Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Jesse - 11 months ago
    (Revelation Part 14a):

    Revelation 1:19 - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    He says, write the things which thou hast seen. That's Verses 9 through 20. And the things which are, Chapters 2 and 3, and the things which shall be META TOUTA, meaning after these things; Chapter 4 through Chapter 22. Again, the breakdown of the book.

    Revelation 1:20 - The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    Now before we leave this, there is a disagreement as to who the angels are. Now who they are, and I don't know them by name, but the word angel, ANGELOS in Greek is also translated messenger. In the gospels, it's used for human beings who are sent out with messages. They are called messengers.

    So, there are many that believe that these angels are the messengers of the churches, that is, the pastors of the churches, because angels don't pastor churches.

    But I'll share the following:

    Number one, in John's writings, the gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3rd John, and Revelation, he never uses the word ANGELOS for human messengers, never.

    Secondly, in literature, when he starts off the book in Verse 1 by saying that Christ gave it to His angel in order to show John, once a writer establishes a definition for you, if he was going to use the same word to describe somebody else, he would give you that information before he moved on. But he doesn't. It always means angel.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 11 months ago
    (Revelation Part 16b):

    Revelation 2:4 Continued

    If we have a person that we love the most, we'll make decisions to honor that person, and cater to that person above the Lord, because after all, the Lord loves us, and it's an age of grace and He understands, you know? People don't, so we don't want people angry at us or upset at us!

    But even Jesus, when He was here in the flesh, He said if anybody loves mother or father, or brother or sister, or wife, or lands, or houses above me, you can't be my disciple. That's pretty tough! In one place, He actually used the word hate. That's not the word for hate in the sense of hateful actions. MISEO is a word of comparison. In other words, Jesus said you must love me so much that others think you hate them.

    It doesn't mean you go home and kick everybody in the shins and say the Lord told me to hate you to show my love for Him. No, it doesn't mean that. It means you're so devoted and committed to Christ that everybody else thinks you hate them, which isn't true.

    Ephesus is the example of the apostolic church, the apostolic church that held firm to the apostle's doctrine, that had such a fervent love for the Lord, but it began to wane, and it became dull. And it became "church as usual." People dedicated themselves to the church and church work, but privately, Christ was not a priority. This was the apostolic church which ran from A.D. 30 through A.D. 300.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 11 months ago
    (Revelation Part 16a):

    Revelation 2:4 - Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

    Nevertheless I have something against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. That's it!

    The word first in Greek does not make reference to time. It's not their first love from ten years ago when they received Christ. It is a word of priority. You have left your first love. In other words, they started off by making Christ the priority in everything. But as time went on, they began to wear down.

    They put their efforts into working in the church and doing the church work and testing people to see if they're truly apostles or not, but in their personal lives, the top priority of Christ has now slipped away. In Exodus Chapter 20:3 (The Ten Commandments), God says you shall have no other gods before me. That's what the King James says. But in the Hebrew, it's you shall have no other gods beside me.

    In other words, God's not just first, and then maybe my career second, and then third is this, and so on. No, God says I'm it. You can have no other gods beside me. I'm the only one that you can have! And here is Christ telling the church, remember the first and great commandment is love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength. And the second command is this: love your neighbor as yourself.

    You see, we're also in a day where we really emphasize loving our neighbor. What about loving God? What about top priority? What about in our decision making? Is He our first love? You can see why this is important. I've mentioned this before that all the decisions we make are based on what or who we love the most.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 11 months ago
    (Revelation Part 15):

    Revelation 2:2 - I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

    He says I know thy works. Every church will have this phrase spoken to them, I know your works. God knows everything. And He evaluates the church. But He says I know your works, and your labor, and the Greek word means to work to the point of exhaustion.

    And your patience, which is literally the word for endurance, HUPOMONE. And how you cannot bear them which are evil: And the word bear means to carry on the shoulders. You can't tolerate people who are evil. And you have tried them, you tested them, who say they are apostles, who are not, and you have found them to be liars:

    In Verse 3, we have the summaries:

    Revelation 2:3 - And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

    And you have borne, meaning you tolerated. You have patience, meaning you remain under. And for my sake you have labored, and that's a Perfect Tense verb, again, labored to the point of exhaustion. And you have not fainted, that is, you have not grown weary.

    Now I don't know about you, but I'd take that church. This is a serving church, a working church. They remain under, they're patient, they cannot bear evil people, and they put everybody to the test to see if they're liars or not, and they been found to be liars.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 11 months ago
    (Revelation Part 14b):

    Revelation 1:20 Continued

    In Revelation 1:1 that I just described for you, God gave the revelation to Christ, who gave it to an angel, who gave it to John. But even more telling than that is Revelation Chapter 22 Verse 6, the final chapter in Revelation. Jesus, in giving the warnings to people to take heed to what's being said, and He said unto me, these sayings are faithful and true.

    And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show unto His servants, plural, the things which shortly must be done. So even in Chapter 22, the testimony of Christ is that everything in this book is faithful and true.

    And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show these things to His servants, and that would be the servants in the churches, the things which must shortly be done. That's what the book began with. He's an angel. God uses angels. I don't know why. But it seems as though angels have some kind of ministry in the physical realm.

    After Jesus was tempted in the wilderness for 40 days, the angels came and ministered to Him. That is, they brought Him the food and the physical things that He needed. In the book of Revelation, we'll see that angels are in charge of physical activities. They hold the wind. So, they have a certain function that God created them for.

    At the end of Hebrews Chapter 1, it says the angels are ministering spirits sent to those who have obtained salvation. You and I have angels around us. And churches have angels. Every fellowship that is established by Christ has angels.

    When you study Chapters 2 and 3, you will study the seven messages to the seven churches. And I'm sure that you will find it quite fascinating. It is the Lord's final prophecy to His church before He comes back. And I think you'll be interested in what the Lord has to say of the church, even in our day.



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