My husband and I have been at odds for many years about Calvinism. So much so it really is a point of contention. I am currently 29 weeks pregnant and he has been becoming in my opinion Obsessed with this topic to the point where it has surpassed acceptable behaviors! He can not realize I will not ever agree with him on this topic, and I'm sorry to all the calvinist out there but he has become a tyrant and aggressive and I am worried all of the stress will effect the baby! Before I was pregnant I would debate him to a degree before you realize you have been sucked into a never ending cycle, and I would walk away or we would end up screaming at each other. Personally very disgusting to me to even think about. This is the work of the devil, Christ is not the author of confusion but of PEACE... And this is breaking my heart. I have contacted his Dad who is also a Christian and he won't even listen to him. At what point do I get other Christian men involved because he is putting me and the baby at risk with his constant barrage of Calvinism. I am extremely frustrated and devastated being pregnant I do not want to bring a child into this!! My heart breaks thinking about it. Thank you.
Hi, you have received many good answers here. I would still like to give you a few words.
If you want to give it time, it's nothing to worry about. You think differently, so what. Because in the context of faith it's about authority. Your husband should have authority. And then you should follow that. But then we have an important truth that your husband must take into account. If he is not the man the Lord wants him to be, what is there between you? True, think about it. Does your husband carry you through the days, does he honor you as a weaker vessel, is he kind and thoughtful. He lifts you up and supports you in your interests going forward. If not, he will not get answers to his prayers. It is clear and obvious. 1 Pet 3:7 When he then encounters resistance, what do you think he will do? You know not everyone agrees with the Lutheran position either. You are not that different. I get the impression that your husband demands that you believe as he does and then there are opinions that are difficult to deal with. You must always support each other and build each other up, never tear each other down or destroy. The two things in the world that are the most difficult to discuss are child rearing and religion. I advise you not to talk about it, as long as you two are so biased in your own confession of faith. Since this is not a new topic for you, I also believe that there may be a certain pride or selfishness to prove to the pet and the cretin that "I have something that you don't have, type". Everything that exalts itself is pride, we can pray against that. "Pride disappear into the deepest darkness in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen". Then we are talking about childishness which also through the study of God's Word will make man grow in knowledge. I am sure that if you are willing to search in the Spirituality yourself, the answers will come. And I wish you luck, nothing is as valuable as having someone you can trust in this life. Good luck with your pregnancy.
Thank you for responding also!! I value all opinions and people's time. I'm thankful for the reproof also! I ask the Lord frequently is there a purpose in all of this contention? And I do believe that it is a refining tool the LORD is using. Because GOD knows our deepest most inner parts... I desire nothing more than to have a great marriage, where things are simple and we can celebrate our Love for the LORD together, raise our child in the fear and admonition of the LORD. But like Paul I'm stuck, how do I perform. It doesn't help that we do not have a home Church. So it really just is me and him rubbing elbows all the time.... Please pray that the LORD will help me, change my heart, to be more helpful in this situation. Because it is hard to have someone do a 180 on you and go full force into in this case different doctrine. But I'm ok with it, that he has his own mind, he is just very obsessed. And that is the contention.
Dear "Jesusgirl87", we pray for you that everything will work out for you an your family. And maybe with the child present that everything will be shared. Maybe everything is in an exaggerated context. For which there may be solutions. Everything will probably work out in the end and preserve your heart above all. I wish you both good luck, and come by here, to have a congregation, until you find something more solid. Good luck in Jesus name. Acts 4:23-31 Love u
Thank you Free! Today we actually stopped into a friends Church, what a blessing , Instant lift of our spirits. I am thankful for all the prayers... And the insights.... And scripture... God bless...
Hello Jesusgirl87. I have appreciated other's comments already given, as you have also. I wanted to write earlier, but hesitated till now.
I just wanted to state that your husband's condition (in respect to his pressing you to conform to his belief), is not uncommon. A friend of mine (& not a believer), also presents such a condition (or personality). He can be very focussed, compulsive, even to the point of harboring rage over a matter that he believes in, when that matter is not being favorably considered by others. Simply, this is about what he has learned about maintaining smooth traffic flow at road intersections, using roundabouts. He is correct in that they do greatly help and do lower accident rates, but his fixation on this has so consumed his time & energies, that for more than ten years now, he has directed mail to the same govt authorities over and over again. I've tried to calm him down, even stating that after a few emails on the matter, most of these authorities would simply see his name and trash the mail, not wanting to waste their time with this constant repetition and barrage. But he remains unmoved.
This friend does have a psychological disorder, and unfortunately, has caused the complete breakdown of his marriage (on other issues). When he gets into such a state with me, I've learned to bear with him & respond appropriately until he lets the matter go. But within such a special relationship as a marriage, I know that it must be so painful with a sense of hopelessness, when real love still exists between the couple. Does your husband recognize he has a problem & prepared to go for counseling? His (or your) Church elder/pastor should be more than willing to mediate/guide to a proper approach to theological differences. Those having ADHD or OCD typically reflect such behaviors; is he willing to be helped in this regard? Please keep the matter in prayer, as well as stay calm & oblige him so that your health & the baby are not placed at risk.
And thank you also for responding! It is a blessing to have communication with other believers and get insight that I need... And yes your friends situation is definitely sad and unfortunate also with his marriage.. I do believe that people can become sooo fixated on something that they act insane over it. As you know also. My Husband is a great man, loves the Lord a great provider, but he definitely becomes a dog with a bone about certain things and he goes overboard like he has to prove he is right. And it is overwhelming. Before I was pregnant not a problem I didn't like the stress but I could handle it better, now I have a precious gift inside of me and I can't think of myself so my focus has switched to our child... We do not have a home Church as of now, our area is very limited on what is available in the sense of Biblical churches. So please keep that in we both want to be in Church but can't figure out where to go in our situation. We used to be very involved in evangelism, passing out tracks in Rochester Buffalo, attend all sorts of Fellowships then COVID happened the churches shut down so we opened our home and we had people here twice a week great Fellowships lots of food and then churches opened back up people moved on seasons change and we have tried a few different Churches but they were either way to legalistic or extremely Calvinist. My Husband is not open to counseling, I have suggested that, so I don't know I just try to make the best of everyday...
Thank you Jesusgirl87 for your reply. I continue to feel very sad for you and the situation you're in, though I was impressed that you still saw in your husband a wonderful man & a strong believer. I simply can't fathom how a husband cannot be sensitive and moved that his wife is carrying his child and is being weighted down by sadness & worry because of his dogmatism. I know that as humans we generally like to impress our beliefs upon others, especially when we are firmly convinced by them, but to take the matter to the point as he is doing seems very difficult to understand. I wonder if he maintains such a stance when dealing in other areas of his life/experiences; such as in the workplace, with friends/colleagues, political/govt policies, etc. If it is only to you that he presents himself as overly driven, then to have you on-side accepting his beliefs, is truly carrying his determination too far. I don't believe that any married couple can agree on everything, simply because we are different people with different backgrounds, personalities, interests, etc. I will continue to pray that he might understand this and be a true spiritual leader in the family and not overbearing causing you pain. Keep waiting on the Lord dear sister for strength & forbearance, trusting the Lord to show your husband where he has erred & the need for change in his life.
Amen, thank you Chris!! It is hard to handle in my flesh because I know what he is doing is not ok. But in my spirit I look at him as a sinner just like me and GOD knows I fall short of HIS Glory every day... So that helps me to try to overlook certain things. But in the beginning of my pregnancy he was wonderful, gentle, but lately something has happened. I know we have a lot going on but it's not just me and him anymore there is another more precious. So your prayers are so appreciated... We actually visited a friends Church today! Oh my gosh it was such a a blessing... Really we needed it... Thank you so much Chris for your prayers. If I can return the favor please let me know... God bless...
And thank you for taking the time to respond to me!! I appreciate it very much. And definitely will be praying that the Lord will help me to deal with my Husband in a way that is honoring to him and the Lord. This whole situation started about 6 years ago when we were attending a Calvinist Church, by the way that I did love, but did not know at the time they were reformed, until we attended a Bible study at the Pastor's house. And he stated that they were all Calvinist but not hyper Calvinist. I thought in my mind, what is that?? And mentioned it to my Husband after and he didn't even recall the Pastor saying that. But from there I had to find out what it was about, which has lead to years of studying the Scriptures, listening to both sides and hearing/ reading about Calvinism from all different views. And coming to the conclusion that I personally can't support that view with my own study of the Word. I have absolutely no problem with people holding other views than me, I actually celebrate the fact of independent thought. But I also respect the fact that we all will not agree and I have learned in my walk with the Lord that you cannot force someone to believe what you believe. So if someone asks my opinion I will give it but I have also learned that my opinion is always needed or warranted so I try to keep things to myself. I love my Husband He is a great man, and I love his zeal, but it being aimed at me non stop is crushing my spirit.
Good for you for inquiring on this topic for yourself. You are in my prayers over this tension in your marriage. I can only imagine how disturbing it must be to both of you.
My husband and I have never had that kind of rift between us in all these years as we think alike on matters that are truly important.
Here is a funny thing that happened many years ago. We were discussing some topic and my husband told me, "I know why I married you, because you think like a man. I laughed at that, was not offended at all, and said that what he said is probably true because if I thought like a woman I probably would want to slap him. We had a good laugh about that and revisit it every once in a while. I am sure he said that because I am very matter-of-fact, logical, and do not let my emotions get in the way of discussing topics. I guess being this way would be pretty similar to how men think they are but I do have women friends who are very similar to me. We laugh at this story, too.
I am so sorry for the grief you are experiencing. I pray that the Lord will give you a calm and peaceful mental and emotional state in these last few months of your pregnancy. Pretty soon your baby will be in your arms and then the joy of this new life and the reality of how sacrificial parenting is and will continue to be begins to gel for both Mom and Dad.
For me, parenting was so so enjoyable for me. I was able to stay home and "mom" our boys 24/7 until our youngest was 12 or so. The sacrifices we made to provide a loving Christian environment were valued by us and we were happy to do so for all those years. I even hated sending my kiddos to school every September to be taught by someone I did not really know. Perhaps I am not the norm in this. One of my friends was the same way raising her kids.
But you and your husband will find your own way to do this life work for the Lord and for the sake of your children. I pray that you can set this disagreeing on this topic aside.
Thank you Gigi, we truly need them... I know the LORD is working on this somehow, but it's hard for me to see it. God knows what is in our hearts and what our desires are. I love my Husband and can't wait for this new addition to our family I'm in the valley though right now. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's dark. But who am I, my LORD and God was a man of sorrows, had no place to lay His head... So I should expect no less, He said I will NEVER leave thee nor forsake thee...
I wish to continue here as I ran out of room on my first post.
Asking your husband to refrain from beating you up with his Calvinism and instead trust the Holy Spirit to help you to understand the topic better. Also, you can let him know you are willing to talk about what you are thinking about what you learn when YOU are willing to converse about it using your Bible and notes you have compiled with your "AHA's" and questions. Ask him to treat your opinions with respect and to also give you credit for having a good mind that the Spirit is sanctifying to become the mind of Christ just like he has. And tell him that you commit to doing likewise to him. These remarks spoken in a calm way with sincerity and honesty may open doors to better communication.
And lastly, ask him to study your theological approach for himself so as to gain understanding of why you believe as you do. In this way, you both will be honoring one another's thinking processes under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and also each will grow in your openness to another's viewpoint that you at the present disagree on. I cannot say what you both will eventually embrace as a theological mindset based on the Scriptures but I do know that the Holy Spirit will increase your harmony as
a couple and will bring to your relationship movement towards consensus on doctrines that truly matter as believers.
I will be praying for you, your husband and your baby. Do not chock up your high emotions in this matter to being pregnant. That is a cop-out that too many use to excuse behaviors that really should be tempered by the Holy Spirit. But I do understand your concern for your baby. Just know that the things you disagree on in this situation do not need to be "solved" right away or even before your baby is born, or for quite some time when your baby is very young. What need to be solved over time is how each of you react to one another that leads to screaming, hurt feelings, and anger.
My husband ad I have been married 45 years and both of our spiritual understanding of Scripture principles have grow and changed over the years. God is at work in each believer to bring them to correct knowledge of the truth of His Word. This also is in store for you and your husband as you continue to love, honor, ad submit to one another as you walk as one in the Lord and agree together to live a life of obedience to God and His Word both individually and as a couple who has been united in marriage.
My suggestion to you is to pray for the Lord to give you a heart of submissiveness to your husband as he has been given to you to be your spiritual head. It is not always easy for us women to submit to our husband but we are instructed to do so in God's Word. However, this submission is a mutual affair. We are to submit to one another as the Lord leads and guides us by his Spirit.
So, neither you nor your husband are the ultimate "head" in your marriage, Jesus is.
When we disagree within our marriage we personally should pray for God to humble us, to give us a meekness that does not attack the other or their viewpoint, to have a teachable spirit, and to be driven to God's Word as the final authority.
I also would like to suggest that you begin to study Calvinistic theology from Calvinists. There are many sites that you can use to search what Calvinism truly teaches. Most people who oppose it strongly have not done this but just go on distorted perceptions of what this theological approach teaches. I suggest that you pray for a mindset that will set aside you strong points of disagreement and give this approach a truly fair chance to be resented to you. You may come to still disagree with it or you may be convinced on what Calvinism presets on some or many points.
As for your husband, instead of getting into a battle over this, you can inform him that you are going to study Calvinism for yourself and ask him to give you room and time to do so
Thank you for your response, I hope I can clarify some things for you. I didn't marry a Calvinist. I have been with my husband for almost 14 years, and this specific point of contention has been going on for about 6 years. It would completely not be a big deal to me if my husband did not make it such a mission to argue and debate me every single day on something we do not agree on. No where in my comment did I ever say I screamed at my husband and called him a tyrant, I said he is acting like one and his behavior is causing me stress that goes right to my child, it is the exact opposite of Christ like and what Men are commanded to do in the Word of GOD while handling the Word of GOD... Paul states to Timothy, not to be contentious, but rather he says as a nurse... Etc... And thank you for your view on women being pregnant but I can assure you that my emotions are not out of control... I am seeking BIBLICAL advice on how to move forward with an issue.
Like you, I do not believe Calvinism is true but I don't see it as such a big deal as you. You made it this far to marry and have kids- maybe you never discussed it before, proving that it already wasn't that important of an issue to you before. Many Christians have differing views on this and many are married and attend the same churches. Do you know if you disagree with all 5 pillars or just some? I think the 2 biggest are them believing they don't have freewill and not believing Jesus died for everyone like 1 John 2:2 says. You probably disagree with way more than just that if you actually read through the whole Bible together and line by line compared your interpretations. But why assume you have to agree on everything for a marriage to work? No two Christians will agree on everything and that's normal because we're all individuals. Why not instead focus on the main things you have in common? You're both Christians, believe in Jesus, and probably have more in common that you are realizing.
Maybe the real question is why are you choosing to have such a strong reaction to this of all things. You mention you're even worried for your family, but isn't your choice to view and react this way the real threat, instead of the viewpoints themselves? "extremely frustrated, devastated" are not normal reactions to just a difference of opinion. Did you really yell at your husband and call him a tyrant?! That's in violation of the Bible's teachings, probably marital vows to him, and that's unacceptable for a wife to treat her husband that way. That's the only thing shocking about this. Women sometimes have amplified emotions while pregnant. What if the opinions of Calvinism are simply a distraction from the real attack from the enemy deceiving you into resenting and disrespecting your husband? Ephesians 5:23-33 God bless you.
I could say more about this but it is sufficient to say that the God who designed His plans ahead of time also made a covenant with a husband and wife which sadly many Calvanists and those in the Reformed movement in general don't like to adhere to the one spouse for life mandate. What is of course going on is the enemy is trying to wreck your marriage; which is more than a contract between two people.
There are few on either camp when it comes to Arminianism and Calvanism who disagree on certain fundamental issues; namely that some scripture indicates God's predestined plan for many things. If indeed that was being argued against I can understand the frustration.
The first major problem here is whenever a doctrine comes up like this is when it overshadows the basic Gospel truths common to all parties concerned; namely that Christ died on Calvary to bring atonement to all who would believe in His name.
The next issue is why he is so obsessed; is it something he is preaching of his own volition; or is he surrounded by those in church; fellowship or friends who align with this sort of militant campaign in that direction? It would help to understand in order to pray for your situation.
You shall know them by their fruits. This should indicate love; joy; peace; longsuffering; etc. and should follow the guidelines of 1 Cor. 13. This is something you may be able to seek on your own. Of course a child is innocent; even if we argue about being born in sin; I look at Psalm 8:2 and other verses that show that God saves them out of grace much as He does for others above the age of accountability. Having angels beholding the face of God is something that we need to consider carefully; as well as the sanctity of the marriage covenant. Thus; I would advise that you tell him you are praying for these issues and see what happens. I hope it isn't the case but he may use things as excuses to disrupt the marriage with the stress of childbirth.
Thank you Richard I truly appreciate and do believe in the power of prayer He might be doing this because of stress from the new baby, he has a very demanding job we both worked for the same company I recently left due to the pregnancy so I understand and can sympathize with what he deals with there. But he listens to podcasts or sermons while on the road as did I while I was working too. But he started listening to Calvin's institute's and from there no offense, it has went downhill very fast! He is relentless. We do not have a church unfortunately, because of this very issue. We cannot agree on where to go and what we have available to us is not the greatest selection. It is what he is listening to that is driving him. I came to the conclusion a long time ago about 6 years that this has been going on, but that I would not bring up things I know we do not agree on or that I know will start fights, that are not worth it. But he is the exact opposite... It truly is sad...
There is more that I could say and add as to Calvin's own behaviors; and that of Luthor also; they weren't exactly congenial if you have done any research on it. Also Calvin actually didn't come up with the whole TULIP anacronism; and there are some doubts he seemed to have on the limited atonement business.
I was in a rather hypercalvanist group for a while when I was still in Pittsburgh. It was a home church; which if you were in the area you'd probably recognize as they were very faithful in regular evangelism and taking trips to other cities on occasion. I have seen anger issues over the subject and again; that fits into my statement where people place election and predestination as something idolized and elevated above the overall context of scripture.
I have a suspicion but this may just be my own experience in the past; but there is a tendancy to have a Post Millenial point of view in this situation. It was on my mind today as there is in general a "religious" spirit that allows for certain obsessive mindsets to develop.
If I have to surrender my own convictions on the subject to maintain communication here; that is your call; I pretty much believe in the concepts in scripture of Predestination and the five points. Proper context as to what something actually means is important and I would also say that I don't think God has a problem with people having the ability to make choices or "free will" within certain parameters. Of course we don't know all the secret counsels of God ( Deut. 29:29) a good verse to remember.
In short for me it gives me assurance with those I and others have tried to reach that God knows at least who comes to Him and who doesn't. In no way should that stop prayer or evangelism.
I will pray you find some local fellowship. Discussion among other men can be helpful; also check out other home Bible studies.
Hope I haven't said too much and hope to continue to hear from you.
Richard, I appreciate you and Gigi, because I know you are both Calvinist or reformed but you are very patient with me and faithful I will say in this ministry of prayer and communication within the brethren... I do appreciate it. And I appreciate that you have a stance on Scripture but are not pummeling me with it. And there are things that I do not agree with on the " Baptist" side that I do agree with on the Calvinist side, nothing on the 5 points or doctrines of GRACE but there are a few... But that is the beauty I guess of the LORD building HIS Church, His Bride we are all different members of ONE body... I pray the Lord will change me through this situation, not my situation. Even though it is very umm... abrasive lol ..
My husband and I have been at odds for many years about Calvinism. So much so it really is a point of contention. I am currently 29 weeks pregnant and he has been becoming in my opinion Obsessed with this topic to the point where it has surpassed acceptable behaviors! He can not realize I will not ever agree with him on this topic, and I'm sorry to all the calvinist out there but he has become a tyrant and aggressive and I am worried all of the stress will effect the baby! Before I was pregnant I would debate him to a degree before you realize you have been sucked into a never ending cycle, and I would walk away or we would end up screaming at each other. Personally very disgusting to me to even think about. This is the work of the devil, Christ is not the author of confusion but of PEACE... And this is breaking my heart. I have contacted his Dad who is also a Christian and he won't even listen to him. At what point do I get other Christian men involved because he is putting me and the baby at risk with his constant barrage of Calvinism. I am extremely frustrated and devastated being pregnant I do not want to bring a child into this!! My heart breaks thinking about it. Thank you.
If you want to give it time, it's nothing to worry about. You think differently, so what. Because in the context of faith it's about authority. Your husband should have authority. And then you should follow that. But then we have an important truth that your husband must take into account. If he is not the man the Lord wants him to be, what is there between you? True, think about it. Does your husband carry you through the days, does he honor you as a weaker vessel, is he kind and thoughtful. He lifts you up and supports you in your interests going forward. If not, he will not get answers to his prayers. It is clear and obvious. 1 Pet 3:7 When he then encounters resistance, what do you think he will do? You know not everyone agrees with the Lutheran position either. You are not that different. I get the impression that your husband demands that you believe as he does and then there are opinions that are difficult to deal with. You must always support each other and build each other up, never tear each other down or destroy. The two things in the world that are the most difficult to discuss are child rearing and religion. I advise you not to talk about it, as long as you two are so biased in your own confession of faith. Since this is not a new topic for you, I also believe that there may be a certain pride or selfishness to prove to the pet and the cretin that "I have something that you don't have, type". Everything that exalts itself is pride, we can pray against that. "Pride disappear into the deepest darkness in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen". Then we are talking about childishness which also through the study of God's Word will make man grow in knowledge. I am sure that if you are willing to search in the Spirituality yourself, the answers will come. And I wish you luck, nothing is as valuable as having someone you can trust in this life. Good luck with your pregnancy.
Thank you for responding also!! I value all opinions and people's time. I'm thankful for the reproof also! I ask the Lord frequently is there a purpose in all of this contention? And I do believe that it is a refining tool the LORD is using. Because GOD knows our deepest most inner parts... I desire nothing more than to have a great marriage, where things are simple and we can celebrate our Love for the LORD together, raise our child in the fear and admonition of the LORD. But like Paul I'm stuck, how do I perform. It doesn't help that we do not have a home Church. So it really just is me and him rubbing elbows all the time.... Please pray that the LORD will help me, change my heart, to be more helpful in this situation. Because it is hard to have someone do a 180 on you and go full force into in this case different doctrine. But I'm ok with it, that he has his own mind, he is just very obsessed. And that is the contention.
I just wanted to state that your husband's condition (in respect to his pressing you to conform to his belief), is not uncommon. A friend of mine (& not a believer), also presents such a condition (or personality). He can be very focussed, compulsive, even to the point of harboring rage over a matter that he believes in, when that matter is not being favorably considered by others. Simply, this is about what he has learned about maintaining smooth traffic flow at road intersections, using roundabouts. He is correct in that they do greatly help and do lower accident rates, but his fixation on this has so consumed his time & energies, that for more than ten years now, he has directed mail to the same govt authorities over and over again. I've tried to calm him down, even stating that after a few emails on the matter, most of these authorities would simply see his name and trash the mail, not wanting to waste their time with this constant repetition and barrage. But he remains unmoved.
This friend does have a psychological disorder, and unfortunately, has caused the complete breakdown of his marriage (on other issues). When he gets into such a state with me, I've learned to bear with him & respond appropriately until he lets the matter go. But within such a special relationship as a marriage, I know that it must be so painful with a sense of hopelessness, when real love still exists between the couple. Does your husband recognize he has a problem & prepared to go for counseling? His (or your) Church elder/pastor should be more than willing to mediate/guide to a proper approach to theological differences. Those having ADHD or OCD typically reflect such behaviors; is he willing to be helped in this regard? Please keep the matter in prayer, as well as stay calm & oblige him so that your health & the baby are not placed at risk.
And thank you also for responding! It is a blessing to have communication with other believers and get insight that I need... And yes your friends situation is definitely sad and unfortunate also with his marriage.. I do believe that people can become sooo fixated on something that they act insane over it. As you know also. My Husband is a great man, loves the Lord a great provider, but he definitely becomes a dog with a bone about certain things and he goes overboard like he has to prove he is right. And it is overwhelming. Before I was pregnant not a problem I didn't like the stress but I could handle it better, now I have a precious gift inside of me and I can't think of myself so my focus has switched to our child... We do not have a home Church as of now, our area is very limited on what is available in the sense of Biblical churches. So please keep that in we both want to be in Church but can't figure out where to go in our situation. We used to be very involved in evangelism, passing out tracks in Rochester Buffalo, attend all sorts of Fellowships then COVID happened the churches shut down so we opened our home and we had people here twice a week great Fellowships lots of food and then churches opened back up people moved on seasons change and we have tried a few different Churches but they were either way to legalistic or extremely Calvinist. My Husband is not open to counseling, I have suggested that, so I don't know I just try to make the best of everyday...
I meant presented to you, not resented in my first response to you.
And thank you for taking the time to respond to me!! I appreciate it very much. And definitely will be praying that the Lord will help me to deal with my Husband in a way that is honoring to him and the Lord. This whole situation started about 6 years ago when we were attending a Calvinist Church, by the way that I did love, but did not know at the time they were reformed, until we attended a Bible study at the Pastor's house. And he stated that they were all Calvinist but not hyper Calvinist. I thought in my mind, what is that?? And mentioned it to my Husband after and he didn't even recall the Pastor saying that. But from there I had to find out what it was about, which has lead to years of studying the Scriptures, listening to both sides and hearing/ reading about Calvinism from all different views. And coming to the conclusion that I personally can't support that view with my own study of the Word. I have absolutely no problem with people holding other views than me, I actually celebrate the fact of independent thought. But I also respect the fact that we all will not agree and I have learned in my walk with the Lord that you cannot force someone to believe what you believe. So if someone asks my opinion I will give it but I have also learned that my opinion is always needed or warranted so I try to keep things to myself. I love my Husband He is a great man, and I love his zeal, but it being aimed at me non stop is crushing my spirit.
Good for you for inquiring on this topic for yourself. You are in my prayers over this tension in your marriage. I can only imagine how disturbing it must be to both of you.
My husband and I have never had that kind of rift between us in all these years as we think alike on matters that are truly important.
Here is a funny thing that happened many years ago. We were discussing some topic and my husband told me, "I know why I married you, because you think like a man. I laughed at that, was not offended at all, and said that what he said is probably true because if I thought like a woman I probably would want to slap him. We had a good laugh about that and revisit it every once in a while. I am sure he said that because I am very matter-of-fact, logical, and do not let my emotions get in the way of discussing topics. I guess being this way would be pretty similar to how men think they are but I do have women friends who are very similar to me. We laugh at this story, too.
I am so sorry for the grief you are experiencing. I pray that the Lord will give you a calm and peaceful mental and emotional state in these last few months of your pregnancy. Pretty soon your baby will be in your arms and then the joy of this new life and the reality of how sacrificial parenting is and will continue to be begins to gel for both Mom and Dad.
For me, parenting was so so enjoyable for me. I was able to stay home and "mom" our boys 24/7 until our youngest was 12 or so. The sacrifices we made to provide a loving Christian environment were valued by us and we were happy to do so for all those years. I even hated sending my kiddos to school every September to be taught by someone I did not really know. Perhaps I am not the norm in this. One of my friends was the same way raising her kids.
But you and your husband will find your own way to do this life work for the Lord and for the sake of your children. I pray that you can set this disagreeing on this topic aside.
I wish to continue here as I ran out of room on my first post.
Asking your husband to refrain from beating you up with his Calvinism and instead trust the Holy Spirit to help you to understand the topic better. Also, you can let him know you are willing to talk about what you are thinking about what you learn when YOU are willing to converse about it using your Bible and notes you have compiled with your "AHA's" and questions. Ask him to treat your opinions with respect and to also give you credit for having a good mind that the Spirit is sanctifying to become the mind of Christ just like he has. And tell him that you commit to doing likewise to him. These remarks spoken in a calm way with sincerity and honesty may open doors to better communication.
And lastly, ask him to study your theological approach for himself so as to gain understanding of why you believe as you do. In this way, you both will be honoring one another's thinking processes under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and also each will grow in your openness to another's viewpoint that you at the present disagree on. I cannot say what you both will eventually embrace as a theological mindset based on the Scriptures but I do know that the Holy Spirit will increase your harmony as
a couple and will bring to your relationship movement towards consensus on doctrines that truly matter as believers.
I will be praying for you, your husband and your baby. Do not chock up your high emotions in this matter to being pregnant. That is a cop-out that too many use to excuse behaviors that really should be tempered by the Holy Spirit. But I do understand your concern for your baby. Just know that the things you disagree on in this situation do not need to be "solved" right away or even before your baby is born, or for quite some time when your baby is very young. What need to be solved over time is how each of you react to one another that leads to screaming, hurt feelings, and anger.
My husband ad I have been married 45 years and both of our spiritual understanding of Scripture principles have grow and changed over the years. God is at work in each believer to bring them to correct knowledge of the truth of His Word. This also is in store for you and your husband as you continue to love, honor, ad submit to one another as you walk as one in the Lord and agree together to live a life of obedience to God and His Word both individually and as a couple who has been united in marriage.
My suggestion to you is to pray for the Lord to give you a heart of submissiveness to your husband as he has been given to you to be your spiritual head. It is not always easy for us women to submit to our husband but we are instructed to do so in God's Word. However, this submission is a mutual affair. We are to submit to one another as the Lord leads and guides us by his Spirit.
So, neither you nor your husband are the ultimate "head" in your marriage, Jesus is.
When we disagree within our marriage we personally should pray for God to humble us, to give us a meekness that does not attack the other or their viewpoint, to have a teachable spirit, and to be driven to God's Word as the final authority.
I also would like to suggest that you begin to study Calvinistic theology from Calvinists. There are many sites that you can use to search what Calvinism truly teaches. Most people who oppose it strongly have not done this but just go on distorted perceptions of what this theological approach teaches. I suggest that you pray for a mindset that will set aside you strong points of disagreement and give this approach a truly fair chance to be resented to you. You may come to still disagree with it or you may be convinced on what Calvinism presets on some or many points.
As for your husband, instead of getting into a battle over this, you can inform him that you are going to study Calvinism for yourself and ask him to give you room and time to do so
Thank you for your response, I hope I can clarify some things for you. I didn't marry a Calvinist. I have been with my husband for almost 14 years, and this specific point of contention has been going on for about 6 years. It would completely not be a big deal to me if my husband did not make it such a mission to argue and debate me every single day on something we do not agree on. No where in my comment did I ever say I screamed at my husband and called him a tyrant, I said he is acting like one and his behavior is causing me stress that goes right to my child, it is the exact opposite of Christ like and what Men are commanded to do in the Word of GOD while handling the Word of GOD... Paul states to Timothy, not to be contentious, but rather he says as a nurse... Etc... And thank you for your view on women being pregnant but I can assure you that my emotions are not out of control... I am seeking BIBLICAL advice on how to move forward with an issue.
Like you, I do not believe Calvinism is true but I don't see it as such a big deal as you. You made it this far to marry and have kids- maybe you never discussed it before, proving that it already wasn't that important of an issue to you before. Many Christians have differing views on this and many are married and attend the same churches. Do you know if you disagree with all 5 pillars or just some? I think the 2 biggest are them believing they don't have freewill and not believing Jesus died for everyone like 1 John 2:2 says. You probably disagree with way more than just that if you actually read through the whole Bible together and line by line compared your interpretations. But why assume you have to agree on everything for a marriage to work? No two Christians will agree on everything and that's normal because we're all individuals. Why not instead focus on the main things you have in common? You're both Christians, believe in Jesus, and probably have more in common that you are realizing.
Maybe the real question is why are you choosing to have such a strong reaction to this of all things. You mention you're even worried for your family, but isn't your choice to view and react this way the real threat, instead of the viewpoints themselves? "extremely frustrated, devastated" are not normal reactions to just a difference of opinion. Did you really yell at your husband and call him a tyrant?! That's in violation of the Bible's teachings, probably marital vows to him, and that's unacceptable for a wife to treat her husband that way. That's the only thing shocking about this. Women sometimes have amplified emotions while pregnant. What if the opinions of Calvinism are simply a distraction from the real attack from the enemy deceiving you into resenting and disrespecting your husband? Ephesians 5:23-33 God bless you.
There are few on either camp when it comes to Arminianism and Calvanism who disagree on certain fundamental issues; namely that some scripture indicates God's predestined plan for many things. If indeed that was being argued against I can understand the frustration.
The first major problem here is whenever a doctrine comes up like this is when it overshadows the basic Gospel truths common to all parties concerned; namely that Christ died on Calvary to bring atonement to all who would believe in His name.
The next issue is why he is so obsessed; is it something he is preaching of his own volition; or is he surrounded by those in church; fellowship or friends who align with this sort of militant campaign in that direction? It would help to understand in order to pray for your situation.
You shall know them by their fruits. This should indicate love; joy; peace; longsuffering; etc. and should follow the guidelines of 1 Cor. 13. This is something you may be able to seek on your own. Of course a child is innocent; even if we argue about being born in sin; I look at Psalm 8:2 and other verses that show that God saves them out of grace much as He does for others above the age of accountability. Having angels beholding the face of God is something that we need to consider carefully; as well as the sanctity of the marriage covenant. Thus; I would advise that you tell him you are praying for these issues and see what happens. I hope it isn't the case but he may use things as excuses to disrupt the marriage with the stress of childbirth.
I'll Pray.
I was in a rather hypercalvanist group for a while when I was still in Pittsburgh. It was a home church; which if you were in the area you'd probably recognize as they were very faithful in regular evangelism and taking trips to other cities on occasion. I have seen anger issues over the subject and again; that fits into my statement where people place election and predestination as something idolized and elevated above the overall context of scripture.
I have a suspicion but this may just be my own experience in the past; but there is a tendancy to have a Post Millenial point of view in this situation. It was on my mind today as there is in general a "religious" spirit that allows for certain obsessive mindsets to develop.
If I have to surrender my own convictions on the subject to maintain communication here; that is your call; I pretty much believe in the concepts in scripture of Predestination and the five points. Proper context as to what something actually means is important and I would also say that I don't think God has a problem with people having the ability to make choices or "free will" within certain parameters. Of course we don't know all the secret counsels of God ( Deut. 29:29) a good verse to remember.
In short for me it gives me assurance with those I and others have tried to reach that God knows at least who comes to Him and who doesn't. In no way should that stop prayer or evangelism.
I will pray you find some local fellowship. Discussion among other men can be helpful; also check out other home Bible studies.
Hope I haven't said too much and hope to continue to hear from you.
Agape; Rich P
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