This pleased God. It is hard for us to believe this, but Eph. 1 says that this is true. Everything that occurs, whether good or evil is part of God's eternal purpose and He ordains everything that happens. If He did not ordain everything that occurs then He would not be absolutely and perfectly sovereign over everything.
God, in His wise counsel, in order to accomplish His Sovereign purpose, ordained that some angels and all humans would be sinful and under His wrath. Because He has ordained all these to unbelief so that He will give His mercy and grace to those He elected to be saved ( Rom. 11:32) and to condemn all who are not vessels of His mercy to suffer His wrath eternally in the lake of fire. ( Rom. 9:22-24)
These truth do make us bristle (which is the sinful nature rebelling against God's Sovereign right to do as He pleases). Yet, as believers, we should wish to submit to His truth and not to place our thoughts and reasoning over and above His.
God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life in the garden to bring about this fall of humanity into sin through the temptation of Satan in the Garden. God knew that Satan could not resist the opportunity to take evil advantage of the presence of two trees, one that gives eternal life, and the other that brings sin into the life of Adam and Eve. He had already fallen from His own pride, and He did not want God's inferior creation (in his eyes) to be given a place of blessing in God's presence.
So, the stage was set, and God knew what would occur because He ordained it. Whether of not Satan, Adam and Eve, new this or not we don't know. But giving Adam and Eve the command to not eat of the tree of good and evil would inevitably bring them to disobey and become fallen by sin and in need of redemption based upon God's mercy and grace. This redemption restores those who believe to right fellowship with God. which is something even Adam and Eve could never earn. Only God is perfect
Jesus said " Sin must come but woe unto him by whom it comes"
We must be careful to attribute to God that which is not of God.
While it is true only God is incorruptible that does not mean God willed or as you put it ordained that man should be corrupted .For why then did God reveal HIS will that man should NOT be corrupted for God has declared "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God " thus God revealed HIS eternal will to Man and to us that HIS eternal will was that man shouid LIVE and not die .
Conformed by Moses .I put before you this day life and death " and if yiur unsure what Gods will was and is " choose life!"
Or of Jesus who said the devil has come but to steal to kill and to destroy but I have come that you might have LIFE and life more abundantly" and many more .
So we cannot say it was God will that man should perish!
In that God gave His Word so that they could resist the devil and the temptation is clear . That the first Adam did not does not change the fact of Gods righteousness throughout .
In truth " the arm of flesh will fail you"
I don't pretend to understand the great and deep workings of God ,but I reject utterly the idea that Gods will was otherwise than what he stated . To think otherwise would make God a liar .Which he is not nor was not nor ever will be .
But I do know the law of God that states every seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind " Which is why we are Mankind not an ape kind .
But there is also the " seed of the serpent " as well as the seed of the woman" it wouod be absurd to think God does not know the biology of his own creation but wishing to show that this One male child born of a woman would not be of Adams seed He said " the seed of the woman" .
In THAT God was and is always Sovereign and worketh all things accirding to His will .
Those God does not elect are said to be created for the glory of His judgment and wrath in Roma. 9:22. However, there is a difference between the elect and the non-elect. The elect are elected to salvation and glory and all of the election is of God and none can be attributed to man. But with those who God does not give grace and mercy, He judges as being the recipients of His wrath and condemnation and this condemnation is attributed to the sinner as what he has earned.
So, if God in eternity past decreed to elect those whom He would save in Christ and to not elect others to be saved in order that He could act upon His mercy and grace along with His power and wrath as stated in Romans 9, then placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden was something He ordained in eternity past as well in order to consign all to disobedience through Adam's sin as Rom. 11:32 says, in order for God to give mercy to all of the elect, either Jew or Gentile (which is whom Paul is speaking of in this chapter).
So, this is why I believe that God ordained for all humans to be sinners as a result of ordaining Adam and Eve to sin against His sole commandment He had given to them concerning the trees of the Garden. They had a multitude of choices as to what trees they could eat from, but they chose to eat from the one He forbade them to eat from. they had so man other options of other trees whose fruit was available to them. But God set the Garden up this way specifically for Adam to fall into sin for the greater good of all of the elect needing to be redeemed by God's grace alone and not by anything in elect persons or in what they do.
When this question was posed, it was open to anyone explaining their beliefs. All on here can do that. This is what I did and I have explained and supported my belief Scripturally. Others can do the same. I welcome it, in fact.
I understand that there are several differing beliefs concerning election and reprobation. I am aware that there differing beliefs about why God allowed man to fall (or Satan, for that matter). I thank you for your thoughts on this matter.
KScott asked for an explanation of why God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.
I explained my view according to what I know of what Scripture teaches.
I welcome your input on why God did this.
Romans chapter 9 has been a Scripture passage that addresses the issues of election and reprobation. The Holy Spirit speaks things in this chapter that are very difficult for people to accept (myself included). Paul even posits the accusations against this doctrine that would most likely come up among believers and explains why these accusations, primarily against God's character and sovereignty are incorrect. Coming to grips with this Scripture passage after years of it giving me pause to question its teaching has surprisingly given me great peace because I realize that it isn't my place to question what God has sovereignly decreed, ordained, and willed. I had to come to agree that this teaching about God electing some and not all truly is the wisest way for God to deal with sinful humans. I also have had to come to terms with God's divine right to do as He pleases in all matters. If He chose to show mercy to some and harden others, that is His prerogative as the Creator, Righteous Judge, Savior, and All-Wise God.
Rom. 9 clearly states that election is not dependent upon anything a person does, believes, or wills-it is based, rather, on God's eternal counsel, will, and pleasure. See Eph. 1. Romans 9 does teach that God elects some and not others and that only those who He wills to have mercy on will be saved and those He does not, He hardens. That is pretty harsh, but the text does say that God doesn't save all. See pt. 2
Dear GiGi, think about Rom 9 as u refers to. Am not agre with u.
Paul talk about Israel ppl. Thats why he is so "sad". Its not us he talk about.
Now this day i read from old testament. And it suprises me every time how Good God is and forgive and forgive. Not strange that He get upset.
So if u go back and read Romans 8:31-39 so must u understand that all ppl is ment to be saved. But we have this own will!
I dont think it is strange for Irsael to be eartly. Think about all things they have to do to keap all the law.
I look to my self, and if i dont think about His Word everyday, ill become eartly as well. And not only me, we all get that bacteria nowadays with all other stuff we need to do.
Be strong and safe in Jesus name. 1Tim 2:4 One other thing.
Hello again GiGi, God's peace. That's what I've noticed about your posts.
Because I'm just saying, I couldn't dare to ask for anything, if it's not a prayer in Jesus' Holy Name. Thank you very much for your patience with your writings that are well-formulated. My interest is to follow God's Word as far as my understanding has taken me. And I don't think we become less wise with age, but perhaps forgetful.
Over the last 3 1/2 years I have written many prayers which included "in Jesus' name" or a similar phrase.
I do believe that when we pray we are praying to the Triune God of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and-because of their unity, if you pray to one of the three persons, you are actually praying to all three. God is one Being in three Persons, so, our prayers are heard and answered by God no matter whom of the Three we address. And, in my private prayers, I often come to before God in the name of Jesus because, as my Lord, Savior and King, He stands with us before the Father in our praying.
I am aware that Jesus instructed us to ask of the Father in His name, but also instructed us to pray to the Father.
With this said, I am surprised that you would question me this way. To me, it seems that you are implying that a prayer is not valid before God if it is not offered in Jesus' name. If this were so, none of the prayers of the OT saints would be acceptable. Yet God did hear and answer such prayers as with Hannah, David, and a multitude more.
I believe that Jesus' statement about praying in His name is that when we pray, we are to believe that we can only come before the Father if we are in Jesus.
So, let's move on from this and not evaluate one another on our prayers that we offer to our God who is greater than our strength or weaknesses.
What do you know of the mind of God? You write,"The only thing you and I agree on is God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of Knowledge." Wrong.
God gave them free will. God brought His creation before Adam. " and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." (Gen.2.19). What name he chose was the name. God made him a living soul and not a living fool as you making God out to be. He has book of life and he lets his Son his choice too. Thus it is called the book of life and of the Lamb.
The answer to your question is in that thread to the original posting.
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (Adam's offense) AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
BennymkjeI believe there is nothing that God doesn't know,
God is not confined by time!
EVERY act of God is done by his foreknowledge so I describe him as wise!
God presented his love for all humanity before the world begun.
Let brotherly love continue, means pointing out warning sign, 'danger ahead'. Darkness and light are alike to God. But does not imply God will set out place bread one wholesome and the other bad knowing Adam shall eat either one. He places nothing but wholesome for him to eat. In his infinite wisdom he saw Adam should choose as wisely as his Son. It is obedience arising from faith, the same DNA as in his Son.
As long as you know an error, that is the blessed way. "there is nothing that God doesn't know" But holiness of God shall not be affected by it. That is his power that is His wisdom. By the same token when God has made an everlasting Covenant he does not have to make allowances by 'dispensations' or allow Israel, despite his Son casting them into outer darkness, be brought back. That is something for you to think about.
Dear, "Bennymkje" when you say this again, my curiosity is piqued. Please be patient and give me the Word where it says it. I have never heard this before. And may the Lord continue His good work in all of us. God bless you and yours, in Jesus name. Amen What I can share today is: Kol 3:1-17
"God has made an everlasting Covenant he does not have to make allowances by 'dispensations' or
allow Israel, despite his Son casting them into outer darkness, be brought back".
Now I understand what you mean. I referred in my comment in a different context than you assume. The heresy of Israel being special that in their falling back the church was grafted in but Israel being natural olive tree shall continue as special, as though nothing occurred. Dispensationalists uphold it and I as referring it to S Spencer indirectly. it quite went past his head. Leave that aside.
The analogy of the olive tree in Rom.11 does not make the kingdom of his dear Son to a tree. Those who have been planted by God shall produce fruits for the glory of God. Jesus referring to Israel says, what God has not planted shall be rooted up. (Mt.15.13). Heresy is in making a not so good analogy in order to sidestep the more serious condemnation of rejecting Jesus and claim, we have no king but Caesar.'
For the record : Every single person born of Adams seed is doomed to spend eternity in hell. There is not one person ever born who did not deserve to do so .
Those who think they were elected by some internal merit or virtue others did not are deluded .
But to all and to any who claim they are even truly elected then take note for it is written " make your election sure!"
Is it not also written there are days coming that will be so wicked and deceitful that " if it was possible even the VERY elect will be deceived "
The called . The chosen . The elect and the very elect .
Many are called but few are chosen .
Every true BORN child of God is called to that " high calling" the Bride of Christ .
But to be born again simply qualifies us to" run the race" it does not win us the prize .
To be BORN again it simply to get out of Egypt by the blood of a lamb ,the Word of God and the Power of God . Then the wilderness is where we are tried tested and proved it is boot camp! Where civilians are turned into soldiers .
It took them just over two YEARS to get to the promised land . The church has made te wandering inthe wilderness fir 40 years the Christian norm!
What does it say concerning the Bride ? She will come out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners leaning upon her beloved"
Paul warns us not to be like them that " entered not in because of unbelief" unbelief is not just not be.ye ing God it is believing another ( wrong) message !
He expected them to be ready but only TWO were .( so God was justified in thinking they shouid have been)
Every single person born of Adams seed is doomed to spend eternity in hell. There is not one person ever born who did not deserve to do so .
Romans 5:12 reads, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
You certainly have to recieve the universal offer of the free LOVE offering of God!!
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:14-18.
I quote verses 17-18 again.
( For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.)
That's the Good news!
Here's the bad news for those reject him.
Verse 18-
He that believeth on him is not condemned: BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!!
It's an invitation to WHOSOEVER will!
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that heareth say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.
(AND WHOSOEVER WILL) let him take the water of life freely.
The unbeliever is Judged because he rejected the Son of God.
Some will be deceived because they couldn't receive the truth!
Dear "Gerald" nothing is simple, Sorry to step in here. It is God who call on ppl. If they listening they will have another life with God. I can not comand God to do so or so. He have the last word.
But i know many ppl who are curious to the Lord. And for them ill say. Keep hold on, someday He will answer. And have a good life. Becouse He see everything, always. And He will not ever put down ppl who pray and ask to Him. Its like forever thru. He like that. He loves us, why He send His Son to us?
Thanks for your post but not sure why ? For where did Zi project the idea that we command God etc ?
I did say that if we seek Him etc we will find him and they that hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled .
The promises of God are sure and if we come the right way we will find entrance .
The only right way to go to someone's house and expect entrance is to go to the front doir and knock . Trying to find some way round the back makes you but a thief and a robber .
The struggle people have and all have had is to stop trying to find another way .God is patient and king suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth . No one ever comes Shazam ! To the truth in one great blinding light ( not even Paul ) but God leads them step by step to the truth .
Paul's experience on the road to Demascus was not in a vacuum not only was he brought to frustration over the zeal of those he arrested but was faced with Stephens martyrdom and the look on his face .At the very least .
Rarely does anyone get such a conversion but ALL are tought by the Fatyer Jesus said and led to Christ .
But with each step we must recognise the truth and embrace that part for how can two walk together unless they agree ?
That is not so easy expecially when God begins to reveal the true nature character and disposition of your own heart to your self .
But if you can't recognise the truth about yourself who you do know ,how couid your recognise the truth about God who you dont? And if you don't speak the truth about yourself who you do know how then couid you ever speak the truth about God who you don't yet know? False religions don't speak the truth about you themselves let alone God .
The repentant theif crucifued alongside Christ ,spoke the truth about himself then about Christ then put his faith in the Lord and in doing so went into eternity with a promise .
The unrepentant thief went into eternity with nothing .
Hi "Gerald" I'm sorry to have offended you, What you write is true. And you've posted a lot here now. So I don't know where the thread is. But I was thinking about those who haven't met the Lord yet. And problems with the internet yesterday made me respond completely out of the blue. In fact, the post kept coming to someone who wanted intercession.
What I understood was that it was simple: For some it's not easy, if they try in every way and get in touch. I read your post and understood it this way, unfortunately. It was those on the sidelines that I was thinking of in connection with the outrage. Because my faith always makes me believe that God will accept everyone, small and great. The only ones we know it can be difficult for are those who are really rich in wealth, as Jesus says. He knows all heart. Stay close, and Love and peace. 1 Joh 14:13-14
Hi thanks for your post . Not offended at all for I understand how misunderstandings can occur in this format and while my post may seem like I was offended somehow it was more surprise than offence .
I do think however that there is a lot of spurious 'salvation' messages around that do not convey the Holiness of God and the awfulness of sin (see Romans) which is why I recommended a goid biography of J Bunyan who's struggles prior to his conversion were immense . But look at the result once converted!
Then take Peter the Apostle his journey was not an easy one either .
So don't worry I'm not so easily offended and shouid we not in any case be patient with each other and seek to edify one another rather than get all heated about things?
I think that S. Spencer gave a good answer to your question.
I believe that God knows all that is to be known eternally. He alone is able to know the end from the beginning o all matters and events and actions of His creatures. Eternally He ordained to put these two trees in the Garde because it was wisest as to accomplishing His eternal purpose according to His wise counsel and good pleasure to His glory ( Ephesians 1 speaks of this).
God eternally purposed to redeem a people for Himself through the Son. These are those He eternally elected to salvation and are united to the Father due to their union with Jesus, His eternal, divine Son.
Isaiah 55:8-9 speaks of God's ways and thoughts being higher than anything we could think or understand. So, answering your question does entail us mere creatures attempting to "pierce the veil" of God's infinite, perfect, and ineffable nature to find out why He chose to put these trees into the Garden. The best we can do is to believe that God did so according to His eternal decree and purpose for creation.
The Bible is clear that He created to bring Himself glory by exercising His great mercy and grace towards those He elected and to exercise His perfect judgment upon the wicked angels and those He did not elect to salvation. ( Romans 9 speaks about this). We also ought to trust that His overall purpose is perfect, good, and He delights in accomplishing it in time and space.
With these thoughts, I believe that God from eternity determined to ordain evil to come to be in His creation, first through the sinful angels He created good and who then chose evil and then in every human that He creates. He created Adam and Eve good, but He knew that they would submit to the cunning temptation of the evil serpent, Satan who was the first to sin. In their sin, an evil corruption of mankind's good nature occurred that then became the default nature of every human that ever lives.
God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all the earth and to dress the Garden of Eden.
I believe evil existed on the earth, but Adam and Eve had no knowledge of it. (KEEP IN MIND SATAN HAD ALREADY FALLEN AT THIS POINT)
Adam and Eve was naked literally and figuratively (Uncovered or vulnerable to sin with no atonement for sin.)
I believe God put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him, knowing they would eat of it. Without a knowledge of evil or transgression there is no sin.
THIS DIDNT CATCH GOD BY SURPRISE!
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (The plan for Jesus's sacrifice was in place before the world's creation.)
Everlasting life was to never come by the first Adam but by the last. 1 Corinthians 15:45.
This pleased God. It is hard for us to believe this, but Eph. 1 says that this is true. Everything that occurs, whether good or evil is part of God's eternal purpose and He ordains everything that happens. If He did not ordain everything that occurs then He would not be absolutely and perfectly sovereign over everything.
God, in His wise counsel, in order to accomplish His Sovereign purpose, ordained that some angels and all humans would be sinful and under His wrath. Because He has ordained all these to unbelief so that He will give His mercy and grace to those He elected to be saved ( Rom. 11:32) and to condemn all who are not vessels of His mercy to suffer His wrath eternally in the lake of fire. ( Rom. 9:22-24)
These truth do make us bristle (which is the sinful nature rebelling against God's Sovereign right to do as He pleases). Yet, as believers, we should wish to submit to His truth and not to place our thoughts and reasoning over and above His.
God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life in the garden to bring about this fall of humanity into sin through the temptation of Satan in the Garden. God knew that Satan could not resist the opportunity to take evil advantage of the presence of two trees, one that gives eternal life, and the other that brings sin into the life of Adam and Eve. He had already fallen from His own pride, and He did not want God's inferior creation (in his eyes) to be given a place of blessing in God's presence.
So, the stage was set, and God knew what would occur because He ordained it. Whether of not Satan, Adam and Eve, new this or not we don't know. But giving Adam and Eve the command to not eat of the tree of good and evil would inevitably bring them to disobey and become fallen by sin and in need of redemption based upon God's mercy and grace. This redemption restores those who believe to right fellowship with God. which is something even Adam and Eve could never earn. Only God is perfect
We must be careful to attribute to God that which is not of God.
While it is true only God is incorruptible that does not mean God willed or as you put it ordained that man should be corrupted .For why then did God reveal HIS will that man should NOT be corrupted for God has declared "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God " thus God revealed HIS eternal will to Man and to us that HIS eternal will was that man shouid LIVE and not die .
Conformed by Moses .I put before you this day life and death " and if yiur unsure what Gods will was and is " choose life!"
Or of Jesus who said the devil has come but to steal to kill and to destroy but I have come that you might have LIFE and life more abundantly" and many more .
So we cannot say it was God will that man should perish!
In that God gave His Word so that they could resist the devil and the temptation is clear . That the first Adam did not does not change the fact of Gods righteousness throughout .
In truth " the arm of flesh will fail you"
I don't pretend to understand the great and deep workings of God ,but I reject utterly the idea that Gods will was otherwise than what he stated . To think otherwise would make God a liar .Which he is not nor was not nor ever will be .
But I do know the law of God that states every seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind " Which is why we are Mankind not an ape kind .
But there is also the " seed of the serpent " as well as the seed of the woman" it wouod be absurd to think God does not know the biology of his own creation but wishing to show that this One male child born of a woman would not be of Adams seed He said " the seed of the woman" .
In THAT God was and is always Sovereign and worketh all things accirding to His will .
For what shall we liken the kingdom of God"?
Pt. 2
Those God does not elect are said to be created for the glory of His judgment and wrath in Roma. 9:22. However, there is a difference between the elect and the non-elect. The elect are elected to salvation and glory and all of the election is of God and none can be attributed to man. But with those who God does not give grace and mercy, He judges as being the recipients of His wrath and condemnation and this condemnation is attributed to the sinner as what he has earned.
So, if God in eternity past decreed to elect those whom He would save in Christ and to not elect others to be saved in order that He could act upon His mercy and grace along with His power and wrath as stated in Romans 9, then placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden was something He ordained in eternity past as well in order to consign all to disobedience through Adam's sin as Rom. 11:32 says, in order for God to give mercy to all of the elect, either Jew or Gentile (which is whom Paul is speaking of in this chapter).
So, this is why I believe that God ordained for all humans to be sinners as a result of ordaining Adam and Eve to sin against His sole commandment He had given to them concerning the trees of the Garden. They had a multitude of choices as to what trees they could eat from, but they chose to eat from the one He forbade them to eat from. they had so man other options of other trees whose fruit was available to them. But God set the Garden up this way specifically for Adam to fall into sin for the greater good of all of the elect needing to be redeemed by God's grace alone and not by anything in elect persons or in what they do.
When this question was posed, it was open to anyone explaining their beliefs. All on here can do that. This is what I did and I have explained and supported my belief Scripturally. Others can do the same. I welcome it, in fact.
I understand that there are several differing beliefs concerning election and reprobation. I am aware that there differing beliefs about why God allowed man to fall (or Satan, for that matter). I thank you for your thoughts on this matter.
KScott asked for an explanation of why God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.
I explained my view according to what I know of what Scripture teaches.
I welcome your input on why God did this.
Romans chapter 9 has been a Scripture passage that addresses the issues of election and reprobation. The Holy Spirit speaks things in this chapter that are very difficult for people to accept (myself included). Paul even posits the accusations against this doctrine that would most likely come up among believers and explains why these accusations, primarily against God's character and sovereignty are incorrect. Coming to grips with this Scripture passage after years of it giving me pause to question its teaching has surprisingly given me great peace because I realize that it isn't my place to question what God has sovereignly decreed, ordained, and willed. I had to come to agree that this teaching about God electing some and not all truly is the wisest way for God to deal with sinful humans. I also have had to come to terms with God's divine right to do as He pleases in all matters. If He chose to show mercy to some and harden others, that is His prerogative as the Creator, Righteous Judge, Savior, and All-Wise God.
Rom. 9 clearly states that election is not dependent upon anything a person does, believes, or wills-it is based, rather, on God's eternal counsel, will, and pleasure. See Eph. 1. Romans 9 does teach that God elects some and not others and that only those who He wills to have mercy on will be saved and those He does not, He hardens. That is pretty harsh, but the text does say that God doesn't save all. See pt. 2
Paul talk about Israel ppl. Thats why he is so "sad". Its not us he talk about.
Now this day i read from old testament. And it suprises me every time how Good God is and forgive and forgive. Not strange that He get upset.
So if u go back and read Romans 8:31-39 so must u understand that all ppl is ment to be saved. But we have this own will!
I dont think it is strange for Irsael to be eartly. Think about all things they have to do to keap all the law.
I look to my self, and if i dont think about His Word everyday, ill become eartly as well. And not only me, we all get that bacteria nowadays with all other stuff we need to do.
Be strong and safe in Jesus name. 1Tim 2:4 One other thing.
Why do u not pray in Jesus name?
Thanks for your input. I will again read through Romans 8-11 as these are all connected together.
Also, I do pray in Jesus' name. Why do you ask me why I do not?
Because I'm just saying, I couldn't dare to ask for anything, if it's not a prayer in Jesus' Holy Name. Thank you very much for your patience with your writings that are well-formulated. My interest is to follow God's Word as far as my understanding has taken me. And I don't think we become less wise with age, but perhaps forgetful.
John 14:12-14
Over the last 3 1/2 years I have written many prayers which included "in Jesus' name" or a similar phrase.
I do believe that when we pray we are praying to the Triune God of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and-because of their unity, if you pray to one of the three persons, you are actually praying to all three. God is one Being in three Persons, so, our prayers are heard and answered by God no matter whom of the Three we address. And, in my private prayers, I often come to before God in the name of Jesus because, as my Lord, Savior and King, He stands with us before the Father in our praying.
I am aware that Jesus instructed us to ask of the Father in His name, but also instructed us to pray to the Father.
With this said, I am surprised that you would question me this way. To me, it seems that you are implying that a prayer is not valid before God if it is not offered in Jesus' name. If this were so, none of the prayers of the OT saints would be acceptable. Yet God did hear and answer such prayers as with Hannah, David, and a multitude more.
I believe that Jesus' statement about praying in His name is that when we pray, we are to believe that we can only come before the Father if we are in Jesus.
So, let's move on from this and not evaluate one another on our prayers that we offer to our God who is greater than our strength or weaknesses.
I don't want to debate but I just want to clear myself from part of your beliefs that you posted.
The only thing you and I agree on is God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of Knowledge.
I don't see how or why you worked the doctrine of election in this when it doesn't have no connection.
I don't hold the view that you do that God ordained some to Hell and some to eternal life!
We've debated that in the past and I am sure you know I strongly disagree with that.
I'm just making it clear to anyone else that may think I'm joined with you in that doctrine.
Again, I'm not wanting to debate this again.
I'm just wanting to make it clear to Kstott and whoever might not know that I don't hold that view.
Thanks and God bless.
What do you know of the mind of God? You write,"The only thing you and I agree on is God knew Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of Knowledge." Wrong.
God gave them free will. God brought His creation before Adam. " and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." (Gen.2.19). What name he chose was the name. God made him a living soul and not a living fool as you making God out to be. He has book of life and he lets his Son his choice too. Thus it is called the book of life and of the Lamb.
The answer to your question is in that thread to the original posting.
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (Adam's offense) AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
BennymkjeI believe there is nothing that God doesn't know,
God is not confined by time!
EVERY act of God is done by his foreknowledge so I describe him as wise!
God presented his love for all humanity before the world begun.
Thanks for responding.
Let brotherly love continue, means pointing out warning sign, 'danger ahead'. Darkness and light are alike to God. But does not imply God will set out place bread one wholesome and the other bad knowing Adam shall eat either one. He places nothing but wholesome for him to eat. In his infinite wisdom he saw Adam should choose as wisely as his Son. It is obedience arising from faith, the same DNA as in his Son.
I made an error on my reply. Where it says "BennymkjeI believe there is nothing that God doesn't know ect ect ect...
It should read "I" believe there is nothing that God doesn't know,
God is not confined by time!
EVERY act of God is done by his foreknowledge so I describe him as wise!
God presented his love for all humanity before the world begun.
Blessings.
GBU
I didn't understand anything you said in either of your messages to me nor do I see what Israel has to do with anything we talked about.
If you are trying to start a dialog on a separate subject with all due respect I am not interested at this time.
Thanks.
I have no dialogue with man other than with my God and with my dear ones near at home and abroad. Rest assured, I leave you at that,
"God has made an everlasting Covenant he does not have to make allowances by 'dispensations' or
allow Israel, despite his Son casting them into outer darkness, be brought back".
You write,'and give me the Word where it says it. I have never heard this before,' Can you tell me what you are referring to?
allow Israel, despite his Son casting them into outer darkness, be brought back. That is something for you to think about.
GBU
The analogy of the olive tree in Rom.11 does not make the kingdom of his dear Son to a tree. Those who have been planted by God shall produce fruits for the glory of God. Jesus referring to Israel says, what God has not planted shall be rooted up. (Mt.15.13). Heresy is in making a not so good analogy in order to sidestep the more serious condemnation of rejecting Jesus and claim, we have no king but Caesar.'
2 Tess 1 God Bless u and yours in Jesus name.
May God bless you and keep your world, I suppose, in Norway safe. May the word of God daily nourish you,
[Comment Removed]
Those who think they were elected by some internal merit or virtue others did not are deluded .
But to all and to any who claim they are even truly elected then take note for it is written " make your election sure!"
Is it not also written there are days coming that will be so wicked and deceitful that " if it was possible even the VERY elect will be deceived "
The called . The chosen . The elect and the very elect .
Many are called but few are chosen .
Every true BORN child of God is called to that " high calling" the Bride of Christ .
But to be born again simply qualifies us to" run the race" it does not win us the prize .
To be BORN again it simply to get out of Egypt by the blood of a lamb ,the Word of God and the Power of God . Then the wilderness is where we are tried tested and proved it is boot camp! Where civilians are turned into soldiers .
It took them just over two YEARS to get to the promised land . The church has made te wandering inthe wilderness fir 40 years the Christian norm!
What does it say concerning the Bride ? She will come out of the wilderness terrible as an army with banners leaning upon her beloved"
Paul warns us not to be like them that " entered not in because of unbelief" unbelief is not just not be.ye ing God it is believing another ( wrong) message !
He expected them to be ready but only TWO were .( so God was justified in thinking they shouid have been)
I agree!
Every single person born of Adams seed is doomed to spend eternity in hell. There is not one person ever born who did not deserve to do so .
Romans 5:12 reads, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
You certainly have to recieve the universal offer of the free LOVE offering of God!!
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:14-18.
I quote verses 17-18 again.
( For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; BUT THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.)
That's the Good news!
Here's the bad news for those reject him.
Verse 18-
He that believeth on him is not condemned: BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!!
It's an invitation to WHOSOEVER will!
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And let him that heareth say, Come.
And let him that is athirst come.
(AND WHOSOEVER WILL) let him take the water of life freely.
The unbeliever is Judged because he rejected the Son of God.
Some will be deceived because they couldn't receive the truth!
Blessings.
But i know many ppl who are curious to the Lord. And for them ill say. Keep hold on, someday He will answer. And have a good life. Becouse He see everything, always. And He will not ever put down ppl who pray and ask to Him. Its like forever thru. He like that. He loves us, why He send His Son to us?
I did say that if we seek Him etc we will find him and they that hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled .
The promises of God are sure and if we come the right way we will find entrance .
The only right way to go to someone's house and expect entrance is to go to the front doir and knock . Trying to find some way round the back makes you but a thief and a robber .
The struggle people have and all have had is to stop trying to find another way .God is patient and king suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth . No one ever comes Shazam ! To the truth in one great blinding light ( not even Paul ) but God leads them step by step to the truth .
Paul's experience on the road to Demascus was not in a vacuum not only was he brought to frustration over the zeal of those he arrested but was faced with Stephens martyrdom and the look on his face .At the very least .
Rarely does anyone get such a conversion but ALL are tought by the Fatyer Jesus said and led to Christ .
But with each step we must recognise the truth and embrace that part for how can two walk together unless they agree ?
That is not so easy expecially when God begins to reveal the true nature character and disposition of your own heart to your self .
But if you can't recognise the truth about yourself who you do know ,how couid your recognise the truth about God who you dont? And if you don't speak the truth about yourself who you do know how then couid you ever speak the truth about God who you don't yet know? False religions don't speak the truth about you themselves let alone God .
The repentant theif crucifued alongside Christ ,spoke the truth about himself then about Christ then put his faith in the Lord and in doing so went into eternity with a promise .
The unrepentant thief went into eternity with nothing .
What I understood was that it was simple: For some it's not easy, if they try in every way and get in touch. I read your post and understood it this way, unfortunately. It was those on the sidelines that I was thinking of in connection with the outrage. Because my faith always makes me believe that God will accept everyone, small and great. The only ones we know it can be difficult for are those who are really rich in wealth, as Jesus says. He knows all heart. Stay close, and Love and peace. 1 Joh 14:13-14
I do think however that there is a lot of spurious 'salvation' messages around that do not convey the Holiness of God and the awfulness of sin (see Romans) which is why I recommended a goid biography of J Bunyan who's struggles prior to his conversion were immense . But look at the result once converted!
Then take Peter the Apostle his journey was not an easy one either .
So don't worry I'm not so easily offended and shouid we not in any case be patient with each other and seek to edify one another rather than get all heated about things?
GB
I am definitely ok with you clarifying how you differ in thought than I do. Have a blessed evening.
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I think that S. Spencer gave a good answer to your question.
I believe that God knows all that is to be known eternally. He alone is able to know the end from the beginning o all matters and events and actions of His creatures. Eternally He ordained to put these two trees in the Garde because it was wisest as to accomplishing His eternal purpose according to His wise counsel and good pleasure to His glory ( Ephesians 1 speaks of this).
God eternally purposed to redeem a people for Himself through the Son. These are those He eternally elected to salvation and are united to the Father due to their union with Jesus, His eternal, divine Son.
Isaiah 55:8-9 speaks of God's ways and thoughts being higher than anything we could think or understand. So, answering your question does entail us mere creatures attempting to "pierce the veil" of God's infinite, perfect, and ineffable nature to find out why He chose to put these trees into the Garden. The best we can do is to believe that God did so according to His eternal decree and purpose for creation.
The Bible is clear that He created to bring Himself glory by exercising His great mercy and grace towards those He elected and to exercise His perfect judgment upon the wicked angels and those He did not elect to salvation. ( Romans 9 speaks about this). We also ought to trust that His overall purpose is perfect, good, and He delights in accomplishing it in time and space.
With these thoughts, I believe that God from eternity determined to ordain evil to come to be in His creation, first through the sinful angels He created good and who then chose evil and then in every human that He creates. He created Adam and Eve good, but He knew that they would submit to the cunning temptation of the evil serpent, Satan who was the first to sin. In their sin, an evil corruption of mankind's good nature occurred that then became the default nature of every human that ever lives.
See part two.
(The tree of knowledge of good and evil)
Here is my viewpoint.
God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all the earth and to dress the Garden of Eden.
I believe evil existed on the earth, but Adam and Eve had no knowledge of it. (KEEP IN MIND SATAN HAD ALREADY FALLEN AT THIS POINT)
Adam and Eve was naked literally and figuratively (Uncovered or vulnerable to sin with no atonement for sin.)
I believe God put the Tree of knowledge of good and evil to give Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him or disobey Him, knowing they would eat of it. Without a knowledge of evil or transgression there is no sin.
THIS DIDNT CATCH GOD BY SURPRISE!
The Lord Jesus was ordained to come into the world as the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world AND TO REDEEM THAT WHICH WAS LOST before the world begun.
1 Peter 1:19-20.
Ephesians 1:4.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (The plan for Jesus's sacrifice was in place before the world's creation.)
Everlasting life was to never come by the first Adam but by the last. 1 Corinthians 15:45.
There may be different views on this.
God bless.
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