be like the blinded Jews, but to be humble and continue in our walk with our Lord unwaveringly, as he says Abraham did in Romans 8, I believe.

Hope this helps answer your questions to me.

Hello again S. Spencer.

As to the relation of Romans 11 and it's relation to election, there is not a conflict with what Paul warns Gentiles concerning being proud or boastful over the Jews who are blinded. Just as those Jews who strayed from God and became blinded to the truth of the Gospel, some of them are elect ad will be brought to faith, having their blindness lifted and being re-grafted into the tree (which I believe is Jesus, the True Israel of God), I believe that believers can lapse in faith when facing doubt and trials, but being elect, will be wooed back to faith by God and restored to the life of the tree, as the Prodigal Son parable shows us. An elected person who lapses in faith does not lose their election, just as every elected Jew does not lose their election when blinded. Each and every elected person will be brought to true faith. But as Paul said, not every one born a Jew is a true Jew, just those that are part of the elect, the "remnant" AND not everyone who says they are a Christian is truly elect and born again by the Spirit. But those who are part of the elected remnant of the Jews and those who have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, though they may lapse in faith, as Paul calls it "falls", these will inevitably be returned to Christ in time, whether Jew of Gentile. Also, I do not believe that every ethnic Jew will be saved, just the remnant, as Paul says.

As to the relation of dispensational doctrine to Peter writing to the diaspora Jews, I do not adhere to the dispensational doctrine that Scripture that us directed to the Jews is not for Gentile Christians. This is not a historic doctrine of the Christian faith. It is a recent creation of Darby who invented dispensationalism in the 1800's. It is not found anywhere in the Bible. I believe that all of God's Word is for us as believers in Christ. We who have lived since the invention of the printing press in the 1400's are blessed. See part 2

Hello S. Spencer,

Thanks for expanding your thinking here. I agree with your conclusion as Romans 11 states the purpose for the blinding of Israel so that the Gentiles may be grafted into the tree.

My thinking is that since the Jews as a population were small in number at the time of Jesus, and that a small remnant at the time believed the gospel, as Paul spoke about in Romans 9-11, then as the remnant of the Jews came to believe in that time, the make up of the church changed as the gospel spread across the known world during that time, which was made up overwhelmingly of Gentiles. With Paul's three missionary journeys, the ministries of Timothy and Titus who stayed with their congregations for a time, John's ministry in Asia Minor and surrounding areas where he appointed bishops, Apollo's ministry, Clement's in Rome, and many others who had the gift of preaching and evangelizing, I am pretty confident that by the writing of Romans, there were many more Gentiles in the church and that the Jews were much less of a percentage than in the first two decades. Romans 11 does say that the blinding of the Jews and the breaking off of those who are blinded was to make room for the ingrafting of Gentiles from every tribe, tongue, and nation. This is the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that all nations will be blessed in Him because Jesus is the promised Seed who has brought many sons to glory.

God bless you

(1 Peter Part 4a):

1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Seeing you have purified your souls, and it's interesting that this is an Aorist Participle. After your souls have been purified in obeying the truth through the Spirit into an unfeigned, that is, un-hypocritical love of the brethren, a love that is not an act. It's the real thing. See that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Now fervently doesn't mean get excited. It means to extend, a pure heart that extends itself, not observation, but you actually extend help to the brethren, and it's out of a pure heart, out of your love and concern for them.

1 Peter 2:1- Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

He says wherefore, or therefore, based upon what he said at the end of Chapter 1, you've been born again by the seed of God which is the word of God, and now you will grow by the same way.

Wherefore laying aside, and in the Greek text that's actually what is called an Aorist Participle, past time. It's literally translated after having laid aside. That shows salvation. And there are five things that are associated with the old life and with salvation. It is interesting that both Paul and Peter used the same language about the old life. They literally say put it off, lay it aside. It's the term for taking off your coat. And it literally means to take it off and just lay it down on the side.