Bible Discussion Thread

Good evening! I have a question. Do we mostly believe that land was promised in the first covenant of God by Moses or was land only promised in the renewed covenant after the first was broken? I have been thinking about this today. Hope everyone is well!

Carleton

Hello Carleton,

My understanding is the God gave the land to Abraham when He established His covenant with Abraham in Genesis.

Good morning GIGI! Yes, God delivered/kept his promise to Abraham even with the golden calf grave error.

Carleton

As an addendum the promises given to David ruling with Christ as well as Christ Himself ruling and reigning after he comes back to break apart the Mount of Olives and many other prophetic verses especially in Isaiah clearly demonstrate the land of Israel will be under the natural man (those that survive the Tribulation) and we who are returned after that time in glorified bodies. The Holy City will hang over the earth and eventually descend ( Rev 21; 22) and Isaiah 66 shows that hell will also be outside the city.

Thank you Richard! I am still thinking that there is a spiritual Israel through the Law of Moses that was seen again perfectly at the transfiguration and a natural Israel that was led over land to the cross. My thought is being part of any war related to the land by natural Israel as I believe like spiritual Israel, when I was born again I am with Jesus now in his rest.

Morning meditations.

God bless our faithfulness.

I would say look at Zechariah 11:10. It is the only place I can see God breaking a covenant; and that is to usher in ultimately Christ's return and national repentance of the 1/3 that are refined in the Tribulation. These factors were said to be initiated with the church and the initial destruction in AD 70 of the Jews; but it is more completely fulfilled in the time of "Jacob's trouble".

God; of course has a new covenant for all who will believe by creating a new heart in those who would come to faith; but some day the Jews will be "provoked to jealousy" as Romans 12 or 14 states. Other places talk of God continuing his promises when the covenant is violated as man can never be the ultimate one who determines such a thing. Probably the Antichrist and his own turning against their covenant of "death and hell" as Isaiah puts it is also reflecting God's breaking of protection as He is the one who gives the permission for the authority of this individual and his sidekick for 3 1/2 years. They will have of course rejoiced with the world in the death of the 2 witnesses beforehand and the world will be ready to take the mark. Sad reality.

re. your statement on the Zech quote, you write 'the only place I can see God breaking a covenant' let me add. Seeing is not believing so let me add this for your careful attention. The covenants mentioned by Carleton as though so many as business cards one distribute to all and sundry to merit any answer but you quote Zechariah and if you read carefully it must be clear that 'the covenant' it refers is Person specific. So we have 30 pieces of silver mentioned,. The three shepherds figure in Mt.26.15 "And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver." Zech. 11.12-13 was fulfilled The covenant is solely limited to 'the slain Lamb before the beginning of the world'.

In v.8 "Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me." Who are they? They lord over the poor of the flock. "1. Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty:2. and they that sell them say, Blessed be the Lord; for I am rich: 3.and their own shepherds pity them not."(v.5). They covenanted with Judas Iscariot so the Spirit clearly instructs us who are these, "and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord." The just shall live by faith and they 'waited upon me'

Besided the number Three always is used as tag by the Spirit in direct frame of reference to the Son. There os only one faith and consequently one Covenant to which we are bound.

Let me add further to the firstS

The shepherd motif here used by Zechariah here sets him as the double for Jesus Christ. Jesus as the Good shepherd.

'That waited upon me knew that it was the word of the Lord' and It is the Word which was God and Jesus Christ for the same reason is same yesterday, today and forever. What does it mean? The motif of the Lamb slain connects with the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world ( Jn 1.19). The same Spirit of God ought to correctly interpret the text. "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him./And I knew him not." By literalism and by preconceived notion to establish Israel by hook or crook, sects interpret but John would be helped by the Holy Spirit.What is 30 pieces? 3x10 where 10 is a number of condemnation, the decalogue and law of sin and death was settled. "and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver:" (Gen.37.28) Compare the significance of the 20. Sin of his brethren was in 2x10 Against God and thee as the prodigal son would say,"Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,"(Lk.15.16)

Breaking the staff in the book of Zechariah has two meanings. " My covenant which I had made with all the people." refers to his Son as the Saviour of the whole world." With all the people. This is the primary sense. In the narrow sense,"that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."(v.14) This explains Bands. The other staff Beauty breaking the connection between Israel and Christ. He takes the symbol of the Last Adam instead. Beauty of his holiness, " Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth."(Ps.110.3)