In terms of the left giving aide for African Americans in a large part it brought dependency and as far as helping them with unwanted pregnancies; the truly Satanic agenda of Margaret Sanger is seen in this; one of many quotes (A to Z quotes)
The masses of N...particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disasterously, with the result that the increase among N..., even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit.
Obviously I had to leave the one word out but you get the picture; many here are already aware how this whole abortion mill got started.
Case example #2 War
Humanism had anti war and establishment movements in the spirit of the age as popularized in much folk music at the time.
This would later extend to other venues but listening to things from that era you can sense the general spirit of the time.
Again; our history brings out many justifiable as well as reprehensible actions; and today for now we don't have the draft forcing people to fight against their will at times. Ignoring the evils of atheistic communism which apparently caused more deaths than those of religious persuasion of any sort in the last century or two should be sobering reminder that avoiding conflict at any cost can have bad consequences.
Case example #3 Free love The trashing of traditional family values was initiated; more or less by a move against hypocritial authority represented by the previous genration and perpetuated by the individual's own situation and agenda. Again; there are valid points here; but this rebellion and freedom to love anyway we wanted moved from general fornication to that of the alternative lifestyles; shall we say of same sex relationships to now what is defined in innumerable ways; all of which are profane in God's eyes.
Case example #4 Humanism's biggest element snuck in once we got to the influence of the Beatles in particular with Eastern
And by the turn of the century, it became very difficult for most couples to survive on one income as was common prior to 1960. In those times, a single income could provide a comfortable middle class life. But, now, that is not very possible.
We, as a society have made our lives much more difficult financially as a result of this history. In the 70's - 90's the propaganda of "overpopulation" was pervasive and most couples had only a few children, with one or two being the "ideal". Now it is difficult for couples with both people working to afford having children.
This mindset is truly a form of insidious annihilation, just what Satan wants!
Therefore, it is important for us to heed Scripture, adopting the mindset for marriage and family life taught there and not from the world. Yet, young couples who wish to do so are caught between a rock and a hard place due to the road taken in our society back in Sanger's day and through the decades that followed. It is sad that so many family relationships are slowly being eliminated with couple not having children, or having only one or two. This trend results in eliminating relationships such as: having a brother and/or sister or even a sibling relationship at all; the elimination of children today having more than a few aunts/uncles, cousins or none. This is not God's design for family.
The revolution in values, sexual practices, drug use, and refection of authority that occurred with the 60's and 70's and onward has been so destructive to nations that God had blessed and prospered because they as a whole were of a Christian mindset. This departure from such a societal mindset swung open the door to outright paganism, humanism, and the secularization of society. We have much to repent of before God for how we have contributed do this whole modern u-turn from God and His holy ways and Word.
As believers, we need to keep praying for our society, communities, families, and those we know reject God.
THeres a few things I could say here but I'll let you enjoy your rant.
Not that I could say much you don't already know you are much older and wiser than me (that didn't go too well either)
Better leave while I'm ahead.
Seems strange coming from me but I am actually hopeful in some ways on this subject; I suppose I mentioned a couple things.
You understand I am not being glib about immorality but saying a child can still be a blessing. It brings some people together who finally decide to get married; others not although they still can be good parents.
Guess it is nice you have your family and such to continue God's work of bearing children and being fruitful. If I knew you I'd bring some young folk to hear your wisdom but I guess since you're clear across the country and anonymous that ain't happening.
Ok have a blessed night (guess it's still light out there)
I appreciate you comments. Please know this is not a rant, and that verbiage characterizing what I am sharing is offensive to me. But I am not taking this too personally. Perhaps you said it in jest.
We all have differing views on many matters and this forum allows us to either start a thread to discuss a specific topic or respond to an aspect of what someone else posted in a thread they began.
Please know that I have said all I feel led to say on this topic. I hope it is food for thought for some, but not applicable to all directly.
At times it is wise to step back and consider the ways our ungodly culture has crept in upon our thinking and way of life in hope of becoming more committed to being a follower of God and His ways in godliness. Growing in attaining the mind of Christ in all things is a lifelong process. We do not arrive in glory completely righteous. That is for the next life after our resurrection.
We are not that far apart in age. I think 8 or 9 years is the span. So we grew up through many of the same cultural experiences, changes, and influences as each other. As a youngster, I had no interest in the "hippie" mindset. I was revulsed by the drug use of my peers and of those in the entertainment industry. I recognized the perverseness of the inundation of eastern paganism and influx of ideas foreign to God's ways as taught in Scripture. I did not rebel against authority, government, or my parents as so many did. As I said before, not perfect, but I believe God kept me from so much that could lead to so much personal harm to me and offense towards Him. In that I am humbly grateful, for I was not always the best example to others of what a Christian should act like.
My 50th class reunion is coming up this month. I will go, mostly because at past reunions some people have come up to me and said how glad they are to see me because I was one person they hoped to see at the reunion. so I make myself available for those people.
I'm glad someone is reading this. In that issue the difference in what used to be devices that stopped impregnation then things that killed the "fetus" after conception does represent two different levels of wrong I would say. Now in the case of someone whose health would be effected by pregnancy ideally someone could have an operation (either the man or woman) to eliminate it.
So we may disagree in the case of stopping life as opposted to killing it; but I suppose that is another factor here not considered.
I will bring out also that it is actually better today in the sense that some single moms probably more than in the past will keep their baby rather than aborting or giving it away. The stigma also of biracial kids has in many ways reduced so again; something has improved as I see it.
All of this; of course goes to trusting God. Surely there should have been incentive for married people to have financial help as were the single moms in the same situation. But again the church I think fumbled the ball in subject to the self righteous who looked at the sin of ffornication and the disgrace due to pride rather than focusing on something God created in the process; a human soul. In some way even those who are purposeley invading our country from Islam state that since we won't have the kids they will if just to dominate in numbers.
Anyway; today I got the orders to avoid all the trigger foods for IBS which indeed it appears I have had for a long time. It won't be easy but worth it surely; although I guess that condition more women are supposed to have. PRobably all those antibiotics from younger years had some affect I would guess. Waiting to hopefully hear in the next week that electic is on in my retreat cabin so I can go check things out. Have been on the fence; if I think things are hopeful I will continue here as primary residence.
Again since you are one of the people reading my stuff who comments I will be open to suggestions or criticism
I wonder why would one want to actively artificially stop a life from being conceived if it is God who gives life and a woman her cycle that is specifically designed to conceive? Why would one want to act against the way God created a woman who, together, with her husband, are blessed to participate with God in bringing about this new conception through sharing a loving embrace that if not artificially altered would remain open and receptive to the bestowing of new life within God's good will? I have had to wrestle with these questions when I was a teen which led me to embrace fully how God created my body and marriage without trying to prevent Him from causing conception to occur. I understand that people are in all different kinds of situations where it seems best to not become pregnant. Some reasons are really serious and others, not so much, but more a matter of convenience or selfishness. But God has given us in marriage to decide to embrace or not prayerfully.
I know that this sounds quite old-fashioned, and it is. And I know that most people do not take these questions to God in prayer. I think it is important to desire and submit to God being God of all of us in all areas of our life, body, and choices, and actions.
Can any of us do so 100%? No of course, but we should really think about taking steps and actions that are designed to keep God from doing what He would normally do according to how He designed our body, its functions, and marital fulfillment.
Please know that my reason for discussing this is not to begin an argument or to lay any accusation upon anyone. My reason is that it fits with what you posted and that the view I express is not one that is commonly held among believers nor expressed in open forums. I think it is worth speaking it forth and leaving it up to each reader in how or if they will give it any consideration whatso ever.
I put my hand on my belly and very deeply realized that I would never, unless God gave me a miracle pregnancy, be thrilled to know I was pregnant, to feel the baby move within me, to birth a beautiful baby, nourish a baby at the breast or go through all the wonders of infancy-adulthood with another child.
Perhaps not many see things the way I do. I am pretty aware of having a minority view on this subject from when I was first married, even among believers. But I am glad that I never embrace artificial birth control.
That being said. I think that this topic is so "everyday" in our society that very few really give it much thought about its morality or whether it honors God or not. I shared this in hopes that some would be led to take this choice to the Lord for their marriage and seek His truth and guidance. That is what I did in my teens. Being surrounded by the pro-birth control people of my generation, I did seek the Lord in prayer and in learning how methods worked in regards to supporting conceived life or not, and in honoring the way God created in women the fertility cycle that prepared her body each cycle to become pregnant, receive a newly conceived child into the uterine lining, sustain the baby throughout the pregnancy, and give birth to a new baby that God created and blessed the mother and father with.
I was different from most people my age at the time. I was not easily sway by the prevailing mindset of my peers. I was really decisive about what I would do in most things, but especially for my future as a wife and mother. What God would have me think and do was really foremost in my mind to a great degree and so I resisted the many moral pitfalls that most young people chose to engage in in my youth. I was not perfect, of course, and have many things that I needed to confess and be forgiven of as well as do an about-face. But I am thankful for the nearness of God and His wise counsel to me.
I have known since the 70's that the IUD stops a newly created life from implanting in the uterus (a form of abortion). It causes the lining to be constantly irritated and inhospitable to the reception of a new life. Thus it is one of the most effective non-reversible forms of birth control. Also I have known since then that the birth control pill does not always prevent ovulation (the high dose of estrogen pills of the 60's) but the low-dose, mostly progestin only pill since then does little to prevent ovulation, instead it doesn't allow the uterine lining to properly build up in cycles to be receptive to a newly conceived life, thus being more of a form of abortion than prevention of conception. The abortions from the IUD and birth control pill are silent in that the user never really knows when one occurs. But I would estimate that it happens fairly often in women who have sexual relations in every cycle. Any cycle could end up with conception in such a case, but the pregnancy is aborted by these forms of birth control before the woman knows she is pregnant because she does not miss her menses.
The information on these methods have been out since I was a young adult, but are not openly talked about by may people. Most people do not go looking for this information because they want to use these birth control methods without guilt.
I agree with you that at times, sterilization is appropriate if the life or health of the mother or any baby conceived would be at great risk. That was my case. The risk was to any baby I would conceive (this was after my 3rd baby. I discovered at 29 weeks of this great risk. He was born healthy, but the risk remained to a high percentage to any future babies) for the remainder of my fertile years. With months of prayer and sadness, we followed the lead of the Holy Spirit with a tubal ligation. It was one of the worst days of my life as I come out of surgery and awakened, putting my hand on my belly--oops need more space
What you have quoted from Margaret Sanger, who adhered to the eugenics of the time, are true of her. She believed that white affluent people should have many children and that those who were "undesirable", the poor, immigrants, non-whites, should have less children in order to not just reduce their population but to eliminate their progeny and future generations. She was for sterilizing such people against their will, worked at distributing birth control and abortion in neighborhoods where these "undesirable" people lived. This is why so many abortion clinics are located in predominantly black communities.
She was for the elimination of such people. So, rather than being a "pioneer" of birth control and the freeing of couples from undesired pregnancies, she was quite evil minded.
I've known this about her and Planned Parenthood since my young adulthood (in the late 70's), being pro-life as a teen during the Row vs. Wade era in the early 70's.
The 60's and 70's, where we witnessed the radical changes to sexual, cultural, and marital mores, truly resulted from the embracing of population control of her day and the decades that followed where churches began deeming birth control acceptable for Christian couples. The rebellion of the 60's and 70's did not happen out of thin air. When our parents (the adults of the 30's-60's embraced limiting their family size to approximately half of what it would normally have been (4-5 children was very normal in these decades), women were able to enter the job market when their youngest was in school, which led to two income family wealth and the feminist push for women to seek careers outside of the home, denigrating motherhood, taking care of the family household. This led in just a few generations, to the eventual rise in cost of all things needed: housing, food, goods, etc. and by the time my children were growing up in the 80's and 90's it was more common for mothers to be employed than to stay home. Pt. 2
In terms of the left giving aide for African Americans in a large part it brought dependency and as far as helping them with unwanted pregnancies; the truly Satanic agenda of Margaret Sanger is seen in this; one of many quotes (A to Z quotes)
The masses of N...particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disasterously, with the result that the increase among N..., even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit.
Obviously I had to leave the one word out but you get the picture; many here are already aware how this whole abortion mill got started.
Case example #2 War
Humanism had anti war and establishment movements in the spirit of the age as popularized in much folk music at the time.
This would later extend to other venues but listening to things from that era you can sense the general spirit of the time.
Again; our history brings out many justifiable as well as reprehensible actions; and today for now we don't have the draft forcing people to fight against their will at times. Ignoring the evils of atheistic communism which apparently caused more deaths than those of religious persuasion of any sort in the last century or two should be sobering reminder that avoiding conflict at any cost can have bad consequences.
Case example #3 Free love The trashing of traditional family values was initiated; more or less by a move against hypocritial authority represented by the previous genration and perpetuated by the individual's own situation and agenda. Again; there are valid points here; but this rebellion and freedom to love anyway we wanted moved from general fornication to that of the alternative lifestyles; shall we say of same sex relationships to now what is defined in innumerable ways; all of which are profane in God's eyes.
Case example #4 Humanism's biggest element snuck in once we got to the influence of the Beatles in particular with Eastern
Religions.
Pt. 2
And by the turn of the century, it became very difficult for most couples to survive on one income as was common prior to 1960. In those times, a single income could provide a comfortable middle class life. But, now, that is not very possible.
We, as a society have made our lives much more difficult financially as a result of this history. In the 70's - 90's the propaganda of "overpopulation" was pervasive and most couples had only a few children, with one or two being the "ideal". Now it is difficult for couples with both people working to afford having children.
This mindset is truly a form of insidious annihilation, just what Satan wants!
Therefore, it is important for us to heed Scripture, adopting the mindset for marriage and family life taught there and not from the world. Yet, young couples who wish to do so are caught between a rock and a hard place due to the road taken in our society back in Sanger's day and through the decades that followed. It is sad that so many family relationships are slowly being eliminated with couple not having children, or having only one or two. This trend results in eliminating relationships such as: having a brother and/or sister or even a sibling relationship at all; the elimination of children today having more than a few aunts/uncles, cousins or none. This is not God's design for family.
The revolution in values, sexual practices, drug use, and refection of authority that occurred with the 60's and 70's and onward has been so destructive to nations that God had blessed and prospered because they as a whole were of a Christian mindset. This departure from such a societal mindset swung open the door to outright paganism, humanism, and the secularization of society. We have much to repent of before God for how we have contributed do this whole modern u-turn from God and His holy ways and Word.
As believers, we need to keep praying for our society, communities, families, and those we know reject God.
Not that I could say much you don't already know you are much older and wiser than me (that didn't go too well either)
Better leave while I'm ahead.
Seems strange coming from me but I am actually hopeful in some ways on this subject; I suppose I mentioned a couple things.
You understand I am not being glib about immorality but saying a child can still be a blessing. It brings some people together who finally decide to get married; others not although they still can be good parents.
Guess it is nice you have your family and such to continue God's work of bearing children and being fruitful. If I knew you I'd bring some young folk to hear your wisdom but I guess since you're clear across the country and anonymous that ain't happening.
Ok have a blessed night (guess it's still light out there)
Rich P
I appreciate you comments. Please know this is not a rant, and that verbiage characterizing what I am sharing is offensive to me. But I am not taking this too personally. Perhaps you said it in jest.
We all have differing views on many matters and this forum allows us to either start a thread to discuss a specific topic or respond to an aspect of what someone else posted in a thread they began.
Please know that I have said all I feel led to say on this topic. I hope it is food for thought for some, but not applicable to all directly.
At times it is wise to step back and consider the ways our ungodly culture has crept in upon our thinking and way of life in hope of becoming more committed to being a follower of God and His ways in godliness. Growing in attaining the mind of Christ in all things is a lifelong process. We do not arrive in glory completely righteous. That is for the next life after our resurrection.
We are not that far apart in age. I think 8 or 9 years is the span. So we grew up through many of the same cultural experiences, changes, and influences as each other. As a youngster, I had no interest in the "hippie" mindset. I was revulsed by the drug use of my peers and of those in the entertainment industry. I recognized the perverseness of the inundation of eastern paganism and influx of ideas foreign to God's ways as taught in Scripture. I did not rebel against authority, government, or my parents as so many did. As I said before, not perfect, but I believe God kept me from so much that could lead to so much personal harm to me and offense towards Him. In that I am humbly grateful, for I was not always the best example to others of what a Christian should act like.
My 50th class reunion is coming up this month. I will go, mostly because at past reunions some people have come up to me and said how glad they are to see me because I was one person they hoped to see at the reunion. so I make myself available for those people.
God bless,
RLW
So we may disagree in the case of stopping life as opposted to killing it; but I suppose that is another factor here not considered.
I will bring out also that it is actually better today in the sense that some single moms probably more than in the past will keep their baby rather than aborting or giving it away. The stigma also of biracial kids has in many ways reduced so again; something has improved as I see it.
All of this; of course goes to trusting God. Surely there should have been incentive for married people to have financial help as were the single moms in the same situation. But again the church I think fumbled the ball in subject to the self righteous who looked at the sin of ffornication and the disgrace due to pride rather than focusing on something God created in the process; a human soul. In some way even those who are purposeley invading our country from Islam state that since we won't have the kids they will if just to dominate in numbers.
Anyway; today I got the orders to avoid all the trigger foods for IBS which indeed it appears I have had for a long time. It won't be easy but worth it surely; although I guess that condition more women are supposed to have. PRobably all those antibiotics from younger years had some affect I would guess. Waiting to hopefully hear in the next week that electic is on in my retreat cabin so I can go check things out. Have been on the fence; if I think things are hopeful I will continue here as primary residence.
Again since you are one of the people reading my stuff who comments I will be open to suggestions or criticism
One more thought-
I wonder why would one want to actively artificially stop a life from being conceived if it is God who gives life and a woman her cycle that is specifically designed to conceive? Why would one want to act against the way God created a woman who, together, with her husband, are blessed to participate with God in bringing about this new conception through sharing a loving embrace that if not artificially altered would remain open and receptive to the bestowing of new life within God's good will? I have had to wrestle with these questions when I was a teen which led me to embrace fully how God created my body and marriage without trying to prevent Him from causing conception to occur. I understand that people are in all different kinds of situations where it seems best to not become pregnant. Some reasons are really serious and others, not so much, but more a matter of convenience or selfishness. But God has given us in marriage to decide to embrace or not prayerfully.
I know that this sounds quite old-fashioned, and it is. And I know that most people do not take these questions to God in prayer. I think it is important to desire and submit to God being God of all of us in all areas of our life, body, and choices, and actions.
Can any of us do so 100%? No of course, but we should really think about taking steps and actions that are designed to keep God from doing what He would normally do according to how He designed our body, its functions, and marital fulfillment.
Please know that my reason for discussing this is not to begin an argument or to lay any accusation upon anyone. My reason is that it fits with what you posted and that the view I express is not one that is commonly held among believers nor expressed in open forums. I think it is worth speaking it forth and leaving it up to each reader in how or if they will give it any consideration whatso ever.
Peace, my brother.
As I was saying...
I put my hand on my belly and very deeply realized that I would never, unless God gave me a miracle pregnancy, be thrilled to know I was pregnant, to feel the baby move within me, to birth a beautiful baby, nourish a baby at the breast or go through all the wonders of infancy-adulthood with another child.
Perhaps not many see things the way I do. I am pretty aware of having a minority view on this subject from when I was first married, even among believers. But I am glad that I never embrace artificial birth control.
That being said. I think that this topic is so "everyday" in our society that very few really give it much thought about its morality or whether it honors God or not. I shared this in hopes that some would be led to take this choice to the Lord for their marriage and seek His truth and guidance. That is what I did in my teens. Being surrounded by the pro-birth control people of my generation, I did seek the Lord in prayer and in learning how methods worked in regards to supporting conceived life or not, and in honoring the way God created in women the fertility cycle that prepared her body each cycle to become pregnant, receive a newly conceived child into the uterine lining, sustain the baby throughout the pregnancy, and give birth to a new baby that God created and blessed the mother and father with.
I was different from most people my age at the time. I was not easily sway by the prevailing mindset of my peers. I was really decisive about what I would do in most things, but especially for my future as a wife and mother. What God would have me think and do was really foremost in my mind to a great degree and so I resisted the many moral pitfalls that most young people chose to engage in in my youth. I was not perfect, of course, and have many things that I needed to confess and be forgiven of as well as do an about-face. But I am thankful for the nearness of God and His wise counsel to me.
God helps us all.
I have known since the 70's that the IUD stops a newly created life from implanting in the uterus (a form of abortion). It causes the lining to be constantly irritated and inhospitable to the reception of a new life. Thus it is one of the most effective non-reversible forms of birth control. Also I have known since then that the birth control pill does not always prevent ovulation (the high dose of estrogen pills of the 60's) but the low-dose, mostly progestin only pill since then does little to prevent ovulation, instead it doesn't allow the uterine lining to properly build up in cycles to be receptive to a newly conceived life, thus being more of a form of abortion than prevention of conception. The abortions from the IUD and birth control pill are silent in that the user never really knows when one occurs. But I would estimate that it happens fairly often in women who have sexual relations in every cycle. Any cycle could end up with conception in such a case, but the pregnancy is aborted by these forms of birth control before the woman knows she is pregnant because she does not miss her menses.
The information on these methods have been out since I was a young adult, but are not openly talked about by may people. Most people do not go looking for this information because they want to use these birth control methods without guilt.
I agree with you that at times, sterilization is appropriate if the life or health of the mother or any baby conceived would be at great risk. That was my case. The risk was to any baby I would conceive (this was after my 3rd baby. I discovered at 29 weeks of this great risk. He was born healthy, but the risk remained to a high percentage to any future babies) for the remainder of my fertile years. With months of prayer and sadness, we followed the lead of the Holy Spirit with a tubal ligation. It was one of the worst days of my life as I come out of surgery and awakened, putting my hand on my belly--oops need more space
What you have quoted from Margaret Sanger, who adhered to the eugenics of the time, are true of her. She believed that white affluent people should have many children and that those who were "undesirable", the poor, immigrants, non-whites, should have less children in order to not just reduce their population but to eliminate their progeny and future generations. She was for sterilizing such people against their will, worked at distributing birth control and abortion in neighborhoods where these "undesirable" people lived. This is why so many abortion clinics are located in predominantly black communities.
She was for the elimination of such people. So, rather than being a "pioneer" of birth control and the freeing of couples from undesired pregnancies, she was quite evil minded.
I've known this about her and Planned Parenthood since my young adulthood (in the late 70's), being pro-life as a teen during the Row vs. Wade era in the early 70's.
The 60's and 70's, where we witnessed the radical changes to sexual, cultural, and marital mores, truly resulted from the embracing of population control of her day and the decades that followed where churches began deeming birth control acceptable for Christian couples. The rebellion of the 60's and 70's did not happen out of thin air. When our parents (the adults of the 30's-60's embraced limiting their family size to approximately half of what it would normally have been (4-5 children was very normal in these decades), women were able to enter the job market when their youngest was in school, which led to two income family wealth and the feminist push for women to seek careers outside of the home, denigrating motherhood, taking care of the family household. This led in just a few generations, to the eventual rise in cost of all things needed: housing, food, goods, etc. and by the time my children were growing up in the 80's and 90's it was more common for mothers to be employed than to stay home. Pt. 2
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